Support NeoGAF

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

I think Bernie has an increasingly likely shot of winning in 2016, especially because one of the latest polls shows him decimating trump, the likely repub nominee by 13 points. I know the republicans have been attacking mostly Clinton so this isn't too much of a surprise but still, it must mean something good.

Also, he is close/leading in NH against clinton, and is trailing by around 10 points in Iowa. Bernie recently said that if he can win in both those states, then that overcomes the obstacle of when people say that they like what Bernie stands for, but don't think that he can win.

In the general, I could see the republicans developing a sort of label on Bernie for his democratic socialism ideas, but I can also see a situation in which voters in both the primary against Clinton and general against Trump choose Bernie because of his apparent honesty and genuine concern to try to change the way money works in politics. Also, Bernie has stayed true to his guns and did not vote for the Iraq War. Seems like Trump can attack Bernie with a really big attack against socialism in contrast to Hillary with dozens of smaller attacks that he will target to things from her long career. It is very interesting stuff, and I am very excited, especially because this election impacts me tremendously due to possibility of a republican repealing the DACA executive order signed by Obama in 2012.

What are your thoughts GAF?

 

[Heroman]

No he cant.

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

I wish he would.

 

[proshaw713]

if he had another year

 

[Amir0x]

He can win, but he has a smaller percentage chance of winning than the alternative. The question to ask then is whether we want to take that risk given that he won't be able to pass a single of his Democratic Socialist ideals through Congress, so we'd essentially be voting for Supreme Court Nominations. Not one Bernie supporter has ever developed a gameplan to get a single progressive bill passed through Congress. Because it's essentially impossible.

 

[Gun Animal]

No he cant.

incredible

 

[Chariot]

I believe he can. It's neither easy nor a given, but he can.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Wait till South Carolina. Where many dreams have gone to die.

 

[Masquerader]

It's not impossible, but not likely. So long as people actually vote (or do some research if they're on the fence to any candidate), he'll have a chance. So actually do so, America, because no matter what your political alignment, the candidate on the other end is a pure disaster waiting to occur.

 

[Dude Abides]

He might be able to win the general, but he's not winning the primary with his current level of support among black and Latino voters.

 

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

He can win, but he has a smaller percentage chance of winning than the alternative. The question to ask then is whether we want to take that risk given that he won't be able to pass a single of his Democratic Socialist ideals through Congress, so we'd essentially be voting for Supreme Court Nominations.

Yep, I do agree that he would not be able to pass much if any at all of his ideals; however, I think that the existence of his presidency would be important because it establishes his ideas as something that is supportable. Basically, I think it moves the country forward in that direction, because someone of his nature becoming president is a big deal.

 

[Betty]

He won't though.

In a debate against Trump he'd be crushed and be made to look 'low energy' (ugh), at least Clinton has proven she can stand the heat.

 

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

He won't though.

In a debate against Trump he'd be crushed and be made to look 'low energy' (ugh), at least Clinton has proven she can stand the heat.

I disagree. He has a lot of enthusiasm when he speaks, but I think I see what you're trying to say. Maybe Trump will make it seem like he is low energy. Hmm, idk, Bernie seems tough.

 

[Amir0x]

Yep, I do agree that he would not be able to pass much if any at all of his ideals; however, I think that the existence of his presidency would be important because it establishes his ideas as something that is supportable. Basically, I think it moves the country forward in that direction, because someone of his nature becoming president is a big deal.

so for the sake of a conversation we should roll a dice with a smaller chance of victory?

Not sure that's worth it honestly.

 

[Phobophile]

I disagree. He has a lot of enthusiasm when he speaks, but I think I see what you're trying to say. Maybe Trump will make it seem like he is low energy. Hmm, idk, Bernie seems tough.

Unfortunately for Bernie, his enthusiasm makes him come off as an angry, old white guy. That's not garnering him brownie points.

 

[Chariot]

He won't though.

In a debate against Trump he'd be crushed and be made to look 'low energy' (ugh), at least Clinton has proven she can stand the heat.

I don't think he would lose against Trump, at the very least thanks to people who primarily vote against Trump and necessarily for Bernie. He would win against all of the really weird republicans. I would worry if there were a relatively moderate Republican on top. But there isn't. As people said. His biggest problem isn't general, but to get there when the behemoth that is Hillary Clinton is in the way.

