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[jstevenson]

Well this thread is....

Some stuff - those screens are straight pulls from the frame buffer.

Temporal injection is a different approach ban checkerbording to get to 2160p that gets you AA too. We think it looks better.

The game is designed to run at a locked 30 so making frame rate changes was never in the cards. Sorry

It looks even better in HDR.

The engine tech was developed on our current stuff first and then we ported it back here.

 

[kyser73]

Well this thread is....

Some stuff - those screens are straight pulls from the frame buffer.

Temporal injection is a different approach ban checkerbording to get to 2160p that gets you AA too. We think it looks better.

The game is designed to run at a locked 30 so making frame rate changes was never in the cards. Sorry

It looks even better in HDR.

The engine tech was developed on our current stuff first and then we ported it back here.

Did you guys use this patch as a kind of boot camp for the work on Spider Man for things like proof of concept for Temporal Injection?

Also - awesome fun game, and one of the few I've completed this year

 

[platocplx]

Well this thread is....

Some stuff - those screens are straight pulls from the frame buffer.

Temporal injection is a different approach ban checkerbording to get to 2160p that gets you AA too. We think it looks better.

The game is designed to run at a locked 30 so making frame rate changes was never in the cards. Sorry

It looks even better in HDR.

The engine tech was developed on our current stuff first and then we ported it back here.

Lol yeah some people are insane, Love the update even though i platinumed this i definitely will play through once again.

 

[13ruce]

Cool! The game is currently discounted on European PSN by the way (€17w/ PS+).

Wait really!?!? I'm gonna buy it right now then!

 

[platina]

Well this thread is....

Some stuff - those screens are straight pulls from the frame buffer.

Temporal injection is a different approach ban checkerbording to get to 2160p that gets you AA too. We think it looks better.

The game is designed to run at a locked 30 so making frame rate changes was never in the cards. Sorry

It looks even better in HDR.

The engine tech was developed on our current stuff first and then we ported it back here.

This is what I was going to say too. This implementation of 4K looks to be one of the best yet. The only issue I see is that the screenshots are compressed .jpeg when zoomed in. Where are the uncompressed .pngs

 

[GhostOfSparta305]

The game is designed to run at a locked 30 so making frame rate changes was never in the cards. Sorry

Thanks for clearing this up. I'll likely give your next action game a look if it has a 60fps option.

 

[Nachtfalke]

Clearly the first 2 PS3 games can't be that bad if Nexus was the only game to dip under 30fps. Many people claim to not see a difference between 30fps & 60fps. I'm betting that far fewer are sensitive to drops from 60 to 45.

But this difference of opinion wouldn't matter if more devs gave us options like RotTR and Nioh. I guess Insomniac cares less about its fans (and money)?

Of course it's just my opinion and yes, peformance on ToD and CiT was waaay better than on Nexus.

I'd love to see a Remaster of those three titles with 1080p and rocksolid 60fps. The IQ alone would benefit greatly.

I like how some first party games from Sony gave us the option between an unlocked framerate and a 30fps cap. Those titles could run much better on the Pro thanks to that.

 

[Nev]

"Absolutely worthless" and "pointless toy" eh? You come across just a little bit out of touch of reality.

That's exactly what it is to me though, maybe it has some value for other people. If I want better resolution I upgrade my PC, the only good thing out of a new PS4 would be playing the exclusives at 60fps. Because that's not happening, it is a worthless product to me.

The game is designed to run at a locked 30 so making frame rate changes was never in the cards. Sorry

Dark Souls and several PS1 and N64 era games are "designed to run at a locked 30fps" or even lower yet you can play them on PC at higher framerates with minor inconveniences that could be easily and rapidly fixed by the developers with a simple patch. Say you guys don't care about 60fps anymore and you prefer shiny graphics but don't act like not going for 60fps on Pro was a decision made because of technical impossibilities.

 

[jstevenson]

Did you guys use this patch as a kind of boot camp for the work on Spider Man for things like proof of concept for Temporal Injection?

Also - awesome fun game, and one of the few I've completed this year

No it was the opposite.

We also made improvements to depth of field in Ratchet that this patch will include

 

[Vashetti]

Well this thread is....

Some stuff - those screens are straight pulls from the frame buffer.

Temporal injection is a different approach ban checkerbording to get to 2160p that gets you AA too. We think it looks better.

The game is designed to run at a locked 30 so making frame rate changes was never in the cards. Sorry

It looks even better in HDR.

The engine tech was developed on our current stuff first and then we ported it back here.

Would you say viewing the screens on the current PS4 on a TV would give a good idea of what the actual game will look like on the Pro? (minus HDR and not being in motion)

 

[jett]

The image quality in those 4K screens definitely looks different from what I've seen of games using checkerboard rendering. The edges look blurry instead of fuzzy, more like the usual look like you get from upscaling. Interesting. I guess the likes of Digital Foundry are gonna have their work cut out for them in the future.

