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[tanooki27]

when the time comes, what d'you think gamestop will give for the ps4tique - $150? $100?

 

[FiveMinuteHero]

I have amended the original.
Again, unless we'd have a stupid dev, not gonna happen.
40m PS4s, and the by far largest userbase as the price keeps dropping at $299 and below will make sure of that.

Will we still see the occasional badly optimized 1080p30? Obviously, and we didn't need the PS4K to see that already in the past 3 years.
Which is why we will also probably also have badly optimized 1080p60 as well (again, if this whole thing is real, still feeling like having a grain of salt with this), and I'm sure we will have plenty of PS4K owners complaining that the PS4 is "dragging them down", whether true or not, right here on GAF.

Hmm I do agree pretty much with what you just said. But I still think PS4K is a bad idea.

 

[Curufinwe]

I wonder - when did Sony plan to announce this? If they were going to release PS4K in Q1 2017, I doubt they would have done so during this years E3 as it would cost them a lot in terms of lost sales, especially in the holiday season.

Now that the cat is out of the bag (assuming this is all true), they have a potential PR disaster and it will only get worse by the day. I wonder if Sony will do something...

There's no way a story like this would stay secret once developers get involved.

 

[orochi91]

The single, most important reason to me is this. I can't play Uncharted, GT or God of War on a PC, no matter how more logical it would be to build one.

Understandable.

I built a PC some years ago for multiplat games, but I'll always have a console(s) from both Nintendo and Sony to go along with it. Those companies have way too many good AAA games for me to skip out on.

 

[wapplew]

I have amended the original.
Again, unless we'd have a stupid dev, not gonna happen.
40m PS4s, and the by far largest userbase as the price keeps dropping at $299 and below will make sure of that.

Will we still see the occasional badly optimized 1080p30? Obviously, and we didn't need the PS4K to see that already in the past 3 years.
Which is why we will also probably also have badly optimized 1080p60 as well (again, if this whole thing is real, still feeling like having a grain of salt with this), and I'm sure we will have plenty of PS4K owners complaining that the PS4 is "dragging them down", whether true or not, right here on GAF.

PS4K being drag down by PS4 is not that big of a deal, because we kinda expect that.
PS5 or whatever come after PS4K being drag down by PS4 is much bigger deal and it will happen if they release new hardware every 3 years.

 

[Freiya]

PC has way, way more exclusives that you may love too if you tried

Not AAA games it doesn't.

That's why you don't fix something that's not broken. PS4K is gonna be half assed anyway because it cant run big budget games at 4K, natively. Just leave 4K for PS5 and you don't piss off anyone.

There are people like me who are mad already. PS4 specs suck and we don't want to wait 5 or 6 or even 7 years like the last gen. Forward compatibility should mean everyone can be happy. Unless people are jelly are just bought the system there really aren't any legit arguments against this.

 

[orochi91]

Not AAA games it doesn't.

PC does have AAA-caliber games, but not usually in genres that overlap with console AAA exclusives.

 

[EatinOlives]

Not gonna happen (now this is getting ridiculous, nothing has been even announced by Sony and yet here we are with claims of 1080p30 goal for a nonexisting PS4K)...
It would imply a 900p30 goal on PS4 if the difference in GPU power is indeed 2x, and that would be a turn about face on everything Sony (and most Devs) has tried to build with the PS4 so far.
Why on Earth would you aim for 1080p30 with the equivalent of a GTX 970, knowing that expectations are 1080p30 on its less powered older brother?

Because resources are not infinite and if they have a choice of making a game that pushed graphics hard at 30 fps they will.

We have to consider the fact that really optimizing a game to run on PS4K does not necessarily mean that the game can be scalable down to the PS4 in just about the same way. Building a game from ground up and optimizing for the PS4 will most very likely yield a better result for PS4, than building a game from ground up and optimzing for the PS4K and THEN scaling down to the PS4. This is assuming that devs actively want to make the PS4K their main platform, because otherwise there's little point in the PS4K in the first place (since that's what has happened in the past when other companies have tried this).

