Bits N Pieces
Member
They have access to games they otherwise wouldn't? That's got to at least be a bit of a plus, no?
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Greenberg: Quantum Break is not coming to Steam
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
They have access to games they otherwise wouldn't? That's got to at least be a bit of a plus, no?
motorised mallard
Member
The question is, why is that "experience" coming to my desktop pc?
No it's not, it's my money and I'm allowed to vote with my wallet. EVEN if it was just about it being on a different store than Steam and I simply want to avoid the hassle of using a yet another client for my games, who the fuck are you to call me petty?
So how many people is that now that have commented without actually reading the thread even slightly
Makes you wonder how many people are really interested in the actual game. And those who just want to say 'no steam, no buy'. At least those who wanted to play it will get the opportunity.
How is klicking "Play" on steam any harder than klicking "Play" in Microsoft's program?
How is breaking modding and many external programs in any way beneficial to us end users?
arhra
Member
Apart from the fact that it doesn't work if you're not running Steam.
And yes, you could totally do the same stuff without relying on an overlay. You could have the entire mapping and mode-switching mechanisms implemented in the firmware of the controller, for example, so the host PC only ever saw a mouse/keyboard if you have it set up that way. Or in a system-level driver that would still be seen by store apps.
Having it designed to only work through the mediation of the Steam software was absolutely a design choice, and a pretty shitty one at that.
Security/trust/ease-of-use.
The sandboxing and code-signing/verification mechanisms that prevent the big list of stuff that Durante has been posting every few pages also prevents malicious and/or nefarious changes to app files, meaning anything from cheating mechanisms that inject wallhacks/aimbots/etc, to third-party malware that can infect an application and start serving ads at you or turning your machine into a spambot zombie.
The app model also rationalizes and vastly simplifies installation/uninstallation and app updates, preventing certain classes of bug entirely (ie, misconfigured update or uninstall scripts that can wipe entire drives and/or render systems unbootable). That part could have been implemented without the security mechanisms that are the problem/feature here, though.
motorised mallard
Member
Does this include software for fancy mouses/keyboards?
That's what I just thought when I read your answer. Maybe you need to read up on the issue.
That wasn't my point. It's listed as DRM-free on several sites, despite it not being that way.
Pokemaniac
Member
It actually is more secure to run them in a sandbox like this, and having the store work more or less like a package manager is a significant improvement over the normal Windows install experience (This is one of those weird areas where Linux is almost universally superior to Windows in terms of usability.).
kenjigreat
Banned
A good portion of the post are the driveby No Steam No buy post.
This thread is as much about Microsoft's plans wrt PC gaming in general, which extends well beyond Quantum Break as such. It makes sense that it would attract more discussion than previews of a pretty third-person cover shooter.
Atraveller
Banned
MS could make a Steam-like game client, to get 100% of the profit and at the same time not release a game in Windows Store that handicaps user experience. But no, they gotta use that POS store.
Ulysses 31
Member
Isn't it up to the publishers to decide how moddible their PC products are? Do you feel they owe you being able to mod their stuff?
Nocturno999
Member
The majority of people are giving very valid reasons for their concerns while apologists can't even read the frickin thread.
see the issue isn't making it exclusive to their store. The issue is making statements about supporting Steam, being open and winning trust on PC then doing the same weak plays to try and "lure" people to their ecosystem with exclusivity.
People just don't like mixed messages and apparently confused strategies.
Making Halo 2 tied to Windows Vista didn't do the game favours and making QB tied to Windows store won't don't the game any favours either with respect to PC sales.
MS really need to define and stick to a clear message and if its to focus on their ecosystem that's fine: just say so. They'll actually achieve more with honest positioning than how they currently approach things.
People just don't like mixed messages and apparently confused strategies.
Making Halo 2 tied to Windows Vista didn't do the game favours and making QB tied to Windows store won't don't the game any favours either with respect to PC sales.
MS really need to define and stick to a clear message and if its to focus on their ecosystem that's fine: just say so. They'll actually achieve more with honest positioning than how they currently approach things.
Deciding to forgo playing a game because of superficial reasons is the definition of petty.
Jesus Christ, did you even read the thread? Already posted my retort regarding the other criticisms last page.
CecilRousso
Member
Except that it does. It works both to control Windows itself, without Steam running, and it works in other threads. Some games outside Steam might have issues with it, but it's not locked down to just be useable with Steam.
You might need to configure it through Steam, not sure about that, but it can be used outside it.
I've read the thread, I'm calling you out on you actually calling people petty for making educated financial decisions and sticking to them on principle
Did you even read my post?
