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[Crossing Eden]

EDIT:The title should be:considering opposition to feminism, black lives matter, LBGT rights, as just different opinions.

More and more I see this happening where people are considering even straight up nazism as "just a difference of opinion." I say absolutely fuck that noise.

Opposing the rights of POC, women, LBGT, and everyone else who gets shafted in America on a daily basis dude to systemic injustice isn't just a different opinion. Considering it to be just as simple as a difference of opinion normalizes and emboldens those views. Giving the opposition of basic human rights a platform normalizes and emboldens those who see me as inferior based on my color.

Another big issue I see cropping up in threads is the idea that doing anything but the quietest and most peaceful protests is "wrong" and that it only emboldens white supremacy. Addressed here in this post:

We're in a social moment where doing anything that challenges actual Nazis at all is seen as "emboldening" them.

The left has no equivalent for this knee-jerk reaction. The mainstream reaction to BLM, for example, is not "be nice or they'll get even louder", it's "make those fuckers sit down."

People trying to be cool and calm only where the right is concerned, while having veins pop up in their foreheads when some football player takes a knee, is a big part of what's empowered the far right so much.

This mentality doesn't help in any given situation and CERTAINLY never helps discussion where the rights of others are concerned. Basic human rights aren't up for debate.

EDIT:And guess what, it actually works:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/21/...=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article

Looks like punching Nazis does, in fact, work.

A nazi is now afraid to be an asshat and due to the spread of this his influence has weakened.

 

[kamspy]

What rights do the groups you mentioned not have under the law?

 

[Crossing Eden]

What rights do the groups you mentioned not have under the law?

BLM, feminism, and LBGT movements likely wouldn't exist if the people they're for had the same rights and treatment in society as the white majority.

 

[kamspy]

BLM, feminism, and LBGT movements wouldn't exist if they had the same rights and were considered as equals to the majority.

I meant under the law. I understand that many people discriminate against them.

 

[Slayven]

I will never get it, my humanity is not up for debate

 

[Sai-kun]

What rights do the groups you mentioned not have under the law?

queer people can be fired for being queer in many states

it's only ever people who aren't affected by not having rights or opportunities that minorities seek that tell me 'oh it's just an opinion, don't be so upset'

 

[Byakuya769]

I meant under the law. I understand that many people discriminate against them.

Get to your point.

 

[Frozenprince]

Naaah. If hearing "stop killing us" and "treat us equally" is something you find no value in. That's not your opinion, you're just pond scum and there is no value in trying to speak to people like that, despite what some people may say.

Fuck those bigoted pricks.

 

[Darryl M R]

I will never get it, my humanity is not up for debate

And it's not "just politics"

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I meant under the law. I understand that many people discriminate against them.

What's your point? Systemic injustice is the greater underlying point here.

 

[captive]

I meant under the law. I understand that many people discriminate against them.

are you being purposefully obtuse? Its clear from just a cursory glance that black people are treated different under that same law and law enforcement than white people. Just one instance.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I will never get it, my humanity is not up for debate

Basically.

I meant under the law. I understand that many people discriminate against them.

You mean besides the lack of equal pay for women, the fact that bills are introduced in order to make it so that women don't have a choice when it comes to having a child, voter suppression laws coupled the systemic racism in the police where even something as benign as a POC sitting on a bench can be considered a killable offense compared to a white person doing the same, the proposals that would overturn legal marriage for LGBT? You want me to keep going or do you really wanna do this song and dance right now?

 

[Unknown One]

Hell no. Some of those opinions are extremely harmful and ignorant. A bigot is a fucking bigot.

 

[Frozenprince]

And it's not "just politics"

This is our lives.

 

[Suite Pee]

I'm planning to do some reading on the Weimar Republic so I can find examples of how people treated NSDAP as just another group with different opinions.

 

[Slayven]

 

[Gotdatmoney]

If it's just different opinions than can you fuck off on making abortion illegal?

 

[Poodlestrike]

To be honest, it's symptomatic of the utter failings of the US education system in teaching people about critical thinking and empathy. By putting Nazi beliefs on par with any other part of the normal political divide, you're effectively rendering all discourse on any political subject meaningless. It's horrifying, both intellectually and morally.

 

[Gutek]

What rights do the groups you mentioned not have under the law?

Voting rights
Paid family leave
Religious freedom laws/bathroom bills

 

[everyday math]

What rights do the groups you mentioned not have under the law?

Because if we don't keep fighting(god forbid we still have too) this "Indiana legislators are proposing an all-out abortion ban" will get passed.

