Choppasmith
Member
Even for the other KoF trailers I noticed WAY more non-english comments.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
King of Fighters XIV Roster Discussion thread. Leaked roster in first post
- Thread starter Tizoc
- Start date
Even for the other KoF trailers I noticed WAY more non-english comments.
Yup, total Ma~ Banderas!
Admit it, you're just trying to escape the *positive feels* coming from the graphic convo thread...
BadWolf said:
I posted it up, knowing full well the results were going to be PREDICTABO. I would have actually been surprised if general opinion had done that much of a 180 #OnHere, but I was willing to just perform an experiment and see where we were, some 6-7 months after the TGS unveil.
Plus, admittedly, I was bored at work and needed the entertainment.
Choppasmith said:
It's the same on the Facebook page too. According to peeps over at SRK, a lot of Brazilians like Banderas, but there are still some who were hoping him to be a bit more of a "serious" character.
Frankly, I'm loving that the guy is a bit of a black weeaboo goofball, who also happens to be citing heavily from the books of Bang and Hanzo/Galford. I think that's whole new trope for gaming in general, if not certainly just among fighting games.
Man I miss Shingo.
He'll be back...someday. Hell, because technically the Ash Saga didn't "happen" (at least as we knew it), I wonder what his excuse would be, unless Iori actually did still rough him up in some way.
Of course, I just wonder if Takehito Koyasu will have any room in his schedule to reprise the role.
lol, man. You like Sean AND Shingo?
Me too.
I mean, the boxer dude is there as the less goofy South American dude. I really wanna see what NotLaura and the other chick are all about. I'd love if one of them was a rival of Jenet.
Also, am I the only one who always felt Mary was sorta latin? I know she's not Maria Azul but she looked like a south american blond to me... maybe it's the fighting style.
Gorilla Blade
Member
Man the graphics thread had everything. From "LOL PS2 GWAFICKS!" To "Show me a ps2 that looks like that" to classic Sab-ca essay posts.
Judging by the fact that Mary's grandfather was Tatsumi Suo (who was also one of Geese's teachers), we can presume she's got some Japanese in her. Beyond that much is what I consider to be anybody's guess.
Sambo also shares a couple of things in common with BJJ.
I swear I do it to punish myself haha.
Tizoc
Member
I think I may be missing something - not sure if that's Kenshiro since I can't quitesee his constellation scars, and I wonder about that hand gesture...
At least they're classics now! XD I like to try to... discuss things. I always hate watching opinions hit a roadblock and then just have everyone lump behind the popular one.
There's so much more to things than that!
Ken finally taught Lin how to fight along side him! Acho! Watttaaaah!
Homie i mean why even attempt the experiment when tekken 7 exists.
Every time I think about how this game looks, I think about tekken 7 and then go " oh .... oh no"
I don't think this is so much entertainment if not wanting to be hit in the face
Ninja's Vs. Dinosaurs a thing? Masked men FIGHT in a shodown!
I never think about Tekken 7 in regards to... anything, really. Much like TT2, I'll care more when it's out. Soul Calibur always felt like the series that took Tekken's graphic quality, and then gave it improvements and some actual personality. I'm guessing XIV will compare like that to whatever SNKP does after with many people.
I never think about Tekken 7 in regards to... anything, really. Much like TT2, I'll care more when it's out. Soul Calibur always felt like the series that took Tekken's graphic quality, and then gave it improvements and some actual personality. I'm guessing XIV will compare like that to whatever SNKP does after with many people.
King Dino~! *swoon*
Can't wait to hopefully see more footage on Friday.
Like I said, it largely was a thing that I was predominantly bored on a Friday afternoon at my desk, and I wanted to see what would happen if I posted up a mirror for the arguments that Professor and HBJohnXuandou made on a place that more would be able to see them. Said topic eventually just devolved into a predictable tirade that hit all the notes I was expecting. I should've made Bingo cards!
To me, at least, it was entertaining. If nothing else, it's shown that not much has changed about SNK/SNKP's standing in things, even since about a decade or more. And likewise, my general opinion about not caring about what others think about SNK's wares hasn't changed.
Can't wait to hopefully see more footage on Friday.
Village said:
Like I said, it largely was a thing that I was predominantly bored on a Friday afternoon at my desk, and I wanted to see what would happen if I posted up a mirror for the arguments that Professor and HBJohnXuandou made on a place that more would be able to see them. Said topic eventually just devolved into a predictable tirade that hit all the notes I was expecting. I should've made Bingo cards!
