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Metroid: Samus Returns (Mercury Steam, Metroid 2 reimagining, 9/15) announced for 3DS

K

KingBroly

Banned
TheDinoman said:
...it just looks like a 2D Metroid done with a 2.5D graphical style.

The melee counter thing is kinda reminsicent of Other M's flashy finisher animations. That one similarity doesn't make it "Other M in 2D".
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The cinema-kills are thrown into this as well

I just finished replaying Fusion. I forgot they locked you outbox of the sectors near the end. Probably my biggest gripe with the game.
Click to expand...

Now that you've beaten it, you can reload and the game opens it up for you...which is really stupid.
 
O

Opa-Pa

Member
Lunar15 said:
Other M has been discussed so much on this board that it's a pretty boring subject now, honestly.
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Tell me about it. I pretty much dread the moment the game gets brought up because it immediately starts some unnecessary tension between fans in every thread, and it's always the same tired arguments that lead to nothing because no one ever changes their stand on it except maybe for people who never played it. It's really tiring.

I mean we have a very promising Metroid game coming in less than three months but it all devolves in Other M discussions either way.

And I know I'm guilty of it too because I can't resist talking about it too when someone else mentions it, it sucks!

BUT ANYWAY, after replaying both Fusion and Zero Mission I'm considering replaying RoS too but I wonder if it's better to not remember map layouts and whatnot... Then again revisiting it may help me appreciate it even more. Normally I'd just play Super but I replayed it like a year ago.

Maybe I should finish my Prime 3 playthrogh... It's the only Metroid game sans Pinball I've never finished.
 
TheMoon

TheMoon

Member
RemyL said:
Sorry if it has been asked before but will I need a NEW 3ds to play this or will my regular 3ds xl work?
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They'd have clearly labeled it that way if you did. You can also tell by the box art being completely different and clearly stating it's for NEW NINTENDO 3DS ONLY. Which it isn't so ... everyone can play.. :)
 
S

Schopenhauerian

Member
Klappdrachen said:
I don't really believe that, considering he borrowed quite a lot of design elements from the Prime games when he made ZM and now again with Samus Returns.
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TheDinoman said:
No, it's because Metroid is internally considered to be two different series. Sakamoto works on the 2D Metroids and Tanabe leads the Prime series. Neither of them work with each other all that much, it seems. Sakamoto's games have always been seen as the "mainline" series while the Prime series is considered a "side story".
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Some additional info was collected into a post by Mak, in another thread:
Mak said:
Almost everything Yoshio Sakamoto has said about the Metroid Prime series.

Metroid Prime & Metroid Fusion Staff Interview - Nintendo Online Magazine - March 2003
http://www.metroid-database.com/features/nomsakamoto.php
Sakamoto-san, you supervised Metroid Prime and were in charge of directing Metroid Fusion. Prime was the series' first first-person perspective game, but...

Sakamoto: When I heard of the project, I was also bewildered. Because Samus is a relatively popular character, I didn't think it would be a good idea for her to come out in this form. But they showed it to me partway through development, and they had the Morph Ball, and the shape of Samus appeared to feel good. It had a cool world, and I thought it would do well. I think they finished it nicely.

About where in the timeline is Prime set?

Sakamoto: The story takes place between the first one on the Famicom Disk System and is followed by Metroid II. I had the idea to make it separately as a gaiden [side story], but wouldn't it be a cop-out to call it a gaiden? Because of that, I consulted with Tanabe, and things fell into place very naturally. The local staff worked on it really hard, it serves as part of the series, and I think they completed it very well.​

Metroid designer Yoshio Sakamoto speaks! - CVG - 2003
http://web.archive.org/web/20121025...sive-metroid-designer-yoshio-sakamoto-speaks/
Sakamoto: I think my involvement with Metroid Prime II is like my involvement with the first one - I am advising them as to what kind of flavour they have to adhere to, and the kind of storylines possible - Retro Studios comse up with the story and I say: "Yes, it's the kind of story that's consistent with previous Metroid games" or else: "No, it's got to be changed like this".