Also: low energy? One common complaint is how loudly and energetic he is usually speaking.

 

[-COOLIO-]

He absolutely could.

 

[Abounder]

Odds are stacked against Bernie for the primary but he'd win the general election especially vs Trump. Breaking up big banks, fighting global warming, being anti-billionaire, anti-war, etc. makes him almost too good to be president unfortunately

 

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

so for the sake of a conversation we should roll a dice with a smaller chance of victory?

Not sure that's worth it honestly.

I see. I definitely want a democratic candidate to win in 2016, whoever that may be. I just thought that Bernie may actually have a better chance than Clinton against Trump, that's all. I base this statement off the trust issues people have with Clinton and the honesty of Bernie.

 

[obin_gam]

Odds are stacked against Bernie for the primary but he'd win the general election especially vs Trump. Breaking up big banks, fighting global warming, being anti-billionaire, anti-war, etc. makes him almost too good to be president unfortunately

You think?
I'm not so sure... would a Socialist win against a Racist? Both are equally bad according to the american public.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

so for the sake of a conversation we should roll a dice with a smaller chance of victory?

Not sure that's worth it honestly.

The majority of the polling evidence we have so far that isn't from PPP suggests that Sanders typically fares better in general elections match-ups than Clinton. To suggest that Clinton would actually do better, you need to provide an argument for why we would expect people's opinions about either Sanders or the respective Republican candidate to change dramatically - emphasis on the dramatically - and why Clinton's would not in comparison.

There are only two things I've ever seen anyone posing Clinton as more successful post is firstly that Sanders calls himself a socialist and people say they wouldn't vote for a socialist, and secondly that Sanders hasn't been the subject of the same degree of attacks as Clinton. The first of these is *already* accounted for. It's not news, it's olds. Anyone with any awareness of Sanders knows he self-describes as a socialist, and yet his general election match-ups are positive - so it's clearly not having the impact you say it would.

The second is that Sanders wouldn't be able to cope with GoP attack ads. Well, firstly, given Clinton's favourability among Americans as a whole went from +20 at the start of the year to -10 now while Sanders' have only risen, clearly Clinton isn't very adroit at dealing with that sort of thing either. Secondly, it's pretty difficult to attack someone who has drawn the kind of cross-partisan respect Sanders has. I mean, there's a long piece in an interview of Inhofe where he praises Sanders' dedication and abilities. That's Inhofe, a.k.a. snowball guy. That's not mention the stuff from McCain and the relative prominence of RepublicansForBernie. It is highly unlikely that attack ads would even get the kind of purchase on Sanders they have done, successfully, on Clinton to begin with.

Sanders is the more electable candidate in the general. As a result, that means better performances on the downticket, which means more Democratic policies; not to mention a better chance of taking the supreme court.

EDIT: I mean, Clinton would literally have the second lowest favorability ratings among the American public as a whole of any presidential candidate of the modern era, after Mitt "binders full of women" Romney.

 

[afternoon delight]

He was done after the SNL skit, Bernie can't even rebound from Larry David's fictional portrayal of him, let alone the "confessed socialist" tag.

 

[Polari]

No chance.

 

[Maxim726X]

You think?
I'm not so sure... would a Socialist win against a Racist? Both are equally bad according to the american public.

And there en lies the problem.

One of the reasons he's looked so good is because the Republican party isn't even wasting time on attack ads. He's not worth their effort.

If he's ever the candidate, he'd be torn to shreds for being a 'socialist', which apparently is the most unfavorable thing you can be to the American public.

 

[afternoon delight]

If he's ever the candidate, he'd be torn to shreds for being a 'socialist', which apparently is the most unfavorable thing you can be to the American public.

Boy do you know how many of our soldiers died fighting the Red threat? Too many that's how many.

 

[yongeandcollege]

I'd install Trump as the favorite in a Sandders v Trump debate.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Absolutely not in either case.

The only delusion that I see is thinking that a 74 year old socialist is going to have a snowball chance of winning the nomination and then surviving the onslaught of a $2 billion dollar Republican fall smear campaign

 

[Hard]

I think he can win, but a potential Bernie presidency is not worth the risk of a Trump presidency.

