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Just had sex with a man - fucking awful

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SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
I mean, wine gets me horny, and I'm sure it gets the girls horny too (that's how I fucked my ex for the first time, she got horny from the wine and basically held my hand and dragged me to the bedroom while we were at a friend's drinking), but I wouldn't fuck a guy even if wasted because I'm not gay. Plus, what straight guy fucks another guy "just to try"?
What if OP is so straight he's mastering the art of the BJ just so he can teach his future female lover how to give him the perfect BJ?
 

Aske

Member
My second gay experience was better than the first. Then again that's when I realized I'm more into oral than anything else. Find the right guy and experimentation can be pretty fun every once in a while.

Experimentation is the best when it's safe and moist, and there's nothing as safe and moist as dudes (you cookie-cutter motherfuckers).
 

Rembrandt

Banned
If they were girls experimenting on spring break you'd say they were.

It's a ridiculous double standard.

no, i wouldn't but keep hitting me with assumptions. if anything, i would say they're both bi-curious/bi-sexual, but if you're "straight" and have sex with the same sex then you're no longer straight.

and i'm saying that because if you get to the point where you're engaging in sexual acts then you're not straight. you may not be gay but you cannot say that you're straight and your sole attraction is of the opposite sex.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
What if OP is so straight he's mastering the art of the BJ just so he can teach his future female lover how to give him the perfect BJ?

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BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
no, i wouldn't but keep hitting me with assumptions. if anything, i would say they're both bi-curious/bi-sexual, but if you're "straight" and have sex with the same sex then you're no longer straight.

and i'm saying that because if you get to the point where you're engaging in sexual acts then you're not straight. you may not be gay but you cannot say that you're straight and your sole attraction is of the opposite sex.

I dunno. I had to see a Hobbit movie to realize that I was the type of person who wouldn't like to go see a Hobbit movie.
 

Sibylus

Banned
Just caught up- stranger at a party? On top of being drunk, I think you went about exploring this mote of curiosity in a way most predisposed to failure.

If you've gay friends, my money's on at least some of them being open to exploring with you...
kunk-rum.gif
 

NotBacon

Member
How does gay sex work.
Do people take turns? Do both guys have to cum? Are there preferred tops and bottoms? How do they find each other? What if two tops or two bottoms? Is is sometimes just oral or usually intercourse.

Also curious what the op did specifically.

Honest question.

10341966._SX540_.jpg
 

Monocle

Member
You're doing it wrong. You submitted to the luck of the draw and the outcome is not exactly surprising.

Next time find someone who wants to make it work for you and has the patience to help you discover what you like.
 

Aske

Member
no, i wouldn't but keep hitting me with assumptions. if anything, i would say they're both bi-curious/bi-sexual, but if you're "straight" and have sex with the same sex then you're no longer straight.

and i'm saying that because if you get to the point where you're engaging in sexual acts then you're not straight. you may not be gay but you cannot say that you're straight and your sole attraction is of the opposite sex.

What if someone was bi-curious, and experimenting made him totally freaked out and no longer curious? Is he allowed to call himself straight? What about a woman who thinks she's bi, but then realizes she's gay? Or straight? Does her past mean she must call herself bi forever, even if she's now only interested in hetero or homosexual sex?

This is the problem with the (sadly necessary) politicization of sexuality. No, people don't choose to be gay, and yes, it's important to band together under identifiable banners when you're fighting for civil rights. But gay people are as bad a straight people when it comes to trying to pressure people into "picking a side", denying the existence and spectrum of bisexuality, and making false assumptions about other people based on what they've done, not who they are.

The reality is that sexuality isn't always simply imprinted on us by our DNA. It can be (and often is) affected by our experiences and environments, and it can (and frequently does) change over the course of our lifetimes.
 

Rembrandt

Banned
What if someone was bi-curious, and experimenting made him totally freaked out and no longer curious? Is he allowed to call himself straight? What about a woman who thinks she's bi, but then realizes she's gay? Or straight? Does her past mean she must call herself bi forever, even if she's now only interested in hetero or homosexual sex?

if that person goes back to having sex with the opposite sex exclusively then they're bicurious still and if they continue to have sex with the same sex then they're bisexual or gay. it's hard for me to think that a person that has sex with the same sex one time then sticks to the opposite is straight; most people won't take it that far unless they find the same sex sexually appealing.

i think sexuality is on a spectrum but having any sexual encounters with the same sex, even once, disqualifies you from being straight. maybe they're bi but lean mainly towards women/males or they're gay if they're into the same sex now with no interest in the opposite sex.

i say that because if you're bisexual and one experience freaks you out then you're obviously far past straight and it takes a lot to build up to get to the point where you actually want to sexually pursue another male/female.
 

