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[ElectricThunder]

Cornel West is on the panel for Maher's season premiere on HBO tonight---gonna go ahead and give it strong odds that he, and Maher, will loudly broach the subject to give Sanders a shot.

Granted, the rest of the panel look atrocious---but it is something and rare enough that West ever seems to get on anyplace nowadays due to the above.

 

[Inuhanyou]

There was actually a pretty cool (and brief) conversation about Sanders and Clinton on the Breakfast Club a few days ago. Charlamagne said that he loves Bernie, but many black voters would rather vote for someone they're more familiar with. And obviously, a lot of people see him as unelectable.

And that's the problem. We know Bernie being unelectable is just a myth perpetuated by those who want to make it a self fulfilling prophecy. But on the substance of things, and even numerical data, Bernie clearly has a majority of support in this country.

This is what i am talking about. Hillary has name recognition and that's it. People will just skip over her absolutely horrible record just to vote for someone who they can point to and say "i've seen that person on the tee vee a lot'.

Well see you kind of took it in that direction when I didn't want to go there. I'm well aware the Shaun Kings, the Jessie Jacksons, etc. etc. aren't the kings of black folk and their endorsment doesn't mean a sweeping one for all of the black folk out there.

I was just curious if it was at least a small small sign that maybe he is starting to at least get the interest, if not the vote, of some of the black community. Again not lumping people together on this one, I was more just wondering as I know BLM has protested Bernie before and they have had serious issues with his campaigns coverage on things like police brutality and the like.

They did have an issue, but he's since made it a campaign issue, so they havent bothered him about it again.

I don't think many people are organized enough to tell their friends about what they've seen unless there is a concerted effort.

We can barely get over the idiots shouting "Bernie Sanders is a white supremacist" without any real basis on saying it to even get to an actual conversation on the merits

 

[ErasureAcer]

Bernie's Healthcare and Tax plan is coming out before Iowa.

 

[ZealousD]

And that's the problem. We know Bernie being unelectable is just a myth perpetuated by those who want to make it a self fulfilling prophecy.

In my case, it's a product of pragmaticism and cynicism.

"Too good to be true" kind of thinking. I wish candidates like Bernie were more mainstream in American politics. I really do. And I'll be damn sure to vote for him if he wins the nomination. But that doesn't mean I'm convinced his message will resonate in the general.

 

[Inuhanyou]

In my case, it's a product of pragmaticism and cynicism.

"Too good to be true" kind of thinking. I wish candidates like Bernie were more mainstream in American politics. I really do. And I'll be damn sure to vote for him if he wins the nomination. But that doesn't mean I'm convinced his message will resonate in the general.

His message WILL resonate. Because more than any small policy difference, his overall message reonates. Every person in this country needs medicare care, every person in this country has to worry about how they are going to get their educate. Most people in this country know the pain of worrying atleast once about how they are going to afford their livelihoods working a full time job with not enough coming in.

These are common issues that, actually poll far better spread out between liberals, independents and even republicans than any of the social stuff that gets caught in the trees.

 

[JesseEwiak]

His message WILL resonate. Because more than any small policy difference, his overall message reonates. Every person in this country needs medicare care, every person in this country has to worry about how they are going to get their educate. Most people in this country know the pain of worrying atleast once about how they are going to afford their livelihoods working a full time job with not enough coming in.

These are common issues that, actually poll far better spread out between liberals, independents and even republicans than any of the social stuff that gets caught in the trees.

I agree,. People need medical care, so we need to get the government out of the way between doctors and their patients. We need to end the government monopoly of education, so that poor minorities are no longer stuck in failing schools. We need to end the liberal War on Coal to use our natural resources, remove job killing regulations that kill small businesses, and reform entitlement programs so people are incentive to work.

When we do that, instead of the creeping socialism that Barack Obama has brought into this country and eliminate the debt and overtaxation that has plagued us for decades, we will truly jumpstart America.

See, this is what around half the country believes.

 

[ZealousD]

His message WILL resonate.

This is naive thinking. We haven't had a presidential candidate like Bernie before. His ability to withstand intense scrutiny from the entire Republican party is untested.

Don't let your idealism get in the way of understanding that we are sailing into uncharted waters here.

 

[Henchmen21]

This is naive thinking. We haven't had a presidential candidate like Bernie before. His ability to withstand intense scrutiny from the entire Republican party is untested.

