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WSJ: Sony Plans New PlayStation for Graphics-Heavy Games

O

Ogni-XR21

Member
ShinUltramanJ said:
This is the mindset I'm seeing. Nobody is forcing you to upgrade. Sit this one out, and buy the next one. If the new plan is to continuously upgrade the hardware, there's no need to jump on the first one.

Best of all its all going to be compatible. Your games won't be obsolete.
Click to expand...

This is what people need to realize. You can just wait out one generation and buy the next one. As long as I can play all the games until then on my current PS4 I'm in no rush to upgrade.

DryvBy said:
I keep seeing this and who is actually paying full price for a phone? I haven't yet paid for a phone without it being on a plan. Since about 2002, I've had a total of 4 phones. I don't even know anyone that does that.
Click to expand...

Like I said above, what's different here? So in 14 years you bought a new phone every 3-4 years. If a console costs $500 you could finance this for $15 in 3 years and have the same upgrade frequency as you do with your phone.
 
S

Scrotum Phillips

Member
GreySquirrel said:
As someone who has pre ordered PSVR my main concern is if 4.5 will be required to at least get the optimal experience. It will be either the one or the other for me. Or forget the whole thing and get a new graphics card and Oculus/Vive because the cost would be approaching that.

Also, people really need to stop with the phone comparisons. The average gamer spends no where near as much time on their console as the average person uses their phone throughout the day.
Click to expand...

Is there any piece of technology these days that keeps technological advances basically stagnant like consoles does (did?)for 5+ years? Like, new TV's, cars, phones, computers, etc. all come out all the time and largely the older models aren't obsolete (just as the "base" PS4 won't be).

It's all dependent if the cost to upgrade makes sense for you. Sony isn't making you spend the money, but now it's an option for those that wish to.
 
A

AstroNut325

Member
Ogni-XR21 said:
This is what people need to realize. You can just wait out one generation and buy the next one. As long as I can play all the games until then on my current PS4 I'm in no rush to upgrade.
Click to expand...
Yup. I'm not seeing any downside as long as the software library remains compatible for at least 3-4 more years with the OG PS4. I say this as someone that got a PS4 4 months ago.

Lonely1 said:
Phones are fashion items. Stop that analogy, it doesn't work.
Click to expand...
It does work because phones offer technology at a rapidly evolving pace. And everything else is iterative. Your car, your microwave, your dishwasher, your camera, and anything and everything tech. There are new models released yearly for most of these products. It doesn't preclude you from enjoying what you purchased for many years. If someone wants the extra features and capabilities, they have the option to upgrade.
 
J

jeffram

Member
Mister Megative said:
Sure. They say it's a hardware bump. NOWHERE does it say "get ready to play UC4 in delicious 60fps!" Because that. Will. Not. Happen. A "hardware bump" in relation to VR or a 4k bluray player and an extra HDMI port is far, far, far, FAR more likely. Right off the bat: we all know there's literally no possibility of Sony sticking affordable 4K gaming that won't light your home on fire in a remotely affordable console. Ain't happening. You know it. I know it. Now, Sony has been riding on a wave of consumer goodwill since e3 2013, and it shows in their decisive market leadership. Sony isn't doing anything that could even remotely be conceived as leaving their userbase in the dust, especially so early (and it IS early). On top of that, devs are having a time of it as it is getting games out to meet deadlines. Look how many times UC4 was delayed. Look at TLG. The Order was delayed 4 months. Deus Ex was delayed 6 months. The Witcher? Batman? All massively delayed. Hell, Dark Souls 3 was delayed. Devs won't be happy about the extra effort, money, and time needed to optimize everything for an additional platform with more juice. My prediction? This is a slimmed-down PS4 with a 4k bluray player and/or 4k resolution support for media, and/or greater functionality and fidelity for PSVR. It will not play your actual PS4 games any noticeably better or worse than the PS4 you already own.

I swear, this thread has reached epic levels of conjecture.
Click to expand...
You're right, It's unlikely they will hit native 4K gaming. But that may not stop them from marketing it as 4K if they have higher than 1080 support. We know that the efficiency gains are 2-2.5x moving to 14nms. If they only get 2x efficiency, that's good enough to render PS4 1080P games at 1920x2160. That's going to look much better on UHD or HD screens, and they can upses that an market is as 4K.
 
