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Blade Runner 2049 |OT| Do Androids Dream of Electric Boogaloo? [Unmarked Spoilers]

Stelline makes memories for Wallace corp. It's Wallace corp. that implants them. She just added one of her real memories to the pile, and I think it just so happens that K has it.

But it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense for her to have done that. She said she wants to give them happy memories -- it's not a happy memory. She says she is good at her job because of her imagination -- but it's not an imaginary memory. She says it's illegal to use real memories -- but it's a real memory.

This is of course aside from the impossible coincidence of the replicant who ended up with that memory also being the one investigating the case of the child born to a replicant -- the same child whose actual memory he has.
 
I think the memory was implanted to different replicants by either deckard or rachel so that it would be hard for the hunters to find Stelline and since they were outlaws, didn't care about legality. That's how I interpreted it.

Stelline's job was crafting memories for Replicants. She says outright that the best manufactured memories are based on real memories. K has been around for a while, so that memory was probably one she created early on as a means to cope with her situation. When she saw it she immediately recognized it was her memory. The scene serves as a bait and switch--he reaction of sadness doesn't make sense until you know all the facts, but when she confirms the memory is real (leaving out that it's her memory because that's illegal) it also serves to motivate K to go find Deckard thinking he is Deckard's son.

Did Deckard's daughter really have a disease or was that just a cover to hide her in plain sight?

It's a little unclear, but I think the answer may be both. If Replicants bodies function the same as humans, they would need to have an immune system to defend themselves--it's explained they are essentially programmed vat-grown humans made with some artificial bits here and there. In humans, children get their immune system from their mothers, but if Rachel was a Replicant, it may have complicated things. I think it was a cover but also based in truth. She probably has some legitimate health issues since she is literally the first Replicant to be "born", so odds are she was a little different. It's a classic narrative example of hiding something right under the antagonists nose. Wallace had hired Stelline to make memories for his Replicants full time, and she needed a secure environment to live/work. All the falsified information lead Wallace to believe she was 100% human, so he had no reason to suspect her.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
But it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense for her to have done that. She said she wants to give them happy memories -- it's not a happy memory. She says she is good at her job because of her imagination -- but it's not an imaginary memory. She says it's illegal to use real memories -- but it's a real memory.

This is of course aside from the impossible coincidence of the replicant who ended up with that memory also being the one investigating the case of the child born to a replicant -- the same child whose actual memory he has.

It doesn't make sense that she would've gone against the rules, even her own, to re-live some of her memories? All she has in that bubble is her past and the ones she creates for others.
Did Deckard's daughter really have a disease or was that just a cover to hide her in plain sight?

Since she lived in the shithole that was San Diego, I bet she's totally fine.
 
But it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense for her to have done that. She said she wants to give them happy memories -- it's not a happy memory. She says she is good at her job because of her imagination -- but it's not an imaginary memory. She says it's illegal to use real memories -- but it's a real memory.

This is of course aside from the impossible coincidence of the replicant who ended up with that memory also being the one investigating the case of the child born to a replicant -- the same child whose actual memory he has.

Are we seriously going to bitch about the inception of the mystery and the discovery of it for the movie?

It's not even that far fetched considering we know that they have millions of Replicants and clearly reuse crafted memories (something which is specifically mentioned in the first Blade Runner). As well as hinted at during the underground scene when K is told he isn't the child and "we all wish we were the child".

The boy died of a "genetic disease" so my assumption was that replicants giving birth is still an imperfect process and fucks up the childrens genetics.

Unless I'm mistaken, the boy never existed
 
The boy died of a "genetic disease" so my assumption was that replicants giving birth is still an imperfect process and fucks up the childrens genetics.

The boy that died was a cover for the daughter, that's why when you see the records showing a women and boy with the same DNA you presume it's K, it was one of the ways they threw of Wallace and also the viewer.
 
Yeah the boy never existed. It's why they had the same exact DNA. The boy was simply Stelline.

Correct. There were 2 birth entries with identical DNA--which could have been twins but that's a slight misstep--and it listed the girl as having died and the boy as having lived and gone on to that orphanage. In reality there never was a boy, and the girl (Stelline) went on to the orphanage and was kept secret. Deckard's role was to think like a Blade Runner and do everything to throw them off his and Rachel's trail, as well as keep their daughter safe. He intentionally made sure the entry was conflicting and confusing as possible, but still looked like it was a boy that lived rather than a girl.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Huh, I thought the boy did die, but the cover up was that they said the girl died instead. I thought them having identical DNA was related to them being replicant babies.

