Abinash117
Member
I've been saying it but gaf apparently knows better. This is going to be a disaster.
I believe shinobi602 said the same thing.
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Giant Bomb: PS4.5 / PS4K is codenamed NEO, more info
- Thread starter bananafactory
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I believe shinobi602 said the same thing.
John Wick
Member
So do you keep you phone cycle to the same 5-6 years???
pixelation
Member
A) People who can't afford a PS4 will be glad that they are getting closer to affording one (if price drop happens on OG PS4).
B) People who likes new/better tech will get a new toy to purchase.
It's a win WIN!!!
B) People who likes new/better tech will get a new toy to purchase.
It's a win WIN!!!
Why the fuck would devs be happy in the first place with incremental console upgrades? The only thing this means in their head and actual lives is MORE WORK. That is the reality of things as of now.
Therefore, devs will never be happy with incremental upgrades that take more work. That IS the biggest benefit of working on closed consoles; your code will run exactly the same across all your console customers. But times might be changing and higher profit margins are in sight...
Therefore, devs will never be happy with incremental upgrades that take more work. That IS the biggest benefit of working on closed consoles; your code will run exactly the same across all your console customers. But times might be changing and higher profit margins are in sight...
I've been saying it but gaf apparently knows better. This is going to be a disaster.
A common issue raised by many on Gaf when we first got a sniff of this. But most posts were roundly ridiculed as saying it's easy as placing different settings on PC for devs.
Really can't wait to hear devs chime in on this as time moves on.
ricen-beans
Member
Your boy Collin M.
used to work for IGN, KindaFunny cofounder, has ties with the industry especially on the Sony side.
It's finding the right settings that might be complicated. Every time something major changes in your game you have to check on one additional version if the fog in the marches still runs at an OK framerate etc.
It's probably not a big deal overall, but if you are mid development and your budgets are already allocated you're probably not very happy. I mean how many more customers does a mandatory PS4+ version generate? Not many I guess.
pixelation
Member
Said 20 persons...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morpheus_(mythology)
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/neo-
A god of dreams and an adjective meaning "new". Decent marketing lingo.
I think the relative difference between the CPU and the GPU is mostly meant for PSVR, providing a small-medium boost in other cases.
John Wick
Member
So why are you getting your knickers in a twist for??? You don't know what the strategy from Sony will be going after the neo???. Will it be another upgrade or a totally new architecture??? People happily buy phones and tablets knowing that there'll be a better one in 6-12 months
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
I think that's an excellent point, the PSVR is probably supply limited and will be sold out for a bit regardless of a PS4k launch.
There is no legitimate scenario where everybody suddenly cancels their PSVR preorder for a PS4k, the truth is Sony will likely have two sold out devices to gobble up your $400.
They will need to accept it or move on.
Who in their right mind thinks it's unthinkable? Of course it's absolutely possible, just like on PC but it does require more work. That's all there is to it. And with more of course comes higher costs.
FairFriend
Member
I don't know, why should developers bother to improve the performance of the neo version of their games if they are forced to put out the lesser version anyway? I fear that only first party studios will take advantage of the additional processing power.
Audioboxer
Member
Well one thing I can think of is all of the red tape right now with certification for patches. It's ridiculous a patch can get onto Steam almost a week if not more before console games in a lot of cases.
However on the technical side it should be do-able just fine, just as it is for PC games. Some devs/publishers just won't want any extra work at all. Most likely the ones that shit out unoptimized games as things stand, or treat PC ports like utter trash.
FairFriend
Member
if the PS4 neo is a success, but why should people buy it in the first place if there will be no exclusive content?
On PC I'd figure there's the end user aspect where players can adjust all manner of effects, lighting, frame rate, AA etc to get your game running nicely on your custom rig.
I highly doubt the new PS4 allows for such changes, so devs still kinda have to optimise really well across all those elements (across two PS4's on top of that). It could be minor or a ton of extra work depending..
That's my own thinking but could be totally wrong
Abinash117
Member
Because developers made sure that PC games can change the settings on the fly, and made sure that the higher spec systems get better graphical features. They still would have to code and program better features for higher end systems. The sliders is the end result I would guess, not quite sure if all that is true. Console games are designed with one setting in mind and probably don't have the better graphically features like PCs do; if developers want to change settings on a console game they would have to go back and code it in, and then patch. I extremely doubt it is a switch button. I think something happen similar to KI on the Xbone, where they added in better lighting.
John Wick
Member
According to who? Richard Leadbitter? Barring him who's stated that Sony Execs don't know about it?
It can probably go from a bouncy 30fps standard or 60fps standard to a solid one though.
Gave me the opposite reaction. Seems like with such disdain for developing for a new model, devs would rather do the bare minimum to improve performance for Neo and leave the OG as is. Obviously the Neo buyers would be pissed in that situation, but it seems like people are going to be upset no matter what happens.
John Wick
Member
Richard Leadbitter effect!
I like how Colin argued against this move on the new ep of PS I love you.
Think he got across some of the issues people have with this that they couldn't put across succinctly or eloquently.
There's pros and cons for this move in any case, I don't think it's purely cut and dry either way.
Think he got across some of the issues people have with this that they couldn't put across succinctly or eloquently.
There's pros and cons for this move in any case, I don't think it's purely cut and dry either way.
Risk Breaker
Member
You guys do know that console games in development actually can have graphics settings (in a menu taken from the PC version or in a debug menu) that you can change, right?
Developer effort will come more in the sense that they have to keep the different performance budgets in mind. Meaning, if you need to keep, let's say, your polygon budget under 30M for the PS4/Xbone version you make a graphics setting around that, then PS4k would have an undefined number. You would then add props, details, change LoD to use that extra PS4k power.
It's no different from doing different graphics settings for PC.
