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WSJ: Sony Plans New PlayStation for Graphics-Heavy Games
- Thread starter GameSeeker
- Start date
ViridianHues
Banned
I hope it's true. I read a point someone made that I agreed with, might have been another thread, but they were saying this is much safer than generations. An entire new generation is very risky for developers. No one knows if it could flop and no one wants to invest a lot of money making a game for a console that might fail. This happened with this generation and is why games just started to really pick up last year.
This way, there will be no hard jumps. It will be a sliding scale. Your console will be forward compatible until a certain point (about 5 years or so would be ideal). Your new consoles *should* be backwards compatible all the way to the start of this process. This also means that there won't be such a huge gap in power to account for, which caused problems for multiplats being on PS4/Xbone AND PS3/360. The gap between iterations will be smaller and easier to develop for.
If anything, past generations have fractured the userbase much more, considering backwards compatibility has been so rare.
This way, there will be no hard jumps. It will be a sliding scale. Your console will be forward compatible until a certain point (about 5 years or so would be ideal). Your new consoles *should* be backwards compatible all the way to the start of this process. This also means that there won't be such a huge gap in power to account for, which caused problems for multiplats being on PS4/Xbone AND PS3/360. The gap between iterations will be smaller and easier to develop for.
If anything, past generations have fractured the userbase much more, considering backwards compatibility has been so rare.
QuantumZebra
Member
Seeing as how I shelled out for the Star Wars LE PS4 (Battlefront) and gave my old PS4 to my wife, I can't see myself buying 2 more PS4s unless there is some massive jump in performance and a big limitation in games able to be played.... and if that is the case I'm not gonna be happy.
I think this is a year too soon, but time will tell.
I think this is a year too soon, but time will tell.
Caayn
Member
Then why even engage in the discussion on ease and cost if you resort to this?
One of your favorites words 'lol' certainly seems at place here.
Which wouldn't surprise me if it becomes a Windows with a Xbox mode sort of machine.
Art Vandilay
Member
If Sony didn't have anything to counter it with then hell yeah, sales momentum would most definitely take a hit. I'm not even going to bother touching on your exclusives argument/argument?
RobFox64tm
Member
Oh, we aren't allowed to express opinions here?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Cost comparison is irrelevant, and just another, "why don't you just game on the PC, bruh" derailing argument.
That is why. El Oh El
Mediking
Member
Maybe not because apparently the future PS4.5 owners are huge tech junkies so they'll prolly jump to PS5 without crying when that happens.
I simply meant we have a difference of opinions..
Art Vandilay
Member
Yeah, valid point. Didn't they sell like 30 units in Japan or something?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Well, just got back from Best Buy. Got a nice Sony XBR 4K for $600 and some change at over $300 off due to sale and 'open box'. Was never powered on, it was opened just to give someone stand screws his did not come with. And they even opened another to give me the screws/brackets.
Ready for this new one (if/when it happens), since I was going to upgrade the launch unit to a slim or Uncharted 4 unit anyways. Like a lot of people do. Bought the Uncharted controller instead. That sexy blue/grey.
Ready for this new one (if/when it happens), since I was going to upgrade the launch unit to a slim or Uncharted 4 unit anyways. Like a lot of people do. Bought the Uncharted controller instead. That sexy blue/grey.
Which happen to be the two largest gaming markets. It'd be a bad idea to ignore what's happening in them.
And I think it's fine.
Just like on PC, the only "fragmentation" would be between those who have the disposable income and desire to get something new about every 3 years, whereas many (most?) will probably be perfectly happy to wait 6 years ish for the "big step up".
#shrug
As long as Sony does not make the mistake of making devices and/or games exclusive to the mid gen refresh (which would then truly fragment the userbase and have a severe backlash), there shouldn't be a problem I think.
wapplew
Member
A price drop could do the job just fine, maybe a slim model with 4K output support. $299 or $249 vs whatever Xbox 1.5 going to cost.
Very easy choice for casual at this point.
Art Vandilay
Member
Haha that's odd they just took the screws out of another box. I'm guessing they will constantly have an open box unit until they run out?