It's not that we don't have some of them. It's that people keep trying to take it away. What you see in that link will happen in many different areas. Along with defunding PP.

 

[Slo]

I disagree with the premise that any movement is above criticism.

 

[guek]

There are limits though, and discerning where those limits are seem to be difficult for some. The nazi getting punched is a good example. Do I support nazis and think they should have a platform? No. Did he deserve to get punched? Yes. Did I enjoy seeing him get punched? Absolutely. Would I advocate it again the future? Absolutely not. Saying Nazis shouldn't get lynched in the streets should not invoke such strong pushback or accusations of nazi sympathizing. There are good reasons not to encourage people to lawlessly assault people they perceive to be hurting society because doing so encourages violence in retaliation and the notion that taking justice into your own hands is OK. Even if someone like a nazi obviously "deserves" to be punished, encouraging people to make that kind of judgement in general is not a good idea. Doing so fosters lashing out which will inevitably cause innocent people to enter the crosshairs.

 

[Gutek]

I disagree with the premise that any movement is above criticism.

The premise is: get the fuck out of the way.

 

[Slayven]

I disagree with the premise that any movement is above criticism.

Where does it say that? Just that if you just want to opt in to be the devil's advocate then we don't have time for that. If you going to speak on something speak on all of it.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I disagree with the premise that any movement is above criticism.

Movements aren't above criticism but why would you ever feel the need to criticize the central ideas behind movements meant to embolden and normalize the basic rights of people who aren't straight white men?

There are limits though, and discerning where those limits are seem to be difficult for some. The nazi getting punched is a good example. Do I support nazis and think they should have a platform? No. Did he deserve to get punched? Yes. Did I enjoy seeing him get punched? Absolutely. Would I advocate it again the future? Absolutely not. Saying Nazis shouldn't get lynched in the streets should not invoke such strong pushback or accusations of nazi sympathizing. There are good reasons not to encourage people to lawlessly assault people they perceive to be hurting society because doing so encourages violence in retaliation and the notion that taking justice into your own hands is OK. Even if someone like a nazi obviously "deserves" to be punished, encouraging people to make that kind of judgement in general is not a good idea. Doing so fosters lashing out which will inevitably cause innocent people to enter the crosshairs.

It's important to remember that this country was founded on people taking justice in their own hands. While I don't support the outright lynching of nazism I do support the suppression of everything they stand for. And yes that includes punching an asshat in the face and waking everyone up when he's given a platform.

 

[Carpe Carnim]

I disagree with the premise that any movement is above criticism.

Slo: name checks out

'If you have a critique of our movement, you better have a history of speaking against our oppression'

Try reading for comprehension next time

 

[Nepenthe]

Roughly made this thread awhile ago.

Not surprised to see my fellow "progressives" and "allies" still hemming and hawwing over whether or not we should ostracize fucking Nazis. That privilege must be that good.

 

[lawnchair]

it bummed me out to hear gerstman on the bombcast refer to all of palmer luckey's shit as just "his personal politics" or whatever.

 

[AJLma]

Some people are so mentally sick and so subservient to certain ideals that the difference between right and wrong doesn't matter to them, as long as it's their "team" winning at the end of the day and their leaders promise to throw them some scraps.

it bummed me out to hear gerstman on the bombcast refer to all of palmer luckey's shit as just "his personal politics" or whatever.

Majorly. The beginning of my unsubscription from their content unfortunately. White supremacy and people who make excuses for it don't get my money.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Roughly made this thread awhile ago.

Not surprised to see my fellow "progressives" and "allies" still hemming and hawwing over whether or not we should ostracize fucking Nazis. That privilege must be that good.

What is this nazi punching refering to? Is it a video?

 

[Frozenprince]

Roughly made this thread awhile ago.

Not surprised to see my fellow "progressives" and "allies" still hemming and hawwing over whether or not we should ostracize fucking Nazis. That privilege must be that good.

Immediately post election was the fucking worst

 

[BajiBoxer]

I disagree with the premise that any movement is above criticism.

I would question your literacy if that's what you got out of that.

 

[Sai-kun]

What is this nazi punching refering to? Is it a video?

richard spencer, a nazi, got suckerpunched a couple days ago and it was fantastic, but all the moderate concern trolls are worried that this makes us 'just as bad' as n a z i s

 

[Tuck]

Opinions are not equal, and some do not deserve respect.

"I do not like LGBT/black/etc people" is not an acceptable opinion.

