Yeah, he has a high school child. I only got to level 5 but it was getting quite interesting.
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Persona 5 Social-Link/Confidant discussion |OT| Laughing Banana is Makoto's husbando
- Thread starter Cornbread78
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Yeah, he has a high school child. I only got to level 5 but it was getting quite interesting.
Sounds cool, I guess I'll try to level his rank up a bit more to see how it goes.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
Persona has rarely gotten me to care about its male characters. Despite everyone loving Kanji I never cared about him. Dojima was the most interesting male in P4, and Sojiro pulls of the same trick in P5. However Iwai managed to be one of the better links, and hes just a good character. Still the only dude party member I've ever really cared about was Junpei
Akihiko tho...
And they even removed his shirt for the fighting games. How can you resist him?
Iwai: I've got some work for you to do in the backroom.
Me: *blush*
As impractical and ridiculous as I find the teacher romance, if Iwai had been a romance option I would be a total hypocrite right now...
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I actually enjoyed his character more in Arena than I ever did in P3. Definitely not his PQ incarnation though
Ultimadrago
Member
Akihiko's Crit Rate using those fists. Good times. Maybe those memories are what had me keep Makoto in the party for the whole game.
BRSxIgnition
Member
I'll always prefer Kanji, but Aki was great.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
If they were concerned about not undercutting their own story, they have much bigger fish to fry. Like Ann idolizing the exact type of person who she would angrily castigate in Mementos before giving them a psychic lobotomy
formasymphonic
Member
Yeh... I'm just gonna write this off as you being deliberately ironic in regards to Kamoshida/Kawakami... But even if it was genderflipped, there is no way you can compare "I see you as a trophy and you are going to have sex with me or I'll deny your friend everything she's worked for over the last few years" Kamoshida to a protagonist-initiated romance with Kawakami.
To even enter Kawakami's romance requires multiple question gating, with the final option being "I'm a man; your a woman" — specifically a declaration that you want to discard the difference between you after a whole arc playing around with the idea of status.
Adding to this, the renewed teaching aspect of her arc [Spoilers for anyone who hasn't done rank 6-10 yet]
that she recovers is also more about the guilt that she felt when she let her far of losing her position be more important than a person she wanted to support.
- The school she taught at previously wanted her to get Takase to leave.
- Seeing his home situation, she instead decides to help him.
- After some rumours start spreading the school decided to put more pressure on her directly and she got scared and gave in. She abandoned Takase, and he ends up in the series of events that lead to him dying.
The renewed goal she has for teaching (and the reason she never quit after Takase), is because she wants to be someone who won't give-up on anyone again. Its also partially selected in her desire to have you rely on her
- The school she taught at previously wanted her to get Takase to leave.
- Seeing his home situation, she instead decides to help him.
- After some rumours start spreading the school decided to put more pressure on her directly and she got scared and gave in. She abandoned Takase, and he ends up in the series of events that lead to him dying.
The renewed goal she has for teaching (and the reason she never quit after Takase), is because she wants to be someone who won't give-up on anyone again. Its also partially selected in her desire to have you rely on her
Trying to link the situations or portray them as being similar in anyway doesn't make sense at all.
Tbh, if I had to rank the emperors, I'd have a very hard time between Kanji and Akihiko. I like Yusuke too but not as much...
Still, it is an arcana with a very strong showing.
Marmaladefire
Member
Akihiko is amazing. Akihiko/Joker/Kanji would be a super strong team.
So you think that the desire to get rid of the idea that their romance is inappropriate actually makes it so? You think that Kawakami, (under the pretext of me ~taking the confidant seriously~ and not just viewing it primarily as a naughty fantasy, but something serious and valid) is completely correct in how she goes about renewing her vigor as a teacher, being someone people can lean on? You don't think that her dependence on a 17 year old; Phantom Thief or not, is a further misuse of that power and betrayal of trust? It is not about putting it next to Kamoshida as a 1:1 comparison. It is about the similarity of underlying abuses of status, of power that exist whether you want them to or not.
Hell, Kawakami is wasting her time on you if she really wants to help students. Joker is a "delinquent" but he's also smart, attractive, charming, and bffs with the student council prez. Ryuji needs Kawakami's help more academically. Mishima needs the emotional support she could provide within the school structure more.
So you think that the desire to get rid of the idea that their romance is inappropriate actually makes it so? You think that Kawakami, (under the pretext of me ~taking the confidant seriously~ and not just viewing it primarily as a naughty fantasy, but something serious and valid) is completely correct in how she goes about renewing her vigor as a teacher, being someone people can lean on? You don't think that her dependence on a 17 year old; Phantom Thief or not, is a further misuse of that power and betrayal of trust? It is not about putting it next to Kamoshida as a 1:1 comparison. It is about the similarity of underlying abuses of status, of power that exist whether you want them to or not.
