-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Mark Cerny thinks 8TF is the minimum for native 4K gaming
- Thread starter Omnistalgic
- Start date
I think saying that any amount of FLOPs is enough for 4k gaming is off, and even specifying a single minimum is wrong.
On the one hand, there are absolutely games which can run natively at 4k with less than 8 TF.
On the other hand, my GPU runs at 10.2 TF and it's still not enough for native 4k at good IQ with 60 FPS in some games.
Of course, this is at least a much more genuine statement than had he chosen a lower number.
On the one hand, there are absolutely games which can run natively at 4k with less than 8 TF.
On the other hand, my GPU runs at 10.2 TF and it's still not enough for native 4k at good IQ with 60 FPS in some games.
Of course, this is at least a much more genuine statement than had he chosen a lower number.
ScientificPizza
Banned
lmao
y'all petty
Yeah, acting like there's some definitive minimum
is crazy
TBiddy
Member
Moore's Law doesn't have anything to do with performance. It states that the number of transistors doubles every two years, give or take.
Because average joe doesn't read about Mark Cerny and probably have no idea who the fuck he is. Nobody is claiming the pro will play all games 4k native anyway which is what he's talking about.
Sony
Nintendo
Michał Jaworski;222255203 said:
Me? Panic? On the contrary. I'm so confident with the PS4Pro that I can send it into the world without fully clarifying its capabilitites and I know it will sell. My messaging regarding the PS4 Pro always has been 4K media ready, but no UHD drive because I wanted to keep something for the PS4 Propro. Regarding PS4 Pro 4k gaming, we have invested in checkerboard technology and talked about it extensively and clarified that it will be our way of achieving 4k. Cerny is talking about native 4K, something we never intended or communicated to do.
I would agree with him. PS4 at 1.8 Tflops can't always hit 1080p. 4k is 4x more pixels so 4x more than PS4 is 7.2Tflops, the extra 10% in his estimate gives a bit of headroom to be able hit it with more consistent frame rates.
Realistically I think 12 Tflops is the minimum to enable the resolution increase and a graphical effects increase.
Realistically I think 12 Tflops is the minimum to enable the resolution increase and a graphical effects increase.
robertsan21
Member
I think its great of Sony to be out there and talking about this even if they do say its not a true 4k Machine.
Be honest with your products and you will get our respect.
I hate false marketing, over hyping shit and get dissapointed. Im looking at you Xbone and you No man sky, and you everyubisoftgameeverreleasedexcept southpark.
Be honest with your products and you will get our respect.
I hate false marketing, over hyping shit and get dissapointed. Im looking at you Xbone and you No man sky, and you everyubisoftgameeverreleasedexcept southpark.
Nope! Cerny didn't said that PS4 Pro really is 8.4 TFLOPS console, Luv! Trying to spin something?
You should read interview with Cerny on Eurogamer again insted putting him in the same basket with Greenberg.
What a waste of power.
Always-honest
Banned
There are some games that run in native 4K though.
How many Flops for decent AF?
Would a 1080p game with greater detail, solid 60fps, glorious AF, AA, draw in etc. still look amazing even at 4K? Hell, even something in between. Surely that's what Sony and Microsoft should be aiming for with the new machines, get the base game at best detail and performance at 1080p or a bit above then go for 4K, don't try to shoehorn it for a box tick or PR win.
Would a 1080p game with greater detail, solid 60fps, glorious AF, AA, draw in etc. still look amazing even at 4K? Hell, even something in between. Surely that's what Sony and Microsoft should be aiming for with the new machines, get the base game at best detail and performance at 1080p or a bit above then go for 4K, don't try to shoehorn it for a box tick or PR win.
Always-honest
Banned
Well, it's not just Sony and Microsoft who decide that. Devs often choose 30 fps over 60 fps (because most people can't tell the difference or even know about this). It's not a requirement by Sony.
But yes, i'm all for it.
Okami on PS3 was effectively being downsampled from 4k iirc.
platina
Member
Can you imagine the ps5 being 8-9 tflops to just render 4K native games that have the same graphics as today's current gen games? Who honestly gives a crap about this? What about svogii, realtime global illumination for all games, better smoke simulation, real destructible environments? You know, things that will really make you say "holy shit, this is next gen."
Brad Grenz
Member
No, he's talking about how they're delivering half of 4k rendering at ps4 quality with 4tflops in the Pro, but to do the same at a full native 4k you'd need twice as much shading power.
I agree, it's upsetting.
I'm playing DOOM on PS4 at the moment on my OLED, and it looks absolutely jaw-droppingly stunning. At no point have I thought "if only it was at a higher resolution". It blows me away every time I play it.
That's because at 60fps, games feel amazing and move at such a speed that you're not worrying about things like resolution. I just wish Pro's additional power was being used for framerate, and all the other benefits you mentioned, rather than just a resolution increase.
That said, I haven't seen any 4K games on my OLED yet, so perhaps I just don't know what I'm missing until I see it when my Pro arrives.
Always-honest
Banned
Really? I didn't know. Thanx
But, what does that have to do with native 4K on the psPro?
jabberwocker
Banned
I would have hoped they went this way with the pro. I guess it really is just a tack on to existing games for screen resolution mostly. So marketing wins. Just like the Xbox one s. I am sure some people are thinking it's a 4K console be they don't know rendering vs up scaling.
LiquidSolid
Member
Michał Jaworski;222255203 said:
LOL. You're going to last long around here.
And? etta said that the Scorpio will deliver native 4K as often as the PS4 delivers 1080p, it's going to need a hell of a lot more than 3 to match that.
True but not just next gen wow factor but actual game play implications. What does resolution do......