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
DLC had Klepek on and he thinks it would be a minor improvement with games all working on both ps4 and ps4k and that it would follow a iPhone plan of 4, then 4s, then 5 would bring about the big changes, then 5s. Difference being it would once every 3-4 years rather than yearly.
Worth listening to if anyone still feels this is a giant leap.
Worth listening to if anyone still feels this is a giant leap.
duhmetree
Member
I remember paying $599 for a Toshiba HDVD player.... that worked out well. So $599 is relative. Maybe this isn't meant to be targeted for the mass market. The closest example I could think of is how nVidia/AMD have their high end GPUs. Maybe Sony will be trying to compete with low-mid range PCs for VR?
The games that I play and that interest me are mostly exclusive to the PS4... I'd honestly pay $499-$599 for a true PS4K.
The games that I play and that interest me are mostly exclusive to the PS4... I'd honestly pay $499-$599 for a true PS4K.
Lister
Banned
Yep. I can see at most an OC on the CPU + GPU - mind you, that might go a long ways depending on how much they can squeeze out of the components.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Well what happened was, I got lucky. It was sold to me with them thinking they only gave a guy who ordered one off their website, screws it did not come with. So a $2 trip to Home Depot to save over $300 on top of saving $40 on extended warranty as well was plenty worth it.
I get home, it was missing the brackets. Called the store in the manager said they probably gave him the brackets by accident top and mislabeled it. Well that is what happened since the screw bag was taped to the bracket bag. So he gave me both and said they would label it accordingly next time with missing brackets too, lol. So it will not be endless.
Lister
Banned
I doubt this very much. PC gamers at that high end have invested in their PC's for reasons that have zero to do with Uncharted. Jumping into a closed paltform with hardware that is still not upgradable (so that you ahve to re-invest on a completely different set of hardware in 2 years vs upgrading say just a GPU for example), and will still be mi-range at best vs what you cna have on a PC, is not somehtign many of them are ready to do, I'd wager.
Art Vandilay
Member
Well that's badass. Congrats on the buy!
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Question for the GPU experts here....
Is the touted 2-2.5X perf/watt figures by Nvidia/AMD Pascal/Polaris anywhere near realistic and does the calculation include the 14nm die shrink?
Is the touted 2-2.5X perf/watt figures by Nvidia/AMD Pascal/Polaris anywhere near realistic and does the calculation include the 14nm die shrink?
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
5-6 tflops for $499 (l wish). Bring it on 
NowhereFaded
Member
What size tv?
Why would they build in the VR box if they are going to sell you the box with the headset anyways? Sure it's clearer, but that would lead to them eating to cost when they don't need to.
Wowfunhappy
Member
If if you get a super-expensive video card that costs more than the price of an entire PS4 (which, actually, isn't that hard to do), you're still getting a lot more processing power per dollar than if you'd also bought a new CPU, motherboard, RAM, etc.
Yes it does. Majority of the power savings are done by reducing the size of transistors.
Savage.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
That's interesting, not least has it puts a dent in what was going to be some napkin maths I was going to do! (read pipe dream!)
I thought Maxwell achieved/claimed 2X perf/watt against Kepler on the same 28nm process!?
There will be power gains by optimizing architecture, or by better binning, by majority of perf gains in this years transition will come from smaller transistors.
As or Kepler vs Maxwel.... Kepler was first 28nm architecture from Nvidia, and it had its issues. 4 years [and 3 redesigns] later, Maxwell was managed to extract much more from 28nm production process.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Pretty much what anyone who actually sat back and thought about it would of figured.
But no, its gonna be like PS3 ports of Cross gen titles..give me a break.
Reading throughout this thread, its obvious that peoples main concern isnt fragmentation or feeling the need to upgrade prematurely. These concerns are easily calmed by applying a tiny bit of common sense.
It boils down to people feeling like they arent the special snowflake they once was for buying launch hardware. Its painfully transparent too.
I'm not sure why so many have convinced themselves that this will fragment the userbase. If I understand correctly, all software developed for both versions of the PS4 will be backward/forward compatible. That's good for consumers in my opinion because you can choose to upgrade or not but not miss out on any games.
