A lot of it is never learning proper diet and exercise form/routine, because the steroids effectively compensate for poor training. If you plan on going off them before reaching 100% max muscle bro-ness, you end up stalling or regressing.
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Controversial Bodybuilder and Youtuber Rich Piana Dies After Medical Emergency
- Thread starter Fox318
- Start date
A lot of it is never learning proper diet and exercise form/routine, because the steroids effectively compensate for poor training. If you plan on going off them before reaching 100% max muscle bro-ness, you end up stalling or regressing.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Alligatorjandro
Banned
It gives you a rush
Not at all.
Not unless you want to ban athletes eating meat!
WTF are those triceps. And that trapezius is Toguro levels of crazy
Ever seen toplevel powerlifters/weightlifters/strongman traps?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BOEh-pRgH69/?taken-by=ericlilliebridge
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
Considered taking once but said fuck it. Ain't worth the side effects.
CornBurrito
Member
Clearly you don't live in Ohio.
Heroin is significantly worse than alcohol. The large majority of people do not become addicted to alcohol. Heroin is significantly more habit forming.
CornBurrito
Member
Clearly the common is also the good.
What keeps compelling you and others to bring up HRT?
Yes there are legitimate medical uses for steroids. "Sick gainzzzz bruh" aren't one of them.
Opioids also have legitimate medical use. I guess casual opioid use is also something I must support?
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Holy fuck @ the picture in the OP. I can't imagine the strain it must put on the heart to be that big.
Yeah, the cocaine probably didn't help.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Jesus Christ i almost spit my food out.
He's probably bringing it up because literally anyone can get it prescribed to them if they have the money.
steve9842016
Neo Member
I come from a family of body-builders and met Piana briefly at a fit expo many years ago.
I don't know too much else about his personal background, but it's sad to see the mental health state of the industry.
I hadn't thought about Piana in years until about a month+ ago when my girlfriend and I were rewatching Malcolm in the Middle. Totally forgot he was in there for a couple seconds. Took me by surprise to see his name in the news again several weeks later that he died. Bit eery.
I don't know too much else about his personal background, but it's sad to see the mental health state of the industry.
I hadn't thought about Piana in years until about a month+ ago when my girlfriend and I were rewatching Malcolm in the Middle. Totally forgot he was in there for a couple seconds. Took me by surprise to see his name in the news again several weeks later that he died. Bit eery.
LookAtMeGo
Member
Fair enough. I never said that they have no side effects. The side effects from proper usage has been exaggerated. Using AAS comes with risks and adverse side effects. Ive already stated that. And I've said that I would never encourage their usage. But a mild cycle for those who want more gains and push past plateaus can be done with minimal to no adverse long term effects. Almost any side effect is reversable after cessation. Aside from maybe male pattern baldness, which is actually pretty rare. The benefits from usuage while maybe temporary can include relief from joint pain from things like bursitis when using something like Deca durabolin, while using something like Winstrol can give the opposite effect. Deca can cause erectile dysfunction and Testosterone can give the opposite effect (while on it anyway) ect. The relief of joint pain is a benefit, the sex drive and overall feeling like youre 18 again while on testosterone is a benefit.
Yeah AAS main usage is for gains, whether its in size or performance.
I'm not claiming that it makes you healthier although it certainly makes you feel that way while on it. I am claiming that when used properly and this includes having all the proper medical testing done, it can be overall beneficial for those who want to reach these goals that would otherwise be impossible without their usage. And also with negligable adverse ling term effects.
Abuse and long term usuage has its inherent dangers as it does with any drug. I dont think anyone would self medicate with street gear to treat something a doctor could help you with a prescription such as shoulder pain. But depending on what sides/benefits a certain brand of AAS will have will be the difference for a lot of users.