To me, at least, it was entertaining. If nothing else, it's shown that not much has changed about SNK/SNKP's standing in things, even since about a decade or more. And likewise, my general opinion about not caring about what others think about SNK's wares hasn't changed.
I thought you were making the OT.... you or SAB CA
I find that tekken has way more personality than soul calibur, tekken is a weird mish mash of anime and trying to constrain it with realism that turns out fantastic. Tekken was my first fighting game actually and like you am waiting for 7.
I want kof to be the best it can be, but I see it and then i'm like " Oh man its really coming along" and then I look up T7 and it looks like this
I'm not saying every fighting game has to look like t7 I don't want it to, I like how guilty hear looks, and persona and street fighter when they aren't stabbing people in the face. But I feel like this game now is what sf4 was at like years ago and and want to give it slack. But its 2016 and inexperience or no, the you get compared to your peers. And your peers look like this.. There is a conversation to be had. That said one think I think kof14 has down is redesigns, I think they are much better than sf's attempt to be honest either very minor or non existant in many cases with sf. With for me ken ( besides his face) , now guile, and Karin being outliers. I think tekken's redesigns are pretty good as well.
I want kof to be the best it can be, but I see it and then i'm like " Oh man its really coming along" and then I look up T7 and it looks like this
I'm not saying every fighting game has to look like t7 I don't want it to, I like how guilty hear looks, and persona and street fighter when they aren't stabbing people in the face. But I feel like this game now is what sf4 was at like years ago and and want to give it slack. But its 2016 and inexperience or no, the you get compared to your peers. And your peers look like this.. There is a conversation to be had. That said one think I think kof14 has down is redesigns, I think they are much better than sf's attempt to be honest either very minor or non existant in many cases with sf. With for me ken ( besides his face) , now guile, and Karin being outliers. I think tekken's redesigns are pretty good as well.
What is even the point in bringing up T7? It's like looking at a Tales or Persona game and wondering why they don't look like Final Fantasy XV.
Not to mention T7 launched with around 20 characters despite reusing over 90% of old character animation and designs. Sure Retribution is looking nice but it's an update that is releasing almost 1.5 years after the original T7's release.
KOFXIV's total development time, where they are creating everything from scratch, will be around 2.5 years or less upon release.
Not to mention T7 launched with around 20 characters despite reusing over 90% of old character animation and designs. Sure Retribution is looking nice but it's an update that is releasing almost 1.5 years after the original T7's release.
KOFXIV's total development time, where they are creating everything from scratch, will be around 2.5 years or less upon release.
Definitely different strokes and all. My apex of love for Tekken was with 2, when it was a system-worthy, hunt-down-the-rental-and-an-early-sale-copy fascination. As time went on, it's become less and less relevant to me... I loved T5 as a return to form, but I don't even really know WHY or WHEN I got 6 in a way, as I always felt like "oh... I own this?", and TT2 was pretty fun, but it's active play life just faded after a month or 2 of trying to really like it.
I like it decently technically, but maybe it's a bit annoying because it reminds me of looking at texture map packs and other really plain "concept" stage work. There's nothing that make me think of a particular artist style, it just makes me think "high quality render", like the thumbnails I'd see on the side of a DA page showing the best deviations.
I don't even think of Xiaoyu when I look at her new design, lol. I don't know if that's good or bad. I feel bad for the way I feel about Tekken, but it just really never STICKS with me. As an example, I loved the Rainy Rooftop stage in... was it T6? The music and overall effect felt like an epic showdown at the end of an 80s action flick. But that NEVER comes to mind when I think of "Favorite fighter stages". There's some lack or soul or coherence that makes Tekken feel plain and forgettable, no matter how good they do on a technical level.
The stuck-in-the-90s sound design for fighters doesn't help this either.
I pretty much liked everyone's style better in SFxT than I have in Tekken proper in ages. Julia became a whole new favorite, while I always just kinda tolerate her in Tekken (though I rather enjoy her as JayCee.)
Compare that to Soul Calibur, where Stage names, themes, character move callouts, and personality have a chance to become so memorable to me they infect my everyday conversational speech. SC4 an 5 start to suffer the Tekken Syndrome for me, however.
I agree that the differences are worth discussion. I find it interesting that most of the discussion has made me realize how insignificant many of the graphical flourishes of new games feel to me. Similar to how I felt starry eye'd over Plant VS Zombies: Garden Warfare's graphics+style and character, while I felt little to nothing exceptional about every shot / trailer I've seen of the Order, or even Uncharted 4.
