Compsiox
Banned
Lol no I know I made it seem like it is but here you go:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/440630/
I got the demo
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The High-end VR Discussion Thread (HTC Vive, Oculus Rift, Playstation VR)
- Thread starter Cartman86
- Start date
Lol no I know I made it seem like it is but here you go:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/440630/
I got the demo
Hehehe
plagiarize
Banned
Was just playing it.
Foo is great. What a fantastic idea that is. Firewatch is a game I kind of wanted to be in VR, so getting to see an environment from it with the developers and Will nee of Tested... How fun!
Wowfunhappy
Member
This is a thought that literally occurred to me while I was in the shower just now, so I apologize in advance if it's insanely stupid.
In occurs to me that the main cause of VR motion sickness is the disconnect between what your eyes are seeing, and the type of motion that your inner ears are detecting. Has there been... any type of research into manipulating this? This seems, to me, to the me the primary remaining major disconnect between what VR can do and what the real world can present us with.
In occurs to me that the main cause of VR motion sickness is the disconnect between what your eyes are seeing, and the type of motion that your inner ears are detecting. Has there been... any type of research into manipulating this? This seems, to me, to the me the primary remaining major disconnect between what VR can do and what the real world can present us with.
Zalusithix
Member
Galvanic vesibular stimulation. It's very much in the research phase, and no guarantee it'll ever work well enough for the VR use case.
plagiarize
Banned
Samsung had a working headset that people said good things about. I think we're much closer than I thought just a couple of months ago.
Zalusithix
Member
Working as doing something yes. Not working as in perfect. Plenty of tech reaches that point and hits a wall. I'm just not going to bank on something in the research phase. Especially in VR where "close but not quite" seems to be often worse than nothing.
Ok, let me preface this by saying that it's not good argumentative style, and that me posting it is not to be taken as a "gotcha" even though that might well have been the intention.
But I just saw this montage and it very succinctly encapsulates the disconnect I sometimes feel between kickstarter-era Oculus and present-day Oculus.
But I just saw this montage and it very succinctly encapsulates the disconnect I sometimes feel between kickstarter-era Oculus and present-day Oculus.
Vyse The Legend
Member
The shit is Palmer was/is absolutely right. Dude is brilliant. It's a shame he either changed his mind or had hid mind changed somewhere along the way.
I think he realized that Touch wasn't close enough to completion and they needed to get the headset out the door so they worked with what they could.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I mean if they knew Touch couldn't meet the intended launch date, a stop-gap solution is required.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
This saddens me greatly. For better or worse Palmer will go down in history as the man who brought the VRevolution to the masses and we owe a lot to him for that. I can't imagine that the way things have currently gone are really what his vision was and I can only hope that it wasn't him that was pushing to be first out the door and ship without motion controls because of pride. First impressions are everything to the majority of people. I can't help but feel like most things are now out of his control post facebook acquisition.
I'll say it again. The only reason I chose Vive/Valve over oculus is because of policy and exclusivity along with facebook and NOT hardware (Both HMDs should end up great in the years to come). One is a very well known factor in the gaming space in terms of core PC gamers and one isn't. One is most definitely more open and unquestionably helpful to VR developers (I mean valve is doing so much R and D on their own dime and giving it freely as well as funding games while giving no restrictions on exclusivity) and one is leaning more and more towards a walled console-like garden. One is launching with motion controls for IMO the best impact on consumers for VR and the other is launching with a controller which palmer himself admits is a crappy way to experience VR. One trusted in their product so much that they sent preview units to as many big name Youtubers as they could with no restrictions on what they could say so that we could hear their reactions and be confident in what we were getting and the other handed out NDA's.
I love Palmer and will always be thankful of the hard work he put in early on but I can't stay loyal to a man that sold out and I think that is what Facebook is hoping people will do. VR is more important than that to me. It's sadly ironic that Palmer's name for his HMD is called the Rift because that is exactly what I see it doing to the PC community ATM.
Now, with that said, I am a community manager of sorts in my city and a lot of the attitudes that both sides have taken in this launch are really saddening to see. I can promise you that the only way that this whole thing will smooth over is if people treat each other with love, kindness, patience and understanding in the midst of hard times. I want VR to thrive not just survive.
