Support NeoGAF

[Coffee Dog]

This actually might be why mother 4 is kind of safe-ish for now. Besides the name and some music, the game, from what I've seen, is basically built from ground up.

Un, no it isnt. It's using Nintendo assets by being a Mother game and having that music.

Axiom Verge is an entirely original Metroid ripoff. Mother 4 is a Mother game. Mother 4 could most definitely get hit, they just need to shut the absolute fuck up and fly under the radar until they're done with the thing.

This sounds harsh, but i hope it gets tacking down. Them calling there game "Mother 4" is completely disrespectful to its creator Shigesato Itoi and makes them sound like major dicks.

They called it Mother 4 due to comments made by Itoi. So take it up with Itoi, lol.

 

[LordRaptor]

By that logic all the fan art and unlicensed clothing needs to be taken down as well.

Fan Art might be IP infringing, but its not using stolen assets.

You better believe if you take some official Nintendo artwork and stick it on a T-shirt for sale you're getting C&Ded when the lawyers see it.

 

[Branduil]

Regardless of legal justification, you have to wonder what's going on in the minds of Nintendo's braintrust when they think this is a good way to deal with customers abandoning them in droves over the last generation. Do they actual not realize the importance of a loyal and satisfied core fanbase in building success? Are they really that out of touch with what consumers expect?

 

[-Mutsukki-]

By that logic all the fan art and unlicensed clothing needs to be taken down as well.

I don't think that applies to fan art.

But unlicensed clothing? Absolutely, lol. I have a friend who runs a shirt store and they had to change their Overwatch shirt designs because it used art and assets from the actual game and you can't do that. Of course that only happened because an overzealous fan told Blizzard about it.

 

[Dreamwriter]

It's my theory that Nintendo is actually working on a Metroid 2 remake themselves as a surprise NX game, knowing that a lot of people have been wanting another 2D Metroid game and that Metroid Fusion and Zero Mission were quite successful. It's the game in the series most in-need of a remake, and the most obvious one. And then they saw this popping up mere months before their own release, and freaked out, knowing it would directly cut into the impact of their own announcement and lower sales of their own game. So Nintendo decided to not only go after AM2R but also nip the fan game problem in the bud so it never happens again.

Nintendo should work with the guy and porting this thing to 3DS and WiiU. Free money and especially lots of free good will.

Nowhere near "free money", they'd have to basically recreate the game from scratch. Because it was created with GameMaker, not C++ or something portable to 3DS or Wii U.

 

[LordRaptor]

Regardless of legal justification, you have to wonder what's going on in the minds of Nintendo's braintrust when they think this is a good way to deal with customers abandoning them in droves over the last generation. Do they actual not realize the importance of a loyal and satisfied core fanbase in building success? Are they really that out of touch with what consumers expect?

I don't see a direct line of correlation between people currently buying Nintendo games and hardware and people playing freeware ad-supported clones (or 'unofficial ports' using copyrighted assets) on non-Nintendo hardware.

I'm not saying with no reservation that such people absolutely do not exist, but while the former group are customers, the second group probably aren't.

 

[spyroflame0487]

What's their problem with fangames anyway? I'm totally aware it's their right to get these fangames removed but... why?

As somebody who loves modding and appreciates people dedicated enough to pull through and do game conversions or whatever, this just makes me lose the little respect I had left for them.

I think as a company, they see it as either direct competition, or perhaps more likely, as something they have no creative control over. Seeing it from their side, its dangerous to have someone release something that isn't up to their standards or on model with what they want from something. Quite often before a Pokemon game is released, you'll see a lot of fan Pokemon games get pulled and even 3rd party Pokedex apps and stuff from various app stores.

It'd be nice if they'd perhaps reach out to these people making these games and see if they can work with them in any capacity, but I think it's easy to see why they wouldn't.

 

[KingBroly]

I don't see a direct line of correlation between people currently buying Nintendo games and hardware and people playing freeware ad-supported clones (or 'unofficial ports' using copyrighted assets) on non-Nintendo hardware.

I'm not saying with no reservation that such people absolutely do not exist, but while the former group are customers, the second group probably aren't.

People are going to compare whatever game Nintendo made to latest fangame. That's kind of a big issue. While I hate Federation Force, there is a problem comparing it a fangame, with fans saying 'this is how you do it, Nintendo.' If Federation Force was a real 2D Metroid game, that comparison would still exist, but at that point you still have a $40 game v. $0 game debate on your hands. That comparison, no matter how good the $40 game is, is going to make it look awfully bad, even if the differences in quality are vast.

 

[Mudcrab]

Hope yall found a way to get AM2R otherwise you missed out on the best Metroid game of the last ten years.

