Question about Eternal Punishment (playthrough in progress), relevant to the topic:
Does Baofu always get paired with Ulala and Katsuya with Maya in the events?
Curious because at one point I had to choose between Katsuya and Baofu and was wondering if they keep pushing Katsuya at me because I chose him, or if that is just the way it goes?
In P4AN you could buy headphone accessories for all the characters and most of them were variants of AKG cans. MC from P3 also wears ATH branded clip ons.
Question about Eternal Punishment (playthrough in progress), relevant to the topic:
Does Baofu always get paired with Ulala and Katsuya with Maya in the events?
Curious because at one point I had to choose between Katsuya and Baofu and was wondering if they keep pushing Katsuya at me because I chose him, or if that is just the way it goes?
Not sure on the actual answer since I haven't played EP in a long time, nor did I finish it. That said, considering I'm pretty sure Katsuya has a thing for Maya, I wouldn't be surprised if Katsuya was probably considered the 'canon' choice.
I do think it'd be cool if other party members developed their relationships - and not necessarily just romantically - outside of the scope of the MC. I romanced Ann, but from what I've heard regarding the late-game, it'd have been interesting to see something develop between her and Ryuji if I had chosen differently.
It would have been nice to see party members hanging out together of their own volition while you were doing your own thing, perhaps bumping into them off the cuff while traversing Tokyo.
Question about Eternal Punishment (playthrough in progress), relevant to the topic:
Does Baofu always get paired with Ulala and Katsuya with Maya in the events?
Curious because at one point I had to choose between Katsuya and Baofu and was wondering if they keep pushing Katsuya at me because I chose him, or if that is just the way it goes?
I do think it'd be cool if other party members developed their relationships - and not necessarily just romantically - outside of the scope of the MC. I romanced Ann, but from what I've heard regarding the late-game, it'd have been interesting to see something develop between her and Ryuji if I had chosen differently
Hmmm thanks for the replies. The reason I brought it up is that if it is branching, that could be something to consider with respect to pairing up non-MC people while still giving you a romance option. Just not sure it even is branching or not.
It would be pretty complicated though, and Atlus already doesn't rewrite main scenes to incorporate your dynamic with characters established in s links.
Also the flags would be awkward. Sometimes a romantic narrative is better when it is thwarted early on.
Question about Eternal Punishment (playthrough in progress), relevant to the topic:
Does Baofu always get paired with Ulala and Katsuya with Maya in the events?
Curious because at one point I had to choose between Katsuya and Baofu and was wondering if they keep pushing Katsuya at me because I chose him, or if that is just the way it goes?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the way Atlus does this it is going to be either full harem or the character is not-romance-able.
With respect to narrative, the games would benefit from giving you things like Ulala/Baofu or Junpei/Chidori. It would also benefit from tightening the main character's love lines to actual love triangles and what not.
But...that would be at the cost of choice and the dating simulation in some respects. You'd get narratively heavier romances but be only able to choose, say, Makoto or Futaba (or perhaps Haru as an outside choice), which would displease a lot of people in this thread, for whom there is either something off about those romances or they just aren't interested in them or they are interested in, say, Ann who in this hypothetical is paired with Ryuji.
It would be better for people who do want the more central romances, worse for people who don't, with respect to the dating game.
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And it is easy to fall on the bad side of that. They could've done, say, a Ryuji/Makoto thing and I'd be very jealous of that. It is not like smart, competent girl and dumb, fuck-up guy isn't a thing. I'm forgetting the title of the anime but I remember one about an orchestra where the Makoto there hate/love fucked the dumb guy and he was just sort of like "I'm loving this, but why is it happening?!"
But idk. Unless it crosses my types very strongly, I can usually get in line, especially if the narrative is actually good and I do think it would elevate the games with respect to story.
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Or to put my point with a P4 example...narratively Chie is very much like Ann. She also has an established dynamic with Yosuke. It wouldn't have pissed me personally if they got together, but...I'm pretty sure Chie is a popular waifu.