Of course, whenever Retro is working on the Metroid games I need to supervise; I'm the person who receives the reports, to find out what's going on and how the title is progressing.​

E3 2009: METROID: OTHER M HEAVY ON ACTION AND STORY - IGN - 2009
http://www.ign.com/articles/2009/06/04/e3-2009-metroid-other-m-heavy-on-action-and-story?page=1
Yoshio Sakamoto: One thing I need to explain is that I was really not that involved directly in the development of the Metroid Prime series. What I was involved in was the development of the initial NES Metroid, the GBA Metroid, Super Metroid and then finally Metroid Fusion. And within that timeline, the Other M story will take place between Super Metroid and the Fusion stories.​

The Elegance of Metroid: Yoshio Sakamoto Speaks - Gamasutra - April 2010
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132721/the_elegance_of_metroid_yoshio_.php
Now, the Prime series was made by Retro, of course, and, being a different developer, they had a very different worldview for this game. You can say it's still the same Metroid, but it's a different, original concept. There isn't necessarily a direct connection between those initial concepts.​

Metroid: Other M - Yoshio Sakamoto Interview - Gamespot - Sept 2010
http://www.gamespot.com/videos/metroid-other-m-yoshio-sakamoto-interview/2300-6276545/
Sakamoto: Metroid changing developers happens to be very natural to me. For example, as far as the Prime series by Retro Studios is concerned this [The Metroid Prime series] is actually another Metroid series. And I have had minimal involvement in the process of its development.​

Q&A: Yoshio Sakamoto, Yousuke Hayashi on Metroid: Other M - Wired - June 2009
http://www.wired.com/2009/06/metroid-interview/
Sakamoto: You might be aware of this, but I actually wasn't that involved in the development of the Prime series. The goal in creating Metroid Prime was to create the ultimate first-person adventure, and I do think that Retro was able to do that. My approach, my concept, is a little bit different in terms of gameplay. And the story I want to tell with Other M can't be achieved with that approach. So I think my take on this project is quite a bit different than Retro's.

Wired.com: So, then, what is your vision of the ultimate Metroid game?

Sakamoto: Within the greater Metroid series, the Other M story will tie together the stories that took place in Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion. One of my goals is to present Samus as an appealing human character, and that involves explaining a little bit about what happened in her past as well as the characters that influenced her. The story will play a big part.​

Interview: Metroid: Other M producer Yoshio Sakamoto - Joystiq - March 2010
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/12/interview-metroid-other-m-producer-yoshio-sakamoto/
Q: Retro obviously produced the Metroid Prime series; very successful, very influential. Do you consider this a reboot of the series after Metroid Prime? Is this the direction for future Metroids or just another direction?

Sakamoto: The games that I've been involved with in the Metroid series have been on the NES, GameBoy, Super NES and the GBA. I actually didn't have a lot of input on the Prime series. But when they're doing with Other M here, it's not so much a different universe, it's just a different part of the story. You can't say that there's no relation here; it's probably best to think of them as being in parallel in this world.

Q: What, if anything, has the team learned from Prime?

Sakamoto: I've been working on 2D Metroid games all the way up until now, so when we had a chance to see the Prime games, which suddenly take the series to the 3D space, we realized people found it to have a really good visual impact, and they really did want that kind of enhanced visual experience. And so, I have to say I'm certainly influenced by people's desires in that direction. There are some points in Other M that are going to feel a bit like the Prime series in terms of the visual experience they offer. But what we're really trying to do is bring the ease of play you found in the 2D series forward. But certainly Prime was a very cool series and we've taken some notes there. ​
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K

KingBroly

Banned
Golnei said:
It may resemble it, but Other M's basic movement separated from the bizarre contortions imposed by its strange position between 2D and 3D design and restrictive control scheme doesn't seem like the worst thing that can be taken from it. Its ideas might work better as avenues to expand standard 2D Metroid gameplay rather than being the foundation of a 3D hybrid combat system.
Click to expand...