Monocle

Member
How does gay sex work.
Do people take turns? Do both guys have to cum? Are there preferred tops and bottoms? How do they find each other? What if two tops or two bottoms? Is is sometimes just oral or usually intercourse.

Also curious what the op did specifically.

Honest question.
Depends on what both partners want to do. Some people like to take turns, some are exclusive bottoms or tops, some don't ever have anal sex at all.

Sex is sex. The label of gay sex tells you exactly one thing: same-sex intimacy of some kind was involved. Beyond that, the roles and activities are as diverse as they'd be with any other kind of couple.
 

Aske

Member
if that person goes back to having sex with the opposite sex exclusively then they're bicurious still and if they continue to have sex with the same sex then they're bisexual or gay. it's hard for me to think that a person that has sex with the same sex one time then sticks to the opposite is straight; most people won't take it that far unless they find the same sex sexually appealing.

i think sexuality is on a spectrum but having any sexual encounters with the same sex, even once, disqualifies you from being straight. maybe they're bi but lean mainly towards women/males or they're gay if they're into the same sex now with no interest in the opposite sex.

i say that because if you're bisexual and one experience freaks you out then you're obviously far past straight and it takes a lot to build up to get to the point where you actually want to sexually pursue another male/female.

What makes you think your definitions are accurate or helpful? If someone told you that yes, they fucked someone of the same sex once during a threeway, but no, they wouldn't do it again; you'd still tell them they were forever curious about bisexuality despite the fact that they know they aren't? That's not how any other kind of curiosity works.

Anything else, you can satisfy your curiosity and decide that you dislike something, be it a food, a sport, or even a sex act with your partner. You're essentially saying people who are adventurous and curious and not sufficiently disgusted by the idea of fucking someone of the same sex are always curious about homosexuality even if they decide they don't like it at all and will never do it again. Why?
 
if that person goes back to having sex with the opposite sex exclusively then they're bicurious still and if they continue to have sex with the same sex then they're bisexual or gay. it's hard for me to think that a person that has sex with the same sex one time then sticks to the opposite is straight; most people won't take it that far unless they find the same sex sexually appealing.

i think sexuality is on a spectrum but having any sexual encounters with the same sex, even once, disqualifies you from being straight. maybe they're bi but lean mainly towards women/males or they're gay if they're into the same sex now with no interest in the opposite sex.

i say that because if you're bisexual and one experience freaks you out then you're obviously far past straight and it takes a lot to build up to get to the point where you actually want to sexually pursue another male/female.

Doing something gay once doesn't leave an indelible mark on your sexuality. I think when people say this they don't realize that it seems like a biased standard. Like for some reason you're only crossing a point of no return when it's gay sex specifically.

I'm gay, but in my life I've been attracted to a few women. That's literally only a few, though, so calling myself bi or even curious doesn't work, hell even 'homoflexible' is pushing it. I call myself gay because that's what I am.
 
no, i wouldn't but keep hitting me with assumptions. if anything, i would say they're both bi-curious/bi-sexual, but if you're "straight" and have sex with the same sex then you're no longer straight.

and i'm saying that because if you get to the point where you're engaging in sexual acts then you're not straight. you may not be gay but you cannot say that you're straight and your sole attraction is of the opposite sex.

You can be, identify as straight and have sex with men. That happens all the time since the Greeks. Because sex is more than just hormonal attraction. It's really that simple.

Maybe the problem is that actual "pure" straights/gays do not exist, and with you have sex with can be influenced by context. Under the right circumstances everyone could flip for just an special occasion, without that definitely changing their sexual orientation.
 

joe2187

Banned
Just ate a bagel, Fucking awful Firstly am clearly jot particularly a bagel eater but I mean really. It was just dull. The whole flavor was dull. Am going to have some toast now but honestly when their letting you know to put cream cheese its probably been a bad might. Don't drink wine.
 