Lmao no it's not. What a fucked up apologist mentality.
e: as it currently stands, they aren't superficial reasons either. Come back to me when Microsoft has gotten rid of the UWP stuff. Your "retort" is literally "maybe it won't be so bad in the future".
Sad when there is less emphasis on the actual gameplay/graphical elements (which is what most gamers care about) and more about the sales, exclusivity etc .. anyhow this thread is dedicated to discussing the latter.
ValkyrUser
Member
Since I have no interest in owning an Xbox One nor do I have an interest in yet another digital distribution platform I guess I'll never play it. Suck though because I really love Remedy.
CecilRousso
Member
It's sad that people engage in discussion and try to be aware aware of what different stores mean for you as customer, about what your money will get you, instead of just accepting anything and everything?
This is a wider subject then just being about a single game, so it's really not strange at all that a thread about it will have more posts.
wapplew
Member
Maybe the whole idea of windows store is making PC a fool proof close system like Xbox live.
So this "thing" is not for us but aiming for that phone/tablet crowd.
Again, yes it is - if you have Windows 10 you have the Windows Store by default so you don't even have go through to arduous task of downloading and installing a new client, don't even have to register an account because I know submitting a form is like climbing Mt Everest.
response to your edit: I'm simply saying wait before the game is release before assuming they have not implemented the changes people have requested, even if the average user couldn't care less about it. Btw, the average user does not even frequent gaming forums.
Palette Swap
Member
Considering the Win10 store's shitty sandboxed mode can have an impact on these, this comment seems a bit misguided.
Some of it, yes. All of it? Not even remotely.
The Steam controller is designed
- for its configuration to be easily tweakable in-game.
- to allow the display of overlay menus in order to replicate complex mouse/keyboard functionality.
As I said, marketing genius whoever came up with using the word "trust" for "restriction".
It's not about the fucking store Jesus Christ.
GHG
Member
Hahaha. Have you seen the system requirements for the game? Do you think the average user has a computer capable of even running the game, let a lone to a decent standard. Look at the system requirements and then have a rethink about everything you just said.
If anything it's shortsighted to assume they will fix these problems in time for the release based on their previous history.
I don't even see them scrambling around trying to fix these issues for people who were unfortunate enough to buy Tomb Raider via the windows store.
Mumble has an overlay to show who is talking, which is kind of important if you are running a guild chat with 20+ members.
It also has direct integration with a huge number of games to provide positional audio (by dll injection).
Yes IT IS, or have you not trawled for the posts of 'no steam no buy'?
QB is the only game who could make me buy a XONE, so now im happy its release on PC aswell and the same day! (no need to wait years for PC version)
im glad i moved to win10 since few month : its stable, everything work fine, no BSOD at all, except few things (like win update) Microsoft are going on the right way
They even allow to use gmail account for mail/agenda on their own default apps, in past that would never happened.
Steam originally was a piece of crap, i waited months to move into and was forced to move because of CounterStrike, Origin was a piece of shit for a very long time aswell now its "ok enough" that dont bother me i dont have any memory leak or bug like the few first version and they didnt got the Steam excuse : "they was first".
Now GFWL was bad, very bad, that was a pain to play in multiplayer to DarkSoul
Again if they release HL3 only for Win10 only for WinStore i predict a huge amount of Win10 download with a +300% increase even if everyone will complaining, 95% of this thread will still buy it.
im glad i moved to win10 since few month : its stable, everything work fine, no BSOD at all, except few things (like win update) Microsoft are going on the right way
They even allow to use gmail account for mail/agenda on their own default apps, in past that would never happened.
Steam originally was a piece of crap, i waited months to move into and was forced to move because of CounterStrike, Origin was a piece of shit for a very long time aswell now its "ok enough" that dont bother me i dont have any memory leak or bug like the few first version and they didnt got the Steam excuse : "they was first".
Now GFWL was bad, very bad, that was a pain to play in multiplayer to DarkSoul
Again if they release HL3 only for Win10 only for WinStore i predict a huge amount of Win10 download with a +300% increase even if everyone will complaining, 95% of this thread will still buy it.
CecilRousso
Member
This is not about how stable or user friendly or feature rich the Win10 store is.
Stone Ocean
Member
The average user does not buy high end PC games, they buy Xbox games.
Because drive by posts surely invalidate the argument being made.
I would buy this game on any existing storefront. Just not the one lead by Microsoft.
I'd happily buy it (well, perhaps not happily, but I'd buy it) on a Microsoft store if I could buy an actual PC game and not an "app".