They'll probably make a baseline in the future, like PS4 = Low/Medium = 7850/760, PS4k = high/very high = (future) Polaris 10/480, and that's the way they'll manage the difference in power.
It's not very different from what happens now with multiplatform games. Extra platforms always mean extra hours in compliance, QA and builds though. But games won't be (or shouldn't be) any worse for it.
Source: the brain of an actual person working at an actual big studio
PS: I'm guessing a lot of the time they'll just throw some HBAO, higher quality filtering, they'll move the framerate lock to 60/increase res and maybe add some AA.
The thing is, Sony likely thinks that the 'console cycle as we know it' will no longer exist.
Look at the technological advantages that have been made between the release of the PS3 and the release of the PS4. So much has happened in between and the industry is moving incredibly fast. Waiting 5, 6 or even 7 years to release a new console... well, that would be the end of the console gaming industry.
Maybe an earlier-than-expected console upgrade is an inconvenience for developers... but at the same time, shorter console cycles might be the only way to ensure that console gaming (and thus the jobs of many developers) will still exist in the years to come.
Yes people. Last thread a month ago also had Devs chiming in about what a pain in the ass it's going to be, and questioning the idea behind it.
I'll take Dev options over tech enthusiasts. I play games; I don't get hard over TFLOPs and architecture outside what it affords game development.
Magicgamer101
Member
There are 40 million people who own PS4. When the Neo lands, a few million people will buy it day 1. But for some reason devs will give their full focus to the Neo, with a small install base making the best games for that, and make unoptimised messes of games for the original ps4.
John Wick
Member
How dare ye apply common sense and logic to a discussion!
why does everything have to be like phones/tablets? why do people swallow this so willingly?
Risk Breaker
Member
Yeah, for some reason devs don't like money. Look at how quickly they abandoned the (old and outdated as fuck by then) PS3 and 360! It only took them like 2 years.
Just like a Xbone Version needs trail a PS4 version by a perceived "correct" distance or else it's either "money hat" or "lazy dev" the PS4+ must have a certain technical advantage. So you need the right/ optimal settings for your PS4+ version and actually test those throughout your game.
John Wick
Member
They're gonna abandon the console just after 4 years on the market and then get you to buy the new console. Oh wait that's another......
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
It's insane that it's the same PS4 that is currently running the new Ratchet and Clank and Uncharted 4 (considered two of the best looking games in history).
I understand but I disagree with the bold part. I think the console gaming industry is and will be perfectly viable as long as the initial console released for that cycle is up to modern day current tech standards or better; not some bullshit Jaguar cpu. Something Sony, MS and Nintendo completely fumbled with at the start of this console generation. 5-6 year cycles with actual current tech HW is possible and viable, but more than that is most likely pushing it like the previous long ass console cycle.S¡mon;201377740 said:
That being said, both routes in my opinion are viable business ventures IF handled properly. The same way you can fuck up a 6 year console cycle, you can also do to an incremental/cellphone model HW cycle. How these companies handle this going forward will be key, no doubt about that.
Why would they do that?
Why wouldn't they?
I feel like half of your posts pertaining to this use that comic and I've never understood how it applies in a single one of them.Didn't answer much.
I know already what it is and which is why I play shooters and stuff on console for an equal playing field. That would just basically just be a slap in the face to people who don't upgrade.
I still see supporters as this
John Wick
Member
The same way Apple and Samsung tell their users every year they gonna be second class!
If the developers don't like it, I guess that'll work against the regular PS4's games rather than the new one.
This cracked me up.This thread is this:
but full of people who want to do this:
It really does feel that way.
So long as they stick to their guns of not deteriorating the quality of games on the initial hardware, I'm not really seeing the issue here. Personally, I'm just fine "missing out" on some frames per second. Getting this kind of hardware revision is much better than the hardware revisions of the past where the most significant difference was in the shape of the casing. I'm also okay with the idea that this is just a test to see how future proof they can make the PS5, considering we're almost at that point where home media technology will need to catch up with 4K as that becomes more standard in home TVs.
On the other side of the fence, I'm a little concerned that this might kick off the death of the "set it and forget it" draw to console gaming. No matter how often they're going to try and keep the hardware of a console "current" in a generation - and how adamant Sony seems to be currently about not having exclusive titles for the newer hardware. New Nintendo 3DS already showcases this with Xenoblade Chronicles and Super NES VC titles. Granted I don't think Sony plans on supporting games that require this new hardware in order to play, but I'm thinking in the long term. I don't want to end up seeing that I can't play Grand Theft Auto VII because I don't have the NEW Sony Playtstation 5, when I played GTAVI just fine on my regular Playstation 5.
On the other side of the fence, I'm a little concerned that this might kick off the death of the "set it and forget it" draw to console gaming. No matter how often they're going to try and keep the hardware of a console "current" in a generation - and how adamant Sony seems to be currently about not having exclusive titles for the newer hardware. New Nintendo 3DS already showcases this with Xenoblade Chronicles and Super NES VC titles. Granted I don't think Sony plans on supporting games that require this new hardware in order to play, but I'm thinking in the long term. I don't want to end up seeing that I can't play Grand Theft Auto VII because I don't have the NEW Sony Playtstation 5, when I played GTAVI just fine on my regular Playstation 5.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This is what I don't understand. There's ZERO percent chance that Sony is forcing 1st and 3rd parties to make their games better for the PS NEO.
It doesn't make logical sense. I can see them mandating that all their games run well on the OG PS4 instead, because it's the default console.
Same reasons why journalists don't reveal their sources....
John Wick
Member
It's no harder than making games for the PC. Except for the PC you gotta account for a shitload of CPUs and GPU's
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
That's what some backwards people want you to believe. Of course your logic is making you come up with perfect questions to that.
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