K

krang

Member
Surely the people who will have the most reason to be annoyed will be the PS4.5 owners who can't play PS5 games 3 years later. Not the existing PS4 owners.
 
G

gelf

Member
krang said:
Surely the people who will have the most reason to be annoyed will be the PS4.5 owners who can't play PS5 games 3 years later. Not the existing PS4 owners.
Click to expand...
Either that or it will be PS5 owners annoyed that they are only getting cross gen games aimed at a baseline of the 4.5. Which is how I think it should be done if this model is to be used.
 
J

jeffram

Member
krang said:
Surely the people who will have the most reason to be annoyed will be the PS4.5 owners who can't play PS5 games 3 years later. Not the existing PS4 owners.
Click to expand...
If I were to bet, if this comes out as described, that the PS4.5 is supported throughout the PS5 launch cycle, until the PS5.5 comes out.

This would allow them to support each console for 6 years after releases, and always have 2 tiers of consoles supported. PS4 and PS4.5 now, PS4.5 and PS5 on PS5 release, PS5 and PS5.5 on PS5.5 release.

Consumers will be able to choose when to jump in, and know that their platform will be supported. Developers/publishers will know they have the previous console install base and the new console install base to count on. We already have cross-gen, so why not put structure around it.

It's a nice thought to have the PS5 come out with exclusive content, but it doesn't make sense for most publishers to do that, and they will continue to not do that.
 
D

davitpr

Member
Mister Megative said:
Sure. They say it's a hardware bump. NOWHERE does it say "get ready to play UC4 in delicious 60fps!" Because that. Will. Not. Happen. A "hardware bump" in relation to VR or a 4k bluray player and an extra HDMI port is far, far, far, FAR more likely. Right off the bat: we all know there's literally no possibility of Sony sticking affordable 4K gaming that won't light your home on fire in a remotely affordable console. Ain't happening. You know it. I know it. Now, Sony has been riding on a wave of consumer goodwill since e3 2013, and it shows in their decisive market leadership. Sony isn't doing anything that could even remotely be conceived as leaving their userbase in the dust, especially so early (and it IS early). On top of that, devs are having a time of it as it is getting games out to meet deadlines. Look how many times UC4 was delayed. Look at TLG. The Order was delayed 4 months. Deus Ex was delayed 6 months. The Witcher? Batman? All massively delayed. Hell, Dark Souls 3 was delayed. Devs won't be happy about the extra effort, money, and time needed to optimize everything for an additional platform with more juice. My prediction? This is a slimmed-down PS4 with a 4k bluray player and/or 4k resolution support for media, and/or greater functionality and fidelity for PSVR. It will not play your actual PS4 games any noticeably better or worse than the PS4 you already own.

I swear, this thread has reached epic levels of conjecture.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with you. It's simple math people! Doesn't take anything more than simple math to figure out what Sony is doing.
 
PuppetMaster

PuppetMaster

Member
Millennials may not undetstand this. But many of us were living life just fine without a mobile phone!! Many had multiple consoles prior to the late 90s when mobile phones took off. Now phones are more important?

I personally would rather live in a world with no phones than no video game consoles.

And this may be shocking we still had friends and social lives without mobile phones. Perhaps even higher quality friends than what people have to do with now.
 
K

Kill3r7

Member
krang said:
Surely the people who will have the most reason to be annoyed will be the PS4.5 owners who can't play PS5 games 3 years later. Not the existing PS4 owners.
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't they? Presumably the early releases will be cross gen. I am sure they will come up with some cross gen promotions eg buy PS4 version and get PS5 version for free or pay an extra $10 to upgrade to PS5 version of games. Consoles are becoming more and more like PCs.
 
M

mitchlol

Member
Hell yeah !!! an updated PS4, yes please. I hope they can finally nail 1080p 60fps I'll happily shell out the money to have that kind of performance on my PS4.

Serious question though. If Sony brought out a console capable of 1080p 60fps for all current games in catalog... would they need to be updated to take advantage of the hardware? Or could it be like a PC where they just straight up run at 60fps? If developers have to go back an update their games to account for the bump in hardware I don't think I would bother getting a new console.... By the time developers get a handle on the new performance increase the generation will almost be over... Reminds me of the New 3DS....

See you in the 4K future peasants. /jk
 
L

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
AstroNut325 said:
Yup. I'm not seeing any downside as long as the software library remains compatible for at least 3-4 more years with the OG PS4. I say this as someone that got a PS4 4 months ago.