TheDinoman said:
...it just looks like a 2D Metroid done with a 2.5D graphical style.

The melee counter thing is kinda reminsicent of Other M's flashy finisher animations. That one similarity doesn't make it "Other M in 2D".
Click to expand...

Mihael Mello Keehl said:
Who gives a damn? Other M had some cool stuff and good gameplay occasionally. Samus is cool too let her be cool here.
Click to expand...

My point is that we might not be seeing all that there is to see here. More "Other M," aka the horrendous parts, may lurk underneath.
 
R

RadarScope1

Member
I'm replaying Metroid 2. It's as I remember from 25 years ago - pretty solid but not exactly Metroid. I suppose it's not all that far off from what Metroid was when it was only the original game and this was the first-ever sequel in what would eventually become a franchise IP. But it's pretty far afield from what the series would become. I think they did a great job with the structure of the game - you can get lost but never bewildered. I have taken to using an online map at times but I'm not using it as a guide. One thing I really like about the structure is they way they evoked a sense of huge temples or buildings inside of underground caverns. You can really see it when you look at a map.
 
W

WonderzL

Banned
RadarScope1 said:
I'm replaying Metroid 2. It's as I remember from 25 years ago - pretty solid but not exactly Metroid. I suppose it's not all that far off from what Metroid was when it was only the original game and this was the first-ever sequel in what would eventually become a franchise IP. But it's pretty far afield from what the series would become. I think they did a great job with the structure of the game - you can get lost but never bewildered. I have taken to using an online map at times but I'm not using it as a guide. One thing I really like about the structure is they way they evoked a sense of huge temples or buildings inside of underground caverns. You can really see it when you look at a map.
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The only problem I have with the original is that almost all of the rooms are super similar to each other, so I would get lost all the time
 
I

Im_So_Pringles

Member
My head canon about Samus losing her abilities is that she stores the various incarnations of Chozo technology in her ship at the end of each mission for safe-keeping and research. As for why she doesn't recreate or re-equip them for subsequent missions..... *shrug*

Haven't quite figured that part out yet. Maybe she is confident in her abilities with the base un-upgraded suit?
 
M

MoonFrog

Member
So I get back to my ship after Ridley with 1499 energy, 400 reserve, 225 missiles, 50 super missiles, 50 power bombs...:( One missile pack off from 100%.

Wonder which one I missed.

I'll just look at a map. A bit bummed I didn't remember them all this time around, but I'm not going to spend too much time searching by myself. Done that before anyway.

EDIT: And there, looking at the map it was immediately apparent to me I'd missed one in the ship, confirmed by going back there. 230 missiles :).
 
G

Garlador

Member
Schopenhauerian said:
Some additional info was collected into a post by Mak, in another thread:
Click to expand...

Don't forget this one, from Retro's perspective.
“Through discussions with Retro,” he says, “we came up with the keyword ‘elegant’. She’s beautifully elegant, but also powerful.” Tanabe demonstrates what he means by suddenly grabbing his translator by the collar, pantomiming a hand-gun to the translator’s head. One of the scenarios they ran through with Metroid co-creator Sakamoto, he explains, is how Samus would react to a Space Pirate taking someone hostage.

“What we heard from him is that she wouldn’t yell ‘hold on!’ She wouldn’t show any emotion at all, she’d just bring up her gun and hit the pirate with a head shot.” Tanabe loosens his grip on the surprisingly unfazed translator and brings his fingers in one slow sweep up to his own head.
With a verbal ‘bajoooom‘, he fires dead-eye, leaning back in slow motion, his hands showing us the arc and splatter of Space Pirate viscera spilling from the cap of his skull. “She’s very calm, very professional in killing,” he explains. “She doesn’t show any emotions on the surface, but she’s very passionate inside.”
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I hope Sakamoto goes back to that...
 