Yeah, I'm looking at Guile today, and aside from the
I've always enjoyed SNK(P) style character updates more than Capcpoms. Even in the ageless world of KoF, it feels like they know how to relate their characters lives through style and moveset updates, much better than Capcom has since the retroactive history of the Alpha days.
KoF's new characters have a lot to prove, but I already like how much I want to try out each of them. Whatever they do atypically from the normal KoF cast actually feels refreshing, rather than like they don't fit the series, for me. KoF is the best of SNK smashed into one game... and Banderas is Galford X Hanzo in an KoF. I enjoyed this concept way more than most with Nagase in MI2, and I'll probably like him a good amount, too.
The hype for the huge amount of new cast, and the new people that number the amount of characters in most new stand-along fighter, makes me feel like I'm anticipating almost 2 new games, rather than one.
Oh man, that is one of best shots they have posted.
Can't wait for Luong's match footage.
Finaika
Member
In order, they are in the same genre and will be compared. One, looks like a early 360 game and the other litterally is on the cutting edge of its genre. And I find it exceedingly hard to humor kof's visuals when in looks like that in comparison to its peers. Because it isnt art style problem. Notice how no is talking shit about guilty gear, its technique and its kinda failing right now. And I dont think its intellectually honest to pretend like they cant be compared when you got folks like again guilty gear getting pulled into 3d breaking grounds in its art style. Kof does not and has never exist in a vaccume. Its very existance is outside of vaccume given how much its existance relied on another fighting game. As well as the fact kof just one game ago had the best 2d sprites in the game so not only is it is comparedto its peers its compared to itself. And you doing kof no favors trying to coddle it, it looks like shit when directly placed next to its contempararies and thats bad.
To your resused asset point, guilty gear.
And if time is an issue maybe they shouldn't rush it to release.
That effect looks like Guile's Somersault Kick.
Hangetsuzan > Somersault Kick. Everyday.
Tizoc
Member
Nash technically has both :V
Also I think you meant Hien-zan, in which case Rugal got all 3 beat
Gotta say I'm glad to see SNKP's effect designers giving us more than just "Here's some energy!" on attacks. tracing the colors from the characters themselves is quite cool, especially since it should work with alt colors and costumes. It's that extra SNK-style detail that always made explosions in everything from Metal Slug to Samurai Shodown feel a bit special.
Angel = love
These recent shots have a lot more oomph and I agree that the "trail" effect they have created looks really good.
It doesn't look like a smear or blur of energy but rather like something akin to action/speed lines from a manga. The distortion effect on the limbs behind the trail is a nice touch.
You mean to tell me that SNK made a beautiful 2D fighter in KOFXII/KOFXIII after spending decades making 2D games? I am shock.
The traditional game team was completely disbanded after KOFXIII. They had to build the team from scratch and the tools to make games in 3D.
The visuals are what they are.
Lost:
- Beautiful 2D art
Gained:
- 50 characters (all made from scratch, 31 returning and 19 new)
- Far normals
- More special moves and supers. Rush combos also use unique normals instead of recycling other normals.
- A ton of design refreshes
- Return of special character specific intros
How big was the roster when Xrd launched?
Revelator is coming out 2 years after the original's release and the roster is still less than half of XIV's.
SNK clearly has different priorities.
These recent shots have a lot more oomph and I agree that the "trail" effect they have created looks really good.
It doesn't look like a smear or blur of energy but rather like something akin to action/speed lines from a manga. The distortion effect on the limbs behind the trail is a nice touch.
You mean to tell me that SNK made a beautiful 2D fighter in KOFXII/KOFXIII after spending decades making 2D games? I am shock.
The traditional game team was completely disbanded after KOFXIII. They had to build the team from scratch and the tools to make games in 3D.
The visuals are what they are.
Lost:
- Beautiful 2D art
Gained:
- 50 characters (all made from scratch, 31 returning and 19 new)
- Far normals
- More special moves and supers. Rush combos also use unique normals instead of recycling other normals.
- A ton of design refreshes
- Return of special character specific intros
How big was the roster when Xrd launched?
Revelator is coming out 2 years after the original's release and the roster is still less than half of XIV's.
SNK clearly has different priorities.
Holy Order Sol
Member
Well there isn't much sense in emphasizing the game's weak points like that. What I like about them is that they managed to keep them fast, but I didn't expect them to go for that at all in the first place.
