Support NeoGAF

[DOT DASH DOT]

Eh, not really. HDR is way overhyped at the moment in my opinion. Real world results will be way less visible than people have been led to believe.

A mate of mine just played Gears 4 at EGX, and said he didn't even know if it was HDR or not, was on an S. But without context of a side by side comparison, maybe people wouldn't know!? Or the fact it's at a big show that's lit up and it ruins the HDR effect.....dunno but I'm a bit concerned with HDR and gaming, I've been looking forward to it, movies look great.

 

[Karak]

Please, I beg you, I know you tested this on a Samsung TV set.

Do you know/remember the settings of the console and TV for this?

And can you please clarify what you mean with

I do not. I have trips today but I can DM, or return here with the settings. I discussed this in the other thread that I had to fiddle a TON. That's just HDR for now.

And ya the HDR versus 720p -1080p thing. So though the blind polls show that most considered 4k +HDR to be requisite and the change to 4k alone isn't near as impact. I always know folks who say that they don't notice or care much about 720p-1080p? either or can barely notice.

Depending on set, game title, internal settings, and tv settings, there will be people where HDR just doesn't stoke them out. Exactly like those playing at 720p who doesn't really care.

HDR is more easily instantly noticed in 2 ways. Side by Side or after some time playing it and then seeing a none HDR screen. Sort of like how 720p is something you get accustomed to but then you see 1080p

 

[Ploid 3.0]

If HDR ends up being minor for games, I'll probably forget about it. I mainly watch movies at low quality especially netflix because of data caps. My next phone better have it though. Those crisp screens inches from my face.

 

[StudioTan]

I thought the HDR was spectacular.

I'm playing on a JVC DLA-RS400 projector on a 106" screen.

Most of you wouldn't want to game on that though because of the 130ms input lag but I didn't find it unplayable at all with a controller (I don't have a wheel), my brain adjusts to the delay.

For those of you trying HDR on your TVs for the first time you need to first make sure your TV is actually in HDR mode (deep colour) and you'll likely need to do some calibration.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

I thought the HDR was spectacular.

I'm playing on a JVC DLA-RS400 projector on a 106" screen.

Most of you wouldn't want to game on that though because of the 130ms input lag but I didn't find it unplayable at all with a controller (I don't have a wheel), my brain adjusts to the delay.

For those of you trying HDR on your TVs for the first time you need to first make sure your TV is actually in HDR mode (deep colour) and you'll likely need to do some calibration.

But that's the thing, Xbox games don't support WCG, so deep colour/extended wouldn't need to be selected.

 

[Impulsor]

I do not. I have trips today but I can DM, or return here with the settings. I discussed this in the other thread that I had to fiddle a TON. That's just HDR for now.

And ya the HDR versus 720p -1080p thing. So though the blind polls show that most considered 4k +HDR to be requisite and the change to 4k alone isn't near as impact. I always know folks who say that they don't notice or care much about 720p-1080p? either or can barely notice.

Depending on set, game title, internal settings, and tv settings, there will be people where HDR just doesn't stoke them out. Exactly like those playing at 720p who doesn't really care.

HDR is noticed better in 2 ways. Side by Side or after some time playing it and then seeing a none HDR screen. Sort of like how 720p is something you get accustomed to but then you see 1080p

That would Be awesome Karak, I'd really appreciate it.

In my case, I do notice hdr and I really enjoy watching movies with it, but something is just not right here.

 

[Karak]

I thought the HDR was spectacular.

I'm playing on a JVC DLA-RS400 projector on a 106" screen.

Most of you wouldn't want to game on that though because of the 130ms input lag but I didn't find it unplayable at all with a controller (I don't have a wheel), my brain adjusts to the delay.

For those of you trying HDR on your TVs for the first time you need to first make sure your TV is actually in HDR mode (deep colour) and you'll likely need to do some calibration.

Damn son. An owner of the coveted JVC HDR!
What screen you using? I am testing HDR projectors next but a bit crossed up on the best screen.

That would Be awesome Karas, I'd really appreciate it.