Don't let your idealism get in the way of understanding that we are sailing into uncharted waters here.

Wrong on all counts.

1. Yes we have...FDR,Truman, and a host of others.

2. Except all those times he's ran against republicans (and democrats) before like during his mayoral race and others.

There is nothing uncharted here. It's just baseless fear.

edit: And there is nothing to say his message won't resonate in the general considering it's resonating right now with people on both parties.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Wrong on all counts.

1. Yes we have...FDR,Truman, and a host of others.

2. Except all those times he's ran against republicans (and democrats) before like during his mayoral race and others.

There is nothing uncharted here. It's just baseless fear.

edit: And there is nothing to say his message won't resonate in the general considering it's resonating right now with people on both parties.

You mean Franklin Delano "I'll pass Social Security, but basically exempt black people to get Southern votes" Roosevelt?

And small town college town lily white Vermont is slightly different from the rest of the country.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Colored people in general would be more supportive to his plans, and generally are if heard in a vacuum. So i don't understand why Lily white was mentioned.

This is naive thinking. We haven't had a presidential candidate like Bernie before. His ability to withstand intense scrutiny from the entire Republican party is untested.

Don't let your idealism get in the way of understanding that we are sailing into uncharted waters here.

I guess, its not as if i am not cautious, but i have a lot of faith in Bernie's message, in that it is something a majority of people in this country support.

 

[Knoxcore]

His message WILL resonate. Because more than any small policy difference, his overall message reonates. Every person in this country needs medicare care, every person in this country has to worry about how they are going to get their educate. Most people in this country know the pain of worrying atleast once about how they are going to afford their livelihoods working a full time job with not enough coming in.

These are common issues that, actually poll far better spread out between liberals, independents and even republicans than any of the social stuff that gets caught in the trees.

Of course everyone think about those issues. But, they never think about how to pay for it. How do you think swing voters will respond to the idea of a new 6% tax to pay for single-payer. Wait for the ads calling him a socialist or a communist, or that he wants a 90% tax rate or that he wants to get rid of your private health insurance or that he wants to turn America into the Soviet Union or that he's the second coming of Mao. Bernie Sanders has been virtually ignored by the media. He has not been vetted--either his past or the policies he support. If he's the nominee I'll do my best to ensure he wins, but I'm not going to pretend that his vision will resonate with the electorate just because the issues resonate with the liberal base of the Democratic Party.

 

[ZealousD]

1. Yes we have...FDR,Truman, and a host of others.

FDR and Truman are not running as self-described socialists in a post Cold War environment. And the political map and demographics involved are completely different.

2. Except all those times he's ran against republicans (and democrats) before like during his mayoral race and others.

Right, because the entire Republican party focuses its energies on mayoral races.

 

[Henchmen21]

FDR and Truman are not running as self-described socialists in a post Cold War environment. And the political map and demographics involved are completely different.



Right, because the entire Republican party focuses its energies on mayoral races.

Doesn't matter. You stated we hadn't seen this before. I stated two times we had.

Also the entire republican party isn't going to be against sanders. Just Trump and seeing how polls have shown how Bernie wipes the floor with any of them by significant margins, it's hardly a concern.

 

[ZealousD]

Doesn't matter. You stated we hadn't seen this before. I stated two times we had.

I don't think you understand that I was pointing out that Sanders was not FDR or Truman.

Also the entire republican party isn't going to be against sanders. Just Trump...

Hold on.

You thought that I meant that Sanders was literally running against every Republican. Like the November ballot would say "Sanders, Trump, Cruz, Rubio, Bush, etc"? I mean, either you thought that, or you think that when Trump wins the nomination, that the whole rest of the party is going to go "oh whelp, time to pack it up. let's vote for Sanders."

Is it really so hard for you to grasp what I mean when I say "the scrutiny of the entire Republican party"?

 

[BowieZ]

Of course everyone think about those issues. But, they never think about how to pay for it. How do you think swing voters will respond to the idea of a new 6% tax to pay for single-payer. Wait for the ads calling him a socialist or a communist, or that he wants a 90% tax rate or that he wants to get rid of your private health insurance or that he wants to turn America into the Soviet Union or that he's the second coming of Mao. Bernie Sanders has been virtually ignored by the media. He has not been vetted--either his past or the policies he support. If he's the nominee I'll do my best to ensure he wins, but I'm not going to pretend that his vision will resonate with the electorate just because the issues resonate with the liberal base of the Democratic Party.