Replicant leader Freya or whatever told K that she was present during the birth and it was only one kid. Then she realized he thought it was him.
 
It doesn't make sense that she would've gone against the rules, even her own, to re-live some of her memories? All she has in that bubble is her past and the ones she creates for others.

Nothing was stopping her from re-living it all she wanted. Why would she sell it, especially when that's illegal?

She says outright that the best manufactured memories are based on real memories.

I don't think that she did say that. She said they have a little of the artist in them. In any case, this one isn't "based on" a real memory, it IS a real memory.

There just isn't anything in the story or the character to suggest a plausible reason why Stelline would break the law in order to make a few bucks by selling one of her own very powerful memories in its entirety, especially when her entire motive in her work is 1) imagining things she can't experience and 2) giving replicants HAPPY memories.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Nothing was stopping her from re-living it all she wanted. Why would she sell it, especially when that's illegal?

Because it was a good memory that she wanted to pass on? They talk about how all the best memories are hers. She's giving Replicants something that they hold dear. Just because we're never told the exact reason for why she gives Replicants her memories doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

Like TheLostBigBoss said, it's just a bit of a mystery. Ain't nothing wrong with something not being told outright.

[edit]

Also, I don't think they ever stated that they were supposed to give them happy memories. The point for giving them memories is to help them become well adjusted, I don't think you can become well adjusted if all your memories are happy. You gotta have a mixbag.
 
But it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense for her to have done that. She said she wants to give them happy memories -- it's not a happy memory. She says she is good at her job because of her imagination -- but it's not an imaginary memory. She says it's illegal to use real memories -- but it's a real memory.

This is of course aside from the impossible coincidence of the replicant who ended up with that memory also being the one investigating the case of the child born to a replicant -- the same child whose actual memory he has.

What does Joshie say about the memory? Something like "fighting for what's yours"?

It's not actually an unhappy memory. It's a triumphant one. And like Ana said herself, a good memory isn't about the details. It's about how it feels. Or something to that effect, at least.
 

TheRed

Member
Finally just saw this. It was a beautiful and amazing experience in IMAX. It really got sucked into it's world. I don't really have nostalgia for the first film since I only watched it recently. I think this one is even better for nailing it's themes and I really enjoyed it.

The ending made me want another one so bad. Here's to hoping it can happen someday with just as much quality.
 

BorkBork

The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
Because it was a good memory that she wanted to pass on? They talk about how all the best memories are hers. She's giving Replicants something that they hold dear. Just because we're never told the exact reason for why she gives Replicants her memories doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

Like TheLostBigBoss said, it's just a bit of a mystery. Ain't nothing wrong with something not being told outright.

[edit]

Also, I don't think they ever stated that they were supposed to give them happy memories. The point for giving them memories is to help them become well adjusted, I don't think you can become well adjusted if all your memories are happy. You gotta have a mixbag.

Also, good doesn't imply happy. There is trauma in the horse memory, but there is also triumph. Stelline manages to hide a precious part of herself away from the shithole of a world she was born into, knowing that it will be safe for all time. There is pain and loss and exhilaration all mixed together – That's definitely an experience that stays with a child.

There is evidence that emotional memories are more resistant to the decay processes that affect all memories. That might explain why Stelline's replicants memories are so good. Doesn't she ask K to recall how he felt as he recalled the memory to see if it was real or not? I have to watch the scene again.
 
apologies if this is not the right thread, but has anyone heard if they are going to press more Blade Runner 4k?

Would like to buy that version to re-watch it but looks like it is sold out everywhere.
 

louiedog

Member
apologies if this is not the right thread, but has anyone heard if they are going to press more Blade Runner 4k?

Would like to buy that version to re-watch it but looks like it is sold out everywhere.

Someone in another thread said they ordered when it was in stock at Target and the ship date was pushed back to the end of this month, so maybe they're expecting more then.
 
Just got back.... eh

If i had to sum it up in one word?

Overwrought?