Really I hope this is an indication that the market will eventually yield my dream scenario of being able to buy any box and it has access to each of the major gaming ecosystems.
Really I hope this is an indication that the market will eventually yield my dream scenario of being able to buy any box and it has access to each of the major gaming ecosystems.
duhmetree
Member
Exactly. Or a sense of entitlement.
I'd wager to say it's a certain demographic as well.
HandsomeCharles
Member
I'm sorry, you are wrong. The PC is perhaps the single most fragmented platform that exists.
The load times you refer to are an example of fragmentation, as is any discrepancy in the user-experience between different hardware or software platforms.
For more information, I highly recommend you read this short article.
I don't know how I can make it any more simple for you. If you have one single piece of software running on two different systems, and the user experience is different in any way, that is fragmentation. Sometimes fragmentation is not an issue, but a lot of times it is (Such as in Hyrule Warriors) and that is why people should be concerned about the ramifications of having games consoles that whilst sharing an operating system, differ in hardware specifications.
I don't understand what the point of your argument is to be honest. People have already laid out simple examples as to why your concerns are not warranted. I mean some of you are seriously going on about game optimization like games aren't already coming out and not even hitting 30 fps. I'm sure you really don't need me to list examples because it's not that hard to come up with a list.
Even besides that you keep going on like devs don't already know how to work with different hardware that shares the same architecture. For some reason all of you just keep forgetting that the PC is the number one example of devs being able to do these things. PC games don't just magically run like crap because one person has a 980TI and the other has a 970. Ample evidence to support that this can be done easily. It really just looks like a bunch of people running around screaming the sky is falling for no reason.
You even have people crying about being early adopters like us early adopters didn't buy these weak systems 3 years ago. Even if you went by normal standards we'd be in a whole new generation in as little as 1-2 more years anyway.
Marty Chinn
Member
Yes, PCs are fragmented. It's one of the faults with PC gaming. How can one not admit that PC gaming is fragmented? It's the very reason you don't see high end GPUs being fully exploited in PC games.
RobFox64tm
Member
Fair enough.
The truth is we know too little about what Sony is planning with this. I feel that whether or not this new PS4 will have exclusive software/features, it's going to divide their user base. You mention Nintendo, and I can only assume you are talking about the New 3DS, which I feel is precedence enough as to why this is a bad idea.
If you're referring to NX, it's not the same because Wii U's user base is only about 12 million versus PS4's 36 million. Changing hardware makes sense for Nintendo, but PS4, as it is, still holds a lot of potential for Sony. They don't need an incriminate upgrade right now; they need to leverage the current user base with a consistent release schedule of high profile games. A PS4.5 will complicate that.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Polaris is said to be the successor of the Fury X.
http://wccftech.com/amd-shows-enthusiast-polaris-ces/
What can the Fury X do?
LordOfChaos
Member
The calculation includes 14nm and finfets - Fin Field Effect transistors AKA 3D transistors.
Remember we've been on 28nm for a long ass time, it came out in 2011 (!!!!!). Combine a new architecture with a large transistor shrink plus 3D transistors, and yeah I could believe double.
QuantumZebra
Member
I wouldn't fret. I highly doubt a 4K PS4 will be cheap. If it is... well shit.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Yeah I was just a bit confused with Nvidia's 2X Perf/watt claim for Kepler>Maxwell which were both on 28nm so most of the gains must have come from the architecture alone in that case.
Obliterator
Member
As awesome as Polaris is I really doubt its in PS4.5. There will be a power jump but nothing that big not to mention thats a total different architecture to program for.
If Nintendo are pushing things though I could see Polaris being in the NX
If Nintendo are pushing things though I could see Polaris being in the NX
platina
Member
Yeah 4k is super affordable know. Hdr is where it's at.
the misreporting just continues ... amazing.
the 4k media supporting PS4 would not surprise me if it was debuted April 4th to tie in with this..
http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/29/11325628/sony-ultra-4k-streaming-service-launch-april-4
the 4k media supporting PS4 would not surprise me if it was debuted April 4th to tie in with this..
http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/29/11325628/sony-ultra-4k-streaming-service-launch-april-4