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[Woo-Fu]

Because if we're being honest, the majority of the American movie-going audience doesn't give a single shit about whitewashing in Hollywood.

And even if they do care it isn't going to stop them from seeing a movie they're interested in or make them see a movie they don't care about.

The true relationship between the whitewashing and the movie is that the controversy is more interesting than the movie. I've read/watched most of the previous GitS material but the previews for this movie did nothing for me, I can't imagine how dull they were for people who weren't already fans. Dull, dull, dull.

 

[bengraven]

Sad. Looks tolerable and appeals to me visually.

Will give it a buy when it's on bluray.

 

[BocoDragon]

I just saw the movie and really liked it.

They nailed the anime aesthetic of this movie. I've never seen a movie that looked so much like what I loved about cyberpunk anime in the 90s. It's not the rusted dystopia of the original, but the technicholor neon look was fresh and somehow authentically anime.

So I'm gonna say, unfortunately, general audiences rejected this movie for the reasons that many of us like the original and anime in general. It's not for the whitewashing. It's because that old nerd boast that if Hollywood finally woke up to anime adaptations that they'd be successful has always been wrong. They finally made something that is pure anime aesthetic, and the masses shrugged.

 

[Fat4all]

I think they're coming out with one in Japan about Josuke 4 sometime this year. I saw the poster for it.

yeah, that's the one im talking about, Miike is directing it

 

[ronaldthump]

And critics weren’t inclined to give the film a free pass. Paramount could tell by the Google searches it was monitoring that in the final week before the film opened, potential moviegoers were checking out reviews before making a decision in higher than usual numbers.

Initially, the film’s Rotten Tomatoes score rose as high as 71 percent positive reviews, based on the first enthusiastic fanboy reactions and critiques from Europe. But as the week progressed and more reviews poured in, the movie’s score began to plummet, eventually falling to 42 percent. Ghost’s tracking, which initially suggested the film might open in the high-$20 million range, maybe even cross over into low-$30 million territory, hit a wall.

“It was very Rotten Tomatoes-sensitive. Lots of people were seeking out information about the film,” says Colligan. “And we got hit pretty hard by the print journalists.”

just curious. Did everyone miss this? Its one of the things that really just stood out to me as to why its tanking. If it had good reviews, it wouldn't be bombing so poorly white washing or not.

 

[Lord Frieza]

I just saw the movie and really liked it.

They nailed the anime aesthetic of this movie. I've never seen a movie that looked so much like what I loved about cyberpunk anime in the 90s. It's not the rusted dystopia of the original, but the technicholor neon look was fresh and somehow authentically anime.

So I'm gonna say, unfortunately, general audiences rejected this movie for the reasons that many of us like the original and anime in general. It's not for the whitewashing. It's because that old nerd boast that if Hollywood finally woke up to anime adaptations that they'd be successful has always been wrong. They finally made something that is pure anime aesthetic, and the masses shrugged.

Wouldn't that be less a rejection of anime and more a rejection of futuristic cyberpunk, though?

 

[ronaldthump]

https://youtu.be/sEDctELIm3I

finally watched the trailer. Um, that was actually quite a good trailer. gave away michael pitt though.

 

[BocoDragon]

Wouldn't that be less a rejection of anime and more a rejection of futuristic cyberpunk, though?

I suppose "anime" is a big word and other things in the genre could succeed. But I do mean more than just the cyberpunk setting in specific. The extremely odd themes for mainstream American tastes, cold otherworldly settings, and the general sense of Otherness.

I mean I'd be just as pessimistic about the success of a live action Evangelion or Ninja Scroll at this point, and those aren't cyberpunk.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

just curious. Did everyone miss this? Its one of the things that really just stood out to me as to why its tanking. If it had good reviews, it wouldn't be bombing so poorly white washing or not.

It would have better reviews if it was a better movie.

 

[Laieon]

I know nothing about Ghost in the Shell going into it, but I enjoyed it. Not the best movie in the world, but a nice popcorn flick.

 

[Monochromaticx]

Ghost in the theatre

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Why don't you watch your language instead of attempting to insult me because I used the word "trigger". You seem to be a little too sensitive.

Nah why don't I continue calling out moronic comments for what they are.

 

[JP_]

Good thing they cast Scarjo so this wouldn't happen.

 

[Schlep]

Theater we went to was full, and I enjoyed it*.

*

Spoiler

I was drunk.

 

[Gully State]

just curious. Did everyone miss this? Its one of the things that really just stood out to me as to why its tanking. If it had good reviews, it wouldn't be bombing so poorly white washing or not.

I don't think anyone here is saying that it bombed because of the white washing (because Asian Americans are not only diverse but collectively make up 5.6% of the US's population).but rather star power doesn't make a bad movie automatically profitable.