 

[Metal B]

It'd be nice if they'd perhaps reach out to these people making these games and see if they can work with them in any capacity, but I think it's easy to see why they wouldn't.

It would properly cost a lot of money and time, simply organizing those an undertaking. Then you would need to create contacts, play-test, try to reach standards, look for copyright and patent infringement, port those game to there platform and many more steps. Stuff like this is already complicated with serious companies, now try this with amateur designers without any business experiences.
The real world is much more complicated, then simply creating fun games in your spare time.

 

[soully]

Why would you spend a substantial amount of time developing a game but risk having the project shut down because of Nintendo predictably defending its IP?
A few minor edits to ensure no copyrighted assets or names were used and Nintendo would have absolutely no interest in them. Even if your game does manage to slip under the radar and get released before it's shut down, you still can't release updates or bug-fixes later on.

Yes these projects probably pose no threat to any Nintendo business model and it's unlikely many consumers are going to be confused into thinking these are official Nintendo games, but companies do need to protect their brands, particularly a company that sells consoles on the back of its family-friendly persona.

I get the feeling that a lot of the problem here is that toxic gamer entitlement: "I've bought lots of Nintendo games in the past and therefore I should be able to use Nintendo IP anyway I please".

 

[Effect]

Is there something you going on that is causing them to take action against all of these games right now?

The NX is about to be revealed sometime this month or the next, based on most assumptions, and there is going to be a huge up tick in searching for Nintendo and related games. No way in hell does Nintendo want anything leading to these fan games nor do they want anyone being confused by thinking they're official or sanctioned Nintendo products. They're also about to release a brand new Pokemon entry on the 3DS and maybe NX if rumors turn out to be true. This is in addition to normal IP and trademark protection they have to engage in like every other company that exist.

 

[JulianImp]

Why? For all intents and purposes it is Metroid 2. It updates its controls to a Zero Mission style and brings it in line with Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion. It feels like a proper replacement, really. Nintendo should work with the guy and porting this thing to 3DS and WiiU. Free money and especially lots of free good will.

Not many companies reach out to modders and have them join their development teams, and we all know Nintendo would be the last company to do that. It isn't "free money and good will", it's actually having to wade through bureaucracy to make sure the mod creator will never pursue any kind of suit or claim against them, and who knows what else (I think you can't have a wholly one-sided contract where the guy forgoes all his rights to the mod and gets absolutely nothing in return).

It's kind of the same reason Mark Rosewater and other Wizards of the Coast employees are forbidden by contract to reply to fan-created cards, and the same reason why they actually go out and do Designer Searches of their own rather than just drawing fan cards from their pool of e-mails to pick the next person they want to recruit. Admitting to be reading those fan submissions would put them in a tough spot legally, since a random guy who had sent them a card that ended up getting printed could actually go and challenge them in court for using his idea.

 

[RK128]

So now AM2R got ANOTHER DMCA and the creator cannot legally work on the project anymore with updates? Great. No, that is just lovely.

Nintendo is in there legal right to make the actions they took this year regarding fan productions and the 'big' games/fan media they shut down or tried to shut down (A Fox in Space, Super Mario Brothers Z, AM2R) broken silent rules of fan games (don't make remakes, don't make things that get you paid, make sure you ensure that your fan game is YOUR OWN work and not a Nintendo game). So they getting hit is understandable.

But what they are doing now is really spiteful I think. With A Fox in Space & Super Mario Brothers Z, the creators just had to change around a few things to resume work on the projects and last year when Nintendo took down things like Mario 64 HD & OoT 2D, they send DMCA & C&D to the developers right as work in the games started.

With AM2R, the game has been in development for years and after finally coming out, THEN you shut the thing down. One could look a this as Nintendo being kind, letting the game & an update to said title out in the wild before taking legal action that they had to. But another way this can be viewed is that Nintendo shut the game down due to it not only breaking one of the silent rules (remake of a game being sold) but also from another Metroid game releasing that month (Federation Force) and AM2R conflicting with sales of that title.

Considering recent reports of Federation Force bombing in Japan (though Metroid doesn't sell well there to begin with), I can see why they took the actions they took regarding AM2R, despite how I would rather them talk with he developer and see if they can make it an official title under Nintendo's name. While this didn't exactly happen with SEGA (Whitehead pitched the CD 2011 remaster first before fully working on it, then SEGA approved it and work on remasters of that, Sonic 1 & Sonic 2 happened before work on Mania went into production), that would have been a nice gesture of good will on Nintendo's part to their fan base.