Speaking of framerate business, people really should know better, if they aren't purposefully trolling that is. The Pro is designed first and foremost to improve resolution. That's it. It's the only "assured" upgrade you're gonna see in games. The CPU in the Pro got a slight overclock, but it's still trash. Any game even remotely CPU bound will see little to no framerate improvements. Like the new HITMAN game, on certain situations it even runs better on Xbone than on PS4, simply because the XB1's CPU is clocked slightly higher.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Didn't Mark Cerny say some developers were using something other than checkerboarding, I guess Temporal Injection is one of the techniques being used by some devs then.

Ratchet & Clank already looks brilliant, so running this on the Pro with HDR should look amazing.

 

[dogen]

Come on... A game like this should have been 60fps for the Pro. That's a shame.

Shoulda been 60 fps on PS4. No interest in this game because of that, and I'm a fan of the PS2 games.

PS4 Pro has a 2.3x GPU power increase. The CPU increase is 1.3x.

Any games that were barely hitting 30FPS will not get a double-up to 60. Don't see it coming for Uncharted, Bloodborne or anything intense.

It'll only work for games with variable FPS that were in the mid 40s already (Like Tomb Raider or many remasters of last gen titles).

That's not really true for every game. GPU bound games could. Games that weren't especially optimized on the CPU side because they only needed to hit 30 fps could(with more optimization). Not saying it's likely to happen, but there are sure some games where's it's doable.

 

[Tagg9]

Temporal injection is a different approach ban checkerbording to get to 2160p that gets you AA too. We think it looks better.

Is there any technical explanation out there for how temporal injection works?

 

[VLiberty]

Insomniac said in a press release they will no longer make 60fps games, just 30fps with graphics up all the way they can go.

not this again pls

They've realeased 2 vr games already and those sure aren't running at 30 fps, as well SOTD which I don't think it's locked at 30fps on pc.

Multiple devs are putting OPTIONAL 60fps modes along with other modes which offer enhanced visuals, if they aren't making one on purpose then it's just pure idiocy. Insomniac is my fave developer but sometimes hey make some really obtuse choices

 

[gundamkyoukai]

How is it nonsense to want better game performance?

Because 60fps is not a hardware problem .
It's a dev problem and some of them will choose better eye candy .
Plus the pro does not a have a big cpu jump that games can go to 60fps from 30fps if they cpu bound.

 

[Inuhanyou]

The Xbox 360 was superior to any PC when it came out and you can find comparisons like king long, Just Cause and Bioshock that were at the same level or better on 360 than any available hardware on PC at the time.

That has nothing to do with anything we're talking about right now. You have no argument to make.

 

[hawk2025]

Can we stop calling devs idiots to their face?

Thanks!

Jesus, people. Just... try to have a shred of empathy.

 

[kyser73]

Shoulda been 60 fps on PS4. No interest in this game because of that, and I'm a fan of the PS2 games.




That's not really true for every game. GPU bound games could. Games that weren't especially optimized on the CPU side because they only needed to hit 30 fps could(with more optimization). Not saying it's likely to happen, but there are sure some games where's it's doable.

not this again pls

They've realeased 2 vr games already and those sure aren't running at 30 fps, and I don't think that SOTD is locked to 30 on pc.

Multiple devs are putting OPTIONAL 60fps modes along with other modes who enhance the visuals, if they aren't making one on purpose then it's just pure idiocy. Insomniac is my fave developer but sometimes hey make some really obtuse choices

Well this thread is....

Some stuff - those screens are straight pulls from the frame buffer.

Temporal injection is a different approach ban checkerbording to get to 2160p that gets you AA too. We think it looks better.

The game is designed to run at a locked 30 so making frame rate changes was never in the cards. Sorry

It looks even better in HDR.

The engine tech was developed on our current stuff first and then we ported it back here.

Probably should read the actual posts in the thread before reacting...

 

[piccio_ssl]

Temporal injection is a different approach ban checkerbording to get to 2160p that gets you AA too. We think it looks better.

will Spider-Man use this too?

 

[dogen]

Is there any technical explanation out there for how temporal injection works?

Not unless someone knows what that term specifically means.

Well this thread is....

Some stuff - those screens are straight pulls from the frame buffer.

Temporal injection is a different approach ban checkerbording to get to 2160p that gets you AA too. We think it looks better.

The game is designed to run at a locked 30 so making frame rate changes was never in the cards. Sorry

It looks even better in HDR.

The engine tech was developed on our current stuff first and then we ported it back here.

Digital Foundry mentioned this in an interview with Mark Cerny.