Don't know if it's the right place to ask, but it's November 28th in game, I have nothing to do but wait, and Hifumi is at 5 stars. Do I have enough time left to max the confidant?
Don't know if it's the right place to ask, but it's November 28th in game, I have nothing to do but wait, and Hifumi is at 5 stars. Do I have enough time left to max the confidant?
Hmmm...I think in Palace one Ryuji is a bit unhinged about Ann in a way that could suggest frustrated crush and then the color of her scenes there on out is not very different between you and Ryuji.
Ryuji also brings up Ann as a girl explicitly. He then says he is into body foremost when body is the choice to date Ann in Hawaii (when Ann asks him what he wants in girls). Also, however much you and Yusuke ogle Ann in the anime shorts, Ryuji does it more intensely.
Ann is less easily read that way, imo. But she also is one of the girls least obviously into the MC. The next two girls join you, seek you in particular out and come around to the phantom thieves by stalking you in particular. They are set up as suitors with a particular interest in you. Ann isn't. And in the first two acts she is played off of Ryuji and Yusuke in a ship-teasing way more than she is played off the MC. (And Morgana).
If there is a non-MC involved couple in the cast, it'd most obviously be Ann/Ryuji, imo.
The other popular one on here, Futaba/Yusuke, is really undermined by how Futaba is much more obvious and clear in her lust for the MC. (And again, Yusuke shows the most interest in Ann among the girls. He's seduced by her acting in act 2, for example. And his monologue to himself makes it explicit he is struggling to be interested in her purely as an artist).
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Generally speaking, the thing with Ann is that it seems to me you need to read the boy's feelings into her to get a romance off the ground because I don't really get much in the way of romantic vibes from her. (Hence why I'm looking for someone who dated Ann and got that romance to post their thinking on how it works).
Hmmm...I think in Palace one Ryuji is a bit unhinged about Ann in a way that could suggest frustrated crush and then the color of her scenes there on out is not very different between you and Ryuji.
Ryuji also brings up Ann as a girl explicitly. He then says he is into body foremost when body is the choice to date Ann in Hawaii (when Ann asks him what he wants in girls). Also, however much you and Yusuke ogle Ann in the anime shorts, Ryuji does it more intensely.
Ann is less easily read that way, imo. But she also is one of the girls least obviously into the MC. The next two girls join you, seek you in particular out and come around to the phantom thieves by stalking you in particular. They are set up as suitors with a particular interest in you. Ann isn't. And in the first two acts she is played off of Ryuji and Yusuke in a ship-teasing way more than she is played off the MC. (And Morgana).
If there is a non-MC involved couple in the cast, it'd most obviously be Ann/Ryuji, imo.
The other popular one on here, Futaba/Yusuke, is really undermined by how Futaba is much more obvious and clear in her lust for the MC. (And again, Yusuke shows the most interest in Ann among the girls. He's seduced by her acting in act 2, for example. And his monologue to himself makes it explicit he is struggling to be interested in her purely as an artist).
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Generally speaking, the thing with Ann is that it seems to me you need to read the boy's feelings into her to get a romance off the ground because I don't really get much in the way of romantic vibes from her. (Hence why I'm looking for someone who dated Ann and got that romance to post their thinking on how it works).
When thinking about Anne/Ryuji just remember this, spoilers if you haven't seen this valentine's event yet.
Ryuji has so little charm even MISHIMA has more game than him. Let that sink in for a moment. The game actually takes the time to point out that even Mishima can get a date for Valentines while Ryuji has nothing. Truly he is the man with zero charm.
Yeah. I do think you have to do a mental leap to do it. Which, I think, falls out of the stuff I said about Ann.
Thing is, I think you need to do a similar leap for Ann/MC. Or Ann anyone.
