Mark Cerny thinks 8TF is the minimum for native 4K gaming

Apr 7, 2006
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You're moving the goalpost now. Cerny was provably wrong, and no matter how you try to spin it, so are you. I appreciate (and I'm sure Sony does as well) your fight, but why are you wasting your time arguing something that's provably false? It's even more a waste of time than those arguing the world is flat.

Cerny was wrong. There's nothing more to it. And it's okay. So was Bill Gates, Phil Spencer and everyone else in the world. Even you and me.

PS. Your idea that "Forza 7 is a very easy game to get 60 FPS in" just shows how little you actually know about game development.
The goalpost has always been the OP and that's where I've been, you're the one who went down another road.......So you come here to admit and dismiss what's right and wrong in the universe because you said it?????? Cerny was wrong and you're right and that's the gist of any post I've seen from you....So basically short tales from your........ss.....At least work on your tales next time.....why don't you..

And it's also really bad form to say to someone they don't know what development is about, don't ever assume you know someone over the other end of a forum post or that people are who they claim they are......I'll have you know that game development is not something covered in mystery or only realized in the dark corners of the earth......You'll be fooled to believe that anyone is taken aback and impressed with this veil of mysticism you enshroud game development under and assert yourself as one of the few souls who understands it.....You must be the last jedi of gaming development I assume, that Cerny is wrong and deluded and you're the shining light of GD wisdom.....

Also yes, Forza7 and Halo 5 Forge are some of the easiset games to run this gen..So is Superlucky, Killer Instinct et al...It doesn't take a jedi of game development to understand this obvious fact....Now, take these same GTX 970's, RX 470's and 480's and try running Kingdom come Deliverance at 4k at max settings...I'm pretty sure you followed this point the first time I made it...but reasons.....
 
Apr 17, 2007
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You're moving the goalpost now. Cerny was provably wrong, and no matter how you try to spin it, so are you. I appreciate (and I'm sure Sony does as well) your fight, but why are you wasting your time arguing something that's provably false? It's even more a waste of time than those arguing the world is flat.

Cerny was wrong. There's nothing more to it. And it's okay. So was Bill Gates, Phil Spencer and everyone else in the world. Even you and me.

PS. Your idea that "Forza 7 is a very easy game to get 60 FPS in" just shows how little you actually know about game development.
What's your resume on game development since you seem to know everything?

Also yes, Forza7 and Halo 5 Forge are some of the easiset games to run this gen..So is Superlucky, Killer Instinct et al...It doesn't take a jedi of game development to understand this obvious fact....Now, take these same GTX 970's, RX 470's and 480's and try running Kingdom come Deliverance at 4k at max settings...I'm pretty sure you followed this point the first time I made it...but reasons.....
Hey hey, don't knock the GTX 970 I had. It ran Rise of the Tomb Raider IN 4K!!!! Medium settings in the low 20fps :p.
 
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The goalpost has always been the OP and that's where I've been
No, you're moving the goalposts in order to create your own narrative. There's only one fact here. Cerny claimed that 8TF is the minimum for native 4k gaming. Both the Pro and the X1X has proved him wrong, since they both have actual native 4K games running on them, for bloody sake. It isn't that complicated, no matter how you try to spin it. You can write another essay claiming it's super easy to make games run at 4k60, if you want. There's a reason you were a laughing stock in the Next-Gen Racing Thread, you know.

What's your resume on game development since you seem to know everything?
I haven't claimed to "know" everything, so no need for the strawman. I'm not an expert in developing games, but claiming that it's "very easy" to get FM7 running at 4k60 is silly on a whole new level. Especially when it's apparantly done on a machine not capable of running 4k in the first place - at least according to our very own expert; thelastword.
 
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The goalpost has always been the OP and that's where I've been, you're the one who went down another road.......So you come here to admit and dismiss what's right and wrong in the universe because you said it?????? Cerny was wrong and you're right and that's the gist of any post I've seen from you....So basically short tales from your........ss.....At least work on your tales next time.....why don't you..

And it's also really bad form to say to someone they don't know what development is about, don't ever assume you know someone over the other end of a forum post or that people are who they claim they are......I'll have you know that game development is not something covered in mystery or only realized in the dark corners of the earth......You'll be fooled to believe that anyone is taken aback and impressed with this veil of mysticism you enshroud game development under and assert yourself as one of the few souls who understands it.....You must be the last jedi of gaming development I assume, that Cerny is wrong and deluded and you're the shining light of GD wisdom.....

Also yes, Forza7 and Halo 5 Forge are some of the easiset games to run this gen..So is Superlucky, Killer Instinct et al...It doesn't take a jedi of game development to understand this obvious fact....Now, take these same GTX 970's, RX 470's and 480's and try running Kingdom come Deliverance at 4k at max settings...I'm pretty sure you followed this point the first time I made it...but reasons.....
How you refer to games running on X1X must mean the PS4P is complete garbage considering it's quite a bit lacking in specs compared. Strange enough, you've never implied such. Wonder why...
 
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How you refer to games running on X1X must mean the PS4P is complete garbage considering it's quite a bit lacking in specs compared. Strange enough, you've never implied such. Wonder why...
It's evident by now his stance.

In anycase, I hope PS5 is super powerful, only good for consumers. And MS will respond in kind with next Xbox iteration.
 
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What's your resume on game development since you seem to know everything?
I think we all know what it is......Tales from his......X...ss

Hey hey, don't knock the GTX 970 I had. It ran Rise of the Tomb Raider IN 4K!!!! Medium settings in the low 20fps :p.
Hey.. not knocking it, it was a hell of a card minus the 3.5GB fiasco and still is as it can run Forza 7 in 4k 60 at console settings.

No, you're moving the goalposts in order to create your own narrative. There's only one fact here. Cerny claimed that 8TF is the minimum for native 4k gaming. Both the Pro and the X1X has proved him wrong, since they both have actual native 4K games running on them, for bloody sake. It isn't that complicated, no matter how you try to spin it. You can write another essay claiming it's super easy to make games run at 4k60, if you want. There's a reason you were a laughing stock in the Next-Gen Racing Thread, you know.



I haven't claimed to "know" everything, so no need for the strawman. I'm not an expert in developing games, but claiming that it's "very easy" to get FM7 running at 4k60 is silly on a whole new level. Especially when it's apparantly done on a machine not capable of running 4k in the first place - at least according to our very own expert; thelastword.
Dude don't waste my time, if you're only here to troll then why post....I'm pretty sure the PS3 or vanilla PS4 could push some 4k games too, hell, even the PS2 if they had the monitors back then. The point was to create a console where the majority of it's games are 4k at current generation graphical settings, not the odd game. Cerny knew PRO would not be that 4k native machine for the majority of titles, so they mentioned what it would take to get there at a minimum and of course I'm sure pushing PRO to 8TF was not justified due to cost and PRO not being a new generation.