"Both the upcoming Spider-Man and For Honor use four million jittered samples to produce what the developers believe to be a superior technique compared to checkerboarding, with a similar computational cost."

I assume this is what R&C is doing?

Probably should read the actual posts in the thread before reacting...

I wasn't saying it should've been changed. Just that it should've been 60 on the PS4 from the beginning. Off topic, but whatever.

 

[kyser73]

Not unless someone knows what that term specifically means.



Digital Foundry mentioned this in an interview with Mark Cerny.

"Both the upcoming Spider-Man and For Honor use four million jittered samples to produce what the developers believe to be a superior technique compared to checkerboarding, with a similar computational cost."

I assume this is what R&C is doing?

You do know that jstevenson works at Insomniac, which is why that question was put to him specifically, right?

 

[Unknown?]

That's exactly what it is to me though, maybe it has some value for other people. If I want better resolution I upgrade my PC, the only good thing out of a new PS4 would be playing the exclusives at 60fps. Because that's not happening, it is a worthless product to me.



Dark Souls and several PS1 and N64 era games are "designed to run at a locked 30fps" or even lower yet you can play them on PC at higher framerates with minor inconveniences that could be easily and rapidly fixed by the developers with a simple patch. Say you guys don't care about 60fps anymore and you prefer shiny graphics but don't act like not going for 60fps on Pro was a decision made because of technical impossibilities.

He never said it was technically impossible. Are you trolling or just not reading? He said it wasn't in the cards.

 

[Inuhanyou]

what are you even trying to say? Especially in the case of R&C, I'm not sure what your point is. It's a console exclusive game

I'm saying, consoles generally don't prioritize 60fps, unless your Nintendo, and even then, they will sacrifice that if they have to. People should have gotten over it a long time ago.

You must've never owned a PS2. Or a Nintendo console.

Yikes.

I owned all of those besides Wii, and the point stays the same. Either back then or now, 60fps will never be standard. There were plenty of 30fps and below titles then as well, just certain developers prioritized higher FPS more at the time. Now they don't.

 

[bigfurb]

I swear, every pro thread gets turned to shit with the same "concerns" every time.

 

[platocplx]

Can we stop calling devs idiots to their face?

Thanks!

Jesus, people. Just... try to have a shred of empathy.

The raging by some posters over their decisions is why i see why devs rarely interact with people who have no idea of their thought process or are just way too invested in the 60FPS or nothing nonsense. The game plays great and looks beautiful just as they intended.

I swear, every pro thread gets turned to shit with the same "concerns" every time.

Every single time im just going to ignore them from now on. All they do is derail threads with their weird evangelism for specs

 

[velociraptor]

I really wish they went for 60FPS here. Disappointing.

 

[icespide]

Can we stop calling devs idiots to their face?

Thanks!

Jesus, people. Just... try to have a shred of empathy.

Yeah this thread took a turn

 

[platina]

I am absolutely in love with their "Temporal Injection" technique and even though the screens are compressed and the game is not native 4k it looks extremely impressive. I hope more developers experiment with this implementation!

 

[dogen]

The image quality in those 4K screens definitely looks different from what I've seen of games using checkerboard rendering. The edges look blurry instead of fuzzy, more like the usual look like you get from upscaling. Interesting. I guess the likes of Digital Foundry are gonna have their work cut out for them in the future.

Heh. Just wait until games start using variable sampling rates in addition to temporal reprojection. If you think pixel counting is tricky now..

You do know that jstevenson works at Insomniac, which is why that question was put to him specifically, right?

That's why I asked him.

 

[Oneself]

It already looks amazing, I sure will hunt my gold bolts on the Pro.

 

[jstevenson]

Would you say viewing the screens on the current PS4 on a TV would give a good idea of what the actual game will look like on the Pro? (minus HDR and not being in motion)

I guess? If you have a way to view those 4K images on a 4K screen it should give you a good idea.

If you're displaying them at 1080p or on a non 4K TV, you'll get some idea of it.

 

[jstevenson]

Digital Foundry mentioned this in an interview with Mark Cerny.

"Both the upcoming Spider-Man and For Honor use four million jittered samples to produce what the developers believe to be a superior technique compared to checkerboarding, with a similar computational cost."

I assume this is what R&C is doing?

Yes

 

[dogen]

Yes

Very cool. It looks great.

 

[Gestault]

This is absolutely brilliant news. The game already looked jaw-dropping.

 

[GhostOfSparta305]

I owned all of those besides Wii, and the point stays the same. Either back then or now, 60fps will never be standard. There were plenty of 30fps and below titles then as well, just certain developers prioritized higher FPS more at the time. Now they don't.

If the vast majority of the best sellers on all of those platforms targeted 60fps, that means it was a standard. Really no argument there.