Nintendo shutting down the Game Jolt hosted games is confusing to me, as if developers were getting paid for the games, then Nintendo is the right here. They are losing money by having smaller developers making money off IP they own, so shutting them down breaks one of the three silent rules.

But like AM2R.....Game Jolt has been around for years and these developers have been making thousands of these fan games a very long time. Nintendo now getting that hammer and smashing every single fan production to bits, is just odd. They could have done this years ago and continuing this would ensure people will not waste time making Nintendo Fan Productions.

Now, years of work people put into games on Game Jolt & the developer on AM2R is just washed away because Nintendo didn't shut them down right away or bother working with the developers to get them working with them on future games.

I'm not upset about this, as once fan games are in the wild, they will always be on the internet. But this will sour the fan base of Nintendo; they know now to do NOTHING with Nintendo IP unless they pitch it to Nintendo first. That is fine message to send, but then don't expect things like the abundant Sonic Fan Gaming/Hacking Community to be around.

Nintendo will be Nintendo and I will accept that, but they should be expecting to lose a pool of fans making content/talking about the company's titles in the future if they continually make moves like this.

 

[Instro]

Pretty much ensures that Nintendo fan projects are DoA from here on out.

 

[Jigorath]

Project AM2R had previously had DMCAs applied to its download hosts, but as of this morning has also had such a notice pointed at the lead developer's personal inbox. As a result, the game will no longer receive updates. So that's fun.

Well that's a shame.

 

[RealityCheque]

Yep, because AM2R is why the Metroid Federation Force isn't doing too well.....

If anyone hasn't downloaded it yet, give me a shout and I'll put it in a google drive link.

 

[Kyzer]

Maybe NeoGAF posters and Kotaku should learn not to proudly post fan games and hacks all over the web as if they're not illegal

So many mental gymnastics to justify being salty about copyright infringement law

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Worth pointing out that AM2R isn't JUST using Nintendo's characters or brand—it's using their story and level design as well. It's a remake of an existing, copyrighted Nintendo work.

So I really can't blame Nintendo for taking it down. I'm just glad they held off long enough for the project to be finished and released.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

You'd think the metroid fangame Nintendo would just collaborate with the dude. It's super easy money. Just leave the PC version in the wild. Pretend it doesnt exist and work with the dude on getting it on 3DS and WiiU. Pay dude a cut. Reap it all in. I understamd IP shit is big for companies but sometimes I wonder if they dont look at the business chance. This game at $10 is super easy money.

 

[Bloodporne]

Well, it's out in the wild gladly and absolutely fantastic for anyone who hasn't gotten their hands on it yet.

It's also perfectly playable at V1.1 or whatever the update was.

 

[Kyzer]

I wonder how many people playing and downloading the game actually own the original game.

 

[OmegaFax]

Mother 4 looks unique enough that Nintendo doesn't really have merit to take it down. Consider that Nintendo doesn't even use the Mother name in the United States or English around the world outside of Japan.

There's far less Nintendo can do if the game is a clone and runs with the concept.

 

[Jawbreaker]

I wonder how many people playing and downloading the game actually own the original game.

You seem really concerned about what other people are doing.

 

[RK128]

I wonder how many people playing and downloading the game actually own the original game.

I bought the original Metroid 2 for my 3DS last year. So I own the game when I got the remake.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I wonder how many people playing and downloading the game actually own the original game.

You'll never know the amswer to this question so why even ask?

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

Wow.
That sucks.
That sucks hard.

Lost a great amount of respect for Nintendo there.

 

[Mudcrab]

Maybe NeoGAF posters and Kotaku should learn not to proudly post fan games and hacks all over the web as if they're not illegal

So many mental gymnastics to justify being salty about copyright infringement law

Look on the bright side, now you have another chance to cheerlead your favorite corporation.

 

[Azure Dream]

I wonder how many people playing and downloading the game actually own the original game.

I own and beat the Game Boy version when it first came out.

Spoiler

"I wonder how many people playing it are DIRTY DIRTY PIRATES"

 

[RealityCheque]

I wonder how many people playing and downloading the game actually own the original game.

Its a fan remake distributed for free and doesn't financially benefit the creator in any way. If anything, it's quality reflects well on Nintendo's own Metroid games and would likely encourage people to buy and play them.

So, in answer to your question: who gives a fuck?

 

[Kyzer]

You seem really concerned about what other people are doing.

What? Because I have an opinion on the subject?

You think I literally want to know which members don't own the original game?

 

[Twiforce]

So many mental gymnastics to justify being salty about copyright infringement law

I know it's a perspective never really seen in these threads, but there is a legitimate political stance against intellectual property held by socialists.

 

[RK128]

I own and beat the Game Boy version when it first came out.

