Mark Cerny thinks 8TF is the minimum for native 4K gaming

Leonidas

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Time has proven Mark Cerny 100% correct on this issue. Microsoft promised "uncompromised" native 4K gaming when they revealed Scorpio at E3 2016 yet 95% of enhanced Xbox One X games are dynamic and only a small fraction manage to maintain a native 4K image without dropping.

In future game threads when people discuss examples of rhetoric not matching reality, Scorpio will feature prominently.
MS first party devs must be wizards. Gears 4, Killer Instinct, Forza Horizon 3, Forza 7, Super Lucky's Tale, Halo Wars 2 all run at native uncompromised 4K without a resolution scalar, some of them even 60fps. Those are all current gen games that run at up to 1080p on the S, all running in native 4K on the X.

Seems pretty clear to me that Cerny's 8 Tflop statement is for PS4. Look at the difference in power.

Xbox One/S = 1.35 Tflops. Xbox One X = 6 Tflops. That is 4.4x difference. Xbox One games at 1080p can be done at native 4K as we've already seen and in the case of Killer Instinct they took a 900p game and made it 4K.

8 Tflops divided by PS4(1.8 Tflops) = 4.4x difference(the same ratio as Xbox One/S vs Xbox One X.

PS4 = 1.8 Tflops. PS4 Pro = 4.2 Tflops. Only a 2.3x difference. Only leads to around 2x increase in resolution in GPU heavy titles which is why PS4 Pro relies on rendering only around half of a true 4K image in demanding and first party Sony titles.
 
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Time has proven Mark Cerny 100% correct on this issue. Microsoft promised "uncompromised" native 4K gaming when they revealed Scorpio at E3 2016 yet 95% of enhanced Xbox One X games are dynamic and only a small fraction manage to maintain a native 4K image without dropping.

In future game threads when people discuss examples of rhetoric not matching reality, Scorpio will feature prominently.
Precisely......Lots of dynamic games, settings are not at maximum quality and still the 6TF machine struggles a bit more than PRO in framerate. even when the XBONEX does 1790p or 1800p in some games or the bevy of games that are dynamic rez, framerate still falls, even if graphical settings are not at maximum. I mean... even Skyrim Remastered has dynamic resolution on XBONEX for crying out loud. So yes, there's no doubt that Cerny was right and then some.
 
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Let's keep the level of discurse at a decent level. If we don't have anything of meaning to contribute it's better to refrain from comenting at all.
Precisely......Lots of dynamic games, settings are not at maximum quality and still the 6TF machine struggles a bit more than PRO in framerate. even when the XBONEX does 1790p or 1800p in some games or the bevy of games that are dynamic rez, framerate still falls, even if graphical settings are not at maximum. I mean... even Skyrim Remastered has dynamic resolution on XBONEX for crying out loud. So yes, there's no doubt that Cerny was right and then some.
What are you like?
 
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Cerny is a very smart man and knows what he is talking about. Its a mixture of raw power of the consoles and the standard quality of videogames today. I mean, even the ps4 pro has some 4k games. I guess that there is a possibility that even the xbone one s could run tetris at 4k. He is talking about the average games.
 
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MS first party devs must be wizards. Gears 4, Killer Instinct, Forza Horizon 3, Forza 7, Super Lucky's Tale, Halo Wars 2 all run at native uncompromised 4K without a resolution scalar, some of them even 60fps. Those are all current gen games that run at up to 1080p on the S, all running in native 4K on the X.
Look at the PC GPU's that can run these games at 4k? It's not hard, these games are not crysis level of GPU assassination in 2007. Quite the opposite actually, pretty much any current mid gen gpu can run these games at 4k....It also means that a PRO can run all these games at 4K.

All optimized games are not developed by Microsoft. Third parties do whatever they want.
That's true and it will always be the case in any gen....However we are seeing lots of games with medium-high settings struggle to do 4k native on XBONEX, in most cases we get 1800p or DR and still we don't have locked framerates even in these instances..... So cerny alluded to a machine being 4k capable on all titles at reasonable settings with proper framerates.......It's like the PS4, that console was built for 1080p and it has the rops and bandwidth to do so. No game should have ever been below 1080p on the machine, but developers can choose to push other aspects according to their vision....However PS4 is like 98-99% 1080p titles, so that's pretty much the gist and puts things in perspective to other consoles and what they claim would be standard...{This is a 4k machine, no upscale, CB or that sort of stuff....ref).
 