You bolted in this thread throwing allegations and making statements which you don't bother proving, all I'm doing is presenting data instead of presenting myself as the end all be all. So everything you accuse me of is exactly what you're doing because this is what you said when you entered the thread....


"Who, in their right mind, can argue that X1X doesn't do 4k60 (or even 4k30) easily"

Yes, it sure is doing 4k 60/30fps easily in every other title........;( minus your very taxing super lucky et al...

And since somene said PRO is a 470 as if PRO could not run Forza 7, Superlucky and Killer Intinct at 4k 60fps. here is a 470 lighting a fire in Forza 7 at 4k 60fps at ultra settings......,
Such resource hogs these games are, super taxing indeed. Only the XBONEX can run them at 4k native....;(


How you refer to games running on X1X must mean the PS4P is complete garbage considering it's quite a bit lacking in specs compared. Strange enough, you've never implied such. Wonder why...
Funny, I've never called the XBONEX garbage. If a 4.2TF GPU is garbage to you then a 6TF is probably just in another dumpster the other side of the street, but of course you know I've never said that.....

Also for your information, PRO was never hyped as a "true 4k machine, no compromises, highest quality pixels nirvana machine", I guess PRO must be garbage as you said, because it should be compared to the XBOX ONE-S, where upscaling, checkerboard rendering and all those sub standard rendering methods apply. Garbage like that don't apply to the XBONEX....It's a true 4k machine, no compromises, best framerates.....;(
 
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Also yes, Forza7 and Halo 5 Forge are some of the easiset games to run this gen..So is Superlucky, Killer Instinct et al...It doesn't take a jedi of game development to understand this obvious fact....Now, take these same GTX 970's, RX 470's and 480's and try running Kingdom come Deliverance at 4k at max settings...I'm pretty sure you followed this point the first time I made it...but reasons.....
Are GT: Sport, Killzone: Shadowfall and, I don't know, Street Fighter 5 some of the easiest games to run this gen as well?
 
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I think we all know what it is......Tales from his......X...ss



Hey.. not knocking it, it was a hell of a card minus the 3.5GB fiasco and still is as it can run Forza 7 in 4k 60 at console settings.

Dude don't waste my time, if you're only here to troll then why post....I'm pretty sure the PS3 or vanilla PS4 could push some 4k games too, hell, even the PS2 if they had the monitors back then. The point was to create a console where the majority of it's games are 4k at current generation graphical settings, not the odd game. Cerny knew PRO would not be that 4k native machine for the majority of titles, so they mentioned what it would take to get there at a minimum and of course I'm sure pushing PRO to 8TF was not justified due to cost and PRO not being a new generation.

You bolted in this thread throwing allegations and making statements which you don't bother proving, all I'm doing is presenting data instead of presenting myself as the end all be all. So everything you accuse me of is exactly what you're doing because this is what you said when you entered the thread....


"Who, in their right mind, can argue that X1X doesn't do 4k60 (or even 4k30) easily"

Yes, it sure is doing 4k 60/30fps easily in every other title........;( minus your very taxing super lucky et al...

And since somene said PRO is a 470 as if PRO could not run Forza 7, Superlucky and Killer Intinct at 4k 60fps. here is a 470 lighting a fire in Forza 7 at 4k 60fps at ultra settings......,
Such resource hogs these games are, super taxing indeed. Only the XBONEX can run them at 4k native....;(


Funny, I've never called the XBONEX garbage. If a 4.2TF GPU is garbage to you then a 6TF is probably just in another dumpster the other side of the street, but of course you know I've never said that.....

Also for your information, PRO was never hyped as a "true 4k machine, no compromises, highest quality pixels nirvana machine", I guess PRO must be garbage as you said, because it should be compared to the XBOX ONE-S, where upscaling, checkerboard rendering and all those sub standard rendering methods apply. Garbage like that don't apply to the XBONEX....It's a true 4k machine, no compromises, best framerates.....;(
I believe both the X1X and Pro are great machines for what they are designed for. Nice try at dodging the issue, though. Lol. For you, the X is always lacking in hardware performance, while the Pro is just not utilized by developers correctly. X is MS fault. Pro is developers fault. See the difference? The reality is, they were designed well by both MS and Sony to bring higher fidelity to 4k televisions and they both accomplish that for the most part in their own ways. X coming out a year later means it is able to achieve closer to that 4k target and achieve it in almost all MS first party games, which is what MS was always referring to with 4k games. It's extrenely obvious that they have no control over 3rd party games and what developers target and optimize for on the X. You know this, of course, but insist that MS was lying or whatever your agenda constantly is when discussing Xbox. You also consistently poke at that true 4k statement when Sony does market the Pro as a 4k console as well but does not reach that target 9 out of 10 times. It's called marketing buzz words and both companies participate in this practice. Remember the used game jab sony took at MS even though that wasn't true at all? Of course you don't as Sony could never do such a thing as buzz marketing, right? Cerny was wrong. It does not take 8TF to achieve 4k with this generations games as evident by many games released already and no putting words in his mouth that he didn't even say like "at max settings" will change that fact. Maybe he meant 8TF fp16. Lol
 
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Are GT: Sport, Killzone: Shadowfall and, I don't know, Street Fighter 5 some of the easiest games to run this gen as well?
Well you've seen GT Sports car models and lighting, mirrors everything are at 60fps, even replays if you have a PRO, it's only running 1800CB on a PRO. I don't think the 470 would run this at 4k 60fps if there were a PC version to maybe push AA, Reflections, MB, Shadows and other effects even further, to say to traditional max settings? not a chance, would be a struggle even as it is....This is a game with real time shadows, better foliage, better ATD over Forza...I mean the proof is in the pudding.......

Now, I'll tell you something about shadowfall, I have a million pics of that game, some effects you don't even pick up on screens is in that game, yet it's a launch title...and I have no problems telling you, that if this game was pro patched, it would not be 4k native...CB 2160 is my best hope and perhaps 1080p locked 60fps for multiplayer or 1800CB. Shadowfall is a graphical tour de force and there's no way this game would be 4k 60fps on a 470, if it were on PC, farless if there was an ultra setting option to boost visuals from the PS4 code.....I think you may forget how impressive shadowfall looks and the tech behind it, there's no way Halo 5 is in the same ballpark.....

Yet, none of what I've said on Forza 7 or Halo 5 is based on if there was a PC version, what I've said about Halo 5 is based on Forge on PC, what I've said about Forza 7 is based on it running on Rx 470's and GTX 970's......and the same applies to super lucky, killer instinct etc....