Spoiler

"I wonder how mang people playing it are DIRTY DIRTY PIRATES"

You mean....

Spoiler

"I wonder how many people playing it are DIRTY DIRTY SPACE PIRATES"

.

But to be serious, people shouldn't fell guilty to be playing a free game just because the original isn't on PC. Many Nintendo fans own Metroid 2 in some fashion and by the time many of us played AM2R, we owned at least one or two copies of Metroid 2.

 

[MUnited83]

Maybe NeoGAF posters and Kotaku should learn not to proudly post fan games and hacks all over the web as if they're not illegal

So many mental gymnastics to justify being salty about copyright infringement law

I mean, you dont need mental gymnastics to know copyright law is all sorts of broken.

 

[Mr-Joker]

The creator of AM2R had to know this would happen. Personally I'd go through and scrub any official assets and re-release it as an original game.

That's what he should have done in the first place and from what I have heard the guy seems to understand this, expected this to happen and hold no grudge against Nintendo.

Why? For all intents and purposes it is Metroid 2.

No it isn't. It's an unofficial fan game using Nintendo assets.

How is Mother 4 still alive?

That game will most likely be next, so they better change the name and scrub any reference to the Mother series.

I don't just mean gameplay ideas but the idea of certain characters, worlds, "IPs" if you will. I understand your point and you are absolutely right in legal terms. I just don't agree with the legal doctrine currently in place.

Why should a company let someone use their IP without their permission?

If a person wants to work on a company's IP then they should approach them with a Pitch, this is something that Next Level Games did when they wanted to work on a Metroid game.

Maybe NeoGAF posters and Kotaku should learn not to proudly post fan games and hacks all over the web as if they're not illegal

So many mental gymnastics to justify being salty about copyright infringement law

Agreed.

This game at $10 is super easy money.

Why sell it for $10 when they can clearly sell it for more and without having to share the profit with anyone else?

But to be serious, people shouldn't fell guilty to be playing a free game just because the original isn't on PC. Many Nintendo fans own Metroid 2 in some fashion and by the time many of us played AM2R, we owned at least one or two copies of Metroid 2.

You could buy 100 copies of Metroid 2 and it still doesn't make it okay, the game still uses Nintendo's asset so in their eyes it's thief plus it could potentially affect future remake of Metroid 2, affect sales of Metroid 2 on virtual console and most importantly could have the knock back affect of other folks doing remake of Nintendo other IP and giving it away for free something that Nintendo can't compete with.

 

[axisofweevils]

I think Nintendo has become stricter because games based on their IPs are no longer console exclusive. Once they entered the app store, these knock-off games became DOA.. Look at the fake, malicious Pokemon Go apps, for example. https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/18/beware-the-fake-pokemon-go-apps/

 

[Kyzer]

I bought the original Metroid 2 for my 3DS last year. So I own the game when I got the remake.

You'll never know the amswer to this question so why even ask?

Look on the bright side, now you have another chance to cheerlead your favorite corporation.

I own and beat the Game Boy version when it first came out.

Spoiler

"I wonder how many people playing it are DIRTY DIRTY PIRATES"

Its a fan remake distributed for free and doesn't financially benefit the creator in any way. If anything, it's quality reflects well on Nintendo's own Metroid games and would likely encourage people to buy and play them.

So, in answer to your question: who gives a fuck?

You tell me who really gives a fuck? Lol

I was making a point. Obviously. Characterizing me to be a corporate cheerleader or morally superior to "dirty pirates" doesn't take away from the parallel between piracy and downloading a repackaged game...

It's just interesting how everyone acts like homebrew is this innocent totally legal thing and when someone accidentally reveals they are pirating we all admonish it because we want to keep the legal right for what we are doing but when it comes to a game that literally someone repackaged and remade something that already exists and is available for sale, the idea of protecting copyrights and supporting the things you believe in with your wallet legally are suddenly corporate cheerleading, anti-consumer, and cmon Nintendo be chill bro, and all because the game is really good. lol

I was just pondering the potential of bootlegging and piracy. I was bringing it up because its part of the conversation. Think about what it is that you are trying to argue for the right to do. Recreate people's things and sell them cuz it's made of passion and it's done well?

And honestly repackaging the game into your own rom or whatever is even worse in terms of the law. You didn't just patch your game you repackaged and redistributed someone else's work entirely through your own channels

 

[Tye The Czar]

"Hey, guyz! Check out our newest installment in this series with stuff you DON'T WANT!"

