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Tracer's butt victory pose will be removed from Overwatch

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M

Mr_Antimatter

Member
Maedhros said:
And that's what I don't think it's right. I don't really believe that they removed it only because they agreed with the woman's post.

And I think devs are being more and more controlled by player feedback these days. More than ever it was in the past.

But we'll agree to disagree. I'll never convince you of the opposite, but seeing so many games changing their content because of "fitting to the tastes of the market" is telling for me.

Bye guys, it's was nice posting a bit about this without getting banned.
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And out you go, because you can't actually provide any evidence of this.

It's all 'shadowy cabal of skeletons / PC culture/ etc forced the devs hands!"

It just completely ignores the reality of business and who has creative control. If content changes, it's because someone with control wanted it changed, and baring direct government action, that someone is always internal to the dev or publisher. If they wanted to keep the content, come hell or high water, they would, because it's their content.

If they want to tailor their game to a particular market, it's still their choice, again, baring direct government action. To deny this is basically to say devs and publishers have no control over their own games.
 
Gun Animal

Gun Animal

Member
By addressing the individual complaint but not the root of the non-problem (painted-on pants) and riding the resulting publicity wave, it seems like Blizzard got to have their butt and eat it too. Good for them!
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
half a moon said:
Have you ever played a blizzard game and discussed patches with the community and cm's? Do you think every change should be gospel?
Click to expand...

Are we talking about balancing? Because you mentioning patches and communities and CM's implies patches.

It's a cosmetic thing that THEY ARE REPLACING WITH SOMETHING ELSE. You are trading 1 thing for another thing that will probably be similar.

This is not nerfing or buffing a character. And while yes, I do disagree on some cosmetic things like microtransactions, a pose for a character is something I would file under 'irrelevant to the health of the game.' when it comes to discussing about patches.
 
DR2K

DR2K

Banned
If you're trying to appease a certain fanbase why not just give her clothing that's appropriate for combat?
 
B

blankempathy

Member
DXLelouch153 said:
nuke deployed
mwhahahahahaha
Click to expand...

Is she scrubbing that pole? As for that catalog linked for yoga pants I found some of those poses the women were making more seductive then Tracers and that sites supposed to be selling those pants to women. Really odd. Then again most male underwear ads are dudes in underwear sporting six packs.
 
S

Syf

Banned
New post from Jeff:

Well, that escalated quickly…

While I stand by my previous comment, I realize I should have been more clear. As the game director, I have final creative say over what does or does not go into the game. With this particular decision, it was an easy one to make—not just for me, but for the art team as well. We actually already have an alternate pose that we love and we feel speaks more to the character of Tracer. We weren’t entirely happy with the original pose, it was always one that we wrestled with creatively. That the pose had been called into question from an appropriateness standpoint by players in our community did help influence our decision—getting that kind of feedback is part of the reason we’re holding a closed beta test—but it wasn’t the only factor. We made the decision to go with a different pose in part because we shared some of the same concerns, but also because we wanted to create something better.

We wouldn’t do anything to sacrifice our creative vision for Overwatch, and we’re not going to remove something solely because someone may take issue with it. Our goal isn’t to water down or homogenize the world, or the diverse cast of heroes we’ve built within it. We have poured so much of our heart and souls into this game that it would be a travesty for us to do so.

We understand that not everyone will agree with our decision, and that’s okay. That’s what these kinds of public tests are for. This wasn’t pandering or caving, though. This was the right call from our perspective, and we think the game will be just as fun the next time you play it.

If it isn’t, feel free to continue sharing your concerns, thoughts, and feedback about this and other issues you may have with the game, please just keep the discussion respectful.

Thanks,

jeffrey

(btw, unlocking this thread. please continue the discussion here)
Click to expand...

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20743015583?page=11
 
C

chocoedd

Member
BreezyLimbo said:
Tracer is pixie-like, if you've played her in game or seen her be played, she's very fast and nimble and very tricky. Almost like a fairy of sorts, moving fast, causing trouble by moving rapidly, laughing, jumping around.
Click to expand...

And people with these traits cannot be sexy because...
 
J

JDB

Banned
Crazy how many people refuse to read the blizzard post in the OP, or read it but can't comprehend.

The original complaint has nothing against butt poses. Their issue was that it was out of character. Now you can say "it's just a video game" but aside from that working both ways, that's not the point. In any work of fiction, characters have a certain personality that needs to be adhered to.
 
M

Maedhros

Member
Mr_Antimatter said:
And out you go, because you can't actually provide any evidence of this.

It's all 'shadowy cabal of skeletons / PC culture/ etc forced the devs hands!"

It just completely ignores the reality of business and who has creative control. If content changes, it's because someone with control wanted it changed, and baring direct government action, that someone is always internal to the dev or publisher. If they wanted to keep the content, come hell or high water, they would, because it's their content.