Im washed up
Tizoc
Member
I demand u resign ur avatar and never gush over snk ever agaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaain
Eh, do you know how many companies movie, video game ect hire contractors for art assets, a fucking a lot. A fucking lot, and to suggest that " oh they had to build a new team and that's ok" Is again pretending that SNK exist in a vaccume, because maybe they should have gone with different 3d artists. These ones aren't doing the job too well.
Shit and i'm critiquing them.
Ok this part cool let me present a better example. marvel vs capcom 3. Marvel vs capcom 3 is one of the best looking games of last generation in terms of fighting game. That game started with a roster of 30, a bit more than half of kof's and not months later increased to what I believe is 44 fighters. And that's 6 shy of KOF15's roter, and that game looks fantastic. You keep blaming time, and while yes that might be a factor, there is another example of folks cranking out characters at a fast with a game that looks miles better , runs at a solid 60 fps and has giant ass projectiles flying across the screen and has most their models made from scratch. You can't use the " oh they reused the models excuse" because almost every model if not every model in that game is new. The last marvel game was in 2d. Most of those characters hadn't seen a proper 2d fighting game experience in years.And not even just visuals, gameplay You had characters like Dante and Virgil who had their entire 3d action game movesets usable in the damn video games. Characters with multiple model forms like Arthur, and pheonix. And completely different play styles.
And that game looks fantastic, and it isn't just because the models look better, it has style the characters have a style. One of the reasons kof14 looks so damn bad, is because the models look plane, they have very little if any style, what is the art style in KOF14? Generic anime esque 3d model, the old kof sprites were based on artists art and you could tell who was doing what. Hell street fighter 4 was based on an artists artstyle and you can clearly tell who did that. The same guy who did the art for DMC3. But not only is kof's visual just incomptent, it lacks style. And that's the biggest offender, you can kind of get away with looking shabby if you have a style, and kof lacks that and that's what is making it look worse than it already is.
So there you go , an example of a 2.5d fighter with a roster of damn near 50, pumping out characters super fast with mostly new models, along with having to completly rethink gameplay elements and creating all new gameplay elements for each characters, because characters need to feel like they came from multiple video games and mediums.That looks great with an amazing art style With all the features you listed and more.
I never liked it when someone does a super and the background changes to a generic animation or the character's portrait appears in the background.
That's just me though.
What are you trying to argue here? That Capcom makes better looking 3D games than SNK? Is this news?
They also hit the ground running with MVC3 since it used the MT Framework engine and they had already worked on TVC.
SNK is starting from zero and the results are what they are, you can either accept that or move on.
Holy Order Sol
Member
King of Dinosaurs/Maxima/Banderas/Love Heart means we're getting dinosaurs, robots, ninjas and pirates, when's zombie
I was fine with blue/red flash + black screen.
I was fine with blue/red flash + black screen.
Truer words have never been spoken
Not that I disagree with your assessment of UMVC's style, but it's rare I hear anyone say they think the game looks "Fantastic"! Anywho, they obviously shared models and animations with Tatsunoko VS Capcom too.
I never understand why people act like "Sharing/having resources and assets" only matters from exactly similar games. Do you know how much work the texture, sound, vocal, animation, and engine teams probably had from ALL the games using the same framework that Capcom made over the years before making UMVC3?
SNKP has basically NOTHING to work off of that made it to production in the 3D realm. They don't have animations from DMC5 to tweak to put into UMVC3. They don't have models made in the same resources working under MT framework from Lost Planet and Resi Evil to share with a UMVC. They don't have a bunch of SFIV models to mod into characters for SFxTK. At most we have, what, KoF MI work and the color-fill models used for XII and XIII over the years that they're using. Which are probably a lot less usable than, say, the cross-gen resources Squeenix had between FFXII and XIII.
This is probably one of the few times in the past Decade that a larger game maker has had to TRULY start from scratch. Even Aksys had some work from Guilty Gear 2, and a whole host of releases on PS360 gen before that made Xrd.
The simple style of the models in XIV are as simple as the Shinkiro-based sprites they're using as basis for the non XII and XIII-era characters, silhouette and even detail-wise. Some distinct color and lighting style is missing, surely, but SNKP just blew the budget making Nona's unique works into playable animation (minus a few exceptions) over the past 2 games. It's obvious this game isn't trying to chase after that financially draining decision again, just yet.