There is a lot of lust directed at Ann that may or may not be read as more than that, and the narrative puts her through canned romantic situations with all the guys but...I never really get the sense she is more than friends with any of them.
So it is in that vacuum that I think Ryuji's hints that he may like her have some room to move.
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Also I think any non-MC pairing is a leap because all the girls are written to be open to the MC (The thing with Ann is I feel you need to take that more on premise than evidence than you do with the other girls), except Sae.
I just think Ryuji/Ann is the least of a leap. Followed by Yusuke/Ann.
In other words, in a world where you are looking for a non-MC couple...Ann/Ryuji makes the most sense, in a world where none of those make too much sense.
Edit: And it definitely makes more sense than Yusuke/Futaba, which, again, makes as much sense as Makoto/Ryuji, i.e. not much.
When thinking about Anne/Ryuji just remember this, spoilers if you haven't seen this valentine's event yet.
Ryuji has so little charm even MISHIMA has more game than him. Let that sink in for a moment. The game actually takes the time to point out that even Mishima can get a date for Valentines while Ryuji has nothing. Truly he is the man with zero charm.
Glad Ann calls you a dick lol. Watched the golden one online and man, all of those girls had internalized your bullshit so much it was heartbreaking. I just wanted one of them to tear into you instead of turning it back on themselves.
Generally speaking, the thing with Ann is that it seems to me you need to read the boy's feelings into her to get a romance off the ground because I don't really get much in the way of romantic vibes from her. (Hence why I'm looking for someone who dated Ann and got that romance to post their thinking on how it works).
I did the Ann romance and it makes sense to me, I said this in an earlier post. Ann having feelings for him works because of how Ann herself acts. She has been telling Shiho about Joker during her hospital visits, prompting the "you were right Ann, he really is reliable" when Joker helps Shiho onto the roof. Note that "you're so reliable" is one of those coded anime things when girls are interested. Joker also is clearly interested in Ann, from checking her out a few times to straight up being able to tell Ryuji that he thinks she's breathtaking.
Ann also tells you if you romance her that she never saw herself dating and told Shiho she thought it was kinda cheesy. So her holding her feelings close to the chest makes sense. However, she just blurts it out without even meaning to when he comforts her during the rank 9 event. Then Joker teases her about it and presses, and because Ann isn't the type to back down at that point she doubles down and confirms her feelings. Joker hugs her and she's panicked because again, she thought it was goofy to be all "coupley".
Once you actually do start dating Ann you realize that she gets flustered by Joker's swag and smoothness (which is understandable because Joker is swag as hell). She wants to be the one to make him nervous during their alone time and it's adorable (it also never works because again, Joker is the king of swag). It's clear as day how she feels about him now and their relationship is actually really sweet. You see through the dates with her that she's actually thinking about a long-term future with him. She tells Joker that she used to think it was cheesy but now she likes it, because she likes being with him.
Ann is also one of the few characters who actually says the words "I love you" (which is weird to me that the others don't) complete with a voiced line. Joker also tells Ann outright he loves her as well. So yeah, I like the Joker/Ann relationship a lot.
I did the Ann romance and it makes sense to me, I said this in an earlier post. Ann having feelings for him works because of how Ann herself acts. She has been telling Shiho about Joker during her hospital visits, prompting the "you were right Ann, he really is reliable" when Joker helps Shiho onto the roof. Note that "you're so reliable" is one of those coded anime things when girls are interested. Joker also is clearly interested in Ann, from checking her out a few times to straight up being able to tell Ryuji that he thinks she's breathtaking.
Ann also tells you if you romance her that she never saw herself dating and told Shiho she thought it was kinda cheesy. So her holding her feelings close to the chest makes sense. However, she just blurts it out without even meaning to when he comforts her during the rank 9 event. Then Joker teases her about it and presses, and because Ann isn't the type to back down at that point she doubles down and confirms her feelings. Joker hugs her and she's panicked because again, she thought it was goofy to be all "coupley".