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Look at the PC GPU's that can run these games at 4k? It's not hard, these games are not crysis level of GPU assassination in 2007. Quite the opposite actually, pretty much any current mid gen gpu can run these games at 4k....It also means that a PRO can run all these games at 4K.
Can you hear yourself? What's the pro's excuse with all the 3rd party then?

 

Leonidas

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Look at the PC GPU's that can run these games at 4k? It's not hard, these games are not crysis level of GPU assassination in 2007. Quite the opposite actually, pretty much and mid gen gpu can run these games at 4k....It also means that a PRO can run all these games at 4K.
I follow the PC market and recognize that you need ~ GTX 1060/RX 580(mid-range) to reach Xbox One X level graphics, the fact remains those games are current gen games. Microsoft is the only first party developer consistently putting out native 4K games this gen. Sony could have done the same only if they had an 8 Tflop machine, instead we got 4 and half the pixels.

PS4 Pro is weaker than an RX 470 due to it's low clockspeeds, saying that it could do X-level graphics at the same resolution is ludicrous at best. It's not just the Tflop difference, there is a massive memory speed difference, RAM size difference, etc.

Cerny is a very smart man and knows what he is talking about. Its a mixture of raw power of the consoles and the standard quality of videogames today. I mean, even the ps4 pro has some 4k games. I guess that there is a possibility that even the xbone one s could run tetris at 4k. He is talking about the average games.
PS4 first party games are all rendering around half of 4K(outside of the PS3 remaster) while recent MS first party games are native 4K.

He's talking about PS4 games I think, it would take 8 Tflops to get PS4 first party games in 4K. An 8 Tflop PS4 would essently be a PS4 X(4.4x power of PS4 like how Xbox One X is 4.4x the power of Xbox One).
 
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Cerny is a very smart man and knows what he is talking about. Its a mixture of raw power of the consoles and the standard quality of videogames today. I mean, even the ps4 pro has some 4k games. I guess that there is a possibility that even the xbone one s could run tetris at 4k. He is talking about the average games.
That's how I read it. I did not get the sense he was saying that power was needed for any game to hit 4k native. He was talking about across the board and I interpret that to mean including the 3rd party games that push the limits on effects and such.
 
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That's how I read it. I did not get the sense he was saying that power was needed for any game to hit 4k native. He was talking about across the board and I interpret that to mean including the 3rd party games that push the limits on effects and such.
yes, but such an argument and the discussion is pointless.
if we got 8tf now, most games would still no run in native 4k because it is always a matter of compromise. Just increasing the pixel-count is the fastest way to increase image quality, but not the best. Better assets are most time better than raw pixel counts.
Framerate is another factor. We won't magically see 60fps games across the board if we get a more potent GPU and CPU, it is always a matter of compromise where the power is invested.

Currently the xb1x is near optimal (price vs performance) to reach that target. PS4 Pro is good in that regard, too (cheaper). I really hope they don't plan another 8tf refresh, that would really make no sense.

But, if all coming games get dynamic resolution, a new mid-gen console could launch anytime, as long as it is only a bit more powerfull without changed anything else (e.g. memory).
 
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I follow the PC market and recognize that you need ~ GTX 1060/RX 580(mid-range) to reach Xbox One X level graphics, the fact remains those games are current gen games. Microsoft is the only first party developer consistently putting out native 4K games this gen. Sony could have done the same only if they had an 8 Tflop machine, instead we got 4 and half the pixels.

PS4 Pro is weaker than an RX 470 due to it's low clockspeeds, saying that it could do X-level graphics at the same resolution is ludicrous at best. It's not just the Tflop difference, there is a massive memory speed difference, RAM size difference, etc.
You know the PRO has a higher rop count than the XBONEX and also a 20GB/s bus that links CPU/GPU/MEM, which mitigates alot of the raw bandwidth of the XBONEX, notwithstanding PRO has many Vega features and custom ones that save bandwidth as well. It's not always about pure power, it's also about design. Many of you XBOX fans keep talking about bandwidth, but if XBONEX memory bandwidth was the penultimate simplifier, then it would not have so many DR games and it's framerate would not suffer as much when pushing higher resolutions.

FWIW, the PRO is a downclocked RX480, even the XBONEX is a downclocked RX 480 with a couple more CU's, which puts it +4 CU's over PRO and standard rx 480 and still lower clocked than the PC part, yet with no Vega features, no bandwidth saving features as found in PRO....

