-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
WSJ: Sony Plans New PlayStation for Graphics-Heavy Games
- Thread starter GameSeeker
- Start date
potatohead
Member
If Sony can find a way to get Resogun and Dead Nation on the Vita at 540p30 then I'm sure they could find a way to run those at 4k on a double or triple powered PS4K system.
Still don't think it's coming though.
Still don't think it's coming though.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
They're just citing the Wall Street Journal article.
Mister Megative
Banned
Cool. You seem like you have some sick insider info, considering no one has said "yup, your disc-based, non-VR PS4 games will look, run, and play better on this brand new PS4 we're launching." Beyond the numerous points about what it realistically would take from a time and money standpoint we've already raised, and the resulting shitstorm of negative consumer backlash, all we know is there's gonna be more power to do SOMEthing. But I wanna hear it from the horse's mouth. Gimme dem scoopz bruh.
I agree, but for at least Kotaku and Eurogamer, they confirmed multiple sources, and I believe in their journalistic integrity that they would have traced the rumours back to reliable sources with first hand knowledge.
Ol No Bones
Banned
This is just silly. In the 21st century phones are absolutely important to how we live our lives. I'm sure you would love to wait for the the pony express to arrive with letters from loved ones as long as you have a Super Nintendo but realistically many whole industries and and the very way we live on a fundamental level is affected by phones. Listen I'm for more console hardware (if done right) but your comments about phones is stupid. Ok. Can you live without phones? Sure. Yes mankind only needs food, water and shelter for its continued existence. I grant you that if that's what you are saying.
Ol No Bones
Banned
Polaris is this year and we have no idea how long Sony and Microsoft have worked with AMD on these chips. HBM2 next year by all accounts but honesty that is probably overkill for the kind of chips I suspect MS and Sony are intending. So they could feasibly have advanced tech this year. I'm not saying they will but it's possible.
So you expect there to be a point when there are PS4.5 games that don't work on a PS4? Lol, great way to split a userbase and confuse the consumer.
Phones are important. Phones that have faster and faster processors to play games and have many apps open without slowing down are not, though.
Same thing happens on phones, and certain games on New 3DS compared to 3DS.
Stealth_Cobra
Member
I don't like this one bit.
PS4 is what, 2 years old and a half old , and the already taking steps towards retiring it ? What happened to ten years life cycles for consoles ? What kind of insult is this ? Do they really expect consumers to like this ?
Do they expect their 39 Million existing userbase to be happy to be forced to buy another console when they paid 399$ two years ago and barely got their money's worth in terms of exclusives ? The PS4 is only starting to get a confortable user base, it's still in the process of building a library of exclusive killer app ... Heck, I'll be the first one to admit the game library on PS4 has been lacking when it comes to exclusive, heck, I'd say asides from Bloodborne, it's been pretty much all games I could have played on my PC...
And now, two years into the generation, they want to render my 400$ purchase obsolete. Why ? Because they want to push VR right now ? Because they want to push for 4K gaming ? Because they fear the nintendo NX will have better hadware ? I don't get it. PS4 is selling well, it's the dominant platform this generation, why risk losing their first place by splitting their userbase and pissing off existing fans ?
First of all, it's not the consumer's fault if they didn't future prooof the PS4... They knew VR and 4k was coming, yet they release a 400 bucks console that was decent, but not cutting edge when it comes to hardware two years ago . They could have delayed the launch of the PS4, or made it better in terms of hardware in the first place if they felt like it would be outclassed too soon... But they didn't...
Hence now they should have to last ten years with said hardware. PS3 had the complex cell processor precisely because it could be further tapped down the road, giving the console long term longevity. PS4 used off the shelve component and was underclassed compared to modern PC when it launched, it was a choice they made and they chose to stick with it...
Back to the VR angle. It's already a pretty niche market, and most people that have experience with Sony know they have a terrible track record of releasing new optional hardware and giving it proper support. How many eye toy games were made ? How many PS Move games are avialable ? How many games used the PS4 camera ? How about PS Go and PS Vita ? PS TV ?
My point being, I don't trust the Sony VR headset to be supported by Sony properly, and I sure as hell won't buy new hardware for a gimmick that might not get much support in the long run. It's already a stretch to think of buying the headset alone, but buying the headset + new hardware is asking for failure. I'd much rather take my chance on PC VR, when I know at the very least fans will be able to mod existing games for VR support, ensuring proper content will be flowing.