As for SFV, I don't why you bring it up, but I'll tell you this.....Even with the arcade edition patch, it's still 1080p 60fps on PRO, no rez boost from what I'm seeing....The menu though looks to be 4k from my vantage point.........I'll also tell you that I run it on PC with a lowly 750ti at low settings with 50% resolution scale at 1440p and yet, it's not locked 60fps as I can still feel a few dips and stutters every now and then, my riva tuner stats and OSD reports the same....... As for the 970, I believe a vanilla GTX 970 can do high settings at 1440p or ultra with a few settings on high or medium for a perfect lock.

Here it is running at at 1440p on a 970 at max, with a good OC no doubt and it still can't hold a locked 60fps...


Here it is running at 4k on a 970 at low settings...


I guess I can't impress upon you how framey it is, the video is evidence enough.
 
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Well you've seen GT Sports car models and lighting, mirrors everything are at 60fps, even replays if you have a PRO, it's only running 1800CB on a PRO. I don't think the 470 would run this at 4k 60fps if there were a PC version to maybe push AA, Reflections, MB, Shadows and other effects even further, to say to traditional max settings? not a chance, would be a struggle even as it is....This is a game with real time shadows, better foliage, better ATD over Forza...I mean the proof is in the pudding.......

Now, I'll tell you something about shadowfall, I have a million pics of that game, some effects you don't even pick up on screens is in that game, yet it's a launch title...and I have no problems telling you, that if this game was pro patched, it would not be 4k native...CB 2160 is my best hope and perhaps 1080p locked 60fps for multiplayer or 1800CB. Shadowfall is a graphical tour de force and there's no way this game would be 4k 60fps on a 470, if it were on PC, farless if there was an ultra setting option to boost visuals from the PS4 code.....I think you may forget how impressive shadowfall looks and the tech behind it, there's no way Halo 5 is in the same ballpark.....

Yet, none of what I've said on Forza 7 or Halo 5 is based on if there was a PC version, what I've said about Halo 5 is based on Forge on PC, what I've said about Forza 7 is based on it running on Rx 470's and GTX 970's......and the same applies to super lucky, killer instinct etc....

As for SFV, I don't why you bring it up, but I'll tell you this.....Even with the arcade edition patch, it's still 1080p 60fps on PRO, no rez boost from what I'm seeing....The menu though looks to be 4k from my vantage point.........I'll also tell you that I run it on PC with a lowly 750ti at low settings with 50% resolution scale at 1440p and yet, it's not locked 60fps as I can still feel a few dips and stutters every now and then, my riva tuner stats and OSD reports the same....... As for the 970, I believe a vanilla GTX 970 can do high settings at 1440p or ultra with a few settings on high or medium for a perfect lock.

I guess I can't impress upon you how framey it is, the video is evidence enough.
Just brought up SFV because it was a fighting game. Didn't really need it in there. Only needed GT:S to make my point.

GT:S does not run everything at 60fps. Reflections in GT:S when using in car or hood cam are nowhere near 60fps. They aren't even 30. Lighting is unreal though. Pretty sure Forza has higher res textures, better LOD and so on. But I get. Everything from Sony is superior to anything from Microsoft.

I'm out.
 
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I believe both the X1X and Pro are great machines for what they are designed for. Nice try at dodging the issue, though. Lol. For you, the X is always lacking in hardware performance, while the Pro is just not utilized by developers correctly. X is MS fault. Pro is developers fault. See the difference? The reality is, they were designed well by both MS and Sony to bring higher fidelity to 4k televisions and they both accomplish that for the most part in their own ways. X coming out a year later means it is able to achieve closer to that 4k target and achieve it in almost all MS first party games, which is what MS was always referring to with 4k games. It's extrenely obvious that they have no control over 3rd party games and what developers target and optimize for on the X. You know this, of course, but insist that MS was lying or whatever your agenda constantly is when discussing Xbox. You also consistently poke at that true 4k statement when Sony does market the Pro as a 4k console as well but does not reach that target 9 out of 10 times. It's called marketing buzz words and both companies participate in this practice. Remember the used game jab sony took at MS even though that wasn't true at all? Of course you don't as Sony could never do such a thing as buzz marketing, right? Cerny was wrong. It does not take 8TF to achieve 4k with this generations games as evident by many games released already and no putting words in his mouth that he didn't even say like "at max settings" will change that fact. Maybe he meant 8TF fp16. Lol
Have you even read the thread title or read Cerny's words or did you just see a big X in the sky calling you to cape-on? At least batman has a valid enough reason.....Dude, all XBOX-ONE launch games could be 1080p, they all could be 60fps...Do you see where I'm going? I'm sure you do, this is what you and your pals are doing, it's disingenuos at best.......You really think Cerny was saying that no other GPU below 8TF could ever do 4k? You can't begin to convince me you think that Luv, not by a longshot....

Since I think you guys are trolling, I'll just say this one more time....Cerny made it clear that the PRO would not do the majority of it's games at 4k native, unlike PS4 which was built for 1080p and guess what, 98% of it's titles were at 1080p....Cerny said you need a minimum of 8TF to shoot up rez to 4k and logic would dictate that going from a 1.84TF machine to 8TF was just over 4x the raw power of the vanilla machine. So 4k for the majority of PS4-PRO ports would require about 8TF......8TF was never viable for a mid-gen refresh though, so they settled for 4.2TF, included some neat vega extras and some custom hardware for CB, included the ID buffer plus other bits so developers could put a sharp 4k image via CB.......There's no way Sony would do 8TF for a mid gen in 2016, what would they price it at $800.00? with the Jaguar CPU still in there? Hey, MS launched a whole year later after pro with only 6TF + the jaguar and they're at $500.00, so 8TF a year before that.....I mean come on....

Still, the whole point of this is that Cerny made it clear, that PRO was not going to be a 4k native, uncompromised pixels machine, no upscaling, best framerate machine....He said suckers better get ready for some CB, some geometry rendering et al and yes upscaling too and if the title is not too taxing on the GPU then 4k native it is.....It's funny that X-fans like to speak of the beastly powers of 4.2+1.8=6TF and say how PRO looks garbage in comparison, but can't fathom that 6+2=8TF would be even more of an uplift from XBONEX over PRO and get those 1800p and DR games to 2160p alas.....

BTW, besides the super demanding Forza 7, Super Lucky Tales and Killer Instinct, how many exclusive games are 4k native on the XBONEX? It must be swimming in those I imagine....One point though, Killer instinct has no better settings than the launch XBOX-ONE, minus maybe AF on XBONEX....It drops below 60fps anytime there's heavy alpha on screen as opposed to a PC RX 480 which is locked 60fps through out....All that XBONEX bandwidth though....


Eh. Take Killzone out of there. It's only 30 fps in single player.
Hmmm, why take it out now.....You're in too deep...besides, I think you've realized you've made my point. Shadowfall for your information was unlocked and averages around 40-45 fps......It's just too GPU heavy to be a 4k 60fps game, so I think PRO can do 1440p/CB 2160 60fps in single player and 1080p 60fps in multiplayer........
 
