ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I would be pretty disappointed if it was less than 16-20. "Slightly better looking PS4 games @ native 4k" wouldn't be worth buying a new system that breaks compatibility for.
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Mark Cerny thinks 8TF is the minimum for native 4K gaming
- Thread starter Omnistalgic
- Start date
I would be pretty disappointed if it was less than 16-20. "Slightly better looking PS4 games @ native 4k" wouldn't be worth buying a new system that breaks compatibility for.
RichiRamjag
Member
Uh... Because they'd they'd rather not lie perhaps? Crazy concept I'm sure. I really am in shock that you'd prefer they make some shit up. The benefits they've outlined are more than enough for many of us.
Pretty much. Can't believe what I'm reading.
DriftingSpirit
Member
"Our console isn't native 4K but we're going to lie and be deceptive about it"
"Boooo Hisssss!!!"
"Our console isn't native 4K and we're going to be upfront about it and detail the techniques we use to create images somewhat on par with it"
"Boooo Hisssss!!!"
Omnistalgic
Member
lol...you going all out man...
Me, Im in the console camp, I used to install 15 different linux distros every year and get excited about the new command line language of each one. Yum and Su-get Sudo, etc...lol Used to swear by Android because of all the customization.
Now, I just dont have time, energy or desire for any of that stuff. Have a Mac Mini from 2012, iPhone and iPads because they just work, and love that my PS4 besides some occasional updates, is largely the same.
I do miss the customization, but dunno if Ill ever go back into building PCs again.
Self_Destructive
Member
It's going to be interesting when Scorpio hits. Of course.. Phil did state that Scorpio 4K first party games would target similar settings to their XO counterparts at 4K at similar framerates.
Here's F6:Apex running on a stock RX480 at 50-60fps Ultra dynamic preset with resolution forced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBOhII-FLZ8
RX480 is less than 6TFs.. and I'm sure with devs specifically coding to the hardware could push out 60fps locked on Scorpio with F6:Apex.
Here's F6:Apex running on a stock RX480 at 50-60fps Ultra dynamic preset with resolution forced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBOhII-FLZ8
RX480 is less than 6TFs.. and I'm sure with devs specifically coding to the hardware could push out 60fps locked on Scorpio with F6:Apex.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Idk i always wanted to build my own pc just for the fun of it and to play a few things I can't get on console. Slowly been putting that cash away
It is like people WANT Sony to lie. Sony being upfront about what the Pro can and cannot do is rather refreshing given to regular amount of BS we're feed in this industry.
That's Pro.
PS5 will have a large leg up because it will have hardware that is actually used in a vacuum in software.
Even right now with a lot of PC development, the consoles are used as barometers for what can and can not be pushed on PC, just like always.
a 10tflop GPU being pushed to the limit in 2019 in PS5 will be a true generational change.
ALso, i don't think you have to worry about breaking compatibility with PS5. They will prioritize BC with PS4/Pro titles, i have no doubt of this.
Omnistalgic
Member
What? It doesn't segment the user base like at all. Pro games only have enhancements if they are patched.
And releasing an 8TF upgrade even next year would still costs too much, not to mention, you are getting into a territory where its not longer a small optional upgrade, but all PS4 users would likely feel compelled to upgrade with that big a jump.
RichiRamjag
Member
I don't think it's worth it to wait. If I'm buying an 8tf device, I don't want it tied to a PS4 or xb1 dev-wise. When they make the jump to 10-12, I'd rather they be a generational upgrade game-wise.
It's funny, I get all excited and upgrade my PC and I end up playing the bulk of my stuff on consoles. Certain things that occur that I don't want to bother with.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Yeah, I would much rather they lie about it so we can have a 20+ page thread of gamer outrage.
Come on, Sony!
Ricerocket
Member
Is it not 6TF? They sure like to brag about that number right now.
Also...some people expecting single chip 16 to 20tflop GPU's in 2019 :l
I feel for ya. Its nice to dream.
Like the PS4 Pro.
There will be more 4K native games than Pro, but they will generally fall around the same level of rendering compromise needed for Pro to hit resolutions like 1800p.
Reconstruction and lower resolutions, as well as dynamic res will still be a thing.
Its not a bad thing at all.
That's what i'm generally doing. PS Pro is generally for folks who want the refined experiences right now instead of waiting for the generation to be over
I feel for ya. Its nice to dream.
Like the PS4 Pro.
There will be more 4K native games than Pro, but they will generally fall around the same level of rendering compromise needed for Pro to hit resolutions like 1800p.
Reconstruction and lower resolutions, as well as dynamic res will still be a thing.
Its not a bad thing at all.
That's what i'm generally doing. PS Pro is generally for folks who want the refined experiences right now instead of waiting for the generation to be over
Omnistalgic
Member
Don’t really follow you. We have a general idea of what Scorpio specs are just waiting for CPU and Ram count I believe.
Mark Cerny credentials speak louder than most anyone on GAF, and the man is saying 4.2 and 6 is really not enough in his opinion, the bar should start at 8TF for everything to be Native. Who’s dragging anything down? Scorpio is coming out later, anyone logical knows it’s going to have an advantage, we’re only speculating how much, and what the mid-gen gap actually will provide.
RichiRamjag
Member
It's what they've said. Folks are gonna speculate based on that. Those damn switch threads are nothing but speculation and they go deep lol. The comment hardly seems like it's dragging anything down though.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
There is a major difference between honesty and advertising. Sure, being upfront that their upgraded PS4 can't do native 4k is honest but it makes for an uncompelling reason to buy into their $400 upgrade.