 

[Kezen]

It won't work out as you expect. The same current dynamic will persist because the business supports it. 'technologically accomplished games' won't materialize by magic; it just doesn't make business sense to target a super small potential audience. The Blizzard/Riot/Valve model of targeting the middle of the PC bell curve is where the money will stay.

I'm still seeing plenty of excellent tech adopted in PC multiplats, regardless of how some go about their business. Just look at many AAA PC multiplats, and you will find genuinely high-end tech in them.

PS4k and the next Xbox One will only increase this. If you have more machines meeting X level of power you can do more, PC will only benefit from this.

 

[Moneal]

PS4K being drag down by PS4 is not that big a deal, because we kinda expect that.
PS5 or whatever come after PS4K being drag down by PS4 is much bigger deal and it will happen if they release new hardware every 3 years.

No ps5 will be held back by ps4k not ps4 in that scenario, and will be just as expected as ps4 holding back ps4k.

 

[blastprocessor]

Are Sony exclusives that persuasive to drop $800 though?

I like Sony exclusives hence a PS (PC still around for 3rd party but most are shite). It's not worth it but who cares about cost as you live only once.

 

[mckmas8808]

The size of games on disc and HDD would dramatically increase only with native 4K games with native 4K assets, textures, etc., which won't be happening before PS5, with much more powerful CPU/GPU and higher bandwidth memory.

And RAM. I was thinking about this also lately. Why hasn't anybody said anything about this lately.

 

[FiveMinuteHero]

What I think is key here is.. will devs make games for PS4K and then downscale them to PS4 or viceversa? If they target PS4K first there is the big risk that PS4 versions are appalling, and if they target PS4, PS4k versions will have very small visual upgrades.

 

[Salz01]

PC has way, way more exclusives that you may love too if you tried

This is just your opinion. It's not fact.
It does not have triple AAA exclusives outside of MOBAs and some MMOs. PC is flooded with Indie games.

Don't start with Star Citizen either because that's not even out yet.

 

[Raitaro]

I actually came up with a positive look on this despite my initial disappointment: by the time that this new console comes out my original PS4 might be close to overheating anyway (going by how it reacts to certain games already) due to Sony's high quality thermal paste so I might as well get an improved replacement at that time while I'm at it.

...

(Maybe this has been their plan all along?)

 

[Mister Megative]

Didn't Osiris say he had additional info?

 

[krang]

So just to make sure I understand:

The Neogaf Mods, in conjunction with Kotaku and Eurogamer, under the supervision of the reverse vampires, have conspired to create a giant three week long multi-site April Fool's joke.

That's your theory?

Bit rude...they were just asking.

 

[UnwrittenZero]

Didn't Osiris say he had additional info?

Think he is waiting to say it, to make sure he isn't the only one that knows so it isn't a dead giveaway who he is I think.

 

[frogger]

Do we know for sure that the PS4k and Xbox 1.5 are going to be backward compatible?

If they are, does that mean a game can run on both version of consoles just at different settings? just like a high power PC vs low power PC?

 

[FiveMinuteHero]

Do we know for sure that the PS4k and Xbox 1.5 are going to be backward compatible?

It can't be otherwise.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Didn't Osiris say he had additional info?

Yep, hopefully anytime now

 

[Moneal]

Do we know for sure that the PS4k and Xbox 1.5 are going to be backward compatible?

If they are, does that mean a game can run on both version of consoles just at different settings? just like a high power PC vs low power PC?

Thats what all rumours have said so far,from kotaku to to WSJ to this.

 

[Elandyll]

Because resources are not infinite and if they have a choice of making a game that pushed graphics hard at 30 fps they will.