 

[Measley]

Wow, I'm surprised they spent that much. I mean the movie looked gorgeous, but they really should have looked to cut costs in some places.

That said, I can imagine the international gross and future DVD/Blu-ray sales of this film taking care of the budget.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

GitS is probably the most prominent anime outside of Naruto/One Piece/Bleach.

I love GitS, but nah, it isn't even close. It's a cult classic at best on Western shores, and not as well known as Akira.

 

[Laieon]

GitS is probably the most prominent anime outside of Naruto/One Piece/Bleach.

Pokemon and Yugioh say hello.

 

[KyleCross]

I love GitS, but nah, it isn't even close. It's a cult classic at best on Western shores, and not as well known as Akira.

Very much disagree. GitS is up there with Akira in popularity. It's one of the most influential animes of all time.

 

[Chumley]

Just saw it and loved it. Rotten tomatoes score makes no sense to me, the story and script was simple yet human but the characters were great and the atmosphere was straight up mesmerizing. I also thought Scarjo was great, very similar to her performance in Under the Skin but with more warmth.

As far as it bombing, I don't think different marketing or really much of anything would have changed the outcome. Cyberpunk has always been a hard sell and Major isn't a traditional superhero type character everyone wants to see in blockbusters.

 

[kevin1025]

It's getting my $3 in 15 hours! I'll be the one that breaks them even!

 

[Haly]

Very much disagree. GitS is up there with Akira in popularity. It's one of the most influential animes of all time.

Popularity isn't the same thing as influential but I agree with the latter.

GITS is not that important to audiences but it's pretty important to people in film, relative to a lot of anime and live action films.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I just saw the movie and really liked it.

They nailed the anime aesthetic of this movie. I've never seen a movie that looked so much like what I loved about cyberpunk anime in the 90s. It's not the rusted dystopia of the original, but the technicholor neon look was fresh and somehow authentically anime.

So I'm gonna say, unfortunately, general audiences rejected this movie for the reasons that many of us like the original and anime in general. It's not for the whitewashing. It's because that old nerd boast that if Hollywood finally woke up to anime adaptations that they'd be successful has always been wrong. They finally made something that is pure anime aesthetic, and the masses shrugged.

They made a bland forgettable movie. There's good to it but the RT score checks out.

 

[Jarmel]

Popularity isn't the same thing as influential but I agree with the latter.

GITS is not that important to audiences but it's pretty important to people in film, relative to a lot of anime and live action films.

I would say it's at least up there with Akira in popularity. If you've heard of Akira then chances are extremely high you've heard of GitS. Not to mention one is a dead franchise and the other still has entries coming out.

 

[Chumley]

They made a bland forgettable movie. There's good to it but the RT score checks out.

If you're judging by what other movies get that score, no it doesn't. Not even close. RT isn't infallible and becomes less reliable every year.

 

[Permanently A]

Very much disagree. GitS is up there with Akira in popularity. It's one of the most influential animes of all time.

Gits is influencial, but not popular. The big three are popular. DBZ is popular. Pokemon is popular.

 

[Jobbs]

If you're judging by what other movies get that score, no it doesn't. Not even close. RT isn't infallible and becomes less reliable every year.

This. For example, RT routinely gives high marks to each more boring and mind numbing and pointless than the last Avengers type movies.

I haven't seen GITS though -- All I know is a lot of love and care went into the visual aspect of it. It's beautiful, and they utilized not only CG but a lot of meticulously detailed props.

If anyone is genuinely upset that Scarjo was cast as the major -- I'm sorry you're upset, but by and large i don't think movie going audiences are highly aware of this and I don't think the movie doing poorly had anything to do with her not being played by a Japanese actress.

 

[Monochromaticx]

Ghost in the box (office)

 

[BocoDragon]

They made a bland forgettable movie. There's good to it but the RT score checks out.

The RT score might have depressed turnout, but by and large mass audiences rejected this on its face value.

The conclusion to take away is that general audiences don't want to see any Ghost in the Shell movie, and it wouldn't matter how high the RT score is or if it stars an Asian actress or not.

I also think you need a better pejorative for this movie than "bland". It's one of the most stunning looking movies of the year.

 

[LizardKing]

This won't mean no more white washing. It will mean no more anime stuff.

 

[Nanashrew]

This won't mean no more white washing. It will mean no more anime stuff.

I doubt it will be much of a deterrent. Hollywood still tries to make video game adaptations.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

Gits is influencial, but not popular. The big three are popular. DBZ is popular. Pokemon is popular.

Pokemon is more popular as a game. Sailor Moon is more popular than it

 

[Nanashrew]

Pokemon is more popular as a game. Sailor Moon is more popular than it

Pokemon is also super popular in merchandising and toys.

EDIT
Also here too: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1215229

Pokemon's popularity and sales are still continuing to grow even after 20 years.