In my case, I do notice hdr and I really enjoy watching movies with it, but something is just not right here.

Ya sure man no probs.

 

[Later Alligator]

i have a samsung ks8000, pretty pumped to test this out

 

[Gitaroo]

I picked up the Sony x930D. Did I go wrong by not picking up the KS800/9000? I just felt the Sony had a better over all pic quality compared to the Samsung. What say you HDR experts?

if you are passed your return periord, better prey that the upcoming android 6 update will address the input lag issue.... Up in canada, the normal MSRP of the x930D and KS8000 are very close, if it wasn't for the input lag result posted by rtings, X930D would be a no brainer for me. Android tv means kodi, google cast built into the tv a long with emulators, all you need is ps3,4 controller. And X930D also have 3D.

This is helpful, thanks!


Rtings seems to prefer the KS8000 for image quality.

Overall for sure, keep in mind that the X800D is lower end after all but check their color rating

X800D

DCI P3 xy : 90.70 %
DCI P3 uv : 96.12 %
Rec 2020 xy : 68.49 %
Rec 2020 uv : 77.46 %

KS8000

DCI P3 xy : 91.31 %
DCI P3 uv : 95.87 %
Rec 2020 xy : 66.60 %
Rec 2020 uv : 74.32 %

I find that very interesting

 

[Krakatoa]

I played an hour with HDR, and so far I have been very impressed. Some things look amazing the rain, sunsets etc. To get a better feel I'm goin to have to play it later without HDR to see if I can see the benefits.

No issues with enabling HDR. As soon as I started the game my TV detected HDR. Went through the Video options at the start to whiteout the logo (f) and that was it.

Set up
LG UH8500 75
Xbox one S
ARC back to Yamaha receiver for sound. (5.1)

 

[EvB]

I played an hour with HDR, and so far I have been very impressed. Some things look amazing the rain, sunsets etc. To get a better feel I'm goin to have to play it later without HDR to see if I can see the benefits.

No issues with enabling HDR. As soon as I started the game my TV detected HDR. Went through the Video options at the start to whiteout the logo (f) and that was it.

Set up
LG UH8500 75
Xbox one S
ARC back to Yamaha receiver for sound. (5.1)

Interesting that you saw such a big difference when the UH8500 only has a peak output 15% of what UHDP sets can pull off.

 

[Karak]

I played an hour with HDR, and so far I have been very impressed. Some things look amazing the rain, sunsets etc. To get a better feel I'm goin to have to play it later without HDR to see if I can see the benefits.

No issues with enabling HDR. As soon as I started the game my TV detected HDR. Went through the Video options at the start to whiteout the logo (f) and that was it.

Set up
LG UH8500 75
Xbox one S
ARC back to Yamaha receiver for sound. (5.1)

Also the splashes of light in some areas are insane like wet pavement reflecting sunlight. Its like you suddenly have some card doing extra little shit inside the engine. Which is so great.

Interesting that you saw such a big difference when the UH8500 only has a peak output 15% of what UHDP sets can pull off.

Oh the difference is easily noticeable even on that tv with HDR content but you can only go up from there.

 

[Vuze]

Eh, not really. HDR is way overhyped at the moment in my opinion. Real world results will be way less visible than people have been led to believe.

Eh idk. HDR10 certainly enhances the image by a significant degree if done properly. Not to the degree that SDR would be unpleasant to watch or anything but for content I've seen (some Netflix shows and a bunch of demos) it just looked stunning.
Only problem for now is little content. I really hope it finds widespread adoption and that the enhancement in games is comparable to the one I saw in video.

 

[StudioTan]

Damn son. An owner of the coveted JVC HDR!
What screen you using? I am testing HDR projectors next but a bit crossed up on the best screen.

I've had projectors for a few years so I'm still using an old DaLite Model C that I purchased probably 8 years ago. 1.0 gain. A new screen will be my next upgrade.

I just got the JVC about a week ago and I'm TOTALLY in LOVE with it. I've been watching movies every night because of how good everything looks, the black levels on this projector are amazing, especially with UHDs. My previous projector was a BenQ w1070 and this is a huge upgrade, much bigger than I anticipated.