If they want to tailor their game to a particular market, it's still their choice, again, baring direct government action. To deny this is basically to say devs and publishers have no control over their own games.
Click to expand...

Not without consequences, like media backslash for example.

Let's see how many of these topics we'll see in the future then. Where the developer makes a sexy woman and people complain and they remove because of backslash/feedback on beta or whatever case.
 
MiguelItUp

MiguelItUp

Member
veloxStrix said:
Leggings and yoga pants aren't much different. I mentioned it on the last page but it got lost.
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It's only a matter of time until someone is upset about those, though they've been around awhile. I feel like the whole thing is overreactive personally. If the devs decided to cut it out, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. It's just ridiculous to me to abide a single person for a Teen rated game. In the long run, I'll be honest and say I don't think the pose really fits her personality, so removing it is fine. It's just the way the whole thing has come about that I disagree with. It's especially strange when there's another character that has a just as revealing pose, if not more so. Well and it was fine up until almost 2 months away from release. It's just bizarre. If the team designed it and they're content with it, it should remain IMO. Not like it goes outside the boundaries of a Teen rating, or that it's terribly offensive to the majority.

Edit: Kudos to Jeff with the update. Hopefully everyone is happier with the situation now. While I didn't agree with how it panned out, it certainly didn't ruin my day. I hope it didn't ruin anyone's in the long run. I look forward to seeing her new pose!
 
Vlaphor

Vlaphor

Member
I agree with what he says, but I still think the proper option is to listen to the fans. Some want it in, some don't, so make it optional.
 
S

Siege.exe

Member
Gun Animal said:
By addressing the individual complaint but not the root of the non-problem (painted-on pants) and riding the resulting publicity wave, it seems like Blizzard got to have their butt and eat it too. Good for them!
Click to expand...

Thanks, now I have to force myself to sleep through fits of laughter.
 
Quote

Quote

Member
Syfadious said:
New post from Jeff:



http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20743015583?page=11
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A lot of people are going to be upset that it doesn't fit their conspiracy narrative after all.

Maedhros said:
Not without consequences, like media backslash for example.

Let's see how many of these topics we'll see in the future then. Where the developer makes a sexy woman and people complain and they remove because of backslash/feedback on beta or whatever case.
Click to expand...
That's not what happened here.
 
1

15strong

Member
Complex Shadow said:
THIS. THIS IS WHAT SHOULD'VE BEEN DONE/SAID FROM THE START.
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It shouldn't actually have to be said. It is their game and their vision. They clearly had legit reasons about why they wanted to change it.

We as communities go over board, practically apocalyptic, when a developer chooses to make a change. They do not need to inform us about every change they make. How much more entitled can we get than complaining about an emote in a game that is not even released yet?
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
To think we've reached a point where people are upset Blizzard is listening and responding to feedback promptly.
 
Vlaphor

Vlaphor

Member
Haly said:
To think we've reached a point where people are upset Blizzard is listening and responding to feedback promptly.
Click to expand...

Because they aren't. Reddit, these forums, and Blizzard's forums (just to name a few) clearly show that people prefer the pose be kept in.
 
D

DXLelouch153

Banned
MiguelItUp said:
It's only a matter of time until someone is upset about those, though they've been around awhile. I feel like the whole thing is overreactive personally. If the devs decided to cut it out, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. It's just ridiculous to me to abide a single person for a Teen rated game. In the long run, I'll be honest and say I don't think the pose really fits her personality, so removing it is fine. It's just the way the whole thing has come about that I disagree with. It's especially strange when there's another character that has a just as revealing pose, if not more so. Well and it was fine up until almost 2 months away from release. It's just bizarre. If the team designed it and they're content with it, it should remain IMO. Not like it goes outside the boundaries of a Teen rating, or that it's terribly offensive to the majority.
Click to expand...
there will be mass riots if yoga pants are ever banned
 
R

Redd

Member
DXLelouch153 said:

nuke deployed
mwhahahahahaha
Click to expand...

I can't stop looking at this.
 
M

Maedhros

Member
Quote said:
A lot of people are going to be upset that it doesn't fit their conspiracy narrative after all.
Click to expand...

Basically they admited the original pose wasn't what they wanted for the character, something the original response don't even touches at all. So it's a much better response.

But it still makes me wonder why they felt the need to change it after this particular post.

Quote said:
A lot of people are going to be upset that it doesn't fit their conspiracy narrative after all.


That's not what happened here.
Click to expand...

Apparently...
 
H

Hard

Banned
SPE said:
It's rated T (teen). Post pubescent gamers, who - SHOCK HORROR - might have sexual thoughts or themselves like to wear similar leggings/active wear.
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Like kids aren't gonna play this game like kids don't play Call of Duty :^)
 
G

Gurnlei

Member
ponpo said:
This is still in tho.

windowmaker-victory-pose-4-over-the-shoulder.png
Click to expand...