However, lets play ball......You said the PRO is even weaker than a RX 470 which is not true.....soon you guys will be saying the PRO is an rx 460.....SMH...

So lets be modest and say PRO matches a 470......Then you have this video showing an rx 470 running Forza 7 at everything max minus AA on an average of 53fps. Now if we lower these settings to XBONEX level in that game, which would be, lower MB, shadows and reflections, lower AF, lower lods (cars, scenery et al), lower framerate on mirrors and reflections, then we have a huge surplus over 60fps on that GPU.....Must I really go comparing Killer Instinct and Super lucky on that GPU at 4k too...?
 
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How much stock do you want to put into this guy, he brought us Knack FFS.
His past "achievements" are nice and all but what has he done recently that makes him relevant?
PS4 is lacking a lot of features and they are being embaressed by Microsoft on that front on almost a monthly basis.
And even if he's right that's just still 1080p > 4k native without anything else.
 
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You know the PRO has a higher rop count than the XBONEX and also a 20GB/s bus that links CPU/GPU/MEM, which mitigates alot of the raw bandwidth of the XBONEX, notwithstanding PRO has many Vega features and custom ones that save bandwidth as well. It's not always about pure power, it's also about design. Many of you XBOX fans keep talking about bandwidth, but if XBONEX memory bandwidth was the penultimate simplifier, then it would not have so many DR games and it's framerate would not suffer as much when pushing higher resolutions.

FWIW, the PRO is a downclocked RX480, even the XBONEX is a downclocked RX 480 with a couple more CU's, which puts it +4 CU's over PRO and standard rx 480 and still lower clocked than the PC part, yet with no Vega features, no bandwidth saving features as found in PRO....

However, lets play ball......You said the PRO is even weaker than a RX 470 which is not true.....soon you guys will be saying the PRO is an rx 460.....SMH...

So lets be modest and say PRO matches a 470......Then you have this video showing an rx 470 running Forza 7 at everything max minus AA on an average of 53fps. Now if we lower these settings to XBONEX level in that game, which would be, lower MB, shadows and reflections, lower AF, lower lods (cars, scenery et al), lower framerate on mirrors and reflections, then we have a huge surplus over 60fps on that GPU.....Must I really go comparing Killer Instinct and Super lucky on that GPU at 4k too...?
Mr X Media has switched team.
 
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"How much stock do you want to put into this guy, he brought us Knack FFS.
His past "achievements" are nice and all but what has he done recently that makes him relevant?
PS4 is lacking a lot of features and they are being embaressed by Microsoft on that front on almost a monthly basis.
And even if he's right that's just still 1080p > 4k native without anything else."

I know, right? He's just the lead architect of the Playstation 4 and has been the central figure in console development for the past decade.
 
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"How much stock do you want to put into this guy, he brought us Knack FFS.
His past "achievements" are nice and all but what has he done recently that makes him relevant?
PS4 is lacking a lot of features and they are being embaressed by Microsoft on that front on almost a monthly basis.
And even if he's right that's just still 1080p > 4k native without anything else."

I know, right? He's just the lead architect of the Playstation 4 and has been the central figure in console development for the past decade.
Central figure for console development for the past decade is a good joke, his first real task on console developement was with the PS4.
And even then he had to prove himself before they gave him a chance and look what he did...and no it's not a compliment.
When I was keen to buy a PS4 and was too invested I bought all the nonsense they spouted but as I skipped all systems this generation I have a nice view of things and neutral.
Where was the system-wide super sampling or 1440p or all the other stuff that MS came with and Sony had no choice but to copy later, that's Cerny for you.
He's a great speaker but let's not pretend x86 revolutionary or a "super-charged PC", when you really and actually think about it the guys at MS camp did and is doing more with x86.
But Cerny is not a visionary by any means and if he was I don't see it, but feel free to drink that koolaid if it pleases you, the camp i'm in is the one that's best for me not a corporate.
 
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Where was the system-wide super sampling or 1440p or all the other stuff that MS came with and Sony had no choice but to copy later, that's Cerny for you.
Where is the ID buffer or FP16 on a One X? Why was the original One gimped by DDR3 as opposed to GDDR5 (that 32MB of ESRAM really doesn't help, no matter what MS would want to tell you)?