But that's the thing, Xbox games don't support WCG, so deep colour/extended wouldn't need to be selected.

How can it support HDR without WCG? Isn't that what HDR is? All I know is the game looked all washed out on my projector until I switched to my HDR colour profile and then everything popped. Bright colours and deep blacks.

 

[Krakatoa]

Interesting that you saw such a big difference when the UH8500 only has a peak output 15% of what UHDP sets can pull off.

I can't tell whether its a big difference yet, As I have only seen the HDR version.

Any other HDR owners feel their eyes burning after a gaming session? Maybe its just me getting old

Rtings for my TV http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/uh8500

They don't review the 75 inch though, its the same except it has a black bezel rather than a silver.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

I've had projectors for a few years so I'm still using an old DaLite Model C that I purchased probably 8 years ago. 1.0 gain. A new screen will be my next upgrade.

I just got the JVC about a week ago and I'm TOTALLY in LOVE with it. I've been watching movies every night because of how good everything looks, the black levels on this projector are amazing, especially with UHDs. My previous projector was a BenQ w1070 and this is a huge upgrade, much bigger than I anticipated.



How can it support HDR without WCG? Isn't that what HDR is? All I know is the game looked all washed out on my projector until I switched to my HDR colour profile and then everything popped. Bright colours and deep blacks.

To be fair I'm confused about how it works with the Xbox, games are not produced with WCG (bt2020) but they can still do HDR.....but it's not true HDR without 10bit wide colour.

 

[Pagusas]

I'll be getting it tonight and let you guys know, my 75x940c was made for this.

 

[scitek]

You're telling me that the Xbox One S does not display HDR 10 bit correctly for games?

No, the P-series currently does not.

 

[MANGOD]

For those that have been disappointed in hdr have you adjusted the hdr slider in options?

 

[Karak]

To be fair I'm confused about how it works with the Xbox, games are not produced with WCG (bt2020) but they can still do HDR.....but it's not true HDR without 10bit wide colour.

Wait your saying Forza Horizon 3 isn't using the 10-bit color space they say? Or do you mean "games" as you wrote it? Basically older games not made with full HDR support like Forza and NBA have?

I ask because Simon Cooke the engineer in the advanced Xbox Group stated "Xbox One has support for wide color-gamut, but not HDR." Xbox One S now has both.

And for full support for their planned HDR games you need according to Cooke (Full HDR(10bit) and Rec2020 support) in your tv.

 

[Lucifon]

If Horizon 3 is the norm for HDR in gaming then it's safe to say I kind of struggle to notice the difference. Side by side I imagine I'd probably spot it easily but from memory I'm constantly questioning myself "wait is that tree more vibrant? Maybe it's the same...? Is that sun/light shaft brighter?" etc. I feel like some of the talk of "HDR is a bigger game changer than 4k", "HDR is the real difference maker" etc are overblown because I can certainly very noticeably tell the difference in 1080p vs 4k but not with HDR (in Forza at least).

Don't get me wrong the game looks incredible and is a treat for the eyes but it looked amazing on the demo too. From memory I'm struggling to notice if it looks much better.

B6 OLED here.

 

[storybook77]

Game looks great on my Samsung 65" JS9000, dat skybox.

 

[Hawk269]

I have a Sony 75" 940D HDR enabled set and I think HDR mode in Forza Horizon 3 looks fantastic. I played this back to back with the PC version and set the PC version to 1080p to make the comparisons and it is a drastic difference. Driving through the forests and seeing the sun trying to break through and when you make the right turn and you get to see the sky/sun it looks fantastic. Certain scenes are pretty incredible. I did have to mess a lot with the games brightness and then the HDR brightness level so it did not look too dark, but also not take away from vividness of the colors. Right now, I have a great balance that makes it looks great.

When I get a chance today, I will re-download the demo to make a more 100% comparison, but going by memory and then using the PC version at the same framerate/resolution HDR for me has been a noticeable improvement in how the colors look.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

Wait your saying Forza Horizon 3 isn't using the 10-bit color space they say? Or do you mean "games" as you wrote it? Basically older games not made with full HDR support like Forza and NBA have?

