AndyMoogle
Member
It can definitely convince some of them to buy the game. It's impossible to tell what difference it will make, but sooner or later some will buy the game instead of waiting for a crack that will never appear.
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PC version of Inside seemingly using Denuvo
- Thread starter JaseC
- Start date
It can definitely convince some of them to buy the game. It's impossible to tell what difference it will make, but sooner or later some will buy the game instead of waiting for a crack that will never appear.
Agreed, which is why I said Denuvo isn't a problem yet. But I still think all games should be protected, not just the ones deemed "good".
It actively prevents or limitd a few kinds of modding. It has several issues running on offline mode and the games are doomed of the servers go offline in the future. Not to talk about possible imcompabilities im the future with new OSes.
It is anti-consumer.
CecilRousso
Member
It is anti consumer. Your purchases with Denuvo are in the hands of an almost unknown third party, who really shouldn't have any say in your useage of your game, and their amazon server. It limits your ownership even further, in what already is a less then ideal situation.
If I pay for my purchase, then Denuvo and their servers should have f*cking nothing to do with what I do after that. As a paying customer, I reject the idea that I should have to deal with what pirates do. That's between the publishers/devs and the pirates, not me.
Jonneh3003
Banned
How can this possibly turn you off from a sale? It's still a great game guys.
Less a myth and more an untested hypothesis.
I know at the very least it's required after updating, because it prevented me from playing MGSV single player for hours when my internet went down after receiving a patch.
The issue is with the dev deciding to use this DRM.
AndyMoogle
Member
It can be patched out, so I don't see how a game is doomed.
CecilRousso
Member
People have giving quite a lot of arguments as to why in this thread. Have you read them?
IcyRhythms
Member
The real question is when does this game release? Tonight? Tomorrow morning?
Assuming the devs go through the effort which is an entirely unknown variable.
Real_Madrid
Member
I'm surprised we haven't heard of Witcher 3 in this thread.
It's mostly irrelevant how much a game like Limbo sold over the years.
Sure, i just said that because limbo has been on the market for 6 years. Of course its sales would be huge. The early sales for inside don't represent that it's a sucess or failure in comparison to Limbo.
Some people did that with Hotline Miami 2. They were pretty dumb. The game, comparatively to the first one, did better on its debut.
Btw, i was supposed to write 'as much as i understand the hate for the denuvo', not dont lol
An untested hypothesis might as well be a myth. Both are are neither true nor false until proven otherwise.
It isn't doomed. The larger consumer population likely doesn't care as much as what DRM solution a game is using as GAF or people of other forums. They just want to play a great game.
That it can be patched out is no guarantor that it will be patched, an therein lies the issue. Look at Bulletstorm, for example: it's one of the few GFWL games that does not support offline/local profiles and will thus become literally unplayable once Microsoft finally shuts down the service, cracks aside.
Right, but a myth implies a long tail and thus caries an implication of attempts of proof. Denuvo's impact on performance, however, is something that, presently, cannot be tested.
AndyMoogle
Member
I'm sure its much easier than porting GFWL to Steam, and most games got out of that mess. I'm pretty sure it's only Bulletstorm that is the only worthy title left, and that's been rumoured to get a remaster.
No one has any evidence to supported. All the times I've seen someone place blame on denuvo, it's turned out to be something else causing the issue. Until someone actually provides some evidence, I wouldn't say there are or are not any issues
ok was judging by info from one one of Talos principle changelog and some other CEG protected game i dint remember at this point(will try to find) , where with the removal of CEG they said they removed discontinued DRM in changelog
A great game bundled with shitty DRM. I'm still going to buy it because I want to support the devs for doing the game, but im going to wait for a very deep discount before doing so. I hope other people against this stupid DRM do similar. We can vote with our wallets and show that using this kind of DRM hurts your sales more than it helps them.
Good luck convincing the developers to do so, that sure has worked out in the past.
Spiritwalker
Member
Sad to see so much support for Denuvo. The future of PC gaming is grim indeed.
KainXVIII
Member
But GFWL games still works today.
I don't care about games being lost to the future, but the locked EXE files can prevent fixes I would like applied to games. For instance to get full 21:9 support in The Witcher 3, a modification is made to the EXE. If that game used this DRM, it would never have full 21:9 support.
And very few titles have made the transition to Steamworks despite the fact that A) Microsoft no longer licences it out; B) The GFWL Marketplace is dead; and C) There was a sunset date that was pushed back. The service is practically EOL.
Visualante2
Member
Will wait for the Humble Bundle DRM free version
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
I would love if a Developer or Publisher would do an experiment and release a game on GOG and the game would be released everywhere else BUT it would also include Denuvo on all non GOG versions.
It would be interested to see the sales split there to find out if Denuvo is really a detriment to initiall sales and if consumers are willing to put up with an added layer of DRM just to buy the game on their preferred store platform of choice.
I see. Thanks for explaining
Why not propose something like that as a standard. Heavily protecting a game with the best DRM available for a pre-determined period of time and then having its removal guaranteed by the service provider (Steam in this case), by making a DRM free version available to consumers. It could be one-five-ten years or longer, the amount of time doesn't matter, as long as consumers have some kind of promise that they'll have access to the games they paid for.