Have fun waiting lol
Lol, that number ain't nothing without the rest of the spec sheet.
JordanN
Banned
There's more to power than TFLOPS.
Games like Uncharted 4 or The Order are already punching way above their weight on 1.8 Teraflops.
Where Sony needs to concentrate on is RAM. Every gen has been a 16x increase, so PS5 needs to deliver having 64GB of memory.
CanUKlehead
Member
Why not? I hope you're right obviously, but considering we have a subscription for PS3 games on PS4 and PS2 compatibility died on PS3 consoles in less than a year, not sure I'm feeling this.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
The Pro is mostly not native 4k and it doesn't break backwards compatibility with the PS4. An 8 TF system as the person I responded to quoted wouldn't really be good for a generational transition, because the 6-8 TF range is about where you need to be to give the games we're already getting now in native 4k. Ergo, you'd want a lot more than that.
64GB RAM would be a bit ludicrous. BD disc sizes might go up to 100gb but that's getting close to the point where the RAM is almost as large as game file sizes. We're not nearly as memory constrained as we were last gen, so an increase to 24-32GB would be more than adequate.
RichiRamjag
Member
That's your opinion man. Sold it to me, but I'm sure it may not appeal to everyone. I still don't get why lying about it via advertising is a better move.
What spec would better give us a better idea of potential resolution?
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
What's this mean if the rest isn't up to snuff it won't make much of a difference?
Ricerocket
Member
So tell me what else will boost resolution output?
Omnistalgic
Member
meh, Pro is weaker in specs than Scorpio so wouldn’t he be throwing shade on his own design since Scorpio is closer to the minimum than Pro?
I think it’s a slight jab perhaps, but overall Cerny is basically saying Pro is going to be good enough for many people, and early impressions seem to echo this sentiment.
Guys, I wasn't talking about Cerny lol. Also the only specs we have is 6TFPS and 320GBs, nothing else has been released.
Lion Heart
Banned
I think a 12TB PS5 running native 4k as the standard would be a waste of resources. You're going to get a current gen level of fidelity at 4k but the PS4 was a res boost and a huge increase in polys/geometry etc. Just stick with reconstruction or 4Kinda imo.
Either that or make a 15TF+ console
Either that or make a 15TF+ console
Nightengale
Member
Because of competition? Even if they initially planned for PS5 to not be BC with PS4, I think MS's plan should spur them to think of software emulation of PS4 on PS5 so that their next generation hardware is competitive out the gate.
I want the full specs list first before we can speculate, that's all.
RichiRamjag
Member
Fair enough, but as a few of us asked above, what spec would better give us an idea of potential resolution?
I'm not trying to be rude, but you don't sound familiar with the way this stuff works possibly if this is your stance.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Considering that it takes a GTX 1080 or Titan X(P) to get playable native 4K running on PC, this comes as no shock. I personally don't see many native 4K PS4P games hitting the market that are AAA. The exception being indie, remaster ports, or simulation (sports) games.
Upscale the games to 4K with HDR, thats nice. But in my opinion it's still way too early for native 4K gaming in the console market, and Cerny really understands what it takes hardware wise to push it.
I wonder what the tech will look like in 6-8 years.
Upscale the games to 4K with HDR, thats nice. But in my opinion it's still way too early for native 4K gaming in the console market, and Cerny really understands what it takes hardware wise to push it.
I wonder what the tech will look like in 6-8 years.
That's running the risk of development costs ballooning again, though.
RichiRamjag
Member
Until we can get 1080, 60fps on the regular they can keep 4k.
To be honest, I'm still wondering how they can do true 4K? I think it will be 4K for first party games and for some third party ones.
That's what I'm hoping that not only the PS4P to achieve, but also Scorpio. To some extent maybe NS.
1080p 60FPS standards on console first, then think about a res boost!
Exactly. It's the truth. You can get those type numbers now but it'd cost way more than the market will bear.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Omnistalgic
Member
lol..yeah, at this point, I would pay Sony $600 to just build me a custom Playstation every 4-5 years.
Let me choose my
CPU
RAM
HDD
Color
Controller Design
Hardware customization
Sony controls everything else
Send it straight to my house...
BAM!
Ricerocket
Member
This is why I already made up my mind with scorpio/pro, what a waste to put most of the resources into trying to achieve 4k.
RichiRamjag
Member
Exactly! I'm thinking that overclock may help with some games, we'll see though.
The pro made sense for me as I'm giving my son my old one, so it works out perfectly.
We can only dream for now lol. One day though!
Crayon
Member
It's a comment on 6tf a true 4k. And it's going to come up every time someone brings up the native 4k Scorpio between now and late 2017. Maybe he didn't mean for that to happen. But it will. Oops. It doesn't stick to the pro because they never promised full 4k.
Maybe I'm reading too much into it but you can't deny it casts doubt on the 6tf = 4k association from here on out.
JordanN
Banned
There's always more benefits for RAM. More memory can be used to load entire worlds and characters on the fly instead of having to rely on pop-in.
Sniffynose
Member
Yeah and that's with us running top tier quad or higher core i7s lol not shitty AMD mobile processors.
I'd like more than just a 4k render, but the balls to graphically back it up with good cpu power for ai and everything else.