Once you actually do start dating Ann you realize that she gets flustered by Joker's swag and smoothness (which is understandable because Joker is swag as hell). She wants to be the one to make him nervous during their alone time and it's adorable (it also never works because again, Joker is the king of swag). It's clear as day how she feels about him now and their relationship is actually really sweet. You see through the dates with her that she's actually thinking about a long-term future with him. She tells Joker that she used to think it was cheesy but now she likes it, because she likes being with him.
Ann is also one of the few characters who actually says the words "I love you" (which is weird to me that the others don't) complete with a voiced line. Joker also tells Ann outright he loves her as well. So yeah, I like the Joker/Ann relationship a lot.
I've been writing a lot about Makoto's love myself as she comes across as unromantic to some, so I get being in that position, and I mean it when I say I'm curious.
The dates seem to serve a very similar purpose as the Makoto dates.
I did the Ann romance and it makes sense to me, I said this in an earlier post. Ann having feelings for him works because of how Ann herself acts. She has been telling Shiho about Joker during her hospital visits, prompting the "you were right Ann, he really is reliable" when Joker helps Shiho onto the roof. Note that "you're so reliable" is one of those coded anime things when girls are interested. Joker also is clearly interested in Ann, from checking her out a few times to straight up being able to tell Ryuji that he thinks she's breathtaking.
Ann also tells you if you romance her that she never saw herself dating and told Shiho she thought it was kinda cheesy. So her holding her feelings close to the chest makes sense. However, she just blurts it out without even meaning to when he comforts her during the rank 9 event. Then Joker teases her about it and presses, and because Ann isn't the type to back down at that point she doubles down and confirms her feelings. Joker hugs her and she's panicked because again, she thought it was goofy to be all "coupley".
Once you actually do start dating Ann you realize that she gets flustered by Joker's swag and smoothness (which is understandable because Joker is swag as hell). She wants to be the one to make him nervous during their alone time and it's adorable (it also never works because again, Joker is the king of swag). It's clear as day how she feels about him now and their relationship is actually really sweet. You see through the dates with her that she's actually thinking about a long-term future with him. She tells Joker that she used to think it was cheesy but now she likes it, because she likes being with him.
Ann is also one of the few characters who actually says the words "I love you" (which is weird to me that the others don't) complete with a voiced line. Joker also tells Ann outright he loves her as well. So yeah, I like the Joker/Ann relationship a lot.
This is a great post and pretty much sums up why I went with Ann. I just had the beach scene where Joker/Ann say they love each other and I thought it was great.
If I could have picked someone else...man would have been a hard choice. I'm at 09/18 and honestly I could've picked Makoto, Tae, Kawakami, Chihaya, Hifumi,...there are way too many fucking choices man...
I should have created an alternate save file to see what the romance route was for Kawakami and Tae though.
Glad Ann calls you a dick lol. Watched the golden one online and man, all of those girls had internalized your bullshit so much it was heartbreaking. I just wanted one of them to tear into you instead of turning it back on themselves.
LOL kinda sad though, I gravitated towards her earlier on the game, but once her back story unfolds, it went south quickly. Makoto all the way for me. For some reason, in this playthrough I went all business-like with Tae Takemi, when I prefer her the most compared to the rest of the girls.
Maxed out all Confidants except Iwai's Hanged Man at Level 9. Ran out of time towards the end. Have to start a third playthrough now to complete it. Which I don't mind since I love the story so much.
Also, pretty much got the Persona lineup I wanted:
Satanael
for that coolest looking Persona and that awesome
One-Shot Kill
,
Alice
and
Yoshitsune
for their
Die for Me!
and
Hassou Tobi
skills to clear trash mobs, plus I've set up my
Yoshitsune
to Drain attack and spells into HP and Repel Curse, so he's practically invincible. Compendium stands at 99%, because I failed to max out Hanged Man Arcana, and couldn't fuse the
Attis
persona before the 12/22.