Its dangerous. But it can be done in a way that can help you reach goals and for some people that is important to them. They can be quite the motivational tool.
so the problem with you thinking you know the supposed side effects is... nobody knows the actual side effects of these medications. if they even are what you're told they are, the endocrine system is INCREDIBLY complicated, and it's not so simple as X drug has Y side effect and Z benefit.
its a really complicated system and even now still isn't fully understood - not even close
its a really complicated system and even now still isn't fully understood - not even close
LookAtMeGo
Member
And thats an issue with how badly they are demonized as well. There is little evidence showing an actual cause and effect from their usage to many of the more serious side effects. Thats why so much of the "knowledge" comes from people using it with a trial and error approach.
It needs to be studied more.
But things like deca helping joints and winstrol causing joint pain are pretty well documented as its almost unanimously experienced by all users since their inception. Or ball shrinkage after injecting test for a while ect.
It needs to be studied more.
But things like deca helping joints and winstrol causing joint pain are pretty well documented as its almost unanimously experienced by all users since their inception. Or ball shrinkage after injecting test for a while ect.
If you're using drugs for legitimate, prescribed medicinal purposes- you can sleep well at night.
If you're a 50-year old man who wants to feel 30 again- whatever fuck it just don't get into any bar fights.
If you're doing it for vanity- then just be honest. You're looking for a shortcut to look bigger and better. Naturals will look down on you, and they kinda have the right. Drugs are evidenced to be a MASSIVE help.
As for athletes- I hate and I don't. If someone offered you the chance to make millions of dollars, potentially setting you and your loved ones up for life at the cost of a decade off your lifespan and questionable drug use under the supervision of a professional... fuck. Especially if you grew up poor. Just don't be a dick about it.
Although when it comes to pure combat sports, it's iffy. Your goal is generally to cause someone harm or disable them temporarily- that extra strength and aggression, even if everyone involved is also juicing, can mean serious repercussions.
If you're a 50-year old man who wants to feel 30 again- whatever fuck it just don't get into any bar fights.
If you're doing it for vanity- then just be honest. You're looking for a shortcut to look bigger and better. Naturals will look down on you, and they kinda have the right. Drugs are evidenced to be a MASSIVE help.
As for athletes- I hate and I don't. If someone offered you the chance to make millions of dollars, potentially setting you and your loved ones up for life at the cost of a decade off your lifespan and questionable drug use under the supervision of a professional... fuck. Especially if you grew up poor. Just don't be a dick about it.
Although when it comes to pure combat sports, it's iffy. Your goal is generally to cause someone harm or disable them temporarily- that extra strength and aggression, even if everyone involved is also juicing, can mean serious repercussions.
entremet
Member
Yep.
the girlfriend set the record straight and says he snorted his pre-workout...
I believe her.
After seeing a couple Rich Piana videos, I don't think he'd give a shit if people knew he had been doing cocaine, if he did.
eh there's a lot there to unpack
in general, in order for something to be a side effect from a drug, it has to have statistical significance. they're not going to give enough people enough steroid to have enough of a difference in many ways to call something a side effect, as doing a study in that way would run afoul of ethics
there is a lot of evidence with higher doses of anabolic steroids that they cause demonstrable harm in many body systems. you can't just say that you would magically avoid harm by using smaller doses, because there is NO data that any amount is safe.
take prednisone and other steroids in the same class as an example. we knew that high doses definitely caused issues. but it has real therapeutic benefit in many ways. it's used very commonly in pediatrics to treat asthma. without steroids, children would die from asthma attacks way more often than they do with. however, you give a child enough steroids, and we're not talking a lot, just 2-3 5 day courses in a 6 month period, and there's a very significant chance you just decreased that child's final adult height.
i agree that it needs to be studied more, but i would never say 'use it until there's definitive evidence that it's dangerous'
the issue is though, who is going to run these studies? what is the benefit of running these studies?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why does it destory the body?
esmith08734
Member
He looked like a ticking time bomb. Sad, but he really let himself go. Not only was he freakishly big but he was scary looking. Still, gone too soon.
Body dysmorphia goes both ways.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Not one person that actually knows more than 2% of fitness would consider Creatine a roid or harmful to the average body.
Creatine is in EVERY meat that you eat. And your body creates it's own creatine too. It's literally one of the most natural things you can take.
Summer Haze
Banned
Creatine a roid lol.
But fuck, he looked awful, body dismorphia is a weird one.