Or maybe, just maybe, companies have different design targets and end up with different results? But the original PS4 was a very nice design, I don't think that cannot be denied and Cerny should be commended for it. It wasn't only a completely botched messaging at launch, forced Kinect or higher price that caused One to fall behind PS4 this generation.
 
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Where is the ID buffer or FP16 on a One X? Why was the original One gimped by DDR3 as opposed to GDDR5 (that 32MB of ESRAM really doesn't help, no matter what MS would want to tell you)?

Or maybe, just maybe, companies have different design targets and end up with different results? But the original PS4 was a very nice design, I don't think that cannot be denied and Cerny should be commended for it. It wasn't only a completely botched messaging at launch, forced Kinect or higher price that caused One to fall behind PS4 this generation.
FP16 surely is in the same league as all the other features, but very cute to try and use that one :)
Not saying MS didn't do dumb shit either, original launch was nothing short but a disaster and I laughed equally at them when it happend.
Let's not make this a console warrior bullshit because you'd be alone on that as I don't game and haven't since probably mid/late PS2/PS3 days.
PS4 is a functional design yeah, clean gaming machine without anything extra, but then they came with Pro which is laughable....again Cerny.
IMO anyone could have came up with the switch to x86 that wasn't a genius move, just Sony as a whole tripping on their own ego and not hiring people from the west.

Anyway we're getting off-track, 8TF minimum yeah and he isn't wrong in that, not sure why anyone would doubt it.
But is it what we'll see or what will be good enough from PS5 to PS6 no, not by a long shot because it's not even the bare minimum.
 
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Let's not make this a console warrior bullshit because you'd be alone on that as I don't game and haven't since probably mid/late PS2/PS3 days.
Oh I don't know, you seem awfully invested yourself. Just pointing out that companies have different design targets, and also technology advances with time - a Pro with One X specs, released a year earlier, would certainly have been in the $600 range. We all know how that went for Sony... For the record I like my Pro, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, essentially it's a PS4+. Nothing more, nothing less. It could certainly take a note from One X WRT cooling though.

just Sony as a whole tripping on their own ego and not hiring people from the west
...what? Who should they have hired from the west, and what does that have to do with anything/how would it have changed anything?
 
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So lets be modest and say PRO matches a 470......Then you have this video showing an rx 470 running Forza 7 at everything max minus AA on an average of 53fps. Now if we lower these settings to XBONEX level in that game, which would be, lower MB, shadows and reflections, lower AF, lower lods (cars, scenery et al), lower framerate on mirrors and reflections, then we have a huge surplus over 60fps on that GPU.....Must I really go comparing Killer Instinct and Super lucky on that GPU at 4k too...?
Do you mean lower settings to Xbox one S because Xbox X runs with higher lods, detail, scenery etc than S and also mirrors are 60fps on the X. Have you even seen it on the X in the flesh and not some Youtube video.
 
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Oh I don't know, you seem awfully invested yourself. Just pointing out that companies have different design targets, and also technology advances with time - a Pro with One X specs, released a year earlier, would certainly have been in the $600 range. We all know how that went for Sony... For the record I like my Pro, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, essentially it's a PS4+. Nothing more, nothing less. It could certainly take a note from One X WRT cooling though.


...what? Who should they have hired from the west, and what does that have to do with anything/how would it have changed anything?
I follow technology news, I like to read that is all and too lazy to keep explaining, if we disagree then we do.
 
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Central figure for console development for the past decade is a good joke, his first real task on console developement was with the PS4.
And even then he had to prove himself before they gave him a chance and look what he did...and no it's not a compliment.
"According to lead architect Mark Cerny, development of Sony's fourth video game console began as early as 2008." ~ Wikipedia. So yeah, central figure in console development for the past decade. His work with Crash Bandicoot was a technical marvel in its time, and the list of games he was either programmer or designer on is pretty astonishing. Not sure why you're thinking he was a low level nothing before his work on PS4.
 
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I follow technology news, I like to read that is all and too lazy to keep explaining, if we disagree then we do.
The whole west thing seemed just like an odd racial slur to inject there, but perhaps I don't follow technology news enough.
 
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"According to lead architect Mark Cerny, development of Sony's fourth video game console began as early as 2008." ~ Wikipedia. So yeah, central figure in console development for the past decade. His work with Crash Bandicoot was a technical marvel in its time, and the list of games he was either programmer or designer on is pretty astonishing. Not sure why you're thinking he was a low level nothing before his work on PS4.
I'm aware of his past, I was referring to central figure for game development, PS4 is his first console as architect.