So exactly how many of the "no steam no buy" posts are purely about the store front and how many are about the severe technical problems / limitations of buying content on said store?
Ninja Sharingan
Banned
well My only advice is you dont need to spend the money. It's like anything. Microsoft owns the IP, they own the product. They sell it at their store. Do you want to go and buy from that store knowing its restrictions. If not, that is totally fine, but there is no point in kicking off about it.
Here you go:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=195147494&postcount=656
These are not "superficial reasons".
A consumer has the right to complain and in fact should be as vocal as possible. It's the only way to improve products and services. Companies are better for it.
See: Xbox One.
GHG
Member
Don't worry, the Xbox One was going to be great, people just didn't understand. The world wasn't ready for the original vision of the Xbox One.
CecilRousso
Member
Well, I'm not really asking for your advice, or for you to resolve the situation in any way. I'm engaging in this discussion to learn more about this, so your comment about "no point kicking of about it" is a bit arrogant really. It's not like it's up to you to decide whether or not the discussion has run it's course.
This thread has been useful for me, considering that I went into this thread with the stance that I felt it was a shame that Microsoft has decided to use this store for a game like that, and here learnt more about the difference between the Win10 apps and proper PC games, by Durantes excellent summary and posts from other people, and what that has for implications for how we will be able to use the product we buy through their store.
motorised mallard
Member
How until the app store games lose all options (graphics/keybinds/etc) in the name of "ease of use"?
Half jokingly asked but it seems like a logical next step down the road.
Half jokingly asked but it seems like a logical next step down the road.
The best solution for me regarding how games appear on my PC would be to simply open one program and have my entire library available in that program. However this is impossible so I end up having installed Steam, Uplay, Origin, GOG and now, the Windows 10 store/library app. For someone who likes to keep things clean and minimalist this is not the best solution but competition is good.
The thing is, from what I read, Rise of Tomb Raider in the Windows Store may not provide the best solution to some tools and therefore the consumer will be more limited and that is the thing many won't like. I understand what Microsoft is trying to do in here, I just hope they get it right at least. Here's hoping they can learn from the feedback provided and improve the way on how they offer their products.
The thing is, from what I read, Rise of Tomb Raider in the Windows Store may not provide the best solution to some tools and therefore the consumer will be more limited and that is the thing many won't like. I understand what Microsoft is trying to do in here, I just hope they get it right at least. Here's hoping they can learn from the feedback provided and improve the way on how they offer their products.
I'm getting tired of repeating myself because people are too lazy to look through my post history. My 'superficial' comment was simply the basis of people not playing the game because it's not on Steam. If they do not make the changes to .exe injections performance tweaks then that is a fair reason, but they could easily say they have implemented those changes at their Feb 28 event. So let's wait and see before assuming the worst.
"Those changes" go against the very foundation of "Universal Apps", which is their big company-wide push.
Necromanti
Member
Wait, do all of the games on the Windows Store come in the form of Metro apps? Oh god.
More like, idiotic comments from people that didn't care to read about the perfectly valid complaints raised against the Windows Storefront.
I don't understand what would prevent the game dev from implementing this. You need to inject code only if it needs to be done externally. It's just that the mumble app won't be able to "hijack" audio from the game without the game explicitly giving it a way to do that.
If the game dev decides to support mumble i don't see how those restrictions will affect him.
To me it seems like all those "immposible" things come down to inability to fix those things post-release, and not the game dev's inability to implement them.
Meaining that those things are possible, but they need to be done properly by the game dev rather than be fixed by the community after the game is out.
Anyway, I think you are avoiding the actual issue here. This isn't about a few restrictions on video games. It's about MS going against the "Free software" (“free” as in “free speech,” not as in “free beer”
phylosophy.Microsoft is the extreme outlier in how they deliver the PC games on their storefront so yes, they are at fault for not allowing me to interface with these games when the vast majority of PC games can be launched through Steam just fine because they're not using some garbage container.
I agree. I like control and injecting SMAA, FPS counters, and SweetFX as much as the next guy but the game being on the Windows Store has no bearing on my future purchase. It is coming to PC and I will be getting it regardless of the platform it will release on. I'm not about that bullshit ' no Steam, no buy" life.
Atraveller
Banned
There's more.
This is what happens when you use SLi, want to use nvidia inspector to fix it? Well you can't. There's a patch on Steam that fixed this, Window Store's patch was said to arrive a few days after Steam's, since I don't own it on Window Store, I'm not sure if it's released now.
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