We have to consider the fact that really optimizing a game to run on PS4K does not necessarily mean that the game can be scalable down to the PS4 in just about the same way. Building a game from ground up and optimizing for the PS4 will most very likely yield a better result for PS4, than building a game from ground up and optimzing for the PS4K and THEN scaling down to the PS4. This is assuming that devs actively want to make the PS4K their main platform, because otherwise there's little point in the PS4K in the first place (since that's what has happened in the past when other companies have tried this).

Already adressed above.
The PS4 and its 40m users will remain the obvious priority as its userbase continues to grow fast at $299 and below.

The PS5 is when the devs will shift their priorities, along with Sony's marketing. The positive thing about a gen shift is that it will allow Sony to drop PS4/ 4.5 support with the PS5 games (obviously PS4 games will still release for a while then), as it will probably be backward compatible but the gaming public used to consoles would not expect PS5 games to run on PS4/ 4.5.

Unless they go full PC like (I expect) MS, but I doubt it.

 

[KOHIPEET]

PC has way, way more exclusives that you may love too if you tried

Well I have a PC (it's an ROG notebook), but I don't play that much, but I do play UT.

 

[CyberChulo]

PC has way, way more exclusives that you may love too if you tried

The only things that the PC has major exclusives on is RTS games. I don't know of a single PC exclusive game that is on par with Uncharted, Ratchet&Clank or God of War's level. I got a 980 card. What games compare to those that are PC exclusives?

 

[Ensoul]

So I assume this is going to be the new new thing now? Instead of waiting 10 years between cycles they are going to do incremental updates every few years?


I guess it will be something like this:

Ps4 Plays ps4 games
Ps4 2.0 Plays ps4 and ps4 2.0 games
Ps4 3.0 Plays P4 3.0 abd 2.0 games (not ps4 games)

 

[RoadHazard]

PS4K being drag down by PS4 is not that big of a deal, because we kinda expect that.
PS5 or whatever come after PS4K being drag down by PS4 is much bigger deal and it will happen if they release new hardware every 3 years.

Why would the PS5 be dragged down by the PS4? At that point we're in a new generation, not a mid-gen refresh like this one. Or do you expect generations to be over, and all we're gonna get from now on are these iterations of the same thing? Consoles truly becoming PCs? Even if so, I expect them to only support two generations at once. Like, The PS4K could play PS5 games (at a lower fidelity), but the PS4 will be cut off at that point. Etc.

For the time being I don't believe that, though. I believe the PS4 generation will be just the original model and the refresh, which will share the same game library, and then the PS5 will be a brand new generation, and none of the PS4 consoles will be able to run its game. Then we might get another mid-gen refresh, a PS5.5.

 

[FiveMinuteHero]

I really, really hope (and not out of spite) that a PS4.5 flops. Or else we will end up with more frequent iterations every time.

 

[FiveMinuteHero]

So I assume this is going to be the new new thing now? Instead of waiting 10 years between cycles they are going to do incremental updates every few years?


I guess it will be something like this:

Ps4 Plays ps4 games
Ps4 2.0 Plays ps4 and ps4 2.0 games
Ps4 3.0 Plays P4 3.0 abd 2.0 games (not ps4 games)

If that happens I'm packing up

 

[slit]

So then why release PSVR first, if it's being optimized for PS4K? So we can't get the best experience at launch?

 

[onQ123]

Do we know for sure that the PS4k and Xbox 1.5 are going to be backward compatible?

If they are, does that mean a game can run on both version of consoles just at different settings? just like a high power PC vs low power PC?

PS4K is a PS4 with a second GPU for up-rendering to 4K & better VR (That's what I'm getting from this)

 

[wapplew]

No ps5 will be held back by ps4k not ps4 in that scenario, and will be just as expected as ps4 holding back ps4k.

It's depend of the adoption rate of PS4.5 and PS5 really.
If both of them not doing so hot because too many customer take the wait and see route/ lesser impact of the performance jump/ early adopter buyer remorse etc, you bet PS4 will remain dev target for long time.