The whole west thing seemed just like an odd racial slur to inject there, but perhaps I don't follow technology news enough.
Yeah...I don't think so, they are out of touch on numerous front with their product design because they are stubborn or eating the "It's a Sony" nonsense.
Japan as a country does not have the (IT) engineers to push forward as fast as say the US or whichever country, I believe this was also echoed numerous game developers.

MS got everything nailed except the games, Sony got all the games but the rest is a mess IMO (premium model, services, name change, uhd drive, game pass, ea access, etc etc)
Best outcome would for them to join hands and make THE console, both joypad support, but not in this lifetime I guess :p
 
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Japan as a country does not have the (IT) engineers to push forward as fast as say the US or whichever country, I believe this was also echoed numerous game developers.
Then surely you'll be able to provide a citation or two? And Switch, about as Japanese design as they come, seems to be doing alright.
 
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Then surely you'll be able to provide a citation or two? And Switch, about as Japanese design as they come, seems to be doing alright.
You're kinda all over the place to "prove" your point, going hard at these quotes aren't ya?
Would love to spend some hours on Google to prove my point and all that, but if you care so much you can do it yourself.
This thread is being derailed, let's leave it at Sony is best shit since slice bread and can do no wrong and get back on topic :)
 
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MS got everything nailed except the games, Sony got all the games but the rest is a mess IMO (premium model, services, name change, uhd drive, game pass, ea access, etc etc)
Best outcome would for them to join hands and make THE console, both joypad support, but not in this lifetime I guess :p
LMFAO, MS sure nailed it with 1.3 Tflops @ $499! I don't need game pass, I don't need EA access, i'm fine with the pro at its price point, i'm fine with PSN. I would've liked UHD but i'm not going to cry over it.
 
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You're kinda all over the place to "prove" your point, going hard at these quotes aren't ya?
I just think that if you're asserting something, it should be up to you to prove it. But as you have no interest in doing so, I'll get back to the topic - which is "Annihilation" from Netflix, yay for idiotic studio executives.

(No, Sony is not the best shit and can most certainly do wrong, and have, and will continue to do so. Like every company out there.)
 
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Be prepared for a PS5 being released soon as a minor upgrade to the xbox one x, the public buying it and being happy and neogaf imploding.

My guess zen 10tf gpu 4k 60 fps games that look identical to xbox one x which is at 4k 30...the ps4 got a lot of marketing play with 1080p identicical settings to xbox at 900p. Sony will show great looking games at 4k30 that are first party but could be done on xbox one x .. and promote the 4k60 mantra.

Announce release 2019 .. then realise their mistake and inability to deiver significant upgrade and at last moment change to mid 2020 release. Xbox 2 release 2020 end of year.
 
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Precisely......Lots of dynamic games, settings are not at maximum quality and still the 6TF machine struggles a bit more than PRO in framerate. even when the XBONEX does 1790p or 1800p in some games or the bevy of games that are dynamic rez, framerate still falls, even if graphical settings are not at maximum. I mean... even Skyrim Remastered has dynamic resolution on XBONEX for crying out loud. So yes, there's no doubt that Cerny was right and then some.
What the fuck. How is this still a topic? Who, in their right mind, can argue that X1X doesn't do 4k60 (or even 4k30) easily, if the developer chooses? Seriously?

Even for you, that's a new low. Claiming that "Cerny was right and then some" is outright trolling.
 
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What the fuck. How is this still a topic? Who, in their right mind, can argue that X1X doesn't do 4k60 (or even 4k30) easily, if the developer chooses? Seriously?

Even for you, that's a new low. Claiming that "Cerny was right and then some" is outright trolling.
Well OG PS4 could do 4K/60fps if the developer choose to as well, I don’t think that is the point that Mark was making though.
 
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What the fuck. How is this still a topic? Who, in their right mind, can argue that X1X doesn't do 4k60 (or even 4k30) easily, if the developer chooses? Seriously?

Even for you, that's a new low. Claiming that "Cerny was right and then some" is outright trolling.
Some of you guys need to read better.........

If the XBONEX is struggling to do 4k medium in Pubg, with a bad framerate. If many of it's games are dynamic resolution and yet still framerate is not locked 30 or 60fps. If a game like Skyrim remastered still needs to be dynamic resolution so it can hold 30fps, and yet it still drops, then it's not the 4k specced machine as Spencer and MS alluded to.....So in fact, just substantiating what Cerny said in the first place.....