He was asked this a night ago (I think MSNBC though lol) and his response was well-explained, calm and rational, and sounded good (without premiums, the new tax for single payer will actually reduce costs for most people and businesses. His message sounds good, sounds logical, and he sounds confident. He will probably tear Trump to shreds, not the other way round.

 

[Henchmen21]

I don't think you understand that I was pointing out that Sanders was not FDR or Truman.



Hold on.

You thought that I meant that Sanders was literally running against every Republican. Like the November ballot would say "Sanders, Trump, Cruz, Rubio, Bush, etc"? I mean, either you thought that, or you think that when Trump wins the nomination, that the whole rest of the party is going to go "oh whelp, time to pack it up. let's vote for Sanders."

Is it really so hard for you to grasp what I mean when I say "the scrutiny of the entire Republican party"?

No I mean that Trump will get the nom but the republican establishment hate him so much that they won't have time to coordinate against Bernie since they will be scared of what Trump will do.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Honestly i have more faith in Sanders being able to answers debates and pressing questions, because he believe what he say, he fought all his life as a politicians for the things he's proposing, he's not reading from a note of "hip" things to say.
On the other hand i fear Hillary could easily show not as much firmness in her belief, if she actually has any at all since all she say seems to be extremely fake and directed. Sanders is like Trump in that sense, he's anti-estabilishment, and he fight for more personal reasons, so his words and reasoning carry more weight.

Trump would probably kill Shillary with some pressing on her donors, wall street politics and who know what other skeleton. I doubt Sanders have the kind of skeletons that could ruin his run. On the other hand, Sanders is extremely old and has the label of socialist, which in the US , as i understand, is seen as something bad.

One thing is certain. This presidential run is all about the anti-estabilishment vs the estabilishment. This shit happened like 30 years ago in Italy, and Silvio came in power for 20 years as the self-made man who was not corruptable by others cause he's rich as fuck and he represent only his self-made interests. For all the shit he said, he did remarkably little outside of the typical things rich dudes do: lower taxes on rich people, depenalize fiscal theft for rich people, and then basically nothing relevant outside of that because of fear of losing popularity, continuing a tradition of mediocrity and compromise for italian politicians.

 

[ZealousD]

No I mean that Trump will get the nom but the republican establishment hate him so much that they won't have time to coordinate against Bernie since they will be scared of what Trump will do.

You think they're more scared of Trump than Bernie?

Honestly, now.

 

[valkillmore]

Just watched two clips of Bernie and his wife, one an interview on CNN and the other a group panel on Morning Joe. I love them both. Easy to get inspired about the future listening to his leadership plan.

 

[The One and Done™]

Love Bernie. Feel the Bern!

 

[JustenP88]

Just watched two clips of Bernie and his wife, one an interview on CNN and the other a group panel on Morning Joe. I love them both. Easy to get inspired about the future listening to his leadership plan.

Jane is great. Looking forward to seeing more of her in the coming months.

 

[Henchmen21]

You think they're more scared of Trump than Bernie?

Honestly, now.

Look at how they're reacting to him right now. They're way more afraid of Trump since they know he will cost them the election and possibly more. That isn't to say they aren't afraid of Bernie since they know he has popular support behind him but Trump has caused a real schism in the party and they are and will be more focused on that than any Dem opponent.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

You think they're more scared of Trump than Bernie?

Honestly, now.

I see it as this (not sure how accurate this is): Bernie could cost them the White House (if he somehow wins the nomination), Trump could cost them Congress and Senate plus the White House, and they've even said as much.

 

[Not]

I'm getting my hopes up. But honestly I'd be equally cool with either the first female president who would probably appoint some decent justices, or the most effective president of the last thirty years who hopefully doesn't die before his term is up.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

I kind of hope he doesnt even though i think he is great. The GOP would chew him up and spit him out.

 

[Foffy]

170 economists and financial experts in favour of Sen.Sanders' wall street reforms

I would not be surprised to know Reich literally was on board first and foremost. He's almost absolutely planned to be in Sanders' administration.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Here's Bernie's best response to critics of his healthcare plan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHIlX1MDSQk

I kind of hope he doesnt even though i think he is great. The GOP would chew him up and spit him out.