Rembrandt

Banned
What makes you think your definitions are accurate or helpful? If someone told you that yes, they fucked someone of the same sex once during a threeway, but no, they wouldn't do it again; you'd still tell them they were forever curious about bisexuality despite the fact that they know they aren't? That's not how any other kind of curiosity works.

Anything else, you can satisfy your curiosity and decide that you dislike something, be it a food, a sport, or even a sex act with your partner. You're essentially saying people who are adventurous and curious and not sufficiently disgusted by the idea of fucking someone of the same sex are always curious about homosexuality even if they decide they don't like it at all and will never do it again. Why?

yeah, because if they weren't curious then they wouldn't have fucked a guy. they may not have liked it but they did the action anyway and there was something in them making them feel like they would be okay with fucking someone of the same sex. if they weren't curious about their the other sex or remotely interested then they wouldn't have done it. they may not have liked it that one time, but I really doubt that would exclusively turn them off from the same sex for ever sexually.

i'm saying that mainly because there's a jump from being somewhat interested to interested to aroused enough to perform the sexual action. they're getting pleasure out of the action. if they got soft half way through then you're arguably not bisexual since something in you adhered against your primal/sexual instincts.

i just believe that if a person is interested enough to have sex/give or receive head/hjs or anything that requires a continuous sexual attraction to finish then they're not straight. they may not be gay, but they're not straight. that's coming from someone that believes sexuality is fluid and not defined into 3 binaries as others. you can be bi but lean primarily towards women and vice versa.

would you call a man straight if he was married to a woman for years, had kids but ultimately decides to date/marry a guy?

probably not, you would say he's either gay or bisexual. there's nothing wrong with that, but straight and gay both have decisive meanings to them and the inbetween is as complicated as ever.

Doing something gay once doesn't leave an indelible mark on your sexuality. I think when people say this they don't realize that it seems like a biased standard. Like for some reason you're only crossing a point of no return when it's gay sex specifically.

I'm gay, but in my life I've been attracted to a few women. That's literally only a few, though, so calling myself bi or even curious doesn't work, hell even 'homoflexible' is pushing it. I call myself gay because that's what I am.

not really, it's just that, as cultural defines it, straight means you're into the opposite sex. once a person decides to engage sexually with a person of the same sex then you're not straight anymore.

i would think you're bisexual but with a focus mainly on men. I wouldn't say that you're gay because you would have sex with certain women.

You can be, identify as straight and have sex with men. That happens all the time since the Greeks. Because sex is more than just hormonal attraction. It's really that simple.

Maybe the problem is that actual "pure" straights/gays do not exist, and with you have sex with can be influenced by context. Under the right circumstances everyone could flip for just an special occasion, without that definitely changing their sexual orientation.

then you're not straight and those that do flip are bisexual or bicurious. let's be honest, you're not gonna get a straight male to flip into bisexuality unless it was the most extreme circumstances. bisexuality/bicuriousity is 100% more fluid and open than straight/bi are, hence those being the ends of the spectrums.


also greeks were bisexuals, pedophiles, and sexist since they believed getting fucked made you less of a man. not the people I would use as an example for championing fluid sexuality.

I dunno. I had to see a Hobbit movie to realize that I was the type of person who wouldn't like to go see a Hobbit movie.

I read about it online and knew it wasn't for me so I stuck to the LOTR.

but either way, you were still curious about Hobbits. If you weren't then you wouldn't have seen the movie unless you're one of those people that see anything that's good; if so, then you're bitolkienual
 
yeah, because if they weren't curious then they wouldn't have fucked a guy. they may not have liked it but they did the action anyway and there was something in them making them feel like they would be okay with fucking someone of the same sex. if they weren't curious about their the other sex or remotely interested then they wouldn't have done it. they may not have liked it that one time, but I really doubt that would exclusively turn them off from the same sex for ever sexually.

i'm saying that mainly because there's a jump from being somewhat interested to interested to aroused enough to perform the sexual action. they're getting pleasure out of the action. if they got soft half way through then you're arguably not bisexual since something in you adhered against your primal/sexual instincts.