 

[Tain]

richard spencer, a nazi, got suckerpunched a couple days ago and it was fantastic, but all the moderate concern trolls are worried that this makes us 'just as bad' as n a z i s

Yeah, this has been the lamest hand-wringing lately.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Opinions are not equal, and some do not deserve respect.

"I do not like LGBT/black/etc people" is not an acceptable opinion.

Even further, most minority groups would be fine just ignoring people that simply hate them just cause or at least it'd be easier to tolerate. But that hate extendeds into policy seeking to damage and destroy those minorities. People like to say "it's just a different opinion" when the real reason it makes people angry is that their opinions have lethality.

 

[Captin Quacker]

Dear God that nazi Spencer thread was some high caliber crazy

 

[Crossing Eden]

What is this nazi punching refering to? Is it a video?

People were tripping over themselves to say that punching this person:

makes us just as bad as them and that it only emboldens nazism. Literally fighting back against nazism somehow emboldens it. Meaning that in their eyes, someone would watch that video of a white dude punching a nazi and somehow that would make the viewer a nazi supporter himself.
Basically:

They didn't see how absolutely stupid that line of thought was especially with the U.S.'s reaction that could be summed up in the following:

Coupled with fuckery like misquoting MLK.

 

[RDreamer]

I disagree with the premise that any movement is above criticism.

That's not the premise.

The premise here is people pretending they sympathize despite having literally no history actually helping the movement, but they spend their time critiquing it. You can criticize a movement that you claim to believe in if you're doing something to further that cause. You cannot if you aren't doing jack fucking shit.

 

[Rembrandt]

It's really fucking dumb. Not everything deserves to be heard or should be accepted as just a different opinion

 

[FadedRevolution]

People were tripping over themselves to say that punching this person:


makes us just as bad as them and that it only emboldens nazism. Literally fighting back against nazism somehow emboldens it. Coupled with fuckery like misquoting MLK.

But we need to reach these people and cure their ignorance and not hold them responsible for themselves.

 

[Buzzman]

it bummed me out to hear gerstman on the bombcast refer to all of palmer luckey's shit as just "his personal politics" or whatever.

Majorly. The beginning of my unsubscription from their content unfortunately. White supremacy and people who make excuses for it don't get my money.

I don't understand how you think GB of all things "condoned" Palmer.

By itself, simply voting for Trump does not a "Hottest Mess" make. What does make for a scalding hot mess is the complete unmaking of a man's image over the course of a year [...]and an at least tangential association with (and documented financial support of) some of the most mortifying elements of 2016's Grand Guignol political theater.

 

[Nepenthe]

Immediately post election was the fucking worst

One good thing came from it. It was like the "flashlight at eye level" trick- we were suddenly able to see all the snakes that were really in the grass.

 

[Bronx-Man]

There's no time to waste on people that think bigotry is a valid opinion or something you can reason with. Either move or be moved.

 

[Red]

I like the Karl Popper quote:
If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

richard spencer, a nazi, got suckerpunched a couple days ago and it was fantastic, but all the moderate concern trolls are worried that this makes us 'just as bad' as n a z i s

People were tripping over themselves to say that punching this person:


makes us just as bad as them and that it only emboldens nazism. Literally fighting back against nazism somehow emboldens it. Meaning that in their eyes, someone would watch that video of a white dude punching a nazi and somehow that would make the viewer a nazi supporter himself.
Basically:

Coupled with fuckery like misquoting MLK.

I just watched the video. That dude deserves to get punched in the face. I dont feel bad for him at all. Like I'm bout to sympathize that bullshit.

 

[daviyoung]

well, it is just a different opinion

is the problem that saying "just a different opinion" means that the person is being dismissive and playing down the impact of the subject?

 

[Carpe Carnim]

well, it is just a different opinion

is the problem that saying "just a different opinion" means that the person is being dismissive and playing down the impact of the subject?

Eliminationist rhetoric isn't a "difference of opinion" it's a threat we spilled blood and treasure in the 20th century to battle.

Nazism is not an opinion, it's a promise of violence.

 

[Slayven]

I wish everyone that speaks out of the side of their mouths about MLK, step on Legos barefoot for the rest of their days

 

[RMI]

well, it is just a different opinion

is the problem that saying "just a different opinion" means that the person is being dismissive and playing down the impact of the subject?

No, it's just that the premise that all opinions deserve equal consideration and protection is ludicrous when held up to even the most basic scrutiny.

If your "opinion" is that it's a reasonable thing to wonder aloud whether the world needs the black race, you don't deserve any consideration. You deserve to get punched in the face.