Also ran out of time to itemize Personas into ultimate weapons for the team, as well as fusing them with items from
Shady Tanaka
.
Pardon if there's too much spoilers, not sure what's the policy here with regards to P5 at this stage of its release. Either I've been playing nonstop or too fast (245 hours and counting), or others take their time and didn't like seeing posts about them. Got reported in a local forum for that, even though the game has been out for more than a month by now.
I don't see how it's a leap that Ann/Ryuji could be a thing.
Ryuji has known her from middle school, comment about her from time to time and seems to open up to her on the Hawaii trip a bit.
For me, I think the major thing was (spoilers ahead for main game):
The end of Palace 7. Maybe it was just the direction unintentionally doing so but Ryuji looks directly at Ann while hanging from the release switch. Ann's reaction to him being "dead" also seems to tease it.
I think one of the flaws of this game (which may not have been present in the previous Persona games, not sure) is that other pairings don't happen. People talk about Ryuji and Yusuke being far too strange or not charming to have relationships and I boil that down to the poor writing on their characters. It's like they had to be completely "nerfed" so that MC is the only viable relationship route for any of the women.
I feel P5 should have adopted something where if you choose not to go after Ann, a side path for her and Ryuji to hook up should have opened. (Spoilers again): It would have made that scene at
the end of chapter 7 have more impact. It's even worse in that if you consider that if Ryuji was supposed to have any sort of a character moment, that should have been it. It would be his sort of redemption scene of literally saving everyone's life and almost dying in the process when everyone thought he was a dumb joke.
Instead it's played off for comedy purposes and Ryuji ends up a loser again.
As I said above, the only time I got romance vibes from Ann was when I rejected her. At that time I did feel like I broke her heart and I thought it would be a fairly gentle let-down since she didn't even press the issue.
Her immediate reaction was not very telling but then she runs away and I'm left thinking "what does this mean?"
For me she was the girl who was my friend and who I was shocked to find out liked me and I didn't really see where it was coming from.
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It is weird because unlike, say, modern FE the girls actually have love lines, but just like modern FE the game sets out to give you as little pain as possible in rejecting them. And so you sort of get to this point with some of the girls, where their feelings are obvious seen from a certain vantage and reconfirmed by the dates but...you can kind of miss them entirely if the girl doesn't connect to you in a certain way.
There are more obvious girls, in this respect. Namely, Futaba and Haru. With Futaba, rejecting her is strangely gentle. She accepts that what she describes to you as physical lust and mental obsession is just friendship. Haru comes across as more dismayed.
But Makoto and Ann very much seem to have this problem where if you miss the boat on their character, they don't seem to be in love with you.
I think Makoto is better serviced by the main narrative, from the way she joins you to her interactions with you to the canned rom-com moments you share with her. (In fact, I think she is the best serviced by the main narrative).
Ann sort of opens as "the girl" for you but becomes "the girl" for everyone throughout the main narrative.
I don't see how it's a leap that Ann/Ryuji could be a thing.
Ryuji has known her from middle school, comment about her from time to time and seems to open up to her on the Hawaii trip a bit.
For me, I think the major thing was (spoilers ahead for main game):
The end of Palace 7. Maybe it was just the direction unintentionally doing so but Ryuji looks directly at Ann while hanging from the release switch. Ann's reaction to him being "dead" also seems to tease it.
I think one of the flaws of this game (which may not have been present in the previous Persona games, not sure) is that other pairings don't happen. People talk about Ryuji and Yusuke being far too strange or not charming to have relationships and I boil that down to the poor writing on their characters. It's like they had to be completely "nerfed" so that MC is the only viable relationship route for any of the women.
I feel P5 should have adopted something where if you choose not to go after Ann, a side path for her and Ryuji to hook up should have opened. (Spoilers again): It would have made that scene at
the end of chapter 7 have more impact. It's even worse in that if you consider that if Ryuji was supposed to have any sort of a character moment, that should have been it. It would be his sort of redemption scene of literally saving everyone's life and almost dying in the process when everyone thought he was a dumb joke.