Hell, Kawakami is wasting her time on you if she really wants to help students. Joker is a "delinquent" but he's also smart, attractive, charming, and bffs with the student council prez. Ryuji needs Kawakami's help more academically. Mishima needs the emotional support she could provide within the school structure more.
chrominance
Member
I honestly don't think Iwai would be as bad as Kawakami as a romance. Iwai is not your teacher. He holds no real power over you besides that of being an adult when you are not, which is the same issue all of the adult confidants have as romance options. The power relationship is a big part of why I don't like the Kawakami romance.
The biggest thing that makes an Iwai romance weird besides the adult thing is that
The biggest thing that makes an Iwai romance weird besides the adult thing is that
he has a kid your age. Though if you're rewriting the scenario to put a female protagonist in, other things could be changed. Maybe Iwai's kid is no longer a high school boy. Maybe instead, Iwai's kid is, I don't know, an eight-year-old girl...
Loved that Makoto's Yakuza movie was "Like a Dragon."
formasymphonic
Member
But at no point is Kawakami expressing or exploiting power over Joker, and at no point is she betraying any "trust" with Joker — except for the sister illness which she voluntarily confesses to (and was obvious anyway). The whole point of the link between the two of them is flipping the dynamic so she is "above" him at times as his teacher, while he is "above" her at other times (obstensibly) by her being a maid, and (substantially) by knowing her secrets. The trigger for the romance is a declaration that you want to discard the statuses, as I said before.
There is no part of her link that you the player/joker aren't actively invoking, and on several occasions around the middle of the link she tries to dissuade you from being more involved in her situation. Towards the end of the link you even have dialogue from other students exclaiming shock that she is doing more to advise and support them so it's not like she isn't doing any of those things just because you aren't being shown it for Ryuuji (who isn't in her class), and Mishima (who has an arc of his own).
If you want to discus exploitations of power/status of those who need emotional support & structure – Then its a romance with Futaba that should be raising concerns on your radar... where Joker is actually the one with power/influence over her as both the leader of the P-thieves and the pseudo-sibling whom she has an emotional dependence on. While I have no intention of claiming he is anywhere near Kamoshida, you have to admit that a romance for someone who doesn't have full emotional maturity / social skills invoked by a person they are emotionally dependent on is closer to Kamoshida's power dynamic / influence over others than Kawakami's over Joker.
This is why I originally stated that seeing Futaba romancers deflecting to Kawakami as amusing in the first place. Anyways meh, back to NG+
The world needs more Kawakami fanart.
I saw this on Reddit. Kawakami trying on Joker's glasses:
TheGamingBox
Banned
if you are anti dating futaba and have no issues with dating kawakami, you are an hypocrite and no lies you say to yourself will change that fact
BRSxIgnition
Member
.... Holy crap that's actually really cute.
RedAssedApe
Banned
Love her tussled up hair look. Her maid look not so much. :
DrunkShogun
Member
Would probably end up on kanji. Kanji was the best character in his game other than dojima while I preferred Elizabeth,aigis and mitsuru(design is too good) over boxer bro. Still waiting on the eventual cop game featuring chie,naoto and akechi.
formasymphonic
Member
You don't see how people could have less issue with romancing a teacher than someone the game positions as their "sister"?
And are those who romance futaba but look down on kawakami romance included in this label or are they exempt?
BRSxIgnition
Member
Dating Kawakami: A 17 year old that is 18 (legal) by the end of the game dating a 25-30 (legal) year old woman that used to be his teacher.
Dating Futaba: A 17 year old that is 18 (legal) by the end of the game dating a 16-17 (not legal) year old girl with limited social experience who is dependent on his advice and protection for much of her introduction.
There's a sizable difference, IMO.
motorised mallard
Member
This is / was my reaction exactly.
Those ages aren't correct are they, though?
I thought second year of high school in Japan is 16-17. So he'd be 17 by the end.
So, actually Futaba is technically the legal one, and Kawakami isn't.
That said, I find them both questionable personally.
BRSxIgnition
Member
First Year is 15-16, Second is 16-17, Third is 17-18, off the top of my head. Futaba will be going into first year
after MC leaves.
Acknowledging this is all that matters in the end ;D
Yeah, Futaba is not whom I'm questioning, she'd be going into her first year of high school when the next school year starts.
I just don't see how you come to the conclusion the MC would be 18 by the end of the game when he's in his second year of high school. There's nothing to suggest he had to wait a year to get admitted into high school or something after what happens.
BRSxIgnition
Member
If he's 17 when he enters Shujin, then he's 18 by the end of the game because at that point a year has passed.
Does it say he's 17 at the start though?
I hadn't seen. Might have forgotten I guess.
Ultimadrago
Member
Hmm, I'd like to see the info on MC being 17 when entering Shujin as well. The game specifically states that Futaba is one year younger than the MC, but I don't recall seeing his age as 17 when the game starts.