It does work because phones offer technology at a rapidly evolving pace. And everything else is iterative. Your car, your microwave, your dishwasher, your camera, and anything and everything tech. There are new models released yearly for most of these products. It doesn't preclude you from enjoying what you purchased for many years. If someone wants the extra features and capabilities, they have the option to upgrade.
Click to expand...

Most people use the new phone for exactly the same purposes as the last phone with tasks where the technological improvements are imperceptible. They just want the latest for status symbol.

El_Chino said:
That's an expensive fashion item to be upgrading constantly.
Click to expand...

That's how fashion works...
 
E

El_Chino

Member
Lonely1 said:
Most people use the new phone for exactly the same purposes as the last phone with tasks where the technological improvements are imperceptible. They just want the latest for status symbol.



That's how fashion works...
Click to expand...

So does PC gaming and that seems to be doing quite well.

You're underestimating the enthusiasm of console gamers to drop another $400 for the latest and greatest in console hardware.
 
O

Ol No Bones

Banned
PuppetMaster said:
Millennials may not undetstand this. But many of us were living life just fine without a mobile phone!! Many had multiple consoles prior to the late 90s when mobile phones took off. Now phones are more important?

I personally would rather live in a world with no phones than no video game consoles.

And this may be shocking we still had friends and social lives without mobile phones. Perhaps even higher quality friends than what people have to do with now.
Click to expand...
Telecommunication is far more important to everyday life and the market for such devices is far larger in scope. The smartphone is simply a far more advanced phone and phones did exist in the 90s. Your reasoning just doesn't make sense.
 
O

Ol No Bones

Banned
Bring on these new devices and give people a choice. I'm all for it. Just don't even think about abandoning prior hardware SKUs until it is completely unfeasable to support them.
 
THE:MILKMAN

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Zoetis said:
If you have a 4k tv you should be happy, if not don't complain your ps4 will be just fine.
Click to expand...

So it is a slim with the media section of the GPU upgraded to 4k standards and HDMI 2 on the back?

I just don't understand all the game outlets specifically stating more power.....
 
DryvBy

DryvBy

Member
jeffram said:
So what you're saying is. Sony tried to tell developers that a slim PS4 was coming out, and ALL of them got it wrong and told their sources (Kotaku, Eurogamer, The Know, WSJ) that a more powerful PS4 was coming out at a higher price point. All of them.
Click to expand...

Exactly how much more power does it have? Did any of them say how much?
 
I

-ImaginaryInsider

Member
Lonely1 said:
Phones are fashion items. Stop that analogy, it doesn't work.
Click to expand...

We have a yearly upgrade culture that expands well outside of just phones.

At no point is anyone really saying it's a 1 to 1 comparison anyway, but it does point to an overall increase in consumer acceptance of tech device interations, so the comparison holds a bit more weight than bringing up the Sega 32x, which plenty of people have done in this thread.
 
K

Kralamoonard

Member
thuway said:
I really do doubt this thing launches this Fall. There is no way it would be a good idea to avoid waiting just another year and incorporate all the goodness that comes its way. Than again- what do we know.
Click to expand...

Wait, I'm confused on what you're trying to say here lol. Would they wait a year or not?
 
PuppetMaster

PuppetMaster

Member
Ol No Bones said:
Telecommunication is far more important to everyday life and the market for such devices is far larger in scope. The smartphone is simply a far more advanced phone and phones did exist in the 90s. Your reasoning just doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...

Telecommunication is NOT important to everyday life.

Neither are important to everyday life. They are both diversions from actual life.

My point was video games have been around longer and that I value them more as a diversion.
 
P

potatohead

Member
jeffram said:
So what you're saying is. Sony tried to tell developers that a slim PS4 was coming out, and ALL of them got it wrong and told their sources (Kotaku, Eurogamer, The Know, WSJ) that a more powerful PS4 was coming out at a higher price point. All of them.
Click to expand...

It's really not impossible.

If one source get it's wrong (even intentionally for hits OR unintentionally) and then other websites regurgitate it...

Then yea that can happen. It's not that uncommon for media to get a simple story completely backwards.

Not saying I think it is one way or another, just that we don't know until the cat is out of the bag.
PuppetMaster said:
Telecommunication is NOT important to everyday life.