i just believe that if a person is interested enough to have sex/give or receive head/hjs or anything that requires a continuous sexual attraction to finish then they're not straight. they may not be gay, but they're not straight. that's coming from someone that believes sexuality is fluid and not defined into 3 binaries as others. you can be bi but lean primarily towards women and vice versa.

would you call a man straight if he was married to a woman for years, had kids but ultimately decides to date/marry a guy?

probably not, you would say he's either gay or bisexual. there's nothing wrong with that, but straight and gay both have decisive meanings to them and the inbetween is as complicated as ever.



not really, it's just that, as cultural defines it, straight means you're into the opposite sex. once a person decides to engage sexually with a person of the same sex then you're not straight anymore.

i would think you're bisexual but with a focus mainly on men. I wouldn't say that you're gay because you would have sex with certain women.



then you're not straight and those that do flip are bisexual or bicurious. let's be honest, you're not gonna get a straight male to flip into bisexuality unless it was the most extreme circumstances. bisexuality/bicuriousity is 100% more fluid and open than straight/bi are, hence those being the ends of the spectrums.


also greeks were bisexuals, pedophiles, and sexist since they believed getting fucked made you less of a man. not the people I would use as an example for championing fluid sexuality.



I read about it online and knew it wasn't for me so I stuck to the LOTR.

but either way, you were still curious about Hobbits. If you weren't then you wouldn't have seen the movie unless you're one of those people that see anything that's good; if so, then you're bitolkienual
This is the most insane, asinine, close-minded drivel I've read on the internet today. You don't get to decide someone else's sexuality, they do.
 

Aske

Member
would you call a man straight if he was married to a woman for years, had kids but ultimately decides to date/marry a guy?

probably not, you would say he's either gay or bisexual. there's nothing wrong with that, but straight and gay both have decisive meanings to them and the inbetween is as complicated as ever.

I wouldn't presume to say he's anything until he told me how he defined his sexual identity. That's the crux of my argument: I don't think labeling others is respectful or helpful.

Just because you believe it's impossible for people to have a fleeting interest in someone of the same sex, experiment, and then decide they're not bisexual; that doesn't mean you're right. In fact, there are people in this thread telling that their experiences with their own sexuality prove you wrong.

I know a woman who identifies as gay, but has been dating a man for several months. You'd likely tell her she's bi. She would say the guy is an exception, and she still feels like a gay woman around everyone else. Why do you think it's important people like her shouldn't choose to define themselves how they see fit? Why do you think your definition of their sexuality is more valid than theirs?

Labelling other people can be hurtful and make understanding human sexuality more difficult. It can cause people to fear and avoid their feeings about potential partners in order to keep labels that are more socially acceptable and avoid those that aren't. Accepting that whatever label each of us chooses to adopt is our business permits people to be who they are without fearing that others will brand them for their actions. Sexuality should be described, not prescribed.
 
i just believe that if a person is interested enough to have sex/give or receive head/hjs or anything that requires a continuous sexual attraction to finish then they're not straight. they may not be gay, but they're not straight. that's coming from someone that believes sexuality is fluid and not defined into 3 binaries as others. you can be bi but lean primarily towards women and vice versa.

would you call a man straight if he was married to a woman for years, had kids but ultimately decides to date/marry a guy?

probably not, you would say he's either gay or bisexual. there's nothing wrong with that, but straight and gay both have decisive meanings to them and the inbetween is as complicated as ever.

not really, it's just that, as cultural defines it, straight means you're into the opposite sex. once a person decides to engage sexually with a person of the same sex then you're not straight anymore.

i would think you're bisexual but with a focus mainly on men. I wouldn't say that you're gay because you would have sex with certain women.

then you're not straight and those that do flip are bisexual or bicurious. let's be honest, you're not gonna get a straight male to flip into bisexuality unless it was the most extreme circumstances. bisexuality/bicuriousity is 100% more fluid and open than straight/bi are, hence those being the ends of the spectrums.

I would call them whatever they want to be called. You don't need a label or numbering system on some "gay/straight" barometer. "Oh I'm a 3 point gay leaning bisexual." If people know themselves and know their preferences, what does it matter the ratio of their attractions and past sexual experiences? If someone is straight and had an experimental experience with someone of the same sex and decides they don't like it, why shouldn't they be able to identify as straight? You say sexuality is fluid, but treat it the same way as virginity. As something you lose as soon as you stray from your designated label.
 