Gtx 1080 (9tf) can do 60/4k all day at medium/high settings, which is what most console games target.
Here we go.gif
I not sure what to make of this as of yet pertaining to whether this will have a positive effect or negative affect on PS4Pro/Scorpio.
In terms of PC gaming, I'm keeping my 980ti until I have HBM memory and 10TF+ of performance. As i believe this will be the safest bet for 4k gaming. I really hope Nvidia and AMD don't just ride the GDRR5x train =/
I not sure what to make of this as of yet pertaining to whether this will have a positive effect or negative affect on PS4Pro/Scorpio.
In terms of PC gaming, I'm keeping my 980ti until I have HBM memory and 10TF+ of performance. As i believe this will be the safest bet for 4k gaming. I really hope Nvidia and AMD don't just ride the GDRR5x train =/
LuvOfThaGame
Banned
They fundamentally say the same things.
'Here's a neat trick that means the competition doesn't really have an advantage.'
Medium/high settings of today's games, aren't we supposed to get games that look better in the future? Wouldn't people here prefer games to use those 8 teraflops for better graphics at 1080p 60fps and good AA instead of worse graphics at 4k and who knows how many fps?
this.
The fact that is called PRo and not PS4K or something like that also proves they have been quite honest so far.
Seems fair, not a pc gamer myself but (8F seems to be the minimum to have 4K for AAA games and High quality settings for textures and detail. We will see how does Scorpio perform with 6TF. Better than Pro no doubt but still not enough probably to deliver uncompromised 4K gaming
Black Mantis
Member
Eh, that's what I said. Any devs like Playground and Remedy, are 2nd party partnerships and obviously aren't included in 1st party offerings.
DangerMouse
Member
Completely agree.
And there's nothing they'd get on Cerny for here since right from the start they've been extremely open with how they'll be achieving it on the AAA more taxing games (and said and demonstrated devs can offer enhanced 1080p modes too) and that those won't be native 4K so it's not like they've advertised the Pro like its a 4K graphics powerhouse or anything. Nothing Cerny said contradicts the upgrades they've said it gives since they've already said it won't be able to do native 4K for everything, so there's nothing really here that they wouldn't have wanted him to say.
If anything, like at the reveal meeting I guess you could say that as a tech guy (with a bit of PR of course) he's indirectly pointing out again that he's proud their checkerboard method and hardware customizations for it (and some other tricks some other devs might do) along with improved specs give them something approximately close for now with only about half the needed power (for a theoretical "average" uncompromised native 4K like EGM1966 pointed out too).
Love some of the reactions to this...first Sony is being deceptive, lying, or outright false advertising the Pro as a 4k machine...
Here he gives honest, truthful answers about hardware in general and he's an idiot...
Some people are never satisfied...
First, all he did was talk about how FP16 has the ability to give a performance boost (it does), and that if you code purely in FP16 the GPU has 8.4tf of computational power (it does)...he didn't say anything wrong, or deceiving at all...
Second, I don't think he is dumb enough to think Scorpio won't have the same capability...they both source their GPUs from the same provider at the end of the day...
Here he gives honest, truthful answers about hardware in general and he's an idiot...
Some people are never satisfied...
First, all he did was talk about how FP16 has the ability to give a performance boost (it does), and that if you code purely in FP16 the GPU has 8.4tf of computational power (it does)...he didn't say anything wrong, or deceiving at all...
Second, I don't think he is dumb enough to think Scorpio won't have the same capability...they both source their GPUs from the same provider at the end of the day...
Caayn
Member
1080p + 4xMSAA doesn't equal 4K.
I doubt it's the same people.
Lockjaw333
Member
TF are such a nebulous parameter.
Are we talking AMD teraflops, or Nvidia? AMD TF numbers are higher for equal performance to Nvidia TF numbers. It's not a clear cut measurement of performance.
Anyway, it's pretty clear the Pro won't cut it for native 4k. Scorpio will, but probably at 30fps. That's why this whole 4k push seems premature.
Are we talking AMD teraflops, or Nvidia? AMD TF numbers are higher for equal performance to Nvidia TF numbers. It's not a clear cut measurement of performance.
Anyway, it's pretty clear the Pro won't cut it for native 4k. Scorpio will, but probably at 30fps. That's why this whole 4k push seems premature.
Silent Hill
Banned
Who is it then?
DangerMouse
Member
I believe he's referring to this:
http://www.capcom-unity.com/gregaman/blog/2012/11/05/okami-hd-powered-by-technical-innovation-love
http://hexadrive.sblo.jp/article/59698038.html#more
According to Capcom, Hexadrive got the PS3 remaster internally rendering near 4K downsampled to native 1080p.
I'm in the camp that there is no real limit and what he says makes sense. I can play today's games on my at 4K when running at console settings with console frame rates and my GPU is nowhere near 8TF. However I imagine he's also considering the higher demands future games will likely require.
Plus IIRC MS has said they expect 1080p games on XBO to reach 4K on Scorpio at similar settings. If you think about it, that's not really a lot of games. With a 8TF GPU it's obvious that you'll be able to hit 4K more consistently.
Plus IIRC MS has said they expect 1080p games on XBO to reach 4K on Scorpio at similar settings. If you think about it, that's not really a lot of games. With a 8TF GPU it's obvious that you'll be able to hit 4K more consistently.
Sure. One is a marketing person, other is technological engineer.
LuvOfThaGame
Banned
PR is PR no matter who or how it's delivered.
martino
Member
sony make him trade the technological hat for pr one a lot lately.
Hexa
Member
That the PS4 is 8.4 TF with FP16 is a fact, and in context Cerny was very clear about what that meant. He didn't just throw out the 8.4 TF number and call it a day.