There has never been the question of these consoles doing 4k for all games if the developer deems, but if they're struggling with 1800p and DR games at High to med settings, then it goes without saying.......unless you want your games to look like pong and run at 10fps to make that point, which makes it invalid at best. So again, when Cerny said 8TF is necessary for 4k at a minimum, he also meant that the games would be at reasonable graphical presets and hold solid framerates........
 
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Mark Cerny was a bit wrong. Maybe he was inspired by PC Gaming to speculate the power needed for a satisfying 4k.

But remember that the consoles are optimizable and do not have to run the games in Ultra Settings.

Xbox One X is doing a great job with its 6Tflops GPU. Many games are running in 4k native and some up in 4k 60fps. All of these games are gorgeous and graphically superior to the Xbox One Basic versions.

Just try to imagine what will be possible with 12Tflops of GPU in an upcoming Xbox or an upcoming PS5.

Phil Spencer kept his promise. It's time to admit this. It does not matter if any game can not beat the native 4k and needs a checkerboard. We are seeing large franchises running in native 4k. This is an absolute success for the console. 6Tflops is enough for a consoles. Consoles do much more than a PC with the same meager specifications. They are optimizable.

PS4 and Xbox One were also not able to keep 1080p in every game. Remember the PS4 that reduced the resolution from BF4 to 900p at the beginning of that generation. Otherwise I would not be able to get 60fps stable. Killzone Shadow Fall for some reason does not run 1920x1080p and was a case of legal process.

We have to evaluate whether 12 Tflops will be enough to deliver graphics significantly superior to Xbox One X and PS4 PRO keeping the native 4k without compromise. This is the big question.
 
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MS got everything nailed except the games, Sony got all the games but the rest is a mess IMO (premium model, services, name change, uhd drive, game pass, ea access, etc etc)
You do understand the common gamer doesn't care about list war BS that console warrior seem to track right? No one cares about that shit, they buy consoles and play games. My kid isn't at home playing Fortnite and suddenly stressing that his PS4 is missing some niche feature like UHD. Hell, I'm a techno geek with all the toys and I don't care about it. For you guys, it's a checkbox in a list war.
 
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Uless you want your games to look like pong and run at 10fps to make that point, which makes it invalid at best. So again, when Cerny said 8TF is necessary for 4k at a minimum, he also meant that the games would be at reasonable graphical presets and hold solid framerates........
So any game currently running at 4k at the PS4 Pro or XB1X looks like pong and runs at 10 fps, or doesn't live up to your wildly inaccurate definition of "reasonable graphical preset and solid framerate"?

You're a troll. There's no way around it.
 
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So any game currently running at 4k at the PS4 Pro or XB1X looks like pong and runs at 10 fps, or doesn't live up to your wildly inaccurate definition of "reasonable graphical preset and solid framerate"?

You're a troll. There's no way around it.
Second thread where I'm reading that guy and it's the same song. Not a troll bug a big fan of one side and hater of the another. That's it.
 
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Second thread where I'm reading that guy and it's the same song. Not a troll bug a big fan of one side and hater of the another. That's it.
No. He's troll. By definition.

Anyone who actively enters any Xbox thread because it "triggers" them (like a third wave feminist in a Breitbart News comments section) and then spends half of their unemployed day to try to shame or convert otherwise happy gamers to his own self-defined new PlayStation religion, is a troll. Nothing but a troll. TLW smells like a troll, looks like a troll, is a troll. There's no dismissing that.

How do you kill that which has no life? Answer: you can't. Trey Parker and Matt Stone have carefully researched the subject matter.

But taken in context, he's good fun, so he's a good character to have around these parts and we all have a nice chuckle everytime he posts. You should too. Just don't defend him. He'll only get the false impression that his opinions are of any worth and he won't -finally- evolve into a fully employed rational adult, like the rest of us.
 
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Some of you guys need to read better.........

If the XBONEX is struggling to do 4k medium in Pubg, with a bad framerate. If many of it's games are dynamic resolution and yet still framerate is not locked 30 or 60fps. If a game like Skyrim remastered still needs to be dynamic resolution so it can hold 30fps, and yet it still drops, then it's not the 4k specced machine as Spencer and MS alluded to.....So in fact, just substantiating what Cerny said in the first place.....