Rembrandt

Banned
I wouldn't presume to say he's anything until he told me how he defined his sexual identity. That's the crux of my argument: I don't think labeling others is respectful or helpful.

Just because you believe it's impossible for people to have a fleeting interest in someone of the same sex, experiment, and then decide they're not bisexual; that doesn't mean you're right. In fact, there are people in this thread telling that their experiences with their own sexuality prove you wrong.

I know a woman who identifies as gay, but has been dating a man for several months. You'd likely tell her she's bi. She would say the guy is an exception, and she still feels like a gay woman around everyone else. Why do you think it's important people like her shouldn't choose to define themselves how they see fit? Why do you think your definition of their sexuality is more valid than theirs?

Labelling other people can be hurtful and make understanding human sexuality more difficult. It can cause people to fear and avoid their feeings about potential partners in order to keep labels that are more socially acceptable and avoid those that aren't. Accepting that whatever label each of us chooses to adopt is our business permits people to be who they are without fearing that others will brand them for their actions. Sexuality should be described, not prescribed.

Because they're warping a set definition to fit their values when according to most people they would be considered bi. I don't get what's wrong or upsetting about that.

Not in the way i'm doing it because neither come with shame or judgement, but saying that you're straight but got fucked by a guy once would.


if we're saying sexuality is a spectrum then there has to be defined sides at those points. We have gay and we have straight. As the majority of people have come to understand those, those mean that you're exclusively into either the same sex or the other, respectably. we have a long line inbetween those for people that only fuck women but feel attracted to a guy here and there and vice versa. i don't think there's any reason to obfuscate those other than a person not feeling secure in saying that they're bisexual/curious and not either/or.

a person being primarily attracted to the same sex but makes occasions is the definition of a bisexual. why say you're straight when you obvious share sexual/romantic attraction to both sexes regardless of frequency.

if you don't wanna be labeled as bisexual, fine, then don't label yourself as anything then.

I would call them whatever they want to be called. You don't need a label or numbering system on some "gay/straight" barometer. "Oh I'm a 3 point gay leaning bisexual." If people know themselves and know their preferences, what does it matter the ratio of their attractions and past sexual experiences? If someone is straight and had an experimental experience with someone of the same sex and decides they don't like it, why shouldn't they be able to identify as straight? You say sexuality is fluid, but treat it the same way as virginity. As something you lose as soon as you stray from your designated label.

I agree with that, but if they do, then don't call yourself straight if you've had sexual encounters with people of the same sex because then by definition you're attracted to both sexes/genders, making you a bisexual regardless of rather you adhere to those labels or not. you don't have to get all specific with it but if a partner comes to me saying they're bisexual then I don't have to pry as to how much because them dating or fucking me isn't of my concern. but if a partner comes to me and says their straight but have fucked/dated the same sex in the past then I'm thinking they're not straight because that doesn't make sense.

i was confused about your comparison but it's the same in the sense that either a person is a virgin or not (like a person being straight/gay) and in between those two definite scales there's a long line defining a person's sexual promiscuity (like a person being bisexual/bicurious and everything in between).

i'm not out looking for a label but if you have sex with a guy and he says he's straight then that's a lie and wrong. i'm not discussing the fluidity of his sexuality, just the part of a guy having sex with another guy and being straight.



It's as simple as this: if you have sex or feel sexually/romantically attracted to both sexes then you're bisexual.
as to how bi; idk and don't care. you're just bisexual and it's on that person to determine how much of the other/same sex they enjoy or aroused by, but you can't be heterosexual and have sex with a person of the same sex. I'm not saying anyone should label themselves as a "point 3 gay leaning bisexual" or anything of that, I'm just saying that you're not straight.
 
For the people who are saying OP is gay - 2 of the guys I've done stuff with have identified as straight and solely dated women before and after, and to the best of my knowledge have not had any other same sex interactions. People do things sometimes and it doesn't necessarily mean their sexuality has changed - you can identify as one thing and have an exception or two.

Unless OP has been fucking around with dudes a lot in which case ya... think about it :p

Perhaps you were so bad that they just didn't consider it sex.