Zalusithix
Member
Anybody expecting Oculus to not change with the Facebook acquisition was kidding themselves. Sure, having vast sums of money at your disposal for R&D helps, but now you're also part of a multi billion dollar company that has to balance idealism with profits and shareholder support. That's before you even touch any potential internal politics and outlook differences.
Honestly, I don't think we're seeing a $2 billion improvement in the end product vs what we lost by having them absorbed into a larger company. Only time will truly tell though. Perhaps we'll see more of what that level of investment into R&D can do for the next gen. HTC, in comparison, had it pretty easy this gen. They got to piggy back off Valve's hardware R&D and let them take care of the software side as well. Valve, being a private company, can pretty much operate however the hell they want. Even if that means dumping tons of money into something that may not prove profitable for quite some time.
Pretty much sums up my feelings towards Oculus and why I'm not supporting them
Yeah. I don't know what else they could have done short of either delaying the Rift for a while, trying to sell it without a controller as a less-interactive "experience" device, or ditching their focus on polish entirely and letting users fend for themselves. I don't think it was a bad decision.
For what it's worth, I don't think controllers are shitty for VR, not quite to the degree Palmer suggests in that video. They don't inherently harm a VR experience (though certain control schemes certainly can). It's not like Eve Valkyrie, Defense Grid 2, Suwapyon Cubic, Pinball FX, etc etc would be better with these motion controls.
Gamepads have their place, they'll just be far less immersive (or entirely useless) for a lot of the new and very exciting kinds of games we'll be able to play in VR.
ashecitism
Member
Here's what ex-Tested Will Smith has been working on:https://medium.com/will-smith/what-i-ve-been-working-on-84871ac38cea#.autiuksst
I know a lot of people on here are angry with facebook with some of the mistakes they have made but if anyone actually believe that Valve is openly helping HTC because of "openness" you're absolutely wrong.
Once upon a time... Valve was besties with Team Oculus. GabeN showed up in the kickstarter, Valve was freely helping Oculus and Palmer get his operation running, etc. Once facebook acquired Oculus, Valve turned on them in an instant because they knew facebook would try to create their own store.
Valve was ONLY helping Oculus because Valve knows VR is going to be huge and they expected Oculus to be loyal to Steam. Once that changed, Valve quickly shoved a knife into the back of Oculus and partnered with HTC instantly.
They probably told HTC something like; "We will throw full support into helping you beat Oculus with technology that not even Oculus is working on at the moment IF you agree to not create your own storefront and instead use Steam for the app store."
Valve can talk about "openness" all they want but they are only "open" when it involves supporting their platform, Steam.
I've greatly enjoyed Steam and I enjoyed their games when they still made full game products but anyone should be able to see that Valve is no less greedy and "evil" as facebook. I'm surprised at how much Valve gets a free pass from people.
HTC Vive would not even exist if it wasn't for two things:
1. All the hard work Oculus has put into VR.
2. Valve backstabbing Oculus and probably giving HTC all the intel on Oculus's developments in order to rush a product that included motion controls to the market to 1-up Oculus and beat them at their own game.
To me this reaks of desperation on Valve's part to stay relevant as they are doing everything they can to ensure that gamers use Steam for all of their VR needs.
My words my upset a few people but I feel like there is a LOT of people trashing Oculus on these forums while giving Valve a completely free pass on all the shady stuff they do.
I've followed Oculus and VR in general long before NeoGAF was even around to the point of obsession so I saw Valve going from major Oculus supporters to downright hating them as soon as facebook acquired them and began to work on Oculus Home.
Facebook has just as much right to create an app store as Valve does with Steam.
Once upon a time... Valve was besties with Team Oculus. GabeN showed up in the kickstarter, Valve was freely helping Oculus and Palmer get his operation running, etc. Once facebook acquired Oculus, Valve turned on them in an instant because they knew facebook would try to create their own store.
Valve was ONLY helping Oculus because Valve knows VR is going to be huge and they expected Oculus to be loyal to Steam. Once that changed, Valve quickly shoved a knife into the back of Oculus and partnered with HTC instantly.