 

[FiveMinuteHero]

So then why release PSVR first, If it's being optimized for PS4K? So we can't get the best experience at launch?

I think it was a panic made decision.

 

[jimbobsmells]

So then why release PSVR first, If it's being optimized for PS4K? So we can't get the best experience at launch?

Maybe PSVR actually works just fine with the PS4 and people are freaking out for no reason?

 

[RoadHazard]

So I assume this is going to be the new new thing now? Instead of waiting 10 years between cycles they are going to do incremental updates every few years?


I guess it will be something like this:

Ps4 Plays ps4 games
Ps4 2.0 Plays ps4 and ps4 2.0 games
Ps4 3.0 Plays P4 3.0 abd 2.0 games (not ps4 games)

"Instead of waiting 10 years between cycles"? When have they ever done that? They may have supported consoles for 10 years, but a generation has never been more than 6-7 years. So your "PS4 3.0" doesn't seem likely to ever exist. PS4 (3.5 years) + PS4.5 (3.5 years) = 7 years, and then (at the latest) we'll get the PS5. That's what I believe.

 

[Freiya]

So I guess you were never interested in console gaming then?

I guess you wanted your PS2 games to be on PC so you could go nuts right?

Console gaming is the way it is for a reason, simplicity of use. If what you see fps, and IQ wise is not to your standard, then stay on PC.

If it was so important to developers we would have seen more console style games being developers solely for PC.

Adding another sku doesn't take away from the simplicity unless you are a monkey. I like how you didn't mention the 360 in your post though because it definitely had amazing specs when it launched and it pleased graphic whores like me plenty.

I've owned consoles way before I ever had my first pc and I will probably always play consoles. That doesn't mean I need to be okay with crap specs. You speak as if "console" is an excuse or justification for under powered and it isn't. The way you are so willing to just accept anything is what makes you a true console gamer I guess lol.

 

[OsirisBlack]

Think he is waiting to say it, to make sure he isn't the only one that knows so it isn't a dead giveaway who he is I think.

^^

 

[gofreak]

Probably completely coincidental, but the latest UE4 update enables functions for PS4 to query for CPU and GPU vendor and brand id strings. I wonder why you would ever need to do that in a fixed spec console runtime environment...?

(Seriously though, they probably do this for all platform runtime environments regardless and just omitted PS4 until now...)

Just to follow up on this... looking at the code, these functions aren't implemented on every platform. In public code to date, on Mac and Windows, but not iOS/Android as far as I can tell. And they seem to be precisely the kind of functions you'd use to determine codepath switches depending on GPU/CPU type at runtime...

But maybe still a coincidence

 

[Marty Chinn]

Already adressed above.
The PS4 and its 40m users will remain the obvious priority as its userbase continues to grow fast at $299 and below.

The PS5 is when the devs will shift their priorities, along with Sony's marketing. The positive thing about a gen shift is that it will allow Sony to drop PS4/ 4.5 support with the PS5 games (obviously PS4 games will still release for a while then), as it will probably be backward compatible but the gaming public used to consoles would not expect PS5 games to run on PS4/ 4.5.

Unless they go full PC like (I expect) MS, but I doubt it.

Why is there an assumption there's going to be a PS5 in the sense of a traditional generation? We're already showing this isn't a traditional generation, so there's no safe assumption a PS5 is going to be what we expect out of a traditional console generation.

 

[Risk Breaker]

I agree with everything here.

As someone who rarely buys (non-Nintendo) hardware at launch but made an exception for the PS4 because I could afford it this time and because it seemed like a smart investment, I feel incredibly bummed out by this new development.

This new version, if truly coming, effectively makes my previous - also not insignificant - purchase feel like a mistake all of a sudden instead of like the smart and economical way to keep playing the majority of the latest games without wanting to invest in a PC.

I could never feel safe buying a Sony machine at launch after this ever again if this all pans out, which is complete opposite of how I felt after my PS4 purchase and until this news.