S

Schopenhauerian

Member
Garlador said:
Don't forget this one, from Retro's perspective.


I hope Sakamoto goes back to that...
Click to expand...

Thanks for that link! Certainly very interesting.

Also, just to clarify (after just now looking at some of the interpretations of Mak's post, in that other thread): I shared that section of Mak's post solely to address the claims that were being made about what Sakamoto thinks of the Metroid Prime series.

I did not intend to offer any support for Sakamoto's characterization of Samus in Other M, a characterization which I strongly dislike (as I've mentioned elsewhere, in another context: one / two / three).
 
TheMoon

TheMoon

Member
This clearly proved that Sakamoto just hates Retro's guts and wants to invent a time machine to erase the Prime series from existence.

He truly is The Devil(tm).
 
O

Opa-Pa

Member
Not to be rude but I don't think any of those quotes reveal much, they all basically amouny to just "Yeah so Retro make the Prime games, and they're clearly very cool. I make the other Metroid games and they're both different series but not really, but yeah, kinda, I don't know?" which is more or less what you'd expect from someone in his position.

I'm not sure if he hates Retro and their games or not, but even if he did, do you really think he would flat out say “Yeah I wish those filthy americans would stop messing with my series already, yikes!!"? That's not how it works.

I think fans' concern comes from the comment that he considers both series to be their own thing, which is weird because technically there's no reason they can't coexist within the same continuity. And well, it is odd that one of Samus' first comments after meeting with the Federation in Other M is "This is the first time I've worked directly with the Federation since I became a bounty hunter" considering the last Metroid game to come out before it was Prime 3 of all things, you can interpret that as you will.

I think ultimately all things Samus' characterization and Metroid canon are hard to determine because there's technically no "creator of Metroid", there's no Miyamoto to the series (some consider Yokoi to be that man, but yeah), so you can either believe Sakamoto, who's been heavily involved with the series since day 1 and has more or less been the driving force behind Metroid games being made a la Inafune, or you can just believe whatever comes from the Prime series.

ScientificPizza said:
I don't think there is any reason to fear that at all
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I think technically it's a valid concern to have because Other M also looked like a blast before it came out and this game seems to evoke a similar feeling with its more action oriented gameplay. I personally don't worry at all but yeah.

This makes me curious, was Other M ever available to be demoed by the press before its release? I personally don't remember.
 
A

AmayaPapaya

Banned
Actually it's this quote that I think is really interesting (not related to Other M though).
It’s the third game, Corruption, that brought about the most internal debate. Originally, says Wikan, Prime 3 was meant to fully explore the idea of Samus as bounty hunter — to let her freely explore the galaxy around her, to take on sandbox-like missions, to put you in full control of her ship itself and find yourself on multiple planets.
That was something Retro “invested a fairly significant amount of time in”, he says, despite internal concerns that it detracted from that other essential Metroid-ism of Samus’s essential alone-ness. Ultimately, it was Tanabe that finally decided it “just wasn’t going to tie the game together,” that it was “a neat trick but not something that’s going to do we want it to do,” instead directing that the game be brought down to a more personal level with Samus’s “hyper-mode”.
samushyper.jpg
The hyper-mode system would explore, as with Echoes before it, the idea of Samus’s light/dark struggle and potential for inner-evil. It’s a system that boosts her abilities, but leaves her vulnerable to becoming a ‘dark Samus’ herself, if not outright dying.
Just how that idea would work caused a decent amount of tension between the two companies and specific designers within. Tanabe, especially, held firm that there were quite enough first-person games that exist solely to “make you feel strong,” and that Nintendo wanted to do something different.
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It appears Tenabe was the moderating influence in Prime 3. The game Retro wanted to make was far more western and like a shooter you would see in 2007. Prime 4 is in great hands! At least with Tenabe at the helm, contrary to what some fans are saying.
 