They probably told HTC something like; "We will throw full support into helping you beat Oculus with technology that not even Oculus is working on at the moment IF you agree to not create your own storefront and instead use Steam for the app store."
Valve can talk about "openness" all they want but they are only "open" when it involves supporting their platform, Steam.
I've greatly enjoyed Steam and I enjoyed their games when they still made full game products but anyone should be able to see that Valve is no less greedy and "evil" as facebook. I'm surprised at how much Valve gets a free pass from people.
HTC Vive would not even exist if it wasn't for two things:
1. All the hard work Oculus has put into VR.
2. Valve backstabbing Oculus and probably giving HTC all the intel on Oculus's developments in order to rush a product that included motion controls to the market to 1-up Oculus and beat them at their own game.
To me this reaks of desperation on Valve's part to stay relevant as they are doing everything they can to ensure that gamers use Steam for all of their VR needs.
My words my upset a few people but I feel like there is a LOT of people trashing Oculus on these forums while giving Valve a completely free pass on all the shady stuff they do.
I've followed Oculus and VR in general long before NeoGAF was even around to the point of obsession so I saw Valve going from major Oculus supporters to downright hating them as soon as facebook acquired them and began to work on Oculus Home.
Facebook has just as much right to create an app store as Valve does with Steam.
Ehh yeah they are companies and they are interested in the bottom line, but Valve has created an open standard that works with any headset and doesn't require you to purchase games on Steam so I'm leaning toward them being the lesser of two evils.
More importantly though lets just say i've heard through the grapevine of some bitterness. Oculus did a little bit of "stealing" of the Valve brain trust. Pretty sure that Bellevue based Oculus team is on the same block as Valve. Gotta be a little pissed about that. The ideas that Valve had for the QR code room that were demonstrated at Steam Dev Days to everyone including Oculus were unique to them. That was before Facebook sure, but Valve had a respected VR team. Oculus had no plans at that point to do room scale or tracked controllers for their first product. They were amazed by it and certainly hoped to get there, but no one expected the CV Rift to be that. I'm guessing the Facebook purchase and exodus of those Valve staffers caused Valve to actually go for the room scale no one believed would happen anytime soon and HTC helped them get there.
Interesting details. Both companies definitely have done some unsavory things. To be honest? I'm not really sure who to support anymore...
"Interesting people in impossible situations." - catchy!
Come on man. Valve's work on roomscale is wholly their own, the way the two headsets do tracking is quite different. I really doubt you can accuse Valve of stealing Oculus's trade secrets. You're in too deep here.
I dont think anyone minds that Oculus made their own store, it's more that
a) Oculus is making games exclusive to their headset only
b) Oculus is purposely hiding non-oculus store games from users and putting up messages to dissuade users from playing them(Im not even sure if they updated their drivers so that non-oculus store games even work with their HMD at all atm)
The closed system of Oclulus, plus their absolute lack of communication with media and customers before and during launch, NDA's, and privacy policies just adds up to them looking much worse than Valve overall and frankly anti-consumer. Something that I never thought I'd say about these guys, even after their Facebook acquisition.
I dont think anyone wants to actively hate on Oculus. They were the VR darling since the beginning, but given the circumstances and what they've been doing as of late, can you really be surprised that they're getting some heavy flak?
I believe that Valve more or less told HTC what exactly Oculus is doing and gave them ways to beat Oculus by presenting them some ideas that Oculus wasn't using.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Not the way to handle this situation bro. Even though I think he was wrong I really believe he was just expressing his feelings and this kind of attitude is not how you change hearts and minds man.
Wrestlemania
Banned
Some people want there to be a good guy and a bad guy because they've decided to drop a substantial amount of money on a product from one of them and that decision is easier to justify of you can write off the other.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Not at all in my situation I can promise you that.
Zalusithix
Member
Let me shed a single tear for the multi billion dollar corporation that got outmaneuvered. Actually, sorry, I can't even force that one out.