By the way, are we 100% sure this is not some elaborate (longtime coming) April 1st hoax? Apparently we do :-(

How do you feel about the DS Lite, the DSi, the 3DS XL, the new 3ds or the GBA SP? If anything, Nintendo has the most revision/improvement SKUs in general. And a PS4K doesn't make your PS4 any less capable.

 

[orochi91]

^^

Lol

 

[XxRampage07xX]

Which is why console cannot go the PC route!

Yep. Generation model is better than iterative model from both business and consumer perspectives imo.

 

[Freiya]

The only things that the PC has major exclusives on is RTS games. I don't know of a single PC exclusive game that is on par with Uncharted, Ratchet&Clank or God of War's level. I got a 980 card. What games compare to those that are PC exclusives?

Pretty much man. Maybe MMO's too which is a genre I used to enjoy a lot but even then....

 

[FiveMinuteHero]

Yep. Generation model is better than iterative model from both business and consumer perspectives imo.

I am sure Sony would love us to make us buy a newer version of their consoles every year if they could.

 

[SneakyStephan]

The only actual implementation of full tonga is in the 5k iMac as a mobile gpu part. I doubt that's a 200w part.

Edit: it is a 125w part, which would work for ps4. http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-R9-M395X.154332.0.html

Edit: There is no full tonga in the wild as it would have a 384 bit memory bus, and the imac, 380x, and Alienware are all 256 bit. Iirc. Someone on neogaf explained to my why 380x is still not full tonga.

Do you have the link to the not full tonga thread? I love reading that kind of stuff. (I understand if you don't)

Anyhow if the 380x is still a cut down tonga, it is a 200w part

you can't compare a mobile gpu they are 1: heavily binned to run at lower voltage (you can't make millions of these without having many more million inferior quality chips that you need to be able to sell too) and 2: heavily downclocked

Those silicon lottery binned chips are also rightfully more expensive because of their rarity, one of the reasons why mobile gpus cost an arm and a leg.

edit: your link suggests the mobile gpu is the same 2048 shader 32cu 256 bit memory bus chip as the desktop 380x, just at a lower clockspeed. That's just mobile gpu binning then, I don't think amd can deliver millions of these golden chips for use in consoles, and if they could then sony would have to pay a big premium for them.

 

[ekim]

^^

You can write me a PM, so I know it as well.

 

[Demanufacture]

The only things that the PC has major exclusives on is RTS games. I don't know of a single PC exclusive game that is on par with Uncharted, Ratchet&Clank or God of War's level. I got a 980 card. What games compare to those that are PC exclusives?

What do you mean by compare? I'd personally take Pillars of Eternity over any PS4 exclusive outside of Bloodborne...games like Wasteland 2, XCOM 2, Undertale..and coming this year, Planet Coaster!

Well I have a PC (it's an ROG notebook), but I don't play that much, but I do play UT.

Maybe you should, get some great games for great prices on steam.

 

[Boyzi]

Yep. Generation model is better than iterative model from both business and consumer perspectives imo.

Defo. Couldn't agree with this sentiment any more. Still, it feels like Pandora's box has been opened somewhat now, regardless of what actually happens. Strange times ahoy...

 

[XxRampage07xX]

I am sure Sony would love us to make us buy a newer version of their consoles every year if they could.

Yeah the thing is not everyone will want to consistently upgrade their consoles, especially when their hardware still can play newest games.

 

[Marty Chinn]

How do you feel about the DS Lite, the DSi, the 3DS XL, the new 3ds or the GBA SP? If anything, Nintendo has the most revision/improvement SKUs in general. And a PS4K doesn't make your PS4 any less capable.

Only two of those allowed an increase in performance. Only one of those has actually utilized that increase in performance and it's still only a handful of cases. Despite Nintendo releasing mid generation updates that increase the hardware performance, it's gone way under utilized. So are you we suggesting that nobody is going to take advantage of the hardware in the PS4K?