:/

Maybe it'll take rewatches like the original, which i utterly adore
 

TyrantII

Member
But it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense for her to have done that. She said she wants to give them happy memories -- it's not a happy memory. She says she is good at her job because of her imagination -- but it's not an imaginary memory. She says it's illegal to use real memories -- but it's a real memory.

This is of course aside from the impossible coincidence of the replicant who ended up with that memory also being the one investigating the case of the child born to a replicant -- the same child whose actual memory he has.

tenor.gif


First part doesn't really need explanation. Second could just be that K was the only one who stumbled into it. For every other replicant, it's just a memory. Hell, it was for him in the end.

He's just a regular Joe. One of the points of the film.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
But it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense for her to have done that. She said she wants to give them happy memories -- it's not a happy memory. She says she is good at her job because of her imagination -- but it's not an imaginary memory. She says it's illegal to use real memories -- but it's a real memory.

This is of course aside from the impossible coincidence of the replicant who ended up with that memory also being the one investigating the case of the child born to a replicant -- the same child whose actual memory he has.

You could imagine that somehow she controlled K to free her. When he dies, as the snow falls, she is making a memory of falling snow. Could be also a suggestion that she will put K's memories in a future replicant.

Are we seriously going to bitch about the inception of the mystery and the discovery of it for the movie?

It's not even that far fetched considering we know that they have millions of Replicants and clearly reuse crafted memories (something which is specifically mentioned in the first Blade Runner). As well as hinted at during the underground scene when K is told he isn't the child and "we all wish we were the child".

Please explain where you heard about "clearly reused crafted memories" in BR1? Rachel was given Tyrell's niece's memories.
 
I guess it’s been discussed ad nauseam in this thread, but it’s so big it’s hard to look for the answer: why did Luv immediately flagged K’s inquiry into Rachael’s bones? Even the Wallace clerk seemed to have dismissed the request as “an old one”, nothing particularly special about it. Are we to assume they were actively looking into any hints and clues about all Nexxus 7 models?
 

SYNTAX182

Member
Stelline's job was crafting memories for Replicants. She says outright that the best manufactured memories are based on real memories. K has been around for a while, so that memory was probably one she created early on as a means to cope with her situation. When she saw it she immediately recognized it was her memory. The scene serves as a bait and switch--he reaction of sadness doesn't make sense until you know all the facts, but when she confirms the memory is real (leaving out that it's her memory because that's illegal) it also serves to motivate K to go find Deckard thinking he is Deckard's son.

Seems more likely. My interpretation makes no sense putting it that way. You clearly thought about this more than me so I'll go with your take, haha. The memory was probably implanted in a lot of replicants so it was just a coincidence that K happened to have it.

Edit: Thinking about it though, if K was before her, how did K get this memory if she started creating memories only after K was manufactured? Could it have been implanted later? Maybe by the group that was helping rachel so thay they could ultimately gind Deckard? I really gotta watch it again, one vieweing I can't see some of the details.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I guess it’s been discussed ad nauseam in this thread, but it’s so big it’s hard to look for the answer: why did Luv immediately flagged K’s inquiry into Rachael’s bones? Even the Wallace clerk seemed to have dismissed the request as “an old one”, nothing particularly special about it. Are we to assume they were actively looking into any hints and clues about all Nexxus 7 models?

Wallace knew Tyrell created at least 1 replicant that could reproduce and had a natural lifespan. All Nexus 6s died and the Nexus 8s were made after Tyrell passed away. That leaves...
 

Foxix Von

Member
Someone in another thread said they ordered when it was in stock at Target and the ship date was pushed back to the end of this month, so maybe they're expecting more then.

I saw the price of that earlier and just decided to take a gamble on the 4k collectors edition off of zavvi as it's on sale for not a whole lot more, iirc. Well, after taxes and shipping that is.
 
I guess it’s been discussed ad nauseam in this thread, but it’s so big it’s hard to look for the answer: why did Luv immediately flagged K’s inquiry into Rachael’s bones? Even the Wallace clerk seemed to have dismissed the request as “an old one”, nothing particularly special about it. Are we to assume they were actively looking into any hints and clues about all Nexxus 7 models?

Rachel was designed for Deckard and a child, but the details were lost in the blackout event, but Wallace knew some of what occured. All he had was this lead but did not know where Deckard was hiding now, if he was even still alive, or what happened to the likely baby? So he had an alert set for anyone poking around?
 