 

[Chumley]

The RT score might have depressed turnout, but by and large mass audiences rejected this on its face value.

The conclusion to take away is that general audiences don't want to see any Ghost in the Shell movie, and it wouldn't matter how high the RT score is or if it stars an Asian actress or not.

I also think you need a better pejorative for this movie than "bland". It's one of the most stunning looking movies of the year.

I've noticed a fair bit of hypocrisy with some of the criticism of GitS, honestly. As an adaptation, it strips down and changes the source about as much as Game of Thrones does (and IMO GoT is far worse about this), and that show is basically praised for it. As a film and a script, it's a very simplistic story about alienation and literally living inside someone else's skin. It deals with the same themes and ideas Under the Skin does, only done a little more bluntly, but from an atmosphere and visual point of view it's a complete success. It realizes it's world and vision as well as any blockbuster or sci-fi film in recent memory.

"Bland" is a criticism I really don't understand either. It absolutely doesn't measure up to the original and could have done way better as an adaptation, but that doesn't mean it was a failure or even a bad movie. For the story it wanted to tell, it succeeded in almost every way besides some very dodgy plotting, and it can't be said enough how impressive the visual aesthetic is.

 

[Branduil]

It's pretty convenient that when a whitewashed movie bombs, it's "oh people just didn't like the premise," but if it was the same movie with a minority lead, everyone would blame the lack of star power.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

It's...interesting, seeing so many people trying to dismiss whitewashing or its effects on the movie's reception.

I can't help but feel that if the Major was a black character who was being played by a white lady, people won't be as enthusiastically rushing out to minimize the controversy.

 

[Jobbs]

It's pretty convenient that when a whitewashed movie bombs, it's "oh people just didn't like the premise," but if it was the same movie with a minority lead, everyone would blame the lack of star power.

I don't think we can ever say for sure why many things bomb or shatter expectations. Being a good movie can have something to do with it and the reverse, but clearly that's not always the case. It's all just a big crapshoot. Sequels to things that did well are much safer and that's why we get so many of those

 

[EdibleKnife]

It's pretty convenient that when a whitewashed movie bombs, it's "oh people just didn't like the premise," but if it was the same movie with a minority lead, everyone would blame the lack of star power.

It's a real prevelant dissonance that has kept minorities down in Hollywood since "land" was still part of the sign. People need to stop thinking of diversity as a risk.

 

[BocoDragon]

It's...interesting, seeing so many people trying to dismiss whitewashing or its effects on the movie's reception.

I can't help but feel that if the Major was a black character who was being played by a white lady, people won't be as enthusiastically rushing out to minimize the controversy.

Let's be fair, the "whitewashing" claim has definitely stuck to this movie, and forums like this are full of people ready to beat the movie over the head for it. It's not getting a free pass on this issue. It seems to be the theme of early every article written about it.

I rather perceive those arguing against it to be a contrarian minority.

 

[Kieli]

Don't think it was the whitewashing that caused it to bomba so bad. It just doesn't look very interesting and this is coming from a person who is vaguely familiar with the source material.

 

[Chumley]

Let's be fair, the "whitewashing" claim has definitely stuck to this movie, and forums like this are full of people ready to beat the movie over the head for it. It's not getting a free pass on this issue. It seems to be the theme of early every article written about it.

I rather perceive those arguing against it to be a contrarian minority.

One of the people arguing against it is the director of the original film. Calling him a "contrarian" is pretty funny.

 

[TDLink]

It's...interesting, seeing so many people trying to dismiss whitewashing or its effects on the movie's reception.

I can't help but feel that if the Major was a black character who was being played by a white lady, people won't be as enthusiastically rushing out to minimize the controversy.

No one is arguing the white washing is good. Obviously it's a shitty thing that happened. But I think it's legitimate to think it isn't the primary cause of the movie failing. If it factored in at all, it was relatively minor, because the fact is most people don't care. What hurt the movie much more was poor writing, poor action, and poor marketing...which led to poor critical reviews, poor word of mouth, and general apathy.

Sci-fi is also inherently niche and as a blockbuster release this film is also competing with Logan, Fast 8, and Kong at the very least in the same time period (which frankly all had better trailers and clearly better action than this movie). Plus Power Rangers, Beauty and the Beast, and Boss Baby which aren't necessarily the same audiences but could contain some members of the same audiences. March was just a very packed month, and not everyone can see everything they want. With a lot of options out there at once it's easy for people to go with movies that look more interesting to them.

 

[Sesha]

Warning! Completely new, original thought: Maybe they should have tried making a good movie. Starting by not getting the director of smash hit Snow White and the Huntsman.

The RT score might have depressed turnout, but by and large mass audiences rejected this on its face value.