Why take out the pose for one character if another has it still? Go all in or nothing for these kind of things.

If they're going at this from the perspective of not fitting the character I'm not sure how it made it in the game anyways.
 
Y

ymgve

Member
Maedhros said:
Basically they admited the original pose wasn't what they wanted for the character, something the original response don't even touches at all. So it's a much better response.

But it still makes me wonder why they felt the need to change it after this particular post.
Click to expand...

<conspiracymode>maybe they realized that changing it would generate tons of discussion and a ton of extra PR for the game</conspiracymode>
 
M

Mr_Antimatter

Member
Maedhros said:
Not without consequences, like media backslash for example.

Let's see how many of these topics we'll see in the future then. Where the developer makes a sexy woman and people complain and they remove because of backslash/feedback on beta or whatever case.
Click to expand...

Um, so? People complaining does not equal creative control.

You've yet to explain how these external forces can force a dev to do what they do not agree to do.

I have literally seen a dev take said criticism, respond to it, and still keep their creative vision in tact. In person. In real time. While representing a large company. As an artist.

They are not slaves to external forces, they do what they want to do.
 
K

Kusagari

Member
They clearly made this character with an intention to highlight her ass. I don't care about the pose either way but I'm getting kind of annoyed with video game makers trying to have their cake and eat it too in regards to stuff like this.

They'll design their characters with intentions to titillate but quickly censor if they feel a pose/move/whatever goes too far because of the sexy design they gave the character in the first place.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Also, when it comes to deciding something about a character, among other questions, there are 2 things you have to ask yourself, and in this case I'll use overwatch characters-

Can Tracer be sexy? Yes she definitely can be.
Should she be sexy? She can, but doesn't need to be.

Can Widowmaker be sexy? Yes, she most definitely is.
Should she be sexy? Absolutely, she's a femme fatale.

Can Mei be sexy? Not really. More 'cute'.
Should she be sexy? Probably not, since she doesn't fit that type of character.

The point is, when you're infuriated about something being removed from a character you find sexy, something that 'devalues' the sexiness of the character, ask yourself these questions.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Vlaphor said:
Because they aren't. Reddit, these forums, and Blizzard's forums (just to name a few) clearly show that people prefer the pose be kept in.
Click to expand...
Not agreeing with you is not the same thing as not listening to you. These posts by Kaplan show top leads are keeping a personal eye on this drama, which is more than I can say for many years of radio silence on buffs and nerfs during my WoW days.
 
S

Siege.exe

Member
BreezyLimbo said:
I didn't say they cannot. They can be sexy, but they don't HAVE to be overtly sexy.

Huge difference. Your cans are not haves, your should's are not have to's,
Click to expand...

So I'm looking at this pose, and I'm struggling to see what's "overtly sexy" about it, or even regular sexy about it for that matter.
 
R

RM8

Member
I saw several threads (not on GAF, though) complaining that there's no third person view. How come Blizzard hasn't addressed this?
I'd love a third person option.

Why is it so hard to imagine that maybe Blizzard indeed agreed with the argument of the person complaining about the pose?
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
YoYo Switch said:
meanwhile the bullies who changed it in the first place are deluding themselves that this was their creative decision to change.
Click to expand...
The "bullies", LOL

Also, um, from your phrasing you're calling Blizzard bullies for... changing their own design... wat

BreezyLimbo said:
Oh god please don't compare it to Borderlands

I actually want this to have good writing
Click to expand...
This is a Blizzard game. I have bad news...

McKeeverFever said:
Dear video game industry stop listening to angry feminists that don't play games.
Click to expand...
Oh?
 
X

Xanezz

Banned
This change is pretty silly in my eyes.

The whole reasoning of it "not fitting the character" could be counter-argued by "shes just poking fun at widow's pose" and sounds no less far fetched as her "flaunting her sexuality".

Standing with your behind facing the camera is apparently very unlike a "silly, fast, and kind" heroine. Who knew.

You'll see what you want to see I suppose.




But hey, at least that one person on the official forum can sleep well knowing her daughter wont be confronted with a potential idol "flaunting" their behind at the camera.

Unless she'll be into pop music at any point during her life. Your twerk-disapproving deity of choice may save her soul then.



Let's hope that alternate pose is more interesting and this'll be a win-win after all.


Off topic:
Reading through this thread was (almost) worth it for the"she's staring at her own butt" all with "eye trajectory lines drawn in paint" and the resulting ragequit alone. My sides.

This whole thing reminded me (and seemingly other people) of this ordeal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB6TiRJNI-Q

People getting banned for seemingly no reason as well, always a classic. Never change Gaf.
 
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