I ask because Simon Cooke the engineer in the advanced Xbox Group stated "Xbox One has support for wide color-gamut, but not HDR." Xbox One S now has both.

And for full support for their planned HDR games you need according to Cooke (Full HDR(10bit) and Rec2020 support) in your tv.

I'm only going by what I read, I don't know where it's at now tbh, perhaps he meant for movies? I'm sure it was stated that games won't be made with WCG for quite some time.

Maybe others can chime in?

 

[branny]

Everyone is saying completely different things.

 

[icecold1983]

Eh, not really. HDR is way overhyped at the moment in my opinion. Real world results will be way less visible than people have been led to believe.

I havent seen any games but the difference when watching a movie is pretty big

 

[Karak]

I'm only going by what I read, I don't know where it's at now tbh, perhaps he meant for movies? I'm sure it was stated that games won't be made with WCG for quite some time.

Maybe others can chime in?

The engineer is stating it about games. So not sure. But its obviously working with HDR metadata coming fully across testing.

I havent seen any games but the difference when watching a movie is pretty big

Ya HDR is insanely different but because of how it displays it can be a bit unique to differentiate and thats if you have the settings right.

I have a Sony 75" 940D HDR enabled set and I think HDR mode in Forza Horizon 3 looks fantastic. I played this back to back with the PC version and set the PC version to 1080p to make the comparisons and it is a drastic difference. Driving through the forests and seeing the sun trying to break through and when you make the right turn and you get to see the sky/sun it looks fantastic. Certain scenes are pretty incredible. I did have to mess a lot with the games brightness and then the HDR brightness level so it did not look too dark, but also not take away from vividness of the colors. Right now, I have a great balance that makes it looks great.

When I get a chance today, I will re-download the demo to make a more 100% comparison, but going by memory and then using the PC version at the same framerate/resolution HDR for me has been a noticeable improvement in how the colors look.

Oh ya its insanely noticable. I switch back with just 1 button between PC and Xbox and there is a reason I am playing the Xbox version.

 

[storybook77]

I havent seen any games but the difference when watching a movie is pretty big

I think games will be more subtle since you are still seeing a stylized image. More gradual color changes, no banding, better blending, better contrast, etc.

Movies tend to have the "I feel like I'm there" kind of look.

 

[Karak]

I think games will be more subtle since you are still seeing a stylized image. More gradual color changes, no banding, better blending, better contrast, etc.

Movies tend to have the "I feel like I'm there" kind of look.

I think disagree. Look at batman on an HDR tv with the brighness and watch lightning. Its insane and that's not HDR. Look at both games side by side and drive through a raining locations when its just starting to sunshine.

 

[Hawk269]

The engineer is stating it about games. So not sure. But its obviously working with HDR metadata coming fully across testing.


Ya HDR is insanely different but because of how it displays it can be a bit unique to differentiate and thats if you have the settings right.



Oh ya its insanely noticable. I switch back with just 1 button between PC and Xbox and there is a reason I am playing the Xbox version.

LMAO. I was doing the same thing. I have both my PC and Xbox One (and PS4) all running through my Denon Receiver, so all games are using the same exact input and settings. What I would do to do comparisons is park the car in a certain spot and then do the same on the Xbox One version and just compare. It has been a pretty drastic differences between the 2 and even more so when the sun is in full without cloud cover. It looks even more impressive after a nice rainstorm and the sun starts to come out.

So for me and my gear, HDR has been pretty significant without it appearing washed out or anything. Now if we are talking Native 4k rendering on my PC version, yeah, that takes the cake even over HDR...but until a patch comes out for the PC version that eliminates the slight stuttering every 10seconds or so, I am playing the Xbox One S version.

 

[Karak]

LMAO. I was doing the same thing. I have both my PC and Xbox One (and PS4) all running through my Denon Receiver, so all games are using the same exact input and settings. What I would do to do comparisons is park the car in a certain spot and then do the same on the Xbox One version and just compare. It has been a pretty drastic differences between the 2 and even more so when the sun is in full without cloud cover. It looks even more impressive after a nice rainstorm and the sun starts to come out.