"YOU DARE MAKE NON-PROFIT FAN WORKS THAT GIVE FANS WHAT THEY WANT?! YOU MUST DIE! *lightning bolt* *lightning bolt*

Yes, it's within their right to take them down, but, can't fan works be protected under fair use? Sega's been pretty good with looking the other way on most fangames(barring Streets of Rage Remake).

If Nintendo keep this up, it won't be just #FucKonami anymore on the web. And I doubt that such a hashtag would look good for their family-friendly image.

 

[MUnited83]

That's what he should have done in the first place and from what I have heard the guy seems to understand this, expected this to happen and hold no grudge against Nintendo.



No it isn't. It's an unofficial fan game using Nintendo assets.



That game will most likely be next, so they better change the name and scrub any reference to the Mother series.



Why should a company let someone use their IP without their permission?

If a person wants to work on a company's IP then they should approach them with a Pitch, this is something that Next Level Games did when they wanted to work on a Metroid game.



Agreed.



Why sell it for $10 when they can clearly sell it for more and without having to share the profit with anyone else?

Hmm, why are you using Frozen fanart as your avatar then?

 

[GamingOblivion]

Fuck you, Nintendo. I say this completely serious, without exaggeration. Fuck you.

 

[tkscz]

Isn't that big fan game site making money off those games via ads? Makes sense to nip that I'm the bud.

I mean, if that is the case then I understand, but at the same time, costs money to keep the servers up. Also, don't think Nintendo has ever gone this far before.

 

[Mudcrab]

Think about what it is that you are trying to argue for the right to do. Recreate people's things and sell them cuz it's made of passion and it's done well?

Is this what you think is happening with AM2R?

 

[Kyzer]

I mean, you dont need mental gymnastics to know copyright law is all sorts of broken.

That may be, in a myriad of ways, but not allowing people to redistribute HD remakes of your games for free is definitely not one of them. Lol

If this isn't copyright infringement nothing is.

Is this what you think is happening with AM2R?

How is it not? If it wasn't then there wouldn't be legal grounds to take it down. If he made it into his own thing it would have been fine. Even a Metroid parody or knock off would have been more legal.

 

[MUnited83]

You tell me who really gives a fuck? Lol

I was making a point. Obviously. Characterizing me to be a corporate cheerleader or morally superior to "dirty pirates" doesn't take away from the parallel between piracy and downloading a repackaged game...

It's just interesting how everyone acts like homebrew is this innocent totally legal thing and when someone accidentally reveals they are pirating we all admonish it because we want to keep the legal right for what we are doing but when it comes to a game that literally someone repackaged and remade something that already exists and is available for sale, the idea of protecting copyrights and supporting the things you believe in with your wallet legally are suddenly corporate cheerleading, anti-consumer, and cmon Nintendo be chill bro, and all because the game is really good. lol

I was just pondering the potential of bootlegging and piracy. I was bringing it up because its part of the conversation. Think about what it is that you are trying to argue for the right to do. Recreate people's things and sell them cuz it's made of passion and it's done well?

And honestly repackaging the game into your own rom or whatever is even worse in terms of the law. You didn't just patch your game you repackaged and redistributed someone else's work entirely through your own channels

Its crazy how little knowledge you have about AMR2.

 

[Kyzer]

Its crazy how little knowledge you have about AMR2.

Enlighten me , I was under the impression that it was said to be an HD remake of Metroid 2?

 

[Azure Dream]

Its crazy how little knowledge you have about AMR2.

I think they seriously think it's a repackaged ROM.

They also should probably change their avatar, as they have not sought the permission if Nintendo or The Pokémon Company for either of their art assets used, and those entities may not wish to be associated with that poster.

 

[GamingOblivion]

Enlighten me , I was under the impression that it was said to be an HD remake of Metroid 2?

Well, for one, he didn't sell anything.

Btw how fucking dare you use that Pokemon Avatar, did you get permission from Nintendo before using it for your own personal game on GAF? Delete it or you'll get a DMCA notice from Nintendo. You should only be using your own copyrighted creation as an Avatar.

 

[bman94]

Disappointing, though expected. I wish Nintendo was as good with their fan-creators as SEGA.

For real. Nintendo biggest problem is content. Why not throw these fan creators a bone and allow them to officially develop for Nintendo. Small games like Metroid 2 Remastered will help you fill in the gap and I'm pretty sure the development costs would be must less than if they did it internally.

 

[Seth]

Why do we keep making topics about nintendo shutting down stuff that clearly rips them off?

 

[MUnited83]

Enlighten me , I was under the impression that it was said to be an HD remake of Metroid 2?

Its not being sold like you're saying it is not a "repackaged ROM". Ita completely made from the ground up, it doesnt use Metroid 2 code. Its not a rom hack.

It barely even fucking uses Nintendo assets too.