As for the PS4.5 being an incremental upgrade that plays exisitng PS4 games with better graphics and framerate, I still find it insulting if it's the case. Rewarding your early adopters who spent 400 bucks at launch by making them play the inferior port of 4k games for most of the generation is bad. I'm already pretty insulted that bloodborne has framerate drops , that Warframe runs choppy on PS4, now you're telling me that all future PS4 titles will be downgraded ports of games designed from superior hardware, and that I'll probably have to pay 500+ bucks down the road if I want to play the games at their full potential. What killed Sega was their constant release of crappy upgrades ... 32X, then sega cd, then sega saturn, then sega dreamcast, all in a very short lifespan...
Guess what Sony, if you truly release this so called PS4.5, you just lost a loyal customer. I have a kick ass gaming PC that can run all multiplatform games much better than what your hardware can do, I'll get oculus or vive when I want VR, and I'll save 60 bucks a year off your PS+ subscription by going PC exclusive. It's insulting to think I paid 200 bucks a year for hardware + a 60 bucks subscription fee. PS4 games are also much more expensive than PC titles too, so I litterally see no reasons to own a Sony console anymore if you can't guarantee me that the hardware I buy two years ago will last more than two years. No way, you just lost a customer.
and there's no reason why I should bother paying for a PS+ yearly suscription, pay more for my games since
PS4 is what, 2 years old and a half old , and the already taking steps towards retiring it ? What happened to ten years life cycles for consoles ? What kind of insult is this ? Do they really expect consumers to like this ?
Do they expect their 39 Million existing userbase to be happy to be forced to buy another console when they paid 399$ two years ago and barely got their money's worth in terms of exclusives ? The PS4 is only starting to get a confortable user base, it's still in the process of building a library of exclusive killer app ... Heck, I'll be the first one to admit the game library on PS4 has been lacking when it comes to exclusive, heck, I'd say asides from Bloodborne, it's been pretty much all games I could have played on my PC...
And now, two years into the generation, they want to render my 400$ purchase obsolete. Why ? Because they want to push VR right now ? Because they want to push for 4K gaming ? Because they fear the nintendo NX will have better hadware ? I don't get it. PS4 is selling well, it's the dominant platform this generation, why risk losing their first place by splitting their userbase and pissing off existing fans ?
First of all, it's not the consumer's fault if they didn't future prooof the PS4... They knew VR and 4k was coming, yet they release a 400 bucks console that was decent, but not cutting edge when it comes to hardware two years ago . They could have delayed the launch of the PS4, or made it better in terms of hardware in the first place if they felt like it would be outclassed too soon... But they didn't...
Hence now they should have to last ten years with said hardware. PS3 had the complex cell processor precisely because it could be further tapped down the road, giving the console long term longevity. PS4 used off the shelve component and was underclassed compared to modern PC when it launched, it was a choice they made and they chose to stick with it...
Back to the VR angle. It's already a pretty niche market, and most people that have experience with Sony know they have a terrible track record of releasing new optional hardware and giving it proper support. How many eye toy games were made ? How many PS Move games are avialable ? How many games used the PS4 camera ? How about PS Go and PS Vita ? PS TV ?
My point being, I don't trust the Sony VR headset to be supported by Sony properly, and I sure as hell won't buy new hardware for a gimmick that might not get much support in the long run. It's already a stretch to think of buying the headset alone, but buying the headset + new hardware is asking for failure. I'd much rather take my chance on PC VR, when I know at the very least fans will be able to mod existing games for VR support, ensuring proper content will be flowing.
As for the PS4.5 being an incremental upgrade that plays exisitng PS4 games with better graphics and framerate, I still find it insulting if it's the case. Rewarding your early adopters who spent 400 bucks at launch by making them play the inferior port of 4k games for most of the generation is bad. I'm already pretty insulted that bloodborne has framerate drops , that Warframe runs choppy on PS4, now you're telling me that all future PS4 titles will be downgraded ports of games designed from superior hardware, and that I'll probably have to pay 500+ bucks down the road if I want to play the games at their full potential. What killed Sega was their constant release of crappy upgrades ... 32X, then sega cd, then sega saturn, then sega dreamcast, all in a very short lifespan...
Guess what Sony, if you truly release this so called PS4.5, you just lost a loyal customer. I have a kick ass gaming PC that can run all multiplatform games much better than what your hardware can do, I'll get oculus or vive when I want VR, and I'll save 60 bucks a year off your PS+ subscription by going PC exclusive. It's insulting to think I paid 200 bucks a year for hardware + a 60 bucks subscription fee. PS4 games are also much more expensive than PC titles too, so I litterally see no reasons to own a Sony console anymore if you can't guarantee me that the hardware I buy two years ago will last more than two years. No way, you just lost a customer.
and there's no reason why I should bother paying for a PS+ yearly suscription, pay more for my games since
Ol No Bones
Banned
Agreed. I'm just responding to someone that (if I understand correctly) is saying that Game consoles are more important than phones in general.