Likes: daibaron
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I think we all know what it is......Tales from his......X...ss





Yes, it sure is doing 4k 60/30fps easily in every other title........;( minus your very taxing super lucky et al...

And since somene said PRO is a 470 as if PRO could not run Forza 7, Superlucky and Killer Intinct at 4k 60fps. here is a 470 lighting a fire in Forza 7 at 4k 60fps at ultra settings......,
Such resource hogs these games are, super taxing indeed. Only the XBONEX can run them at 4k native....;(


But that RX 470 isn't ultra settings and the RX 470 and Ryzen 1400 is more powerful than the Ps4 Pro anyway.
 
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Dude don't waste my time, if you're only here to troll then why post....I'm pretty sure the PS3 or vanilla PS4 could push some 4k games too, hell, even the PS2 if they had the monitors back then. The point was to create a console where the majority of it's games are 4k at current generation graphical settings, not the odd game. Cerny knew PRO would not be that 4k native machine for the majority of titles, so they mentioned what it would take to get there at a minimum and of course I'm sure pushing PRO to 8TF was not justified due to cost and PRO not being a new generation.

You bolted in this thread throwing allegations and making statements which you don't bother proving, all I'm doing is presenting data instead of presenting myself as the end all be all. So everything you accuse me of is exactly what you're doing because this is what you said when you entered the thread....
I'm not your dude, friend.

I honestly don't understand why it's that hard for you to understand why Cerny was wrong. Have you even _read_ what Cerny is quoted for? He specifically said that 8TF was the minimum required to render at 4k native. That's been proven wrong by the numerous games running at 4k. You can try to twist and spin it in order for you to continue your brave defense of Sony, but you and me both know that you're moving the goalposts, since it's impossible to defend what Cerny said.

I'm willing to bet, that if Cerny had said that "4,2 TF is enough to run at 4k", you would have argued that 6TF was overkill and absolutely not needed.
 
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I think the last word is a comedy poster at this point, basically here to gather replies and wind people up for some future comedy blog. I’ve never seen somebody so in love with a plastic box before, it’s unreal. People like this actually exist in the world? Truly remarkable...

Cerny was quoted as saying 8tf as a minimum for 4k with visual fidelity at what it is right now. As in, PS4 looking titles but st 4k. There’s no other way to spin what he said, that’s what he said, end of discussion. He couldn’t possibly talk about future generations because 8tf isn’t enough for a generational leap in graphics AND 4k resolution. It’s just not going to work.

However...

He was wrong. Kind of. It was an over estimate, which has been proven wrong. You can do this generations graphical fidelity at 4k just fine, with a little work. Some games are better at this that others either due to a) developer skill or b) they were pushing too hard in the first place. I say he was wrong “kind of” because the 6.2tf Xbox one x CAN do 4k, just not 100% of the time for 100% of the titles.

But the bottom line is that it CAN do 4k a lot of the time. Meaning that he was wrong. It’s not required 8tf. Once again however i will state that you could throw 12tf into a machine... it doesn’t mean you will hit 4k. It all depends on the game, and what it’s rendering. Fillrate heavy games with a lot of cpu calculations will have no chance.

So there it is. End of discussion. He was wrong, but not entirely. Both plastic pieces of nothing were right and wrong. Both sides are tied.

Move on with your life. Go outside before Russia kills us all. Be happy. And somebody please explain to me what the damn 3 sea shells do...
 
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Swizzle

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Nov 24, 2014
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I think the last word is a comedy poster at this point, basically here to gather replies and wind people up for some future comedy blog. I’ve never seen somebody so in love with a plastic box before, it’s unreal. People like this actually exist in the world? Truly remarkable...

Cerny was quoted as saying 8tf as a minimum for 4k with visual fidelity at what it is right now. As in, PS4 looking titles but st 4k. There’s no other way to spin what he said, that’s what he said, end of discussion. He couldn’t possibly talk about future generations because 8tf isn’t enough for a generational leap in graphics AND 4k resolution. It’s just not going to work.

However...

He was wrong. Kind of. It was an over estimate, which has been proven wrong. You can do this generations graphical fidelity at 4k just fine, with a little work. Some games are better at this that others either due to a) developer skill or b) they were pushing too hard in the first place. I say he was wrong “kind of” because the 6.2tf Xbox one x CAN do 4k, just not 100% of the time for 100% of the titles.

But the bottom line is that it CAN do 4k a lot of the time. Meaning that he was wrong. It’s not required 8tf. Once again however i will state that you could throw 12tf into a machine... it doesn’t mean you will hit 4k. It all depends on the game, and what it’s rendering. Fillrate heavy games with a lot of cpu calculations will have no chance.

So there it is. End of discussion. He was wrong, but not entirely. Both plastic pieces of nothing were right and wrong. Both sides are tied.

Move on with your life. Go outside before Russia kills us all. Be happy. And somebody please explain to me what the damn 3 sea shells do...
So Cerny was wrong, if you set aside the fact that he is right ;).
 
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Alx

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You can't even blame Cerny, he was clearly wrong on purpose. Since he designed the PS4 pro and will probably design the PS5, it was natural for him to claim "right now the PSpro is the right compromise, 6TF isn't enough for true 4K". The fact that no configuration is ever "enough" to do whatever you want can be used as an excuse when games releasing in 4K contradict his statement. If we nitpick with the same arguments, then we should say that PS4 specs aren't enough for true 1080p, since many games don't reach that resolution, or some that do dynamically drop below from time to time.
 
So Cerny was wrong, if you set aside the fact that he is right ;).
That's... Not what I said at all. Because you can do 4k games at this generations fidelity on 6.2tf. You can even do them with pairing back, at the lower Pro spec. So no, he was wrong. It all depends on context however. In his talk, he was more aiming at this generations fidelity at 4k, and said it wasn't theoretically possible... Yet we have seen that it is. He gave a ball park figure, a guess, and it got confusing. You don't need 8tf of power for 4k gaming at this generations fidelity, and you need more than 8tf of power for a generational leap at 4k. That's all. Its all guess work, regardless.
 
Likes: MilkyJoe
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Just brought up SFV because it was a fighting game. Didn't really need it in there. Only needed GT:S to make my point.

GT:S does not run everything at 60fps. Reflections in GT:S when using in car or hood cam are nowhere near 60fps. They aren't even 30. Lighting is unreal though. Pretty sure Forza has higher res textures, better LOD and so on. But I get. Everything from Sony is superior to anything from Microsoft.

I'm out.
Well, all the games you mentioned are more taxing than what's on XBOX-ONE, by a good degree...

Shadowfall vs Halo5
GTS vs Forza 7
SFV vs Killer Instinct (btw killer instinct looks ghastly and I have it on PC, char models, textures, art direction, animation)

Well, he did say “minimum.”
I'm pretty sure these guys know that...... they're just trying to be obtuse about it...