 

[Incognito]

Come on, man.

 

[Makai]

if he had another year

Nah. One of Sanders' liabilities is his age and waiting another year would be detrimental.

 

[Amir0x]

The majority of the polling evidence we have so far that isn't from PPP suggests that Sanders typically fares better in general elections match-ups than Clinton. To suggest that Clinton would actually do better, you need to provide an argument for why we would expect people's opinions about either Sanders or the respective Republican candidate to change dramatically - emphasis on the dramatically - and why Clinton's would not in comparison.

There are only two things I've ever seen anyone posing Clinton as more successful post is firstly that Sanders calls himself a socialist and people say they wouldn't vote for a socialist, and secondly that Sanders hasn't been the subject of the same degree of attacks as Clinton. The first of these is *already* accounted for. It's not news, it's olds. Anyone with any awareness of Sanders knows he self-describes as a socialist, and yet his general election match-ups are positive - so it's clearly not having the impact you say it would.

The second is that Sanders wouldn't be able to cope with GoP attack ads. Well, firstly, given Clinton's favourability among Americans as a whole went from +20 at the start of the year to -10 now while Sanders' have only risen, clearly Clinton isn't very adroit at dealing with that sort of thing either. Secondly, it's pretty difficult to attack someone who has drawn the kind of cross-partisan respect Sanders has. I mean, there's a long piece in an interview of Inhofe where he praises Sanders' dedication and abilities. That's Inhofe, a.k.a. snowball guy. That's not mention the stuff from McCain and the relative prominence of RepublicansForBernie. It is highly unlikely that attack ads would even get the kind of purchase on Sanders they have done, successfully, on Clinton to begin with.

Sanders is the more electable candidate in the general. As a result, that means better performances on the downticket, which means more Democratic policies; not to mention a better chance of taking the supreme court.

EDIT: I mean, Clinton would literally have the second lowest favorability ratings among the American public as a whole of any presidential candidate of the modern era, after Mitt "binders full of women" Romney.

Bernie has no idea what it's like to take constant heat, and the few times he has it has been awkward at best. Hilary has been taking it for ages, there's plenty of polling data to suggest she'd do better than Bernie, and she has the establishment support.

I'm sorry, but the argument simply isn't very compelling for Bernie. Not taking such a risk for a conversation since he'd indisputably pass zero Democratic socialist ideas through Congress. Vote for who you like, and Bernie still has a chance of winning if her were nominated, but for me it just is not worth the risk for the end result of zero of his policies being passed.

 

[Chariot]

I think he can win, but a potential Bernie presidency is not worth the risk of a Trump presidency.

I don't think Bernie would lose to Trump of all people. Neither would Hillary btw. Trump is far too outrageous to the point where people don't even care much about who would be on the democratic site, lotta people would vote against Trump rather than for Hillary or Bernie, there would definitely a move of people to vote to prevent the dreaded.

 

[mugoldeneagle03]

Unfortunately if Bernie starts getting stronger the Republicans, no matter how much they've fucked themselves, will gain momentum.

There's a reason they are going after Hillary so hard. It's their only hope.

Which sucks as a Bernie supporter

 

[Future PhaZe]

He can win, but he has a smaller percentage chance of winning than the alternative. The question to ask then is whether we want to take that risk given that he won't be able to pass a single of his Democratic Socialist ideals through Congress, so we'd essentially be voting for Supreme Court Nominations. Not one Bernie supporter has ever developed a gameplan to get a single progressive bill passed through Congress. Because it's essentially impossible.

I'd argue its worth it to prevent potential disaster in regards to foreign policy with a Hillary administration though.

 

[Amir0x]

I'd argue its worth it to prevent potential disaster in regards to foreign policy with a Hillary administration though.

as if Hillary is going to start a war or something?

I'm not convinced that's a true scenario

 

[NIGHT-]

I wish, fucking can't stand Hilary

 

[Into]

Absolutely not. The current climate cannot get a candidate who comes across as so weak, he is pushed of his own stage. And then he confesses to being a socialist. Yikes.