But fuck, he looked awful, body dismorphia is a weird one.
Yeah he looked horrific, the human body wasnt supposed to abused like this. I cant even look at some of thesw pics bwcause it makes the hair on my back stand up. RIP, but this was a pretty obvious outcome, completely irresponsible treatment of himself. Feels like he perhaps thrived on being a freak, it brought him attention.
IIRC, creatine is produced as your body breaks down (muscle) protein for energy and is reabsorbed to repair muscle damage post-workout. As an aside, breaking down creatine is highly efficient as a cellular energy source as well.
Having said that, your body can't really absorb that much creatine -- your body will pee out the excess as urea, which stresses your kidneys if you consume too much protein. The only real way to absorb excess creatine is with heavy workouts that stress muscle groups and fibers.
edit: Oh, and IIRC again, you need carbohydrate consumption to reabsorb that creatine.
See, it's statements that these that are inflammatory. Please don't say that it has no adverse effects. As GiJoccin has pointed out, the endocrine system is one of the most complex systems in the body. It is extremely hard to pinpoint how it works, and how supplementing more of a certain hormone may affect someone. It's easy to say that too much adrenaline leads to cushings, but it's harder to pinpoint the effect of long term effect of stress on the body. Stress leads to increased cortisol, and these things have huge long term adverse effects. But they're indirect. It directly affects memory, but it also indirectly leads to weight gain. These things are so delicate that the effect of prolonged heightened testosterone is shown to have direct and indirect effects. We're not talking the effects you're referring to when you're saying the effects are exaggerated. I'm talking about your health in the long run. We get the immediate effect of testosterone, but we don't know why more estrogen leads to less prostate cancer. It's literally shown that kissing your girl a lot has health benefits, because you get estrogen from their saliva, and that's shown to reduce the risk of prostate cancer. There can be a million of these effects, and it is so incredibly complex that those that have studied the endocrine system goes "wow, I don't wanna mess with that", which is why you can't say "it has no adverse effects if used correctly". It is simply not true.
You're kind of doubling down by saying you never said it had any adverse side effects, then saying they are negated if you use it properly, then saying they all disappear if you stop using it. No. We don't know that. There is not enough data, and even with tons of studies on the matter, the causation and interactions of the hormones and their balance is likely not mapped from studies alone. SOME of the BEST KNOWN side effects SEEM to be reversible when you stop using it. The most obvious ones. This does not mean there aren't any others that aren't directly visible.
See, again, this is what I take issue with. It's argument from authority. Having doctors involved, and making it a precise science doesn't magically make this literally you messing with your endocrine system. While correct use is the best use, it is not OK to say that "this is good, because when you use it correctly, you get the right results, but you don't really get any bad things from it". It's a gross oversimplification that lowers the bar on people taking it. As I stressed before, no matter the morality of using it, it should not be taken lightly to use it. You're purposefully fucking with your hormones. That's not a small thing to do.
Thank you.
Can you please tell me why it's bad that use of steroids are discouraged? What positive effect does it have to make steroids more accepted?
You're talking about anecdotal evidence. We're talking about the unknown the whole process of fucking with your hormones is, besides visible things like your hair falling out or not, or your balls shrinking.
I think you're thinking part about creatinine. That's a waste product, that sometimes is made in the process of rephosoforating creatine. Creatinine isn't reabsorbed. Creatine can phosphorylate ADP to ATP and.. well, in short, if there's creatine present, it can help have bigger bursts of energy quicker. It's made in the liver and kidneys. It's mostly in skeletal muscles, but if you take creatine, more will be in blood stream and tissue and ready to help muscles perform harder.
LookAtMeGo
Member
I read this a while back and thought it was informative.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3827559/
Sure I can agree with you that there a lot we dont know. Messing with your hormones isnt something to take lightly. I'm playing a slight devils advocate to the negativity towards them. I guess I am biased since I have used them before and am in excellent health and have zero side effects from them.
You are confusing me saying side effects with long term side effects.