I'm not your dude, friend.
I know, I don't own any dudes. Hence why I said "dude" and not "my dude" ;)

I honestly don't understand why it's that hard for you to understand why Cerny was wrong. Have you even _read_ what Cerny is quoted for? He specifically said that 8TF was the minimum required to render at 4k native. That's been proven wrong by the numerous games running at 4k. You can try to twist and spin it in order for you to continue your brave defense of Sony, but you and me both know that you're moving the goalposts, since it's impossible to defend what Cerny said.

I'm willing to bet, that if Cerny had said that "4,2 TF is enough to run at 4k", you would have argued that 6TF was overkill and absolutely not needed.
There's nothing hard for me to understand, I'm not spinning anything, you are or being purposefully obtuse to a very silly degree, but it's enlightening that all of a sudden X-fans have the best take on what Cerny means......I mean Cerny is so silly that he says/knows a PRO would have 4k native games, but he is saying "only 8TF can do 4k".....and I'm the one spinning.....This is such a poor kindergarten spin, that I will just quote an article on what Cerny actually said.........

Furthermore, Cerny stated that (according to his personal opinion), a console needs at least (minimum of) 8 TeraFlops of GPU to achieve native 4K resolution across the board.
https://www.gamepur.com/news/24791-...ative-4k-8-teraflops-minimum-requirement.html


I underlined/bolded the most important part for those just being silly about it, and that ends that.....

Cerny was quoted as saying 8tf as a minimum for 4k with visual fidelity at what it is right now. As in, PS4 looking titles but st 4k. There’s no other way to spin what he said, that’s what he said, end of discussion. He couldn’t possibly talk about future generations because 8tf isn’t enough for a generational leap in graphics AND 4k resolution. It’s just not going to work.
Holy smokes, if you don't read, don't mention my name to such a chaff intro...

Do you think I disagree with that or I'm saying something different....I don't want to do an ONQ, but I guess I have no choice...

thelastword said:
The way I see it, just for clarification. Cerny was mostly talking about first parties and multiplatforms hitting 4k a bit more consistently (in this generation)....The same won't apply for next gen as assets, textures, worlds get larger and more detailed, fidelity, AA, shadows, even alpha etc....can no longer be low rez or half rez at 4k or 8k. So next gen we will need much more power to fuel 4k great looking games at a consistent clip, so when I hear people saying 12TF as if it's the holy grail and sufficient, no that's not going to cut it........It's not close to enough.

So running in a thread with a blown gasket and you don't even know who said what and what you're talking about, it's looking ridiculous....So looking at that last quote which I posted days ago, ,tell me where I said 8TF will be enough for next gen.....and tell me therin what you surmise is so left field or illogical or perhaps different to what you're saying?????..There's no comeback from that btw, so just keep on trucking...

He was wrong. Kind of. It was an over estimate, which has been proven wrong. You can do this generations graphical fidelity at 4k just fine, with a little work. Some games are better at this that others either due to a) developer skill or b) they were pushing too hard in the first place. I say he was wrong “kind of” because the 6.2tf Xbox one x CAN do 4k, just not 100% of the time for 100% of the titles.
So your over the top crusade gets sillier, and you want to play both sides??? So according to you, he meant 8TF would do 4k with this generation's titles and not next gen, but you also want to say 6TF can do the equivalent of 8TF with some tweaking when it's just not doing it for the majority of XBONEX titles. Even 1800p and DR games are missing effects and even then framerate struggles in some of these titles.....So even with a little work it's not happening....Skyrim Remastered is DR and stilll is not a locked 30, fortnite is about 1550p natively on XBONEX, and uses temporal upsampling to get to 1728p.....You know what, devs are trying things on XBONEX, but none of that results in 4k native across the board....

And BTW, you're also wrong on XBONEX TF count, it's not 6.2TF...according to my calculations, XBONEX has 4 more CU's over RX 480/580 but a lower clock speed...So we're looking at 40 CU's.....which means 2560 SP's or Cuda's if you are an Nvidia guy.......2560 x 1172 x 2 = 6, 000, 640 divided by a mil that's 6.000640TF or 6TF......

So there it is. End of discussion.
Yes, Indeed....
 
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besides the super demanding Forza 7, Super Lucky Tales and Killer Instinct, how many exclusive games are 4k native on the XBONEX? It must be swimming in those I imagine....One point though, Killer instinct has no better settings than the launch XBOX-ONE, minus maybe AF on XBONEX....It drops below 60fps anytime there's heavy alpha on screen as opposed to a PC RX 480 which is locked 60fps through out....All that XBONEX bandwidth though....
Xbox one doesn't have many exclusives to begin with, but in fact many AAA games run in true 4K native on xbox X, and all the rest that use dynamic 4K looks very similar to native 4K on HDTV (from normal viewing distance is totally impossible to tell if you are playing native 4K or dynamic 4K game). When it comes to killer instinct, I have seen RX 580 gameplay at 4K with dips 48fps, so RX 480 should also dip below 60fps target.

Picture quality aspect looks very good on xbox X although graphics fidelity is another thing, PS4 games like the order or uncharted 4 are still unmatched when it comes to details and lighting.

I think the last word is a comedy poster at this point, basically here to gather replies and wind people up for some future comedy blog. I’ve never seen somebody so in love with a plastic box before, it’s unreal. People like this actually exist in the world? Truly remarkable...

Cerny was quoted as saying 8tf as a minimum for 4k with visual fidelity at what it is right now. As in, PS4 looking titles but st 4k. There’s no other way to spin what he said, that’s what he said, end of discussion. He couldn’t possibly talk about future generations because 8tf isn’t enough for a generational leap in graphics AND 4k resolution. It’s just not going to work.

However...

He was wrong. Kind of. It was an over estimate, which has been proven wrong. You can do this generations graphical fidelity at 4k just fine, with a little work. Some games are better at this that others either due to a) developer skill or b) they were pushing too hard in the first place. I say he was wrong “kind of” because the 6.2tf Xbox one x CAN do 4k, just not 100% of the time for 100% of the titles.

But the bottom line is that it CAN do 4k a lot of the time. Meaning that he was wrong. It’s not required 8tf. Once again however i will state that you could throw 12tf into a machine... it doesn’t mean you will hit 4k. It all depends on the game, and what it’s rendering. Fillrate heavy games with a lot of cpu calculations will have no chance.

So there it is. End of discussion. He was wrong, but not entirely. Both plastic pieces of nothing were right and wrong. Both sides are tied.