It's bad for KoF's identity, perhaps, but good for them as a company. They've been chasing art all during XII's life cycle.
Kukri is looking like a mummy, does that count?
Oh and we're getting a dragon too.
This is (always) the correct answer.
I am looking forward to Kukri too. But at the same time...when they just let us play as (or at least FIGHT) Ron? Me wanna play as Chinese Assassin Necromancer!
Kukri's gotta be one of his subordinates or something.
Tangent:
Last Blade 2 PS4/Vita on May 24: https://t.co/P32s8x8RyE
I maintain they revived this because it's next on SNK's list for a new installment
Last Blade 2 PS4/Vita on May 24: https://t.co/P32s8x8RyE
I maintain they revived this because it's next on SNK's list for a new installment
Buying the heck out of that. But wait, no filters? The game looks great w/ filters.
No
Ill understand it, and critique it. It looks like shit next to its contemporaries. Have fun with that.
Along with that, I gave you a example of a fighting game whos creators much like snk,are new at what they are doing. Not as many characters, ok fine. So I give you an example of a fighting game boasting a roster nesr snk size looking way better, they are familliar with the engine. I could argue so is arcsys and there are now a number of capable engines available for cheap with plenty of info on how to use them.But lets get away from that because lets get to my actual point, and my current beef with your argument.
Ok, so the argument being sent my way is,all these excuses. Cool I get it, it still looks like shit. I still have to look at it. Explanation in this case didn't fix anything this is an artistic excution problem. Snk got stuff going on, cool. I have to judge it next to its contemporaries. And it isnt holding up.
So let me continue to be clear, i cant judge this game on hypothetical "what if scenarios " if i coukd do that, hypothetical completed sonic 06 is amazing , but I cant do that. The game isnt completed it could look better, but the visual improvements are nowhere enough to suggest thats going to happen. I would like to be pleasantly suprised, but with the information presented, i doubt it. Im not saying the game will play bad, im going to buy it. But like with most art I take active interest in, i critique it. And as it stands visually it isnt holding up art style wise or just graphical quality. So why should I be grading this on a curve. I get understanding the process, but there is a line,and this is a little past it.
As mentioned previously,I gave you examples of fighting games in simular situations. And I think its a bit dishonest to throw all of it away because it isn't in the exact same situation, when so many games arent.
But lets get away from that again, its kof. Its not on the level of tekken, or sf, or smash, or mk, but kof as a thing means something to a lot of people.So its strange to me, they are letting this happen, their headlining visual for their entrance to the 2.5d scene ...is this? Why not try another gane entirely call it the kof engine beforehand and then do this? Get some experience.
Im rambling, my point is explinations while convenient dont fix it. And my original point with the tekken post, in a world where other fighting games exist and the level of graphic and artistic talent disparity on display makes it hard for niceties. And I dont think i should be told not to buy the game, saw that by the way, or to just deal with it. I dont feel like I'm being responsible if i were to ignore it. I would set the precedent its ok for a fighting game this big to look like this and for me it isn't. I'll admit tekken was a extreme example, mainly because they have been 3d from the jump. But I think as its contemporary its fair game.
Ok so i said looks like shit. A lot of gaf have im sure various other sites have critiqued it. And people you may or may not listen to, gaming related talking heads I'll call them fine. Im sure you are tired of it.
So lets get to something constructive. How do we fix this? How does snk in future titles correct this, what do you want them to do visually that makes sure that in future we don't have this problem. A prefered art style lighting technique, something?
Heh, this blurb from the blog:
I read that as "As a way of promoting the release of a new game, here's the old one to celebrate!"... that's what I'm going with, and I'm sticking with it! ;-)
With Tonko RIGHT THERE supporting the re-release with new art, worries about a sequel not following in the visual style of the old games should begin to be tempered.
So Cross buy, save, and play, and it comes with the PS4 theme? Awesome. PS4's UI is so amazingly bland, I welcome something to make it look and sound nice.
I read that as "As a way of promoting the release of a new game, here's the old one to celebrate!"... that's what I'm going with, and I'm sticking with it! ;-)
With Tonko RIGHT THERE supporting the re-release with new art, worries about a sequel not following in the visual style of the old games should begin to be tempered.
So Cross buy, save, and play, and it comes with the PS4 theme? Awesome. PS4's UI is so amazingly bland, I welcome something to make it look and sound nice.
You ever play on a Neogeo mvs board with component? It is really a sight to behold when it comes to the look of LB2 and Garou.