Great post!
And for the bolded part is very important imo. I remember some news a while ago that many publishers were very unsure if the new generation of consoles would catch on and scaled down production accordingly. Which resulted in no games available in the lauch window of the current gen. With steady updates and keeping customers in the ecosystem it's not a complete restart each generation and this would end up in a much more steady flow of software.
LordOfChaos
Member
Because their event for it is supposedly right around the corner? Could just leave the hype for then and then say what it is.
That poster meant for him, I grew up in the 80's/90's and I would rather not have smart phones than consoles too.
I don't recall phone publishers completely dropping at one point in time the iPhone 5 for example, and then only making games for the 5S. It's not the same thing at all.
Ol No Bones
Banned
Yeah but how many revisions before supporting a console isn't feasible? 3 or 4? I mean it's not like IPhone 4 and 5 are not supported yet and we have the 7 coming in the near future. I guess the big question is how well they pull this off. If a console is well supported for the better part of a decade is that really much different than a conventional console cycle?
Ol No Bones
Banned
Perhaps I feel similarly if I had to choose but that's not really the point of all this.
Ok, sure.
I do think the comparison is valid, though. Especially annual smartphone iterations which are completely unnecessary, and yet people buy them.
Ol No Bones
Banned
Game consoles are unnecessary too. What point are people trying to make by saying this?
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
If it is so powerful, Sony could enable emulation on it and thus backward compatibility for PS3/PS2/PS1 games. But that will never happen because Sony wants to sell PS2 games again digitally, PS3 remastered games and PS Now subscriptions. What happened to the patent Sony filled that can run PS2 games on disk and look for the game code within the disk and search for event triggers which can unlock hypothetical trophies? I hoep the new disk reader of this PS4 can allow this.
Here I found one of the links: http://wegotthiscovered.com/gaming/sony-patents-method-adding-trophy-support-psone-ps2-games/
Here I found one of the links: http://wegotthiscovered.com/gaming/sony-patents-method-adding-trophy-support-psone-ps2-games/
So if this is more than just UHD blu-ray playback and actually includes gaming improvements for VR, how do they spin that for people who already pre-ordered the PSVR? I personally have zero interest in VR right now but for people that already pre-ordering, aren't they going to feel totally shafted here?
"Thanks for pre-ordering the PSVR. Oh, by the way, if you want to play the REALLY good upcoming VR games, you're also going to have to buy this new PS4."
If VR is supposed to have a "minimum 60 fps", I assume this system will just boost performance and totally make certain games "PS4K exclusive"??
Like others have mentioned, this seems like a 3DS -> n3DS upgrade and that's going to frustrate a ton of people. If there are significant upgrades to non-VR games I might consider it if there is a good trade-in/upgrade program in stores. Like if it's the difference between playing 2017 games at 30fps vs 60fps. But that would probably be it for me and consoles. It would suck to lose out on great exclusive series like MLB The Show but at that point, I'd rather just fully stick with PC gaming.
"Thanks for pre-ordering the PSVR. Oh, by the way, if you want to play the REALLY good upcoming VR games, you're also going to have to buy this new PS4."
If VR is supposed to have a "minimum 60 fps", I assume this system will just boost performance and totally make certain games "PS4K exclusive"??
Like others have mentioned, this seems like a 3DS -> n3DS upgrade and that's going to frustrate a ton of people. If there are significant upgrades to non-VR games I might consider it if there is a good trade-in/upgrade program in stores. Like if it's the difference between playing 2017 games at 30fps vs 60fps. But that would probably be it for me and consoles. It would suck to lose out on great exclusive series like MLB The Show but at that point, I'd rather just fully stick with PC gaming.
problem is, if they announce this console and do not give too much in the way of details or price it will kill the sales of the ps4 lite because people will hold off
And also because part of the rumor is true: They will release a PS4 with 4K capabilities.
dragonfart28
Banned
I think this can work.
They just have to keep the polygonal output and framerate the same as PS4, just increase the resolution.
They just have to keep the polygonal output and framerate the same as PS4, just increase the resolution.
ninjablade
Banned
not gonna happen, 360/ps3 are damn near ancient are still supported even after consoles that are 10x more powerful were released, ps4.5 is looking to be 2x powerful at best, i don't see why all ps4.5 won't run on ps4, heck they could get even go 720p worst case scenario.
That's exactly it. I'm saying that the smartphone upgrade comparison is valid.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
You still don't have to worry about upgrading for several years. The box you bought is still going to offer the same experience regardless of a fancier version existing.
The upside is the PlayStation you eventually buy will run your old games better. That's a great thing!
Totally okay with all you've said - provided this is communicated on the front end. People, like myself, bought a ps4 assuming it'd be the lead, optimized box for all ps4 games this whole cycle. No longer the case.