Move on with your life. Go outside before Russia kills us all. Be happy. And somebody please explain to me what the damn 3 sea shells do...
Great post but we also need to consider tflops are not everything. Xbox X has just 40% tflops more compared to PS4P GPU, yet it can render even 2.2x more pixels in some games thanks to much more efficient architecture. So xbox X is 6 tflops console, but with enough power to run xbox one games at 4K with the same graphics fidelity as standard xbox one (and some games like gears of war 4 and forza horizon 3 looks use even higher graphics fidelity at the same time). Xbox X GPU architecture is much improved compared to standard polaris, and in games like wolfenstein 2 cards like RX 580 and GTX 1060 are not even close. Wolfenstein 2 performance on GTX 1060 at 4K dynamic + low/medium settings 45-55 fps, while xbox run the same game at 55-60 fps with even higher settings (game is almost maxed out according to DF). The same with forza 7, 45 fps dips at 4K and high settings (not to menion ultra settings) on GTX 1060 doesnt look good compared to xbox X results in that game.

But fast GPU is not everything, xbox X CPU is to slow and cant provide 60fps without tricks (it can be done with framerate upscaling) in most games. I hope next xbox will have fast GPU and CPU at the same time because 60fps always provide better experience with the same game.
 
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There's nothing hard for me to understand, I'm not spinning anything, you are or being purposefully obtuse to a very silly degree, but it's enlightening that all of a sudden X-fans have the best take on what Cerny means......I mean Cerny is so silly that he says/knows a PRO would have 4k native games, but he is saying "only 8TF can do 4k".....and I'm the one spinning.....This is such a poor kindergarten spin, that I will just quote an article on what Cerny actually said.........
I swear it's like talking to a brick wall with you. You have his words, black on white, and yet you start to interpret them in a different way, because you desperately want him to be right. He's not your friend, you know. You don't need to defend him.
 
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Can anyone tell me if a console with 10Tflops and a Ryzen 3.2Ghz with 16GB GDDR6 is able to deliver graphics more impressive than the PS3 jump to the PS4 in the comparison scale? Or will the jump be similar?

I already know that as far as the AI, Physics, Ambient Distroction, World Size, Environment the jump will be gigantic. But in relation to graphic fidelity? Will we at least see something as relevant as the jump from PS3 to PS4, but this time in 4k? I'd like someone to make these scalability comparisons for me.

I find it very interesting...

You may find little but I would be impressed with a machine with 10Tflops, 3.2Ghz and 16GB GDDR6 for only $ 399!

actually, no.
the problem is that the visible jumps get smaller. The mid gen consoles make this even more difficult.
at first we get a small jump and overtime it gets bigger.
but, btw the jump from ps3/xb360 to the current gen wasn't that big for most people.
we won't get those big jumps like from ps2 to ps3 or ps1 to ps2 anymore, or only if the technology behind would really change.
 
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Xbox one doesn't have many exclusives to begin with, but in fact many AAA games run in true 4K native on xbox X, and all the rest that use dynamic 4K looks very similar to native 4K on HDTV (from normal viewing distance is totally impossible to tell if you are playing native 4K or dynamic 4K game). When it comes to killer instinct, I have seen RX 580 gameplay at 4K with dips 48fps, so RX 480 should also dip below 60fps target.
The question is not about a nice image, but what power you need to get 4k native on these titles at a minimum....So, there are few XBONEX games that are native 4k, especially exclusive and AAA.....

As for Killer Instinct and the RX 580.......In this comparison, the 580 handles 4k at max locked 60fps no matter what...Check it out from 3:55 or so...


Xbox X GPU architecture is much improved compared to standard polaris, and in games like wolfenstein 2 cards like RX 580 and GTX 1060 are not even close. Wolfenstein 2 performance on GTX 1060 at 4K dynamic + low/medium settings 45-55 fps, while xbox run the same game at 55-60 fps with even higher settings (game is almost maxed out according to DF). The same with forza 7, 45 fps dips at 4K and high settings (not to menion ultra settings) on GTX 1060 doesnt look good compared to xbox X results in that game.

But fast GPU is not everything, xbox X CPU is to slow and cant provide 60fps without tricks (it can be done with framerate upscaling). I hope next xbox will have fast GPU and CPU at the same time.
Are you sure that you only get 45-55fps with a 1060 on med to low settings? Even then, that may not be too surprising since AMD hardware does better in this game.....Still I think the consoles have quite a few settings on low or medium in this game too, self shadowing, lower AF and shadows and a more dynamic and lower average rez....As for forza 7 on a 1060, yes AMD hardware does better on that too, but a 1060 can do do 4k 60fps in Forza 7 easily...Here...
 
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actually, no.
the problem is that the visible jumps get smaller. The mid gen consoles make this even more difficult.
at first we get a small jump and overtime it gets bigger.
but, btw the jump from ps3/xb360 to the current gen wasn't that big for most people.
we won't get those big jumps like from ps2 to ps3 or ps1 to ps2 anymore, or only if the technology behind would really change.
Does this happen because of the pixel requirement the industry has made when selling TVs and HD devices? PSONE resolution was 640x480 and PS2 resolution was pretty much the same. All hardware resources were invested in graphics. From PS2 to PS3 the resolution was multiplied to just under 3 times. So the hardware features were well leveraged for graphics. But now the industry wants to push the consoles to 4K resolution which is basically 4 times more pixel per frame than a PS4 can do. And they still want to include superior graphics. This is virtually impossible with the power we have today.

If the PS5 jumped to the 2k (1440p), it would be much easier to deliver futuristic graphics. What do you think?
 
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Great post but we also need to consider tflops are not everything. Xbox X has just 40% tflops more compared to PS4P GPU, yet it can render even 2.2x more pixels in some games thanks to much more efficient architecture. So xbox X is 6 tflops console, but with enough power to run xbox one games at 4K with the same graphics fidelity as standard xbox one (and some games like gears of war 4 and forza horizon 3 looks use even higher graphics fidelity at the same time). Xbox X GPU architecture is much improved compared to standard polaris, and in games like wolfenstein 2 cards like RX 580 and GTX 1060 are not even close. Wolfenstein 2 performance on GTX 1060 at 4K dynamic + low/medium settings 45-55 fps, while xbox run the same game at 55-60 fps with even higher settings (game is almost maxed out according to DF). The same with forza 7, 45 fps dips at 4K and high settings (not to menion ultra settings) on GTX 1060 doesnt look good compared to xbox X results in that game.

But fast GPU is not everything, xbox X CPU is to slow and cant provide 60fps without tricks (it can be done with framerate upscaling) in most games. I hope next xbox will have fast GPU and CPU at the same time because 60fps always provide better experience with the same game.
I'm not sure where you're getting your infos from but the 1060 GTX either tied or beat the Xbox One X in these tests.
 
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The question is not about a nice image, but what power you need to get 4k native on these titles at a minimum....So, there are few XBONEX games that are native 4k, especially exclusive and AAA.....

As for Killer Instinct and the RX 580.......In this comparison, the 580 handles 4k at max locked 60fps no matter what...Check it out from 3:55 or so...