The GOP would be destroyed by his calm and factual analysis. What are they going to call him? A socialist? Lol. He shrugs his shoulders, life goes on

 

[damisa]

Here's Bernie's best response to critics of his healthcare plan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHIlX1MDSQk



The GOP would be destroyed by his calm and factual analysis. What are they going to call him? A socialist? Lol. He shrugs his shoulders, life goes on

All Trump has to do is say
"This guy here wants to raise taxes on working class Americans so he can give control of Health Care and Education to the Federal Government! The same Federal government which spent hundreds of millions on a website that didn't even work. My friend's six year old could build a working website. Bernie Sanders would be an unprecedented disaster, America is not a communist country. More taxes and more government will not make America great again."

Not to mention the non-stop commercials with Bernie's face placed next to pictures of Fidel Castro, Lenin, etc. with scary music playing talking about 90% tax rates and turning America into the Soviet Union.

 

[valkillmore]

Jane is great. Looking forward to seeing more of her in the coming months.

Yeah same. Very genuine, and selfless. Doesn't help she has a glowing smile. They're a cute couple for sure.

 

[JinjoUnchained]

The Democratic party is more afraid of nominating Sanders than the GOP is of nominating Trump. They're only paying him lip service because he's been way back in the polls.

 

[Inuhanyou]

All Trump has to do is say
"This guy here wants to raise taxes on working class Americans so he can give control of Health Care and Education to the Federal Government! The same Federal government which spent hundreds of millions on a website that didn't even work. My friend's six year old could build a working website. Bernie Sanders would be an unprecedented disaster, America is not a communist country. More taxes and more government will not make America great again."

Not to mention the non-stop commercials with Bernie's face placed next to pictures of Fidel Castro, Lenin, etc. with scary music playing talking about 90% tax rates and turning America into the Soviet Union.

Not every American is a tea partier, not every Republican or former republican eats tht shit up either. You actually think independents and Democrats most of all would be swayed by a Republican fear-mongering?

 

[disastermouse]

This is naive thinking. We haven't had a presidential candidate like Bernie before. His ability to withstand intense scrutiny from the entire Republican party is untested.

Don't let your idealism get in the way of understanding that we are sailing into uncharted waters here.

LOL. We haven't had a presidential candidate like this before?!

FDR. He was so unelectable that he only got elected to three terms.

 

[Ogrekiller]

Not every American is a tea partier, not every Republican or former republican eats tht shit up either. You actually think independents and Democrats most of all would be swayed by a Republican fear-mongering?

Of course.

Just look at Hillary.

 

[JesseEwiak]

LOL. We haven't had a presidential candidate like this before?!

FDR. He was so unelectable that he only got elected to three terms.

You mean, the guy who rant to the right of Hoover in the 1932 election? The guy who cut spending after the '38 midterms when he got walloped? The guy who drastically expanded the military? The guy who cut a deal with racists to get Social Security passed? The guy who put thousands of innocent Asian Americans into internment camps?

That socialist?

The GOP would be destroyed by his calm and factual analysis. What are they going to call him? A socialist? Lol. He shrugs his shoulders, life goes on

Because if we know one thing America loves, it calm and factual analysis. Now, let's go back to the hit shows Keeping Up With the Kardasians and Nancy Grace Presents!

 

[makingmusic476]

Here's Bernie's best response to critics of his healthcare plan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHIlX1MDSQk



The GOP would be destroyed by his calm and factual analysis. What are they going to call him? A socialist? Lol. He shrugs his shoulders, life goes on

I love Bernie, and I really want single-payer, but has he ever talked about what he'll do if he can't get single-payer passed? Work towards adding a public option to the ACA? Any other tweaks?

That's been my main problem with Bernie. I agree with almost all of his policy goals, but they're very idealistic. What smaller and more feasible goals does he have?

You mean, the guy who rant to the right of Hoover in the 1932 election? The guy who cut spending after the '38 midterms when he got walloped? The guy who drastically expanded the military? The guy who cut a deal with racists to get Social Security passed? The guy who put thousands of innocent Asian Americans into internment camps?

That socialist?



Because if we know one thing America loves, it calm and factual analysis. Now, let's go back to the hit shows Keeping Up With the Kardasians and Nancy Grace Presents!

That, and FDR was elected at a time when populist candidates promising strong, centralized anti-poverty programs were getting elected or riding revolution to power all over the world. The 1930s isn't really comparable to today. Imagine a guy like Huey Long getting elected in Louisiana right now lol.