S

Schopenhauerian

Member
Opa-Pa said:
Not to be rude but I don't think any of those quotes reveal much...
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I see. Then we may actually be in agreement: folks earlier in the thread (not you) made some very strong claims about Sakamoto's hatred for the Prime series, but based on what I've seen posted so far, the evidence does not actually reveal any such hatred for the Prime series.

So I would agree, not very revealing, in that regard, despite the large volume of quotes assembled by Mak.

Perhaps there's other available evidence? I am open to the possibility.
Opa-Pa said:
...they all basically amouny to just "Yeah so Retro make the Prime games, and they're clearly very cool..."

...I think fans' concern comes from the comment that he considers both series to be their own thing...
Click to expand...

It did indeed strike me, personally, that Sakamoto made the comment (about the Prime games being cool) multiple times, from March 2003 to March 2010, but I have no problem acknowledging that for you, other parts of his statements were more significant/problematic/revealing. That's perfectly understandable.

And while I strongly dislike the characterization of Samus in Other M, and much prefer (for example) the characterization posted by Garlador, I am personally (in contrast to my strong dislike of Other M) not much interested/bothered by/invested in Sakamoto's views about whether the Prime series is 'separate' or 'parallel', though I acknowledge that other fans can have perfectly good reasons to object.
 
O

Opa-Pa

Member
Yeah pretty much, I think it's hard to really know what he thinks of Retro or their involvement in the series. I think comments about him /hating them/ are exaggerations, honestly.

If anything I think he's not concerned with making sure his games are consistent with what's been established by the Prime games, but that's about it. Who knows, really.
 
Astral Dog

Astral Dog

Member
KingBroly said:
I dunno...gameplay wise, this is looking a lot like Other M in 2D...except the whole analog movement thing while stationary (which is ultimately like first person aiming in Other M, if you think about it).
Click to expand...
That isn't neccessarily bad as long as the map is strong and they already said MS is behind the gameplay changes
 
T

Toxi

Banned
KingBroly said:
I dunno...gameplay wise, this is looking a lot like Other M in 2D...except the whole analog movement thing while stationary (which is ultimately like first person aiming in Other M, if you think about it).
Click to expand...
Intentionally including an infinite bomb jump shortcut is like the opposite of Other M's design ethos.

Samus Returns really doesn't resemble Other M outside the counter melee kinda resembling the sense move and cinematic takedowns for bosses.
 
N

Neoleo2143

Member
Toxi said:
I still can't believe this is coming out in September.
Click to expand...

I can't believe it's coming out so early and seems to represent the series' most fun elements (infinite bomb jumping and thus sequence breaking, rad bosses, tight as hell controls) while pushing it forward (Free aim system and Aeion Abilities). It looks like exactly the cure for the ails of Metroid fans which makes it feel almost surreal. After years of nothing, BAM and they're doing and saying all the right things.
 
S

Shiggy

Member
Already posted? European boxart (vs. Game Boy boxart vs. US boxart):

ctr_metroidsamusretur2kufc.png
gjun0.jpg
boxart_4996.jpg
Click to expand...
 
GeekyDad

GeekyDad

Member
It could just be like a starving man in a desert who hasn't had anything to eat or drink in days, but I'm looking forward to this more than...well, anything else gaming-wise right now. It's been so long...2D-fucking Metroid, man.
 
R

Raitaro

Member
GeekyDad said:
It could just be like a starving man in a desert who hasn't had anything to eat or drink in days, but I'm looking forward to this more than...well, anything else gaming-wise right now. It's been so long...2D-fucking Metroid, man.
Click to expand...

I'm also looking forward to it even though I barely touch my 3DS anymore.

I was also just thinking that if this game turns out well, maybe Nintendo plans on hiring Mercury Steam again for similar 2.5D remakes of older, lesser known or more divisive games. Maybe they could even become one of Nintendo's go to external studios for such projects since they already have a (mixed quality) pedigree with regards to working with classic IP. (I actually think that Mirror of Fate was good game that blended classic gameplay with more modern storytelling and character switching that was narratively meaningful, even though the game seems to be universally panned nowadays even by the same press people that at one point collectively gave it a 72 metacritic score.)