The conclusion to take away is that general audiences don't want to see any Ghost in the Shell movie, and it wouldn't matter how high the RT score is or if it stars an Asian actress or not.

I also think you need a better pejorative for this movie than "bland". It's one of the most stunning looking movies of the year.

The poor critical reception certainly didn't help, and a positive one wouldn't have hurt.

 

[Saya]

One of the people arguing against it is the director of the original film. Calling him a "contrarian" is pretty funny.

That director also cited John Wayne's role as Genghis Khan as a positive.

 

[border]

just curious. Did everyone miss this? Its one of the things that really just stood out to me as to why its tanking. If it had good reviews, it wouldn't be bombing so poorly white washing or not.

Even if the movie had made $30 million last weekend, that would still be a pretty bad performance.

It's pretty convenient that when a whitewashed movie bombs, it's "oh people just didn't like the premise," but if it was the same movie with a minority lead, everyone would blame the lack of star power.

When do people ever overwhelmingly blame "lack of star power" on poorly performing minority-lead films? Kind of a difficult example to track though, since most of the time if there's a minority lead character (s)he is usually already a known celebrity.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I clowned the shit out of this movie for the whitewashing, but ultimately I'm still going to see it. It could surprise us, i dunno

I don't expect much from Hollywood or general audiences wrt casting and/or butchering IPs from other countries, so I can only be pleasantly surprised if it's good lol

Looking forward to ANTHONY in Neo York featuring Thomas and Kale

 

[BocoDragon]

One of the people arguing against it is the director of the original film. Calling him a "contrarian" is pretty funny.

I was talking about this thread.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

No one is arguing the white washing is good. Obviously it's a shitty thing that happened. But I think it's legitimate to think it isn't the primary cause of the movie failing. If it factored in at all, it was relatively minor, because the fact is most people don't care. What hurt the movie much more was poor writing, poor action, and poor marketing...which led to poor critical reviews, poor word of mouth, and general apathy.

Sci-fi is also inherently niche and as a blockbuster release this film is also competing with Logan, Fast 8, and Kong at the very least in the same time period (which frankly all had better trailers and clearly better action than this movie). Plus Power Rangers, Beauty and the Beast, and Boss Baby which aren't necessarily the same audiences but could contain some members of the same audiences. March was just a very packed month, and not everyone can see everything they want. With a lot of options out there at once it's easy for people to go with movies that look more interesting to them.

I refuse to believe Sci-Fi is inherently niche in the late 2010s when Arrival made bank last year

Edit:
Interstellar, Gravity, The Martian, Star Wars

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

The RT score might have depressed turnout, but by and large mass audiences rejected this on its face value.

The conclusion to take away is that general audiences don't want to see any Ghost in the Shell movie, and it wouldn't matter how high the RT score is or if it stars an Asian actress or not.

I also think you need a better pejorative for this movie than "bland". It's one of the most stunning looking movies of the year.

The conclusion to take away from this is to make better movies. Reviews don't make or break a movie but combined with WoM it can sway the results in one extreme or the other.

This. For example, RT routinely gives high marks to each more boring and mind numbing and pointless than the last Avengers type movies.

I haven't seen GITS though -- All I know is a lot of love and care went into the visual aspect of it. It's beautiful, and they utilized not only CG but a lot of meticulously detailed props.

If anyone is genuinely upset that Scarjo was cast as the major -- I'm sorry you're upset, but by and large i don't think movie going audiences are highly aware of this and I don't think the movie doing poorly had anything to do with her not being played by a Japanese actress.

The props were great, wish there'd been more of that, instead we got 120 minutes of mostly boring action with little substance beyond that. The movie punches you in the face with subtlety. For instance they don't just hint at what GitS is supposed to mean they literally spell it out for you, multiple times, throughout the movie. They spent all their exposition dump in the beginning on pointless stuff that they explain in the movie agsin anyway. Then disregard the city the movie plays in altogether.

Personally I'm not upset about ScarJo's casting nor about the whitewashing, but the role was bungled either by her, the writer or the director or a combination thereof. I forgot they changed her name so wasn't surprised about the twist either.

It's funny you haven't seen the movie but still see the need to compare it to Marvel movies with snide remarks.

 

[Haly]

I refuse to believe Sci-Fi is inherently niche in the late 2010s when Arrival made bank last year

Me neither, but if Arrival and Ex Machina are any indication, modern audiences prefer their sci-fi to be more cerebral, outside of Marvel. Interstellar, The Martian, Gravity, all sci-fi with an eye towards "intelligent viewing".

Ironically, it leads me to think that this movie might've done better if they maintained some of Oshii's sophistication, because then audiences can feel smart for having seen it. I think perhaps the market for "big dumb action show" is dead unless you're Marvel. But then again John Wick and Deadpool prove me wrong there. It's hard to say exactly what went wrong.

Maybe this movie is just bad!