 

[OuterLimits]

Perhaps someone can explain to me the strategy behind Hillary attacking Bernie on single payer? I thought most Dems love single payer, or are there still a fair amount of centrist Democrats who don't? Just seems bizarre to me. Certainly she could choose other stuff to go after him on?

It seems like it would be equivalent to a Republican candidate attacking another for being pro-life. I imagine that would go over well with the base.

 

[makingmusic476]

Perhaps someone can explain to me the strategy behind Hillary attacking Bernie on single payer? I thought most Dems love single payer, or are there still a fair amount of centrist Democrats who don't? Just seems bizarre to me. Certainly she could choose other stuff to go after him on?

It seems like it would be equivalent to a Republican candidate attacking another for being pro-life. I imagine that would go over well with the base.

It does seem pretty dumb, tbh.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Perhaps someone can explain to me the strategy behind Hillary attacking Bernie on single payer? I thought most Dems love single payer, or are there still a fair amount of centrist Democrats who don't? Just seems bizarre to me. Certainly she could choose other stuff to go after him on?

It seems like it would be equivalent to a Republican candidate attacking another for being pro-life. I imagine that would go over well with the base.

She's making the implication that Bernie plans on gutting Obamacare just as republicans wish to. She's not attacking single payer, she's omitting that part of his healthcare platform.


In my opinion, this line of attack does neither candidate any favors. It's disingenuous and paints her as someone who will say anything to win an election. That's the damage it does to Hillary. On Bernie's end, it lays the tracks for the GOP to continue that line of attack should he become the nominee. This just isn't a smart, long-term strategy from Clinton and regardless of which of the two candidates you support, I would find it hard to defend this line of attack. It helps neither of them.

 

[Chariot]

Perhaps someone can explain to me the strategy behind Hillary attacking Bernie on single payer? I thought most Dems love single payer, or are there still a fair amount of centrist Democrats who don't? Just seems bizarre to me. Certainly she could choose other stuff to go after him on?

It seems like it would be equivalent to a Republican candidate attacking another for being pro-life. I imagine that would go over well with the base.

I think it's blood ties. She did that in reaction of her daughter attacking Sanders on it first. Instead of telling ger daughter to cut it out she choose to double down it.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

I think it's blood ties. She did that in reaction of her daughter attacking Sanders on it first. Instead of telling ger daughter to cut it out she choose to double down it.

Seems a little reactionary. There's a phone in the white house. If it's 3 AM and our children are safe and asleep, is this who we want answering the phone?

 

[docbon]

https://go.berniesanders.com/page/s/MLK-legacy?source=reddit

Tune In Via Livestream to Hear Bernie Discuss Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s Legacy
This Sunday at 2pm, Bernie will discuss Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., his legacy and the relevance of his work today. Bernie will be joined by Killer Mike, Ohio State Senator Nina Turner and Dr. Cornel West.

Sign up to tune in to the conversation via livestream by submitting the form on this page.

The barber shop interview was pretty cool so I'll check this out too.

 

[Indicate]

he's the real he loves us

"As frustrating and as difficult as it is, I can't turn my back on the struggles that people are going through. People are hurting very very badly and they're looking for some hope in Washington and I cant turn my back on those people. I'm not going to walk away, as tempting as that is." - B

https://go.berniesanders.com/page/s/MLK-legacy?source=reddit


The barber shop interview was pretty cool so I'll check this out too.

I think this will be a really interesting discussion to watch and deserves its own thread come Sunday.

 

[makingmusic476]

https://go.berniesanders.com/page/s/MLK-legacy?source=reddit


The barber shop interview was pretty cool so I'll check this out too.

I wanna hug Bernie Sanders. <3

 

[soul creator]

All Trump has to do is say
"This guy here wants to raise taxes on working class Americans so he can give control of Health Care and Education to the Federal Government! The same Federal government which spent hundreds of millions on a website that didn't even work. My friend's six year old could build a working website. Bernie Sanders would be an unprecedented disaster, America is not a communist country. More taxes and more government will not make America great again."

Not to mention the non-stop commercials with Bernie's face placed next to pictures of Fidel Castro, Lenin, etc. with scary music playing talking about 90% tax rates and turning America into the Soviet Union.