As long as expectations are managed, then such a system works.
ninjablade
Banned
Exactly - and those very games are already kind of rough on the ps4.0. How do you think these games will run on the ps4.0 now that there's a ps4.5 sku available?
jimbobsmells
Member
If this just ends up being a PS4 with a 4K capable blu ray player and upscaler are people going to be mad or relieved?
Buba Big Guns
Banned
I don't really understand why people wouldn't want this.
Better hardware for those who want it, or just use the og ps4 for those who don't. Will play the same games.
Seems like a win win.
Better hardware for those who want it, or just use the og ps4 for those who don't. Will play the same games.
Seems like a win win.
ninjablade
Banned
worst case scenerio, 720p, 900p in single player on ps4. maybe some games will be 30fps or 60fps, depending what developers wanna do, uncharted 4 for sure would 60fps on the new ps4, and so would drive club with better AA, aside from BB most ps4 exclusives have had solid performance. most developers will target ps4 specs cause there will be 50 million sold by the time ps4.5 come out.
Ol No Bones
Banned
Oh ok. I agree.
What happens when the ps4.5 version of the game is at 30fps though? Can totally see a world where the ps4.0 versions flat out suck, especially toward the end of this cycle.
Yes, in this scenario of new hardware being introduced every 3 years, with 6 year support, the older hardware loses support before the newer hardware.
The PS4.5 is obviously not going to be called the PS4.5. Typical console naming conventions are out the window with this new hardware anyways, The new software would not be labeled as a PS4 game.
wapplew
Member
So release backward compatible same architecture PS5 at year 5 or 6 like a traditional generation used to be.
They can achieve the same goal without having a mid gen hardware and a potential back fire.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
My worry is it is a slim with 4K media upgrades, but with extra GPU power to be used exclusively (at least initially) for VR.
So I would like the media upgrades but won't pay for a VR GPU boost to get it (as an example).
Scrotum Phillips
Member
LordOfChaos
Member
Outputing at 4K while keeping textures designed for 1080p or lower may not look great. Maybe not horrible, but I'm guessing likely similar to how TV-side upscaling would look since 4K TVs all have pretty good upscalers.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
We have the original Kotaku article pointing to some kind upgraded specs tied to gaming.
We have "verified insider" Zoetis making comments about upgraded specs for gaming purposes. He still hasn't been banned after talking with a mod.
We had another guy in that same thread mention per a dinner conversation with industry reps the console refresh was tied specifically to "software applications".
We have a Eurogamer article pointing to some kind of upgraded specs tied to gaming.
We have a WSJ article (with a pretty great track record with rumors) pointing to some kind of upgraded specs tied to gaming.
Discounting Kotaku, discounting GAF "insiders", the remaining articles continues to point to something more than a plain jane slim update. I'm not saying it's a true 4k gaming upgrade, a Polaris APU, or guaranteed 1080p at 60fps, but no leaks or articles past some posters in here have pointed to this being just a slim.
The negative consumer shitstorm/backlash seems relegated mostly to this thread, and even in here plenty of folks still seem OK it.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
robertsan21
Member
Man if this new PS4 is as good as todays top PCs then Im in. if its just marginally better, I wont pick it up.
ninjablade
Banned
joecanada
Member
I think they are using the old "everyone needs a phone" and also that phones are on pay as you go type contracts.
which doesn't really mean much to be honest. As other people pointed out, you don't "need" a new phone every year but people will buy every single iphone for example.
and as for subsidized phone plans, you end up paying more. Whether or not you actually realize it makes no difference, you are still paying 500-600 for your phone one way or another. If you wanted to finance your ps4.5 put it on a credit card, otherwise stick with your ps4 just like I stuck with my Sony Xperia Z1 (when I believe the Z3 or even 4 are out now). I have no desire to buy a new phone.
Mostly it's just the icecream.gif bitterness.. otherwise it makes no difference if you don't have the latest shiny toy.... you buy it if you want it, otherwise you don't.
I severely doubt you will be picking it up then. How could it be a top PC? They aren't going to start selling 800 dollar PS4.5 suddenly. It will just be like a PS slim , slight upgrades maybe, all the people who ditch their old consoles for new colored ones or slim models will be equally excited to pick this up, for a small boost in performance.... for most people it won't matter or you could trade in your ps4... there will be a healthy market for those which is also good.
So this is what you want out of our PS5? to play PS4 games? that's the optimal solution to making PS5 software development financially feasible?
Even with the new fab process, wouldn't top of the line still be prohibitively expensive? I guess a better question would be: what do you mean by "top PC"?
wapplew
Member
I only mention backward competible.