BRSxIgnition
Member
Shoot, that's actually proof against both theories.
Futaba is a year younger than MC, and is specifically stated to be 15 years old, this means that MC is 16 at the beginning of the game, and 17 at the end - a minor throughout.
Ultimadrago
Member
Yeah, I was thinking about the numbers there for a second. lol.
Yep.
BRSxIgnition
Member
Yes, which fits with second years being 16 and 17 year olds.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Iwai already
dragged a minor the same age as his own son into a gang feud that could easily end with Joker dead/arrested/worse before he even becomes a Confidant.
I agree that Iwai is a less morally questionable romantic choice than Kawakami, but the relationship between Iwai and Joker is so inherently fucked that it's sort of like "sure why not" at that point.
Granted,
"parent who is willing to dig their hands into the dirt to secure a future for their child"
tl;dr: Yoshida is the only pure adult and also cutest, therefore best boy
I mean, then Haru and Makoto turn 18, no? Don't think we really want to get into the statutory rape conversation (not even sure what convention is in Japan)...But statutory rape is just that statutory and arbitrary...Talking about power dynamics, abuse of power, relations between adult and non-adult are more interesting than just looking at the statute in my opinion.
And I do think there is something squicky in the Futaba and in the adult relationships, as I said above...but it is also a game and being played by a lot of adult people who might relate to the women more than the girls and I can see being able to deal with the questionable dependence Futaba has and enabling that, because you like other things about her/the couple.
Idk. Staffer/secretary and boss
Don't think you're anything so formal as that but had to...
And I do think there is something squicky in the Futaba and in the adult relationships, as I said above...but it is also a game and being played by a lot of adult people who might relate to the women more than the girls and I can see being able to deal with the questionable dependence Futaba has and enabling that, because you like other things about her/the couple.
Idk. Staffer/secretary and boss
Don't think you're anything so formal as that but had to...
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Idk. Staffer/secretary and boss
Don't think you're anything so formal as that but had to...
Yoshida would be the only character to successfully refuse magical demon jesus's advances.
Yeah I find papering over these issues weird--they're there and go beyond normal romantic imbalances quite clearly imo-- but also completely get wanting to do the romance you feel the most or that provides the best fantasy. I also do have a bigger mental block dating Kawakami than the other adults and than Futaba, but that is me.
I could do the mental rework on a Futaba romance I mentioned above fairly easily. Just imagine Futaba completes her list truly and I re-meet her in a year and while shy, she doesn't need me in that way anymore.
With Kawakami and (to a lesser degree) the other adults...even the flirting with the idea feels off to me personally and I can't really play MC that way, even if some of them do tickle my id in certain ways and even if some of them have decent social links.
But again, that's just me.
I could do the mental rework on a Futaba romance I mentioned above fairly easily. Just imagine Futaba completes her list truly and I re-meet her in a year and while shy, she doesn't need me in that way anymore.
With Kawakami and (to a lesser degree) the other adults...even the flirting with the idea feels off to me personally and I can't really play MC that way, even if some of them do tickle my id in certain ways and even if some of them have decent social links.
But again, that's just me.
I've kind of been in Joker's position, so as someone who had a younger (but very much legal) Japanese girl that I saw as my sister grow to have a crush on me while I was living away from home in Japan, it felt way too weird to ever pursue anything. Once you mentally put that person into a place like that, you can't see them as anything but.
Ultimadrago
Member
Such an inspiring man *sniffle*
I did enjoy Yoshida.
Sojiro was my favorite night time guy, followed by Iwai, then Yoshida, then Hifumi, then Chihaya, then Ohya.
Maybe Hifumi before Yoshida...idk. Didn't much enjoy the last two.
Edit: Oh I left Mishima out. As I said above, I don't like him but he's a good character with a good s link imo.
And...I forgot Kawakami after we've been going on about her lol. It is an amusing social link with a decent story imo. As I said, when my answers veer too romantic or suggestive it can weird me out a bit.
Sojiro was my favorite night time guy, followed by Iwai, then Yoshida, then Hifumi, then Chihaya, then Ohya.
Maybe Hifumi before Yoshida...idk. Didn't much enjoy the last two.
Edit: Oh I left Mishima out. As I said above, I don't like him but he's a good character with a good s link imo.
And...I forgot Kawakami after we've been going on about her lol. It is an amusing social link with a decent story imo. As I said, when my answers veer too romantic or suggestive it can weird me out a bit.
Violence Jack
Member
Dammit, that jus made me even more torn. Can't decide between Hifumi, Tae, and Kawakami now.
cj_iwakura
Member
So true.I saw it, absolutely adorable. Best girl in the universe.
Marmaladefire
Member
He, the twins and Sojiro were the links where your goal wasn't to choose the option that led to fucking or flattering your way into help so I felt really comfortable just choosing whatever felt best and not how to get the most notes in the fastest time.
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