There has never been the question of these consoles doing 4k for all games if the developer deems, but if they're struggling with 1800p and DR games at High to med settings, then it goes without saying.......unless you want your games to look like pong and run at 10fps to make that point, which makes it invalid at best. So again, when Cerny said 8TF is necessary for 4k at a minimum, he also meant that the games would be at reasonable graphical presets and hold solid framerates........
The 1X isn't struggling to run Forza 7 at 4k 60 or Halo 5 and Wolfenstein 2 run pretty damn good at close to 4k and 60fps.
 
Likes: Lort
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So any game currently running at 4k at the PS4 Pro or XB1X looks like pong and runs at 10 fps, or doesn't live up to your wildly inaccurate definition of "reasonable graphical preset and solid framerate"?
You realize, you're in a thread about what spec would give us 4k for most if not all titles, NOT DR, NOT 1800p, but 2160p...So it would mean the majority of games would be 4k as opposed to a few. So since you're such a hard nut, lets break it down......., in essence, the majority of games would hit that rez just as how often PS4 did 1080p without much issue......comprende?

The 1X isn't struggling to run Forza 7 at 4k 60 or Halo 5 and Wolfenstein 2 run pretty damn good at close to 4k and 60fps.
Forza 7 is the only 4k game, but settings are not at max like on PC and it's also a very easy game to get 60fps in. Halo5 and Wolfenstein 2 are dynamic, they're not 2160p native. Still, Halo 5 is a very simple looking game and like Forza it's really not very demanding on hardware.......and as I said, wolfenstein is not 4k and it's not a locked 60 either and not all settings are on max like PC....

The way I see it, just for clarification. Cerny was mostly talking about first parties and multiplatforms hitting 4k a bit more consistently (in this generation)....The same won't apply for next gen as assets, textures, worlds get larger and more detailed, fidelity, AA, shadows, even alpha etc....can no longer be low rez or half rez at 4k or 8k. So next gen we will need much more power to fuel 4k great looking games at a consistent clip, so when I hear people saying 12TF as if it's the holy grail and sufficient, no that's not going to cut it........It's not close to enough.
 
Likes: daibaron
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The trouble is, TF alone doesn't dictate what you are doing in a game. Its all based on your systems bottle neck. As I said previously, the problem with the mid gen refreshes is that they throw a lot of GPU grunt at things, but that's just to increase resolution on games already running on PS4/Xbox hardware. If the next gen systems come out with 12tf of power, but that power is still ignoring that a fast CPU is needed, then you will run into the same problems you have this generation.

Of course I doubt either company will produce another CPU limited system. They know their mistakes.
Yeah, I totally agree, about CPU limitations being a huge concern for console makers after all the headaches of this gen/mid-gen. I expect some decent power, forthcoming.

With the CPU limitations accounted for, devs still have to focus their sights on resolution and framerate, at some point, for us to move forward. With decent CPUs in the offing, I’d adore a 60fps standard. We can dream though, right?
 
I myself would be over the moon if both Sony and MS simply said "look, the next consoles are more powerful, but for this generation you will be getting the same looking games as the last one. BUT... We now mandate every game be 60fps". I would happily take a generation loss of advancement for that, its a good trade off. Sadly, consoles are the same as phone batteries. Everybody moans that the phones still die too quickly and that they don't upgrade the battery tech... But the truth is, they DO upgrade the battery tech. Its just they also keep making the phones faster and more intensive, so the user doesn't really see that gain in the scheme of things.
 
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You realize, you're in a thread about what spec would give us 4k for most if not all titles, NOT DR, NOT 1800p, but 2160p...So it would mean the majority of games would be 4k as opposed to a few. So since you're such a hard nut, lets break it down......., in essence, the majority of games would hit that rez just as how often PS4 did 1080p without much issue......comprende?
You're moving the goalpost now. Cerny was provably wrong, and no matter how you try to spin it, so are you. I appreciate (and I'm sure Sony does as well) your fight, but why are you wasting your time arguing something that's provably false? It's even more a waste of time than those arguing the world is flat.

Cerny was wrong. There's nothing more to it. And it's okay. So was Bill Gates, Phil Spencer and everyone else in the world. Even you and me.

PS. Your idea that "Forza 7 is a very easy game to get 60 FPS in" just shows how little you actually know about game development.
 
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