What Valve did wasn't backstabbing. Quite the opposite really. Once a company creates both a hardware and software platform that are tied, the survival of a third party software dealer is in limbo and totally a the mercy of the primary company. In the acquisition Oculus went from a mutually beneficial partner to a direct competitor that also controlled the hardware. Valve was simply looking out for their own survival and preventing the creation of a closed ecosystem on the PC. Valve doesn't want that on the PC front in any way shape or form - whether that's Microsoft or Facebook.
So yeah, they're going to formulate an alternative strategy instead of signing their own death warrant. Even with that alternative strategy, what Valve has created for VR is considerably more open than what Facebook/Oculus ended up with. Sure it benefits Steam, but it's nowhere as restrictive as the Oculus camp.
Also, the "intel" bit is laughable. Oculus wasn't some private vault where nobody knew what they were doing. It was a rather open existence, and one that benefited from Valve's input. In the end Valve simply managed to create a set of tracked controllers that work well with the tracking system they came up with (another open implementation) and get it out to market faster because they believed that VR without it was a pointless half step and potentially fragmenting.
With all due respect, baseless conspiracy theories don't add anything to the thread and only encourage bullshit flame wars and "us vs them" mentality. I have nothing but respect for peoples opinions here but if you come here and post baseless accusatory bullshit you deserve to be called out for it.
Hopefully we can keep this thread on topic as it has been so far and hear more about peoples experiences with this new medium and less about VR company wars.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
I agree with you but it wasn't the fact that it was called out but rather the way it was called out. He is a human being after all and a fellow community member of GAF. No reason that a respectable conversation or even challenge couldn't take place and it would be a better atmosphere overall if it did.
It could be you or me that actually thought those things and I at least would like to be corrected in a respectful manner the first time and I know from experience IRL that people respond 1000 times better to a kind attitude in the face of humiliation on their part than unnecessary hostility.
Dude, Pokémon-like games are probably in the top 3 genres that I am excited for. Something like a tomagochi pet that Is always there even when I am in the desktop or even in games if I choose to... Man.
Here's an article from Engadget "How HTC and Valve built the Vive." It's a good read and they touch on the topic. I have no idea where your story is coming from, but some sources would probably be helpful if you're going to accuse Valve of stealing Oculus's ideas.
Noted. I will mind my attitude in the future. Sorry to the poster I replied if they got offended.
Zalusithix
Member
Lawsuits. That was easy. =P
Vyse The Legend
Member
You write excellent fan fiction.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Oh, man, can you imagine a steam trading card like system where instead of cards you got pets or virtual objects/props for your virtual rooms (think profile pages) that you could trade...
Miyamoto suggested VR doesn't fit Nintendo's style of social gaming:
http://time.com/2881482/interview-nintendo-miyamoto-virtual-reality/
It may be years before we see a new Nintendo VR system if ever. I've always wanted to see what Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, etc would be like in a Nintendo VR system but yeah I'm not thinking it's going to become a thing anytime soon.
Wow! I really enjoyed the first episode on the CV1! Although I did keep wanting to reach out with my hands, (come on Touch!). I'm quite jealous of my Vive brothers and sisters.
So excited to follow this going forward! Found myself laughing out loud at the insane novelty of the concept, (which has happened countless times over the last few days).
Well done Will and team!
I do really need to sit down and attempt to articulate my impressions of this new era that we are entering. However, it deserves a level of focus that I'm not quite ready to dedicate (being otherwise occupied with said medium). I'm sure there are others in this same boat!
I promise I'll get to it soon!As for now, I will say with all conviction that VR is not fad. This is the beginning of a new age. And not only is VR not going anywhere, it is going to be quite interesting to watch it consume all forms of media over the next few decades.
Once it clicks, there is no going back my friends.
Really excited to check this out next week. Big fan of Jake and Sean and I hope this pays off for Will.
Totally. Also Standard voice or text chat should just have a VR chat option where you can bring someone into your loading world with no fuss.
with additional irony if it is a shortage of xbox controllers causing the delays. We've all got controllers, just ship the fucking thing.
I was thinking it was the box itself, but if it's the xbox controller then that would be beyond irony.
Why would it be the controller, pretty sure there are hundreds of thousands of those already boxed up somewhere. Could be wrong.
Nabs
Member
What about the wireless dongle that goes along with those controllers?
Good point.