So for me and my gear, HDR has been pretty significant without it appearing washed out or anything. Now if we are talking Native 4k rendering on my PC version, yeah, that takes the cake even over HDR...but until a patch comes out for the PC version that eliminates the slight stuttering every 10seconds or so, I am playing the Xbox One S version.

Ya switching is really noticable

 

[storybook77]

I think disagree. Look at batman on an HDR tv with the brighness and watch lightning. Its insane and that's not HDR. Look at both games side by side and drive through a raining locations when its just starting to sunshine.

I played the demo of Forza and it looked great but the HDR makes it look even better, IMO. It is noticeable to me, but not nearly as noticeable as it is with a movie. We're talking about a tech that is still in its infancy though, mileage may vary.

I'm very interested to see how a game like Gears makes use of it since it makes heavy use of dark colors and lighting.

I'm certainly not insinuating that Forza is a game changer with HDR.

 

[Pagusas]

I have a Sony 75" 940D HDR enabled set and I think HDR mode in Forza Horizon 3 looks fantastic. I played this back to back with the PC version and set the PC version to 1080p to make the comparisons and it is a drastic difference. Driving through the forests and seeing the sun trying to break through and when you make the right turn and you get to see the sky/sun it looks fantastic. Certain scenes are pretty incredible. I did have to mess a lot with the games brightness and then the HDR brightness level so it did not look too dark, but also not take away from vividness of the colors. Right now, I have a great balance that makes it looks great.

When I get a chance today, I will re-download the demo to make a more 100% comparison, but going by memory and then using the PC version at the same framerate/resolution HDR for me has been a noticeable improvement in how the colors look.

Something to understand is MANY people in this thread are buying cheap edge lit HDR screens and will never get the impact of that sun breaking through at extreme brightness. I'm excited to see it tonight as our screens are basically the same, other HDR content already has blown me away (UHD Disc). Sony did an amazing juob on the 940 series.

I've said it in other threads, I'll repeat it here, STOP BUYING EDGE LIT HDR SCREENS. You will not get the intended picture or quality out of them, especially as HDR really takes off. Buy a faald, buy a oled capable of the brightness, buy anything other than an edgelit.

 

[storybook77]

Something to understand is MANY people in this thread are buying cheap edge lit HDR screens and will never get the impact of that sun breaking through at extreme brightness. I'm excited to see it tonight as our screens are basically the same, other HDR content already has blown me away (UHD Disc)

I've said it in other threads, I'll repeat it here, STOP BUYING EDGE LIT HDR SCREENS. You will not get the intended picture or quality out of them, especially as HDR really takes off. Buy a flad, buy a oled capable of the brightness, buy anything other than an edgelit.

I slightly disagree. If you are going to buy edge lit, then absolutely do your research. I love my JS9000, is it as good as the new FALD or OLED? No, but I didn't spend nearly as much and it's fine for me.

 

[Gitaroo]

did the demo get updated with hdr support?

 

[Hawk269]

did the demo get updated with hdr support?

Nope. Kind of wish it did for those that want to try it out and have not bought the game, but a good side effect is that it is easier to do comparisons since you don't have to go into the UI and turn off HDR to do a more apples to apples comparison.

 

[Angel_DvA]

did the demo get updated with hdr support?

Why would it ?

 

[etta]

I hope someone will post some side by side comparisons on an XBR800D.

 

[Spukc]

is 10-bits per sample HDR?
this whole hdr pr is so vague.

 

[GeoNeo]

This is an issue with HDR10 standard to be honest could look like shit depending on what set you're using unless you re-calibrate again happens with movies too..or they fucked up the PQ EOTF so it's ramping up incorrectly.

Dolby Vision would not have had these issues.

Oh well everyone can look forward to Dynamic HDR TV sets next year and the updates these consoles get.

 

[New002]

I thought the HDR was spectacular.

I'm playing on a JVC DLA-RS400 projector on a 106" screen.