RUTHLESS
 

Stahsky

A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
sometimes you just wanna suck a dick. aint nothing wrong with that. i ate an oyster once and i was like fuck no. live and learn brother
 

big_z

Member
These results are likely due to poor choice of drink. You need a wine that will compliment the penis, I highly recommend you try again and report back.
 

yepyepyep

Member
Just because people experiment doesn't mean they're bi or secretly gay. Plenty of gay people have sexual or romantic relationships with the opposite sex before they come to the realisation of their sexuality. I mean the whole point of experimenting is to find out if something is for you. They might be experimenting for the novelty or for the curiosity of what homo sex is like, rather than acting on want or desire.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I read about it online and knew it wasn't for me so I stuck to the LOTR.

but either way, you were still curious about Hobbits. If you weren't then you wouldn't have seen the movie unless you're one of those people that see anything that's good; if so, then you're bitolkienual

"Hobbit" actually works great as a euphemism for schlong.

And then there's "hobbit hole"....... you get the idea.
 

Rembrandt

Banned
Just because people experiment doesn't mean they're bi or secretly gay. Plenty of gay people have sexual or romantic relationships with the opposite sex before they come to the realisation of their sexuality. I mean the whole point of experimenting is to find out if something is for you. They might be experimenting for the novelty or for the curiosity of what homo sex is like, rather than acting on want or desire.

Curiosity or experimenting comes from want and desire, though. You don't experiment or become curious if you don't want or desire something different. Be it physical experience, romantic experience, mental experience, etc; you want or desire something different.


There's absolutely nothing wrong with that but I think some of you guys are getting too offended over a little thing like we're judging or the labels we apply are blind and with malice.
 

Ushay

Member
Wait what, you're not 'particularly' gay? Is this something measured on a spectrum now?

Sounds like unintentionally found out you're straight, congratulations on the sex by the way.
 
I agree with that, but if they do, then don't call yourself straight if you've had sexual encounters with people of the same sex because then by definition you're attracted to both sexes/genders, making you a bisexual regardless of rather you adhere to those labels or not. you don't have to get all specific with it but if a partner comes to me saying they're bisexual then I don't have to pry as to how much because them dating or fucking me isn't of my concern. but if a partner comes to me and says their straight but have fucked/dated the same sex in the past then I'm thinking they're not straight because that doesn't make sense.

i was confused about your comparison but it's the same in the sense that either a person is a virgin or not (like a person being straight/gay) and in between those two definite scales there's a long line defining a person's sexual promiscuity (like a person being bisexual/bicurious and everything in between).

i'm not out looking for a label but if you have sex with a guy and he says he's straight then that's a lie and wrong. i'm not discussing the fluidity of his sexuality, just the part of a guy having sex with another guy and being straight.

It's as simple as this: if you have sex or feel sexually/romantically attracted to both sexes then you're bisexual.
as to how bi; idk and don't care. you're just bisexual and it's on that person to determine how much of the other/same sex they enjoy or aroused by, but you can't be heterosexual and have sex with a person of the same sex. I'm not saying anyone should label themselves as a "point 3 gay leaning bisexual" or anything of that, I'm just saying that you're not straight.

This is what I mean when I say you treat sexuality like virginity. If you have sex once, you're no longer a virgin. Makes sense. I wouldn't argue that. But having gay sex once means you're no longer straight? I don't see why someone should be disqualified from being able to be called straight if they experimented once. If someone has sex with a woman hundreds of times and had gay sex once, they must identify as bisexual? Even if they didn't like the experience?

Curiosity or experimenting comes from want and desire, though. You don't experiment or become curious if you don't want or desire something different. Be it physical experience, romantic experience, mental experience, etc; you want or desire something different.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that but I think some of you guys are getting too offended over a little thing like we're judging or the labels we apply are blind and with malice.

Only because you seem offended by someone no adhering to the same definitions as you. And because your liberal application of the term "bisexual" to any and every person who has ever experimented actually makes the term useless to actual bisexuals. You say that people should identify as bisexual if they had gay sex at least once.

I tried smoking once because I wanted to try it at least once to know what it's like. Decided I didn't like it and will not be smoking. Have no desire to smoke and haven't developed any kind of addiction. If I date someone who staunchly does not like smokers, do I have to put "smoker" on my dating profile because I've done it once?
 
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