Are you sure that you only get 45-55fps with a 1060 on med to low settings? Even then, that may not be too surprising since AMD hardware does better in this game.....Still I think the consoles have quite a few settings on low or medium in this game too, self shadowing, lower AF and shadows and a more dynamic and lower average rez....As for forza 7 on a 1060, yes AMD hardware does better on that too, but a 1060 can do do 4k 60fps in Forza 7 easily...Here...
see for yourself 50 fps dips on RX 580 (40s mark in that video)

Also forza 7
35 fps dips with ultra settings + MSAAx8, and 45 fps dips with high settings + MSAAx4. Xbox X is using EQAA and settings (MSAAx2 basically plus additional coverage samples, it's like CSAA on Nv cards) but even MSAAx2 gameplays stilll show similar dips, and I can also show you MSAAx2 gampelays on GTX 1060. One guy here on neogaf have said these results are wrong, so I have asked him to post his gameplay, but his results were similar. Basically, results in that video are correct, and GTX 1060 simply cant provide xbox X quality and performance in that particular game.

GTX 1060 results with optimised drivers for forza 7


Wolfenstein 2
45-55 fps, low/medium settings, 4K dynamic. Yes, RX 580 performance is better in that game compared to GTX 1060, according to gamegpu test results not that much better to make a difference :p (only 1-4 fps difference at 4K). Wolfenstein 2 on xbox x runs at higer settings thatn low/medium settings for sure, and still performance is better. Results like that are not surprising, xbox X is basically RX 580 on steroids. RX 580 on PC doesnt have vega features like delta color compression (that feature alone speed up performance in high resolution quite a bit), and dx12 features build into a chip, so no wonder xbox X GPU is faster than RX 580.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/xbox-scorpio-dx12-built-directly-into-gpu.1358475/
"The bottom line is that Scorpio's six teraflops will almost certainly go a lot further than an equivalent PC part"
This is what Digital Foundry have said, baiscally no 6 tflops GPU on PC market cant match xbox X GPU performance because of these improvements.

But again, GPU performance is not everything. Xbox X has very good picture quality, thats for sure, but graphics fidelity still looks best on PS4 (games like like the order or uncharted 4 have no match, only Unreal Engine 4 tech demos on PC looks comparable).
 
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Does this happen because of the pixel requirement the industry has made when selling TVs and HD devices? PSONE resolution was 640x480 and PS2 resolution was pretty much the same. All hardware resources were invested in graphics. From PS2 to PS3 the resolution was multiplied to just under 3 times. So the hardware features were well leveraged for graphics. But now the industry wants to push the consoles to 4K resolution which is basically 4 times more pixel per frame than a PS4 can do. And they still want to include superior graphics. This is virtually impossible with the power we have today.

If the PS5 jumped to the 2k (1440p), it would be much easier to deliver futuristic graphics. What do you think?
It always depends on the game. There are some really good looking 720p games on the current gen. The problem with resolution is, it is "easy" to increase the res, but is has not the biggest impact on the visual quality.
That may change in the future if we go beyond 55-60" displays, so you can even see the pixels of a 4k resolution. But in the near future that won't change.
Even the current hardware can do everything just with a lower res. A new 2020 console could make it higher res and with better assets, but the res and assets on PS4pro/xb1x are already quite high. so a jump from these consoles can look quite underwhelming.
Only exception, if we get a few more features that can't be done on the older hardware. But as it looks now, there is nothing revolutionary coming. Not much has changed what developers can do with the consoles since xb360/ps3. They have more power and memory available, but nothing revolutionary like fully programable pixel shaders or something like that, what we already got with the last gen.

the good thing about this, game developers must get creative to make their games stand out from the mass. Graphics is not everything.

you know what I really love about my X, it loads a bit faster and it is dead silent (or at least on a level it does not distract).
 
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It always depends on the game. There are some really good looking 720p games on the current gen. The problem with resolution is, it is "easy" to increase the res, but is has not the biggest impact on the visual quality.
That may change in the future if we go beyond 55-60" displays, so you can even see the pixels of a 4k resolution. But in the near future that won't change.
Even the current hardware can do everything just with a lower res. A new 2020 console could make it higher res and with better assets, but the res and assets on PS4pro/xb1x are already quite high. so a jump from these consoles can look quite underwhelming.
Only exception, if we get a few more features that can't be done on the older hardware. But as it looks now, there is nothing revolutionary coming. Not much has changed what developers can do with the consoles since xb360/ps3. They have more power and memory available, but nothing revolutionary like fully programable pixel shaders or something like that, what we already got with the last gen.

the good thing about this, game developers must get creative to make their games stand out from the mass. Graphics is not everything.

you know what I really love about my X, it loads a bit faster and it is dead silent (or at least on a level it does not distract).
Do you believe the NAVI will be able to deliver a huge and much higher Teraflops jump than VEGA delivered? Or is it just another modest and basic leap?
 
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I'm sorry :p

2k =2048×1080

But anyway? If the PS5 jumps to 1440p could we achieve good visual results?
Hey, I don't think 1440p is going to be viable next gen, there are no 1440p TV's and consoles follow TV specs....So we're looking at 480p-720p-1080p-4k-8k-16k........I think the consoles will have enough power to push some great visuals at 4k next gen, so I'm not concerned about that.....We are already seeing some great looking titles at 1440p on PRO like UC4, even if it was only developed with a 1.84TF spec and just rez boosted....So if UC4 was handled ground up at 1440p on the 4.2TF spec, I think it would be a good bit be more impressive.....so I think this gen can already handle great looking titles with a 1440p foot print, even though there are no ground up games with the 4.2TF spec....Zero Dawn is pushing about a good bit over a 1440p footprint with it's 2160CB and even that is not a ground up 4.2TF game, but they're all mighty impressive nonetheless. Imagine if DC was at 1440p or 2160CB patched, Killzone Shadowfall or the order 1886, they would all be about the 1440p spec or above with CB 2160 and they would concrete themselves as the best looking games this gen with improved IQ......even if there is more that these devs could muster if say there was a DC 2 built ground up at 1440p or CB 2160 with a 4.2TF spec......Hey, the upcoming GOW has a 2160CB footprint which is more than 1440p and that is looking a norse slaying riot this gen....

In essence, 1440p is already showing great visuals this gen on mid gen consoles even though underutilized due to vanilla consoles lower specs...... So next gen will have more than enough power to do 4k native, so you will be blown away by your 30fps TPS and your 60fps COD's, racers and fighters all at 4k......More 60fps games next gen too, because we will have a decent CPU this time around.....More open world games at 60fps, next gen seems really promising to me. My only regret this gen is that there was no Ninja Gaiden 4.....


I'm not sure where you're getting your infos from but the 1060 GTX either tied or beat the Xbox One X in these tests.
Yeah that germ video is pretty solid, even the games where he gives a tie, the potato masher wins technically...I linked @pawel86ck some videos as well, 1060 flies in Forza 7 at 4k.....Wish germ would do an update of the potatoe masher series with some of the newer games like Wolfenstein2, Kingdom Come Deliverance, FF15, PUBG, Resident Evil 7 and even some earlier games like Prey and Dishonored 2......
 
