Shouldn't we define first what is use and abuse, though? I know the implications of abuse in every major body system (i study pharmacy), but even then there's this demonization of steroid use while we deem "normal" messing with neurotransmission in the brain (i.e Cannabis), using caffeine as a stimulant (that causes abstinence symptoms and mixed results on a lot of body functions including BP and HR), legally using tobacco (seriously).
A correct "cycle" could be benefitial for some people looking to look better, have more strength and energy, perform better, or even keep better levels of testosterone with all that's implied there (both physical and psychological aspects). I think we need more studies and more education on the topic, tbh. This black and white thing is stupid, specially when we glorify athletes (like olympians) and they are PROBABLY on cycles and use this stuff regularly.
The whole discussion is what abuse and use is. There's a difference why cannabis and alcohol aren't mentioned in the same vein as anabolic steroids. They're recreational narcotics. That makes for a big difference. If you're building a society, it makes sense to allow some kind of safety valve; some kind of unwinding mechanic. It makes sense to regulate what and how. If you're building a society, and you're allowing anabolic steroids, you're allowing a set of values and conceptions about performance.
People will forever glorify athletes. We can't change that. We need to ensure that the work of WADA is effective, so that we can actually rule out abuse of anabolic steroids. The argument that "well, most athletes are using it anyway, so it shouldn't be considered bad" is very weak. It is black and white; it is taking a substance you don't need, for a specific wanted outcome, while ignoring the other risks. Pretending that "perfect use" has no adverse effects isn't good. You're hand waving at the good things about testosterone while ignoring the intricate balance our hormone system is. If your testosterone is low, your doctor will help you. Then you have a medical need, and a good use for the substance. Using it when your levels are within the normal boundaries means that you're not needing more to get the good effects from the hormone, and in fact, more if it will dampen the effectiveness of other hormones in the body. "We need more studies" doesn't make for a good argument on why this type of use of steroids should be considered abuse. Even with all kinds of studies showing how far you can push the use without getting adverse effects, you're still ignoring the effect the use would have on morals and ethics. We don't need more studies to say people shouldn't be juicing.
I need a clarification given the way you've made this paragraph: you'd be okay with banning sugar?
I think sugar is a huge problem. It shows that "it makes you feel better" is the worst of arguments about the usability of a substance.
...are you under the impression that they're stopping at something right now? o_ô
Your stance seems quite similar to the war on drugs
So what? That is not at all making an argument against what I'm saying. If they're stopping at something now? Yes, they are. Drug tests. Various sports have various cultures of abusing steroids. Biking being a pretty big offender, as an example. If steroids were allowed, that venue of optimization would be opened up for pushing all kinds of limits. While steroids today already cause preventable deaths and irrevocable damage, the argument I'm making is that even if "perfect use" was 100% risk free - which it isn't - it still wouldn't make for a good argument to allow, as more people would venture into what has been normalized, only to push their limits too far and cause themselves damage. In locking off such venues, athletes pushing all limits will be contained in the abuse of damaging performance enhancing drugs.
Fair enough. Just as we don't really need alcohol, tobacco or marihuana (the last one is tricky with the medical uses, but usually isn't employed for that.).
Yes, it's part the fact that people started saying "perfect use is without damage and is actually healthy" that is fucked up. Perpetuating such statements, normalizes the abuse of an illicit substance. Trying to morally justify something that is done purely at risk and for nothing but vein gains, as we are discussing people using anabolic steroids when they don't need them, should not be tolerated. Anabolic steroids have risks and side effects. It increases risk of certain cancers, and it can even be mood altering.
They do have benefits outside of aesthetics though. Sex drive, joint pain, overall feelings of well being ect. Certain types can also negatively effect those same things. Its definitely a complex thing that nobody should get into without extensive research just cause you wanna get huge brah!
You're talking about the generic term "steroids". It refers to a chemical structure, and it found as various hormones in our body, as an example. When we're discussing steroids in this thread, it is the colloquialism of "anabolic–androgenic steroids". They cannot be equated to other kinds of steroids, like corticosteroids.
Arguing what though? Not all cases when they are ilicitly obtained will be detrimental to the health of the obtainer. Even when obtained illegally, if used properly, they can have health benefits beyond just having bigger muscles.
First of all, we're talking about the case where anabolic steroids are used to increase work out effectiveness and increase gains. It is a far stretch to assume that someone with medically low testosterone would bypass their doctors instead of getting an actual medical treatment for a medical condition, so I don't get what health benefits you're pointing to. There are no direct health benefits from having bigger gains. The health that comes from working out is much in the actual use of the cardiovascular system, from strengthening various muscle groups, for the effect that has on the body. If someone has a sedimentary life style and a poor diet, and should get healthy, there are no benefits from starting a steroid cycle while working to get healthier. We don't need huge muscles to be healthy. There are no health benefits from using anabolic steroids in the manner we're discussing.
In the cases where there are health benefits, a doctor will find that need, and will prescribe needed medicine.
Its their popularity and the lack of knowledge from the users, abuse and distribution of "bunk gear" thats the problem. Not the substances themselves.
You can still abuse a prescription with most medications.
Prescription drugs are prescription drugs because they require a doctor's knowledge to be correctly used. There's a barrier in place for us not to self-medicate us with serious drugs. It's kind of by definition that a lot of prescription medicine has a lot of adverse effects when used incorrectly, so I don't get what you're hoping to add with that statement.
And I think you're the third person in the last two pages to argue that if everyone just knew how to use it, it would be solely good. It isn't. Don't fool yourself to push your own moral foundation by telling yourself that "correct usage" has no adverse effects. The substance itself is being abused if it is being used to raise one's own gains by increasing the amount of testosterone in the body. It is that abuse that's the problem. You're messing with a very delicate balance of hormones in the body. It is not as easy as "if I just get more of this, the only thing that happens is that my muscles can get bigger". It is a central hormone in even our personalities, and heightening your levels will give you certain risks for certain behaviors and probability of certain diseases, etc.The substance itself used in this manner is not a good thing. It can be abused by people that want to push past certain barriers when it comes to adding muscle, but that's not a health benefit.