Its not something people should take lightly. But again, neither is a lot of drugs that people like to take. Maybe I'll die some time in my 70's instead of my 80's. Maybe even sooner. But I promise you it wont be the few times I ran a mild AAS cycle that was the cause.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3827559/
Sure I can agree with you that there a lot we dont know. Messing with your hormones isnt something to take lightly. I'm playing a slight devils advocate to the negativity towards them. I guess I am biased since I have used them before and am in excellent health and have zero side effects from them.
You are confusing me saying side effects with long term side effects.
Its not something people should take lightly. But again, neither is a lot of drugs that people like to take. Maybe I'll die some time in my 70's instead of my 80's. Maybe even sooner. But I promise you it wont be the few times I ran a mild AAS cycle that was the cause.
Steroid use is idiotic. With the right training and diet, it's possible to gain an incredible physique entirely naturally. I used to get accused of steroid usage when I was younger and more into bodybuilding, but it was just the result of a couple of years of day in, day out effort.
LookAtMeGo
Member
Its been about 7 years since I ran a cycle. I only have done 2. The first was a year before that. But that boost it gave me back then sure as hell helped with my motivation to keep going. Some people are gentically gifted. I have a buddy who has never touched them and nobody believes him and the dude puts in half the amount of work I do into the gym and his diet is shit compared to mine.
TheContact
Member
Poor guy. The thing about being that big is your body doesn't know if it's overweight or if it's just muscle. Either way it takes the same toll on your heart. Body builders risk their lives greatly by doing this.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Ahhh...thanks. My dad can't take extra creatine because his body already has too much in it.
He's a 59-year-old marathon runner and tri-athlete. So that totally makes sense now.
CornBurrito
Member
Motivation to keep going with what?
You have no intrinsic motivation to be healthy unless you can continue lifting higher numbers? This to me sounds like someone giving up reading because they can't increase their words read per minute.
Why call it fitness if it has nothing to do with your health?
1. You're assuming an already optimal level of testosterone. A testosterone deficiency can be worse for your health in various ways than excessive testosterone (in men, obviously). Higher levels of testosterone have also been linked to lower occurrences of depression in men.
2. That was the whole purpose of comparing it to aspirin in the first place. There are risks with nearly any medication, even one most people consider innocuous, like aspirin. Those risks are mitigated, whether aspirin, anabolic steroids, blood pressure medication, by using a lower dosage. That's the point of having a recommended dosage. Never did I say anabolics are a miracle drug with only positive benefits and no side effects or negative effects. Obviously there are trade offs, especially with abuse.
3. Most of the long term effects correlated with use of anabolics is based on steroid abuse. People taking test that are 5-10x higher than the highest natural levels observed in humans. It is absolutely possible to supplement test for the lowering of body fat, increased muscle growth, and prevention of muscle wasting while limiting caloric intake without having the test levels of a bronco.
4. Depends on the type of cancer. AFAIK the cancer most commonly associated with anabolics abuse is prostate cancer. More recent studies have found that testosterone does affect not the occurrence of prostate cancer. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0302283806007871 It can, possibly, affect growth rate of existing cancers.
CornBurrito
Member
crazepharmacist
Member
So there's a video of Rich clearly fucked up on what looks like opiates. Nodding out hardcore. Can barely stand or walk. A spanish sounding woman recording him I think for the purposes of showing health care workers what happened if worst came to worst and an ambulance had to be called. (damn they would need a big ass stretcher and like a dozen people to lift this guy). I'm unsure of the intentions of it being released so soon after his death (money, fame? i dunno). but it's out there regardless and it shows that this guy clearly was a user of hardcore drugs outside of his steroid use. So there are so many factors that went in this man's demise. Supposed cocaine/preworkout snorting, narcotic use, etc. Who knows is there was one deciding factor. It was probably many. But I just don't want bodybuilders getting a bad rap because of this guy. He wasn't just using steroids, he was using a whole bunch of other shit too so you can't really blame just steroids for this.
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post videos of someone obviously high as hell on drugs but if I am i will post it. It's out there if you search for it though
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post videos of someone obviously high as hell on drugs but if I am i will post it. It's out there if you search for it though
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