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Hey, I don't think 1440p is going to be viable next gen, there are no 1440p TV's and consoles follow TV specs....So we're looking at 480p-720p-1080p-4k-8k-16k........I think the consoles will have enough power to push some great visuals at 4k next gen, so I'm not concerned about that.....We are already seeing some great looking titles at 1440p on PRO like UC4, even if it was only developed with a 1.84TF spec and just rez boosted....So if UC4 was handled ground up at 1440p on the 4.2TF spec, I think it would be a good bit be more impressive.....so I think this gen can already handle great looking titles with a 1440p foot print, even though there are no ground up games with the 4.2TF spec....Zero Dawn is pushing about a good bit over a 1440p footprint with it's 2160CB and even that is not a ground up 4.2TF game, but they're all mighty impressive nonetheless. Imagine if DC was at 1440p or 2160CB patched, Killzone Shadowfall or the order 1886, they would all be about the 1440p spec or above with CB 2160 and they would concrete themselves as the best looking games this gen with improved IQ......even if there is more that these devs could muster if say there was a DC 2 built ground up at 1440p or CB 2160 with a 4.2TF spec......Hey, the upcoming GOW has a 2160CB footprint which is more than 1440p and that is looking a norse slaying riot this gen....

In essence, 1440p is already showing great visuals this gen on mid gen consoles even though underutilized due to vanilla consoles lower specs...... So next gen will have more than enough power to do 4k native, so you will be blown away by your 30fps TPS and your 60fps COD's, racers and fighters all at 4k......More 60fps games next gen too, because we will have a decent CPU this time around.....More open world games at 60fps, next gen seems really promising to me. My only regret this gen is that there was no Ninja Gaiden 4.....


Yeah that germ video is pretty solid, even the games where he gives a tie, the potato masher wins technically...I linked @pawel86ck some videos as well, 1060 flies in Forza 7 at 4k.....Wish germ would do an update of the potatoe masher series with some of the newer games like Wolfenstein2, Kingdom Come Deliverance, FF15, PUBG, Resident Evil 7 and even some earlier games like Prey and Dishonored 2......
Do you believe the NAVI will be able to deliver a huge and much higher Teraflops jump than VEGA delivered? Or is it just another modest and basic leap?
 
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Do you believe the NAVI will be able to deliver a huge and much higher Teraflops jump than VEGA delivered? Or is it just another modest and basic leap?
Navi is a whole new technology...from the rumor mill Navi is going to be built on a proper multi-gpu architecture.......Just as Ryzen and Threadripper innovated with CCX + IF, Navi is going to put several GPU's on a single die......Infinity Fabric GPU with some silicon also slotted for A.I......I think it's going to be revolutionary in design.....30-40TF out of those cards won't be out of the ordinary in the final analysis....New architecture, new node, new features, new gains...It's something to look forward to.......
 
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Navi is a whole new technology...from the rumor mill Navi is going to be built on a proper multi-gpu architecture.......Just as Ryzen and Threadripper innovated with CCX + IF, Navi is going to put several GPU's on a single die......Infinity Fabric GPU with some silicon also slotted for A.I......I think it's going to be revolutionary in design.....30-40TF out of those cards won't be out of the ordinary in the final analysis....New architecture, new node, new features, new gains...It's something to look forward to.......
Thank you for answering my questions.

If the PS5 is announced at the end of 2019 and launched on the market from the beginning of 2020 it will come with which mainstream architecture? The architecture of 2019 or the improvements that will arrive in 2020?

Is there any chance that a PS5 will be outfitted with a 2020 GPU model prior to its launch in the PC market by trading deals with AMD (maybe Nvidia, who knows)?
 
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I'm not sure where you're getting your infos from but the 1060 GTX either tied or beat the Xbox One X in these tests.
Hardly Digital Foundry that video, very vague when it comes to settings.

Anyway here's DF latest Burnout Paradise Remaster 4k 60fps, 580 drops quite often and so does 1060 when Xbox stays solid 60fps. However there is a certain area on the X drops to 50 fps when their is nothing going on, probably a bug as its solid 60fps when their is crashes etc.
 
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Thank you for answering my questions.

If the PS5 is announced at the end of 2019 and launched on the market from the beginning of 2020 it will come with which mainstream architecture? The architecture of 2019 or the improvements that will arrive in 2020?

Is there any chance that a PS5 will be outfitted with a 2020 GPU model prior to its launch in the PC market by trading deals with AMD (maybe Nvidia, who knows)?
Navi is supposed to drop in 2019 but you never know with delays et al.... If the PS5 drops in November 2019 it will be decked with AMD GPU technology that exists in at least April of 2019 for the latest.....(or slighlty later).....Navi should be there at this point...if not then PS5 will have 7nm Vega....





In November 2020, that's almost 2021, Next Gen Arch or perhaps Navi 7nm+ will be available, so PS5 will be decked with Next Gen, which may very well be Navi 7nm+ for all we know......either way it's looking likely that PS5 will have Navi.
 
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Navi is supposed to drop in 2019 but you never know with delays et al.... If the PS5 drops in November 2019 it will be decked with AMD GPU technology that exists in at least April of 2019 for the latest.....(or slighlty later).....Navi should be there at this point...if not then PS5 will have 7nm Vega....





In November 2020, that's almost 2021, Next Gen Arch or perhaps Navi 7nm+ will be available, so PS5 will be decked with Next Gen, which may very well be Navi 7nm+ for all we know......either way it's looking likely that PS5 will have Navi.
Next year will be full of exclusive games. I think SONY has no need to announce a new console before 2020. From 2020, SONY could announce a new console with 100% solid architecture.

But by the way.
What are your predictions? How many Tflops? What date of announcement and launch? CPU? Memory?
 
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Watch they release a 8.1 TF PS5 machine haha. Honestly, I'd be down for efficiency as well as raw power. Seeing how the X can pull off some great things with just 6TF, Sony would kill it with an 8TF machine.
 
Apr 17, 2007
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Hardly Digital Foundry that video, very vague when it comes to settings.

Anyway here's DF latest Burnout Paradise Remaster 4k 60fps, 580 drops quite often and so does 1060 when Xbox stays solid 60fps. However there is a certain area on the X drops to 50 fps when their is nothing going on, probably a bug as its solid 60fps when their is crashes etc.
Why did you just link a DF comparison of an old game vs a remaster? That was pointless.
 

TGO

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Sep 5, 2007
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What are arguing about here?
Cerny said 8TF is the minimum needed for 4k gaming, based on the One X performance an extra 2TF does seem believably needed for all games to be native 4k.
He seems to be spot on.