There is a reason why so many candidates are instructed by their advisers to harp on how "tough" they are, its what people are responding to lately. Bernie is polar opposite of that.

 

[params7]

The only way Trump is winning against Hillary is by dragging both her and Bill down to his level in verbal punches and dirtying them up with their past scandals while somehow getting some of minorities on his side. Plus populism is in the air and Trump even has that on Hillary. He won't have that ammunition against Sanders who will appear to be the more mature populist on debate stage. Either ways we'll never know, unless Hillary crashes herself before the nomination which she is destined to get.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Bernie has no idea what it's like to take constant heat, and the few times he has it has been awkward at best. Hilary has been taking it for ages, there's plenty of polling data to suggest she'd do better than Bernie, and she has the establishment support.

I'm sorry, but the argument simply isn't very compelling for Bernie. Not taking such a risk for a conversation since he'd indisputably pass zero Democratic socialist ideas through Congress.

Okay, cite this polling data. Name one poll released in the past months not from PPP that shows Sanders doing significantly worse [that's polling significant, so outside the MoE] than Clinton in general election match-ups. Also, Clinton is literally terrible at taking heat. This is her favourability ratings over the course of 2015 - and we're not even out of the primaries! The Republicans are barely focusing on her over their squabbles with each other and yet perception of Clinton has nosedived. This is the sort of candidate you expect to do well in a presidential election?

Come on, it's the Sanders people bringing all the facts here; you're just repeating trite truisms that have actually turned out to be falsisms over the course of this cycle.

 

[teruterubozu]

as if Hillary is going to start a war or something?

Yup. She couldn't even protect Benghazi, amirite?

 

[RoKKeR]

I mean, extremely unlikely, but I admire your passion.

 

[Amir0x]

Okay, cite this polling data. Name one poll released in the past months not from PPP that shows Sanders doing significantly worse [that's polling significant, so outside the MoE] than Clinton in general election match-ups. Also, Clinton is literally terrible at taking heat. This is her favourability ratings over the course of 2015 - and we're not even out of the primaries! The Republicans are barely focusing on her over their squabbles with each other and yet perception of Clinton has nosedived. This is the sort of candidate you expect to do well in a presidential election?

Come on, it's the Sanders people bringing all the facts here; you're just repeating trite truisms that have actually turned out to be falsisms over the course of this cycle.

You just made up half this shit. Bernie ain't gonna be the nominee, so I don't have to worry in any event.

 

[travisbickle]

Honestly, the quotes I've seen posted on my Facebook from him make Jeremy Corbyn, UK's most dangerous politician, look pedestrian. Honestly, I would have to admit the British public have lurched further to the right than the US if Bernie gets elected

 

[Matt_]

You know what I think he could win 2016 general
buts it a moot point because he wont win the primary

 

[Abounder]

You think?
I'm not so sure... would a Socialist win against a Racist? Both are equally bad according to the american public.

Trump would only win if there's a terrorist attack or if the DNC completely shunned Bernie; otherwise Trump might as well be poison to women, minorities, Dems, and hopefully to moderate folk.

 

[Nuova]

Bernie doesnt have a chance. He'll, unfortunately never beat Hillary for the primary.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

You just made up half this shit. Bernie ain't gonna be the nominee, so I don't have to worry in any event.

Made up? I literally just cited all of the points I made with links to pollsters or Huffposts. Come on, this shit is not acceptable, what's the point of even pretending to have a conversation if you're just going to dodge like a motherfucker?

 

[fantomena]

Bernie>>>>Hillary>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Republican

Im actually not that interested in Bernie himself, but more in the grassroot he has been able to grow (he has had huge crows so far). Even if Bernie won't become POTUS Im very sure that his message and politics will have a lot of influence among people.

as if Hillary is going to start a war or something?

I'm not convinced that's a true scenario

I have doubts that Hillary will start a war, but I hope she won't support any wars either. The fact that she shupported the war in Iraq disgusts me.

 

[dehydratedbabies]

Yes, he can.

Want to help him win? Go to: https://go.berniesanders.com/page/content/phonebank

 

[quesalupa]

The feel like he can if everyone would stop saying he can't but I don't think that's gonna happen and so goes the circle of life.