SmartWaffles
Member
There have been fixes/mods with exe changes in Denuvo games before so as long as it doesn't touch DRM, it is possible.
Woo-Fu
Banned
It is the same argument that has to be considered with all DRM, the potential for negative impact upon your honest customers.
In that particular regard though Denuvo seems to be among the least noticeable/problematic.
An argument could also be made that the licensing fees for Denuvo could be instead spent elsewhere, on perhaps making the game better, etc.
Unfortunately it is very, very hard(impossible?) to accurately quantify how much impact piracy has upon sales. Without that info you can't really say what Denuvo is "worth" to a developer/publisher and without being able to pinpoint that value you can't really make a case on saying that value is too much/little compared to the negative impact upon your honest customers, IMHO.
I can't fault publishers for feeling they need effective DRM any more than I can fault honest customers for disliking the negative impacts of DRM on their experience. That said, if it weren't for the pirates themselves none of this would be necessary so it seems obvious where the blame/fault lies.
seems to b peridic from my experience (all denuvo games got locked after cca a week on a boat trip) ... also the need to reauth seesm to be triggered by each HW change or even some win updates (once i got locked out just by connecting second screen to a laptop)
But a hypothesis has to be based on SOMETHING.
If the one of "Denuvo negatively effects performance" has no evidence whatsoever outside of random people on the internet trying to generate a narrative to push people away from using it or playing games with it, it FEELS like a myth.
Also, I don't think performance is going to a problem in a game like Inside, Denuvo or not.
Yes I did bother to read the quote. I guess I just misunderstood the context of "doomed." And yes, that's an issue of games preservation. I'm just trying to play devil's advocate by seeing the situation from the developer's point of view. Preventing piracy is highly likely a much more important problem to defend against than games preservation 15-20 years down the line. The initial sales are so important.
Did you bother to actually read the quote he was replying to? It is doomed,as far as playability in the future is concerned. It relies on online servers to be played. So yes, it is doomed and will eventually one day be unplayable, unless the devs bother to remove the DRM by that time, if those devs even still exist at that time.
SmartWaffles
Member
It's based on relevant if somewhat tangential history. "If previous DRM methods, such as SecuROM, decreased performance, then it's possible that Denuvo may do so, too."
Coma Ecliptic
Member
Look above my post and below my post....
One of these authors was going to pirate the game.
One of these authors was going to pirate the game.
I'm cool with this, not sure why the big stink
So was GTAV. But because of the garbage that is R* Social Club (I think) I've gone through the lovely process of downloading a fully cracked version of a game I have fully installed. With Denuvo in place, I have no recourse if shit goes astray - maybe a refund if I've under 2 hours. That's the issue. The quality of the actual game has no bearing on this. I just want a safety net. I'm okay with DRM to protect a game during the opening period (once they don't mess up the game ala MGSV), but until there is a crack out, I see it as nothing more than a rental, and will not pay more than a rental price.
Argh, wit her 3 doesn't have 21:9 support as standard? Got a link to the mod?
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
If Denuvo ever goes out of business, they better have some sort of kill switch that disables it for the games that have it.
Kurt Russell
Member
I don't know if it's worth it or not. What I know is that there's a guy in my friends list who has the cash to buy any game he wants, yet he only buys multiplayer games or games with Denuvo now. I know this because over the last year he told me many times that he bought x game because it hadn't been cracked at the moment.
I think that devs using Denuvo are targeting that kind of person, and not the common pirate that wouldn't buy the game at all.
roadrunn3r
Member
It's not a string theory kind of untested hypothesis though. We know a bit how Denuvo works:
Although this is only in theory for now, there is a real possibility Denuvo does indeed have an impact on the heavy performance games. We will discover that soon after Denuvo will be cracked. Inside is not the kind of game to be concerned about performance loss however.
Its possible basically only by chance. As it is, it limits modding too much, and it only doesn't if the devs left the right files unprotected.
Just Cause 3 modding , especially with the MP one, came into a halt because a update+Denuvo completely broke compability. Tales of Symphonia is using a DRM similar to Denuvo and it isn't getting a 60 fps fix from the same guy that did 60fps for Zestiria because its too hard to program around the DRM to do it.
CecilRousso
Member
Not really a good situation for us customers to dependent on more such theoretical kill switch.
Great work dismissing three sides of posts in this thread, with everything that's been said on those.
I don't care enough to ever defend DRM, but I feel as if the initial scaremongering about Denuvo has been very persistent. Lots of unconfirmed and unproven claims about Denuvo, I've yet to even notice it on the many games I've played with it.
Again, it's not defend it, I totally subscribe to the concern about the future and whether or not DRM schemes like this will mean we'll lose a load of games eventually. But in the now, I don't really worry that much about it.
Again, it's not defend it, I totally subscribe to the concern about the future and whether or not DRM schemes like this will mean we'll lose a load of games eventually. But in the now, I don't really worry that much about it.
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