Lister
Banned
That would be the ideal path. I'm hoping most devs, if not all, follow it.
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PC version of Inside seemingly using Denuvo
- Thread starter JaseC
- Start date
That would be the ideal path. I'm hoping most devs, if not all, follow it.
NeoRaider
Member
Sorry but their previous game did amazing on multiple platforms without and DRM. This is pointless discussions. Game will sell anyway.
It was free during the sale. Before it was like 2 million something.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-10-limbo-racks-up-one-million-sales
Going by this article, it if gets close to that it would to really good. Actually, that 1 million includes console sales, so a few hundred thousands in the first few months would likely signify comparable success.
What problems? I've yet to see anyone with an actual issue that hasn't turned out to be related to something else
SmartWaffles
Member
Truck ton of times in bundles and was free last month. Case closed.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Then I guess I'm out.
NeoRaider
Member
Boy nice stance there.
also,
Comeon bro
What??
Yea i mean if you ignore that the game sold around two million copies before it ever even appeared in a bundle, then you're right.
That would be fine with me. You know and I know that's not going to happen though. DRM is rarely, if ever, removed. It does happen occasionally.
If anything, that proves that their game is immensely popular and people want to play it. How many free games on Steam have more than 1 million players? 2? 3? Almost 4? Probably not many.
spacemonkeynation
Member
Yay, anti-consumerism!
Woo-Fu
Banned
I'd say that was an argument for better copyright law and for better long term planning at a corporate level, not an argument against effective DRM.
After all, I don't expect the Denuvo of today to be any more effective 20 years from now than the DRM of 20 years ago is effective today. You don't need scene releases the week a game is released for game preservation to occur.
Rumors like that carry no weight whatsoever. Until there is a scene release for a denuvo-protected game the week the game is released Denuvo is "working great". Even when the rumors are somewhat true they involve one person, with one hardware/software configuration, getting one game to partially work after a lot of effort, a lot of effort that has to be duplicated for every footprint that game can run on for the "crack" to be effective. From what I've read here and there they still have a very long way to go and even then that is only for one particular variant of Denuvo. As long as the backend of Denuvo doesn't make it into the wild I suspect it will be meaningfully secure for quite possibly years to come.
roadrunn3r
Member
Doesn't matter at all. If even 1M was sold and the rest free, it's still a lot for an indie and I'm sure enough it's more than 1M.
That's still a lot and I don't think anyone can say Limbo wasn't a big success.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
Dev can always remove the DRM at a later date when protection isn't as key (ie, during the early shelf life of the game). I think your issue should be more with the dev in this case and less with the DRM itself.
yep
RotTR has denuvo
GoWUE has Arxlan
i guess you havnt try to run those games offline ... especially after some time
NeoRaider
Member
It sold a lot before the bundles and being free. They got their money who knows how many times already.
Yea this is about where I stand. No problem with people deciding to make a stand, but I have never had an issue with Denuvo, UPlay, Origin or countless other stuff that make a lot of PC gamers mad.
It was part of two Humble Bundles, ~18 months apart, and was at ~2.6m prior to the 24-hour giveaway on Steam. It sold well regardless of context. Please don't misconstrue this post as arguing that Inside doesn't need post-release protection; at the end of the day, the only people in a position to rule on that are the developers. But that doesn't necessarily mean they're acting from a well-informed position.
Of course. But it would be naive to assume that all will. Indeed, I said in the very post you quoted that "[Denuvo's inclusion] may be an issue in in the not-too-distant future should the service be discontinued" and not "will be an issue in in the not-too-distant future should the service be discontinued".
Lister
Banned
What's Arxlan? Sounds like a Norse God.
johnnydrama
Banned
But how is people wanting to buying it but not buying it helpful to the devs in any way? Limbo is $10 on Steam right now, and I feel that's fair for the quality of the game. I'm sure a lot of people want to play Inside too, but if the game doesn't do well, then Playdead's five years of hard work won't pay off.
I'd prefer no DRM, but I want INSIDE enough that I can live with Denuvo. Already preordered and can't wait for it to unlock.
How come it only protects against zero-day piracy?
How come it only protects against zero-day piracy?
Same, but im gonna wait for the next summer sale instead.
SmartWaffles
Member
Limbo started appearing in bundles in 2012. It break 1 million sales in late 2011, over a year after release with more than half of the sales from XBLA. So you mean it sold something like 1.5 million on Steam in like, a year?
And according to Steamspy: http://steamspy.com/app/48000
More than half of Limbo's steam owners doesn't own it until the free giveaway. Playdead makes a lot less from Limbo than people actually think and since Inside has been in development for over six years, they simply can't afford the risk of losing sales to piracy.
