Mark Cerny thinks 8TF is the minimum for native 4K gaming

Feb 8, 2018
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8tf is not needed for 4k gaming. But for gaming at "4k across the board" this gen, like Cerny said, it is true. Yes, the xox is more powerful than the pro, but it doesnt have 4k across the board. Both ps4pro and xox are cheaply made consoles, neither sony nor microsoft are doing any real effort in pushing specs forward.

Forza 7 is a very well developed 4k60 game that disguises its tricks and shortcomings quite well, but then what about pcars 2 and its much more detailed simulation.
even 8tf is not enough (if the TF alone would actually mean something). There are games that are only 1440p on xbox one x so you won't get much more with 2tf more. It always depends on the complete hardware and how much effort the developer puts into 4k optimization or 60fps optimization or visual optimization.
Just to use the flops, memory bandwidth, memory size, the ROP-count, ... to brute force almost everything to 4k will never happen (in the near future e.g. next-gen consoles).
The discussion about the GTX1060 TI is pointless, too. It can deliver in some situations an equal performance, but not across the board. No 500€/$ PC can at this point reach the speed of a xbox one x. This video there totally ignored some things.
- actual hardware prices (getting cheap used hardware is luck and not very realistic, I don't even get those old Intel CPUs that cheap; the 6GB 1060 alone costs $/€300 even Dec 2016)
- actual performance indications are missing (stable performance?, reduced resolution to reach the console performance)
- it has not even a 1TB harddrive (sry, but this Is really ridicules, even the HDD of the xbox one x is to small, what do you want with a 320GB HDD? Just play one game?)
- It totally misses the comfort of a console (e.g. controller, who plays a racing game with keyboard and mouse?)
- energy-levels
- noise? (almost silent PCs aren't cheap)

You can do the same with a ps4 pro. You won't currently find any PC hardware that delivers the same performance at the same price & visual fidelity. And no this has nothing to do with the magical FP16 support (which actually doesn't bring much performance).
 

JP

Member
Mar 7, 2010
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  • JP

    JP

I think what he said really needs to be read in context.

Do you need 8TF to run a game at a 4K resolution? No, of course not, the last generation of consoles were powerful enough to run games at 4K if they needed to even though it wouldn't be reasonable to expect anything but a custom developed game that was built purely to do that to be running at 4K.

I think it's pretty common sense that he wasn't talking about the minimum specs needed to render something in 4K would be 8TF but that to consider it to be correct to call a console a 4K console would need something around 8TF. That doesn't even mean that every single game would run on it at 4K just that it would seem reasonable to call a console a 4K console if it did have 8TF.
 
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Apr 7, 2006
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450$? So basically he is using OLD AND USED parts prices, and probably even stollen windows 10 key for 10$ (legit key is 100$ alone) and he compared that to NEW xbox X (with warranty and everything new). I'm not xbox fan (xbox fans on this site even say I'm xbox hater :p), but this is the most dishonest xbox X vs PC comparison video I have ever seen, and with current prices, even GTX 1060 is sometimes as expensive as xbox X (I have seen prices like that in my country).
You know what, this bit gave me a chuckle when I read it, but since this came in my youtube recommendations this morning, I felt I should link it....



Also, Jermgaming just found a 4 core 8 Thread Xeon processor to put in the potatoe masher for $16. I think he should put it in there, since more games will leverage more cpu cores in the future.......Zen has popularized high thread counts, even Unity is now pushing Multi-CPU cores to at least 95% of capacity, so it's a better fit.....



Also, as I said, GPU prices are already going down, GTX 1060 prices are just over the $300.00 price mark and it should shoot down a bit more in the coming weeks. The same applies to RX 580, they're beginning to go down....As I said, these things would stabilize, especially with the upcoming crypto cards, the memory situation abating and supply slowly ramping up to meet demand for all markets and demographics..

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...ESTMATCH&Description=gtx+1060&N=-1&isNodeId=1

Hell, you can get an RX 580 for under $400.00 now, so compared to a couple weeks back, things are normalizing.....
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...Description=rx+580&ignorear=0&N=-1&isNodeId=1
 
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Jan 17, 2018
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You can buy OEM copies of Windows for way cheaper. Only difference is it's locked to the mother board it's activated on but there's nothing illegal about it.
There is no way to tie it with MS account? I got mine from MS for free for using Windows Insider program, it's tied with my account and after changing my MB it still works.
 
Apr 16, 2009
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There is no way to tie it with MS account? I got mine from MS for free for using Windows Insider program, it's tied with my account and after changing my MB it still works.

I just remember it being amongst the pros and cons when I was researching building a pc a couple of years ago. Maybe it's different now or possibly different tiers? I'd have to double check.
 
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Jan 10, 2017
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There is no way to tie it with MS account? I got mine from MS for free for using Windows Insider program, it's tied with my account and after changing my MB it still works.

I have the free version and originally it was tied to the mb (had to call to reactivate every time I reinstalled)

But in the first big update they lifted the restriction and tied it to my Ms amount instead.

Im gonna guess this is the same across all versions as it seems to be the way they handle all keys now from what I can tell.
 
Jan 25, 2018
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All this talk of XBOX x v 1060/580, out of interest. What do you need for Ps4 Pro performance. Rx 470 or is that more powerful than Pro from 1440p up to 4k ?
 
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Jan 27, 2018
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You know what, this bit gave me a chuckle when I read it, but since this came in my youtube recommendations this morning, I felt I should link it....



Also, Jermgaming just found a 4 core 8 Thread Xeon processor to put in the potatoe masher for $16. I think he should put it in there, since more games will leverage more cpu cores in the future.......Zen has popularized high thread counts, even Unity is now pushing Multi-CPU cores to at least 95% of capacity, so it's a better fit.....



Also, as I said, GPU prices are already going down, GTX 1060 prices are just over the $300.00 price mark and it should shoot down a bit more in the coming weeks. The same applies to RX 580, they're beginning to go down....As I said, these things would stabilize, especially with the upcoming crypto cards, the memory situation abating and supply slowly ramping up to meet demand for all markets and demographics..

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...ESTMATCH&Description=gtx+1060&N=-1&isNodeId=1

Hell, you can get an RX 580 for under $400.00 now, so compared to a couple weeks back, things are normalizing.....
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...Description=rx+580&ignorear=0&N=-1&isNodeId=1
Sites like SCDKEY are offering keys that are either

1) Not-for-resale keys from an enterprise/government/education large scale license purchase
2) Legit keys purchased with stolen cards and then laundered
3) Keys purchased in cheaper market and then illegally sold to people

product keys being sold in this manner are 100% non-legitimate, since microsoft explicitly state that they don't resell keys in this way (despite the sellers claiming otherwise)

Quote from microsoft site

""Microsoft does not distribute products keys as standalone products. If you see a listing on an auction site, online classified ad, or other online page advertising product keys for sale, it’s a good indication that the keys are likely stolen or counterfeit. If you were to purchase and use a stolen or counterfeit product key to activate Windows installed on your PC, the key may not work for activation, may already be in use on another PC, or it might be blocked from use later by Microsoft when the key is reported
stolen.""
 
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Farrell55

Neo Member
Mar 16, 2018
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16gb Ram is far to low

My bet is
7nm 360mm2 apu 150 watt
8 core 16/threads Zen2 cpu @3.2ghz
14 tflops graphics core @ around 1.4ghz
32Gb gddr6/hbm Ram with around 1tf bw
14tf fp32
28tf fp16
21tf mixed, 50% fp32 and 50% fp16

Thats all by the end of 2020 for 400-500$ (maybe 449)