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/17/let...mp_sounded_like_bernie_sanders_on_healthcare/

lol

 

[disastermouse]

You mean, the guy who rant to the right of Hoover in the 1932 election? The guy who cut spending after the '38 midterms when he got walloped? The guy who drastically expanded the military? The guy who cut a deal with racists to get Social Security passed? The guy who put thousands of innocent Asian Americans into internment camps?

That socialist?



Because if we know one thing America loves, it calm and factual analysis. Now, let's go back to the hit shows Keeping Up With the Kardasians and Nancy Grace Presents!

I'm not saying the man didn't have his problems. Also, definitely not a socialist. He got involved in the Upton Sinclair race to make sure he couldn't get elected.

As for the internment camps, all the cool kids were doing it. It didn't look as Nazi then.

And make up your mind regarding socialists and the military. Either Stalin wasn't really a socialist (big military) or he was (big military can be leftist).

As for the racists, Lincoln fucked that up by not just letting the South secede and then invading when they fell to shit or brokering with the slaves when they went Sparticus.

That ratio of white to black was unsustainable without eventual bloody and violent revolution.

 

[onipex]

I would vote for Bernie if he won the nom, but I really don't get most of the hate I see for Hillary. Both want better health care ( Hillary isn't again single payer), both want wallstreet regulations ( most democrats take money from wallstreet and most still support more regulations), and both want more affordable education. These are things both of them have been talking about for years.

I'm not really against the positions of either candidate and neither one will get most of what they are for if elected because of congress.

 

[disastermouse]

All Trump has to do is say
"This guy here wants to raise taxes on working class Americans so he can give control of Health Care and Education to the Federal Government! The same Federal government which spent hundreds of millions on a website that didn't even work. My friend's six year old could build a working website. Bernie Sanders would be an unprecedented disaster, America is not a communist country. More taxes and more government will not make America great again."

Not to mention the non-stop commercials with Bernie's face placed next to pictures of Fidel Castro, Lenin, etc. with scary music playing talking about 90% tax rates and turning America into the Soviet Union.

Except that sorta IS the liberal position. Find a way to sell it or we keep going to the right.

I think that if conservatives can sell supply side economics and Wall Street 'job creators', liberals can do a better job selling, you know, fairness and basic human decency.

 

[Funky Papa]

The GOP would be destroyed by his calm and factual analysis. What are they going to call him? A socialist? Lol. He shrugs his shoulders, life goes on

Look, I like Bernie and everything, but the GOP's core (which is not a small group of people) doesn't give the tiniest fuck about calmness nor facts. They want talking points, not discussion.

The Democratic party is more afraid of nominating Sanders than the GOP is of nominating Trump. They're only paying him lip service because he's been way back in the polls.

Truth.

I love Bernie, and I really want single-payer, but has he ever talked about what he'll do if he can't get single-payer passed? Work towards adding a public option to the ACA? Any other tweaks?

That's been my main problem with Bernie. I agree with almost all of his policy goals, but they're very idealistic. What smaller and more feasible goals does he have?

You always have to compromise to a degree or forget about some of your goals. This is the sad reality. This is also why from a reformist perspective it's absolutely imperative to aim for the moon; any other option is asking for more of the same at best.

I would vote for Bernie if he won the nom, but I really don't get most of the hate I see for Hillary. Both want better health care ( Hillary isn't again single payer), both want wallstreet regulations ( most democrats take money from wallstreet and most still support more regulations), and both want more affordable education. These are things both of them have been talking about for years.

I'm not really against the positions of either candidate and neither one will get most of what they are for if elected because of congress.

She has a long history of being a corporate gun for hire, so all her talk about Wall Street regulation is more than suspect. She's also seen as a belicose hawk and her position on certain issues such as espionage and whistleblowing is absolutely abysmal. Given that Sanders has built his platform around civil rights and corporate supervision, it's not hard to see why many of his supporters distrust her.

 

[disastermouse]

Look, I like Bernie and everything, but the GOP's core (which is not a small group of people) doesn't give the tiniest fuck about calmness nor facts. They want talking points, not discussion.

The biggest mistake you can make is to assume that your opponent is a better or worse person than you are. Often, you can chalk up the difference of opinion to a difference in values.

 

[jerry1594]

I'm getting my hopes up. But honestly I'd be equally cool with either the first female president who would probably appoint some decent justices, or the most effective president of the last thirty years who hopefully doesn't die before his term is up.

Most effective is the funniest thing I've read all day. Maybe you meant something else.