Personally, I'd really welcome a Kid Icarus (NES or GB) remake or Zelda II: Adventure of Link remake from them as well if Metroid ends up being satisfying. Both of those games seem to be largely forgotten in terms of sequels that play similarly and they still have their unique qualities, atmosphere and fans so a Metroid: Samus Returns style remake for both could be a cool way to bring them back in a more modern way that reminds us of said qualities.
 
GeekyDad

GeekyDad

Member
JP box art looks like a mix of the other two, the bright colors of the EU box and the lower logo of the US box. Love the colors of the EU box, but I think ultimately the US box is cooler, more sleek looking.
 
L

Lunar15

Member
KingBroly said:
I dunno...gameplay wise, this is looking a lot like Other M in 2D...except the whole analog movement thing while stationary (which is ultimately like first person aiming in Other M, if you think about it).
Click to expand...

I just meant that I'm not worried storywise. Who knows how the game's gonna turn out. The stationary firing mechanic could go either way.
 
U

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
Opa-Pa said:
Yeah pretty much, I think it's hard to really know what he thinks of Retro or their involvement in the series. I think comments about him /hating them/ are exaggerations, honestly.

If anything I think he's not concerned with making sure his games are consistent with what's been established by the Prime games, but that's about it. Who knows, really.
Click to expand...

People are reading way too much into Sakamoto's comments about Prime. He considers them a parallel series in the sense that they have different gameplay hallmarks while still retaining the Metroid essence. Prime means first person view, visor HUD, lock-on etc. The main Metroid games are 2D, side scrolling platformers etc. He's never said that they aren't part of the Metroid family. They are just a distinct part of it.

If Nintendo had announced Metroid 5 instead of Metroid Prime 4, we would all have pictured a different type of game. That illustrates what Sakamoto is talking about. They each approach the Metroid style in different ways. I'm sure Sakamoto is happy that the Prime series kept the Metroid brand going and gave it new life. Without those games Other M would never exist.
 
N

NintendosBooger

Member
Ushojax said:
People are reading way too much into Sakamoto's comments about Prime. He considers them a parallel series in the sense that they have different gameplay hallmarks while still retaining the Metroid essence. Prime means first person view, visor HUD, lock-on etc. The main Metroid games are 2D, side scrolling platformers etc. He's never said that they aren't part of the Metroid family. They are just a distinct part of it.

If Nintendo had announced Metroid 5 instead of Metroid Prime 4, we would all have pictured a different type of game. That illustrates what Sakamoto is talking about. They each approach the Metroid style in different ways. I'm sure Sakamoto is happy that the Prime series kept the Metroid brand going and gave it new life. Without those games Other M would never exist.
Click to expand...

The two series don't simply represent different gameplay elements but also different approaches to the Samus Aran character. Sakamoto prefers her whiny and animated as clearly demonstrated in Other M, while Tanabe - as mentioned in the earlier posts - represents the bounty hunter as a stoic and mysterious force of nature. Sakamoto draws Samus's behavioral template from the silly Manga depictions of her, while Tanabe siphons the brooding and minimalist tone expressed in the more muted 2D games.
 
K

KingBroly

Banned
Lunar15 said:
I just meant that I'm not worried storywise. Who knows how the game's gonna turn out. The stationary firing mechanic could go either way.
Click to expand...

See, that's where I differ, cuz Other M had a lot of 'Metroid 2' riding on it, particularly near the end. So I'm a bit worried there.


I am impressed, however, at how big Mercurysteam made Samus' Shoulder Pads.
 
A

Amalthea

Banned
The odd thing is that the original GB boxes were basically the same format as the steel book so the original Metroid 2 boxart would've made more sense.
 
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