Most of you wouldn't want to game on that though because of the 130ms input lag but I didn't find it unplayable at all with a controller (I don't have a wheel), my brain adjusts to the delay.

For those of you trying HDR on your TVs for the first time you need to first make sure your TV is actually in HDR mode (deep colour) and you'll likely need to do some calibration.

Man that must be a heck of an experience.

 

[Pagusas]

I slightly disagree. If you are going to buy edge lit, then absolutely do your research. I love my JS9000, is it as good as the new FALD or OLED? No, but I didn't spend nearly as much and it's fine for me.

I'm not saying they are bad TV's, thats a different discussion, and some can be extremely good, what they arent though is good at displaying the major features of HDR. I feel like a lot of people are going to be hard on HDR for not having the WOW effect they are looking for, and its going to be because they arent actually viewing it as intended. Edge lits can be great for many purposes, knowing them, researching as you said, is the important thing, and if you buy an edge lit, understand you are giving up a major feature of HDR by going wit it.

 

[etta]

Wait what's dynamic HDR? Can recent TVs get it via firmware updates?

 

[Lucifon]

Screenshots and videos seem broke in HDR mode. Whyyy Microsoft why

 

[Karak]

Edge lits can be great for many purposes, knowing them, researching as you said, is the important thing, and if you buy an edge lit, understand you are giving up a major feature of HDR by going wit it.

Agreed best to wait it is an impactor

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

I slightly disagree. If you are going to buy edge lit, then absolutely do your research. I love my JS9000, is it as good as the new FALD or OLED? No, but I didn't spend nearly as much and it's fine for me.

I've got the same TV, I'm impressed with how this TV displays, people say how edge lits get totally washed out by HDR, I'd say really!? Yes some clouding in some scenes can happen, but there's also scenes that you'd think were a torture test, and it has solid blacks, I've noticed with decent HDR I can even have the bias lighting off and it looks excellent.

 

[Harp]

x850 is trash atm for HDR, input lag is almost 100ms. X800D can stay consistantly low in 4K+HDR gaming, around 33ms, color is even better than the much higher end samsung ks8000. It not the great screen for HDR however due to the lack of local dimming and peak brightness is low. But it does have a 10bit panel that should take advantage of HDR. Avoid low end Samsung, they are nothing like their higher end, mostly trash too.

I have the xbr850c and I just got the ks8000 this week. I was expecting the ks8000 to blow the 850 out of the water, when it came to HDr. Using the Revenant on a Samsung UHD player. I would say the difference is minnimal. Yes the Samsung is brighter. But not to the point of making the picture better. The HDr highlights mainly fire in this movie pop on both tv sets.

Actually because in my current setup the Sony handles color, contrast and motion better then the Samsung, you actually see more detail on the 850. The Samsung over saturates color so much that on bright scenes it will look more vibrate, but the Sony will actually process more shades of the individual colors.

I have only had the Samsung for a couple of days and can probably adjust it to more of my liking via calibration.

I don't have the Xbox one s so I can't test games on either tv. But when it comes to HDR on the Revenant at least the difference between 282 nits verse a min of 542 on the Samsung does not make much difference.

 

[GeoNeo]

Wait what's dynamic HDR? Can recent TVs get it via firmware updates?

In the new spec the HDR Metadata is sent per frame/scene at the moment in "HDR10" that Metadata is set in stone and does not change per frame/scene.

Coming out next year and will require HDMI 2.1 prob better SOC to deal with the data don't expect any TV's to get updated support for Dynamic HDR.

 

[Harp]

One other thing about the ks8000 Samsung has made it very difficult to know what mode or type of signal it is receiving. And it weird that when in game mode and it has an hdr single you have to manually adjust the tv settings.

 

[MegaSackman]

This is an issue with HDR10 standard to be honest could look like shit depending on what set you're using unless you re-calibrate again happens with movies too..or they fucked up the PQ EOTF so it's ramping up incorrectly.

Dolby Vision would not have had these issues.

Oh well everyone can look forward to Dynamic HDR TV sets next year and the updates these consoles get.

"So, your TV has HDR10?"

"Don't you prefer Dolby Vision!?"