It doesn't need to be standard now. It just needs to be an option, since there's clearly demand for it.

 

[Alebrije]

People ruining their experience because the 60fps stuff, yea it would be cool but just because a game is not developed thinking on FPS does not means has great gameplay. Compare this with people that ruins thier gameplay experience because they are trophy hunters , they are more focused to get all the trophies than enjoy the overall experience.

Also PSpro is just an improvement over PS4 , Sony clearly said it , is just like comparing a Mustang 2016 V4 engine and later Ford releases a Mustang 2106 V6.

60 FPS on 1080p /4K stuff will be on PS5 ( maybe). Cerny said 8 TFlops is the minimum to get native 4K ( but not 60 FPS ) on games , we can guess PS5 will have 8 or more...maybe then 60fps games will be a standard but meanwhile why not enjoy what we have.

 

[icespide]

So the vast majority of the best selling games on all of those platforms targeting 60fps somehow means it wasn't standard? Flawless logic.

And it doesn't need to be standard now. It just needs to be an option, since there's clearly demand for it.

How is there clearly demand for it?

 

[Elginer]

Will buy, thanks Insomniac

 

[VLiberty]

Can we stop calling devs idiots to their face?

Thanks!

Jesus, people. Just... try to have a shred of empathy.

"doing this would be an idiocy" =|= "they're idiots", if you're referring to my post.

 

[platocplx]

How is there clearly demand for it?

This is gonna be a good one, lmao beacause its purely anecdotal. Most consumers dont care about FPS they care more the game is responsive, looks good to them and is fun. Its clear all that is achievable for most people at 30. But im sure they are repling with there are dozens of us!

 

[breakfuss]

This info only came out a few hours ago. People are trying to make sense of it while weighing it against an impending $400 hardware upgrade. Admittedly I'm not as tech savvy as some of you so I honestly thought performance would be one of the improvements made to some games. Evidently not. I swear my opinion on the Pro changes from week to week. I have a 4K TV so I hope I'll be able to discern the "difference". Either way I need a larger hard drive and want to unload the old PS4 before it finally explodes lol. Hopefully we get an improved fan too.

 

[Harlock]

In the end would be more work and cost to optimize for 60fps than better anti aliasing.

The interesting thing is that in the past, Youtube could not show 60fps, only the better graphics. And now Youtube can show 60fps while 4k is kind of limits because most people will not watch in a 4k monitor.

 

[Inuhanyou]

If the vast majority of the best sellers on all of those platforms targeted 60fps, that means it was a standard. Really no argument there.

It doesn't need to be standard now. It just needs to be an option, since there's clearly demand for it.

That is a minority in a sea of thousands of games.

The fact of the matter is there is no large demand, just a vocal minority who is getting annoying at this point.

30fps did not stop R&C PS4 from being a success with the best sales in the series. And it won't going forward.

 

[GhostOfSparta305]

How is there clearly demand for it?

Huh.

how long must we endure this "no 60fps??!?" nonsense in Pro threads?

You tell me.

 

[castaction]

man those screen look great but i dont have a 4k tv yet cant wait to see the improvement on a 1080p :O

 

[Unknown?]

This info only came out a few hours ago. People are trying to make sense of it while weighing it against an impending $400 hardware upgrade. Admittedly I'm not as tech savvy as some of you so I honestly thought performance would be one of the improvements made to some games. Evidently not. I swear my opinion on the Pro changes from week to week. I have a 4K TV so I hope I'll be able to discern the "difference". Either way I need a larger hard drive and want to unload the old PS4 before it finally explodes lol. Hopefully we get an improved fan too.

But SOME games are getting those improvements and I'd argue if you can see the difference between 30/60fps you'll be able to see the difference between 1080/4K.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

Well this thread is....

Some stuff - those screens are straight pulls from the frame buffer.

Temporal injection is a different approach ban checkerbording to get to 2160p that gets you AA too. We think it looks better.

The game is designed to run at a locked 30 so making frame rate changes was never in the cards. Sorry

It looks even better in HDR.

The engine tech was developed on our current stuff first and then we ported it back here.

Thanks for your work! Can't wait to see this game in HDR, should look incredible.

Edit: Any word if the patch will go live early so we can check out HDR on the regular PS4?

 

[shortsoptional]

If the vast majority of the best sellers on all of those platforms targeted 60fps, that means it was a standard. Really no argument there.

It doesn't need to be standard now. It just needs to be an option, since there's clearly demand for it.

"MOM... I want this game...please! "

"Son, it's not even 60FPS"

"Oh dang...then scratch that... "

We enthusiasts don't make up a clear demand. A lot of us are happy with 30fps who are enthusiasts too.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

It was 60fps but at 720p.

And doesn't look as good as R and C.