Neither are important to everyday life. They are both diversions from actual life.

My point was video games have been around longer and that I value them more as a diversion.
Click to expand...
This anecdote about yourself, as you know it is, has zero relevance to how other people treat their phones.

Phone culture and phones are not important to you, sure, no one really cares to dispute that. But you have to be completely ignorant to say cell phone culture is not deeply pervasive in modern society.

If you are really that old to have owned multiple consoles before the late 90s then you should know better than to think this.
 
T

TyrantII

Member
DryvBy said:
Sadly. They have no idea what's going on in the PC market or how much something like that would cost to just get 30fps.
Click to expand...

Yup, these threads are getting Loony.

PS4K isn't going to run games 1080P60 locked either. Whens the last time a console did that at a fixed resolution.

I just seems wildy apparent to me that PS4K is Sonys AAA VR box. I mean, did we really expect SW Battlefront VR to hold a locked 60FPS on consoles?

PS4K, the full VR experience.
 
P

potatohead

Member
Herb Alpert said:
Do people really expect to get a console that will run native 4K games?
Click to expand...

Definitely not 4K for modern PS4 games.

But 1440p is not an impossibility if this upgrade shenanigans actually happens. I still don't think it will though.

1440p upscaled to 4k would not be that bad, and still a pretty big improvement over upscaled 900p/1080p.
 
L

Lady Gaia

Member
THE:MILKMAN said:
I just don't understand all the game outlets specifically stating more power.....
Click to expand...

More to the point, if developers didn't need to plan to take advantage of the hardware in some fashion there would be no need to disclose them at GDC before announcing the product to the public. It's clear there's something they can do to make use of the hardware. Exact details will have to await a more explicit leak or an announcement.

I'm confidence that Sony is aware of the concern and will take it into account when setting the rules for certifying games for the expanded multi-console platform. It's also obvious that it won't satisfy everyone here, because some people are strangely wedded simultaneously to wanting the latest, greatest console hardware and also wanting to ensure that it never changes again until they're sufficiently bored with it. Or something.

I get wanting to have an existing purchase be a viable console that can play compelling titles for years to come. I think Sony would be foolish to do anything that fails to deliver on that implied promise. I also understand why they'd want to explore a new approach that eliminates the risky, expensive process of launching a completely new, incompatible console every 5-6 years and having to build developer expertise from scratch each time.

This could be a win for all of us, if played right.
 
Venuspower

Venuspower

Member
Herb Alpert said:
Do people really expect to get a console that will run native 4K games?
Click to expand...

Not all of them. But some. They jumped on the hype train right after the rumors appear, that there is a "PS4K" in development.

And at the end, when Sony announce a PS4 which supports UHD Blu Rays and maybe(!!!) upscaling games to 4k these people will be sad and a shitstrom will break out, why Sony didn't give more power to the "new" PS4.

bud said:
isn't it already capable of that?
Click to expand...

No. PS4 doesn't even support HDCP 2.2 which is a requirement. Also HDR and so an are not supported. Which should be done by 4k player. But I don't know if there is any chance that they can "patch" it. But I don't think so.

PLASTICA-MAN said:
I didn't see UHD Bluray movies. Did they start selling them?
Click to expand...

For example: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01A7Q6E2Y/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Fun Fact: Many of the current 4K Blu Rays aren't even real 4K. Only upscaled (and if you are lucky they added HDR at least).
 
I

-ImaginaryInsider

Member
I wonder how many more websites and insiders need to comment on this before people stop posting "Lol, I'm telling you guys it's just a slim with 4k playback".

We can debate the nature of the upgraded specs all day long, but the chances of this just being some kind of slim revision misreported is getting pretty low.
 
THE:MILKMAN

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Herb Alpert said:
Do people really expect to get a console that will run native 4K games?
Click to expand...

I like to think I have an idea what a console would need for medium settings 4K.

From what the game press/WSJ have stated PS4K will be is the the worst possible neither here nor there scenario IMO. It should either be a media upgraded slim or a balls out 14nm Zen/Polaris generation reset. This in-between crap will piss both sides of the argument off.
 
J

jelly

Member
What is the timing of new PC innovations, is it partly hope for this year but mostly next year?

Wouldn't it be silly to jump the gun before those leaps. I wonder if Microsoft will wait for those at cheaper prices next year while they get their Windows 10 house in order.
 
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