Instead it's played off for comedy purposes and Ryuji ends up a loser again.
I think it would have fit. It fits Ryuji much better than Ann though. But I don't think in the main narrative Ann fits you better than Ryuji. It is just knowing the premise of the harem game and the fact that there is a s link romance with Ann that undermines it.
Again, I think it makes the most sense of any non-MC couple. It is the least of a leap.
I also agree that it is a flaw that Ryuji and Yusuke don't have relationships or potential. I just think it is a flaw that is going to leave some people in the audience unhappy if Atlus solves in a low-cost way.
Morgana actually peaces out every time you're out with Ann (to BS why he wouldn't know you're with her I guess). Only during the Valentine's Day event is it clear that he knows and he just sighs and leaves when it's Joker/Ann alone time.
Morgana actually peaces out every time you're out with Ann (to BS why he wouldn't know you're with her I guess). Only during the Valentine's Day event is it clear that he knows and he just sighs and leaves when it's Joker/Ann alone time.
On my third play through with the intent to romance Kawakami, and I romance Makoto again. Wouldn't be so bad had I not saved over my progress. Dunno why I did that.
I'm actually kinda impressed with the way it makes you feel bad without explicitly doing much.
Watching the Christmas and Valentine's scenes is interesting. Despite generally following a fairly predictable structure (maybe skipping a bit here and there) they manage to make them feel different in intesting ways (topic of conversation, how they react to various kinds of responses etc.
Morgana is interesting too, he snickers at Futaba and Haru, gets depressed about Ann but doesn't snicker at Makato and doesn't seem to comment on the others (who couldn't understand him).
Sojiro is mostly the same with exceptions for Futaba and Kawakami.
I'm sorta surprised by no one commenting on how the Valentine's Day with Ryuji event is treated like any other dare by all the girls on 2/15
I'm actually kinda impressed with the way it makes you feel bad without explicitly doing much.
Watching the Christmas and Valentine's scenes is interesting. Despite generally following a fairly predictable structure (maybe skipping a bit here and there) they manage to make them feel different in intesting ways (topic of conversation, how they react to various kinds of responses etc.
Morgana is interesting too, he snickers at Futaba and Haru, gets depressed about Ann but doesn't snicker at Makato and doesn't seem to comment on the others (who couldn't understand him).
Sojiro is mostly the same with exceptions for Futaba and Kawakami.
Oh I'm not saying it doesn't make me feel bad...It really can. I'm just pointing out that they do try and avoid explicitly trying to make you feel bad for the most part.
Going back to my Chie/Yukiko comments above...that is quite the mess to be stepping into as a boy they are both into. I avoid doing so in large part because of that. But...the game isn't going to make it a thing between them.
Or what I said about Ann running away. I took that to mean I broke her heart and I felt quite bad for her. But...that was after a conversation where she never asked me explicitly and handled what I said quite well. She didn't cry in front of me (about that), nor did the camera show her crying by herself.
Instead it is in the the line on the black screen that she ran away that makes me feel like I just broke a really nice girl's heart without ever having realized she was that into me. And that feels like shit.
But...that's me reading a lot into her running away and how much I hurt her, is my point, I guess.
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I'm glad the games do this. If they didn't...there'd be no consequences and it would feel even more like your choice of girl determines their feelings and less like they have feelings their own.
I just wish sometimes things that seem like could come to a head would come to a head is all.
So I don't think I really disagree with you so much, it is just I think sometimes it should be a little less dependent on the player paying attention and having a heart .
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Moreover, sometimes it is a good technique. I mean things feel hunky dory and then a little bit of text can make you stop and think and see things differently.
AN you could buy headphone accessories for all the characters and most of them were variants of AKG cans. MC from P3 also wears ATH branded clip ons.