Pre-load files are encrypted and core files such as the main exe won't be available till release. No one will be able to get hands on the game before release.
but wasnt the game mostly backed by Microsoft???
matrixman92
Member
I think adrift and another smaller game used it too, can't remember which
iirc CEG is now officially discontinued and getting patched out of games (for example TW: Attila or Dirt Rally)
True, I'll back pedal on my stance there.
Since it requires online activation ln Denuvo-owned servers, Denuvo also counts as full blown DRM.
as much as i don't understand the hate for Denuvo, this isn't how sales or sucess metrics work, like, at all.
SmartWaffles
Member
Yes, just like any other form of DRM/protection that uses online activation, you can't access the game if the server is dead.
What i'm saying is the game sold around two (or make it 1.5 for all i care) million copies across all platforms already before it's salesdata got inflated via bundles proving more than enough that the dev certainly does not need DRM to "stay alive"
And that was long before the game even got ported to:
Xbox One
PlayStation 4
PlayStation Vita
iOS
Android
OnLive
Wii U
Well, between the price and Denuvo, you could see how some people would be reluctant to buy the game. I dunno. I'm not saying Playdead should be punished, of course. I'm just saying that "selling" 1.5 million copies during the Summer Sale, even if those copies were free, isn't just a matter of revenue. It also shows that there is interest in their games.
I have not. I assume it causes issues with that?
Yes. While Denuvo games can be run offline, each system first needs to be authorised via a silent online authentication. You otherwise see this error:
That's not Steam; it's Denuvo.
Kurt Russell
Member
I get the "if their servers shut down then what am I going to do?" thing, but I think that of all the DRM forms we experienced so far, Denuvo is by far the best.
And the main thing is that it WORKS. I'm all up for removing DRM that doesn't work, but what would be the point of not using something that works? Why expose your game to potential piracy if you know that there's a way to protect it?
Until Denuvo gets cracked for real, I think that it's actually a good thing.
And the main thing is that it WORKS. I'm all up for removing DRM that doesn't work, but what would be the point of not using something that works? Why expose your game to potential piracy if you know that there's a way to protect it?
Until Denuvo gets cracked for real, I think that it's actually a good thing.
LelouchZero
Member
I have mixed feelings about Denuvo.
On one hand it helps to prevent illegally downloaded copies from being played, or at-least prevent them from being played during the first couple of weeks or months of the game's launch.
On the other hand, it can put the future of these games in jeopardy.
I can see other forms of DRM being applied to consoles games in the future to crackdown on piracy when the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One get opened up.
Piracy has been rampant across all platforms, and Denuvo seems to be doing pretty well so far at securing games.
It will eventually be cracked, as pretty much everything is, it simply takes time and determination.
On one hand it helps to prevent illegally downloaded copies from being played, or at-least prevent them from being played during the first couple of weeks or months of the game's launch.
On the other hand, it can put the future of these games in jeopardy.
I can see other forms of DRM being applied to consoles games in the future to crackdown on piracy when the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One get opened up.
Piracy has been rampant across all platforms, and Denuvo seems to be doing pretty well so far at securing games.
It will eventually be cracked, as pretty much everything is, it simply takes time and determination.
Yes. While Denuvo games can be run offline, each system first needs to be authorised via a silent online authentication. You otherwise see this error:
That's not Steam; it's Denuvo.
Is this a periodic check over days and weeks, or a one-time check at the beginning?
phant0m
Member
So far seems like Denuvo ain't bad. For everyone saying it's "anti consumer", it really isn't.
It's not a verification or limiting system that installs nasty drivers like SecuROM or Safedisc. It's just a way for publishers/devs to make sure you don't f*** with their shit, which I'm completely fine with.
It's not a verification or limiting system that installs nasty drivers like SecuROM or Safedisc. It's just a way for publishers/devs to make sure you don't f*** with their shit, which I'm completely fine with.
It's self-published.
SmartWaffles
Member
Periodic check, not sure about how frequent it is.
I think it varies. Some people have reported needing to re-auth MGS5 after installing new GPU drivers.
roadrunn3r
Member
I didn't pretend to explain or calculate sales. That info I posted is to show the game did very very well without DRM. What's the need for Denuvo? Especially for indies who rely on word of mouth and positive impressions from the community. Denuvo is like the exact opposite of that and while I can see why big publishers want to use it, it makes no logical sense for an indie, none.
The damage to SSDs was a myth. Performance impact simply can't be determined yet, no one has proven it doesn't exist.
Real_Madrid
Member
Good question, I can understand people not supporting DRM etc, but I don't think any developer using Denuvo really cares about them.
OT: I think this is great, hope more games use it and give developers a choice if they want a working DRM or go on GOG. Nobody is entitled to play games illegally for free.
If Denuvo really delivers and can only be cracked half a year after release (and we really need some proof on that), it will be no surprise if most AAA-publishers are going to use it.
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