Just got back from a second viewing and there is some very well implemented symbolism that totally went over my head the first time around, two of my favorites being the presence of snow and the significance of the climax taking place at the ocean barrier.
 

solomon

Member
I just saw the film and was blown away but on two occasions heard in the crowd "this movie sucks" and "what a piece of shit", it saddens me hearing that, just because it was a slow pace somewhat low action film it's a POS for a lot of the more casual viewers.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
I just saw the film and was blown away but on two occasions heard in the crowd "this movie sucks" and "what a piece of shit", it saddens me that because it was a slow pace somewhat low action film it's a POS for a lot of the more casual viewers.

What can of degenerate says stuff like this? If you're not liking a movie, then get up and leave the damn theater, don't ruin it for everyone else by being a massive shit.
 

RoH

Member
But it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense for her to have done that. She said she wants to give them happy memories -- it's not a happy memory. She says she is good at her job because of her imagination -- but it's not an imaginary memory. She says it's illegal to use real memories -- but it's a real memory.

This is of course aside from the impossible coincidence of the replicant who ended up with that memory also being the one investigating the case of the child born to a replicant -- the same child whose actual memory he has.

Maybe she’s drinking her own koolade. She knows what she is, and what she has done to Joe.
 
No, it didn't. The Joi-K relationship is the most important thing in the movie!

The film has a very masculine POV, but it is not trying to endorse many of the things it is portraying.

Agreed. Also, the claim that Ford phoned in his performance is absurd. It's the best acting he's done in forever and was a real highlight.
 
No, it didn't. The Joi-K relationship is the most important thing in the movie!

The film has a very masculine POV, but it is not trying to endorse many of the things it is portraying.

To way too many people here and online, portrayal = endorsement. It's fucking baffling to me, but here we are. I think all these people should have to take a basic film introduction class before talking about movies in a serious way.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
No, it didn't. The Joi-K relationship is the most important thing in the movie!

The film has a very masculine POV, but it is not trying to endorse many of the things it is portraying.

I like this bit.

Villeneuve feels he can't give us a vision of womanhood outside of a shallow streetwalker or a femme killing machine. With the small exceptions of Robin Wright as a tortured police chief and Carla Juri as a fragile genius, the women in the cast sadly oblige.

This movie can't do women characters besides these two, aside from these other two, in a movie with barely any characters and those 4 are a huge chunk of the cast.

What's with VICE and this movie? They've got a hateboner for it.
 

Rydeen

Member
This movie can't do women characters besides these two, aside from these other two, in a movie with barely any characters and those 4 are a huge chunk of the cast.

What's with VICE and this movie? They've got a hateboner for it.

Notice it also leaves out the small but pivotal role of Hiam Abbass as Freysa, leader of the replicant resistance? Article is disingenuous garbage. The film is trying to open up discussion about subjects like gender roles and social isolation and it's being spun with buzz-words.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
Agreed. Also, the claim that Ford phoned in his performance is absurd. It's the best acting he's done in forever and was a real highlight.

Yeah, apart from Star Wars, this is one of the few modern performances from Ford where he shows he actually cares about what he's doing.

Also, good doesn't imply happy. There is trauma in the horse memory, but there is also triumph. Stelline manages to hide a precious part of herself away from the shithole of a world she was born into, knowing that it will be safe for all time. There is pain and loss and exhilaration all mixed together – That's definitely an experience that stays with a child.

There is evidence that emotional memories are more resistant to the decay processes that affect all memories. That might explain why Stelline's replicants memories are so good. Doesn't she ask K to recall how he felt as he recalled the memory to see if it was real or not? I have to watch the scene again.

Shieeeet, I just realize that the memory serves as an analogy for the entire film, at least in part.
 
I just got out of watching it and am still processing it all. On a base level though the look of this movie is unbelievable. The lighting is insane. The Joi syncing with the girl to make out with K was an amazing scene. The memory creation scene is also cool and inventive. There is just a ton of visual and audio treats in the movie.

Speaking of looks does anyone think Luv being somewhat similar in look to Rachel is intentional? Also does the origami Bull(?) have any significance, like maybe informing K the Horse isn’t part of his past?
 

BorkBork

The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
listening to the OST right now.

so good.

I've been looping the original Vangelis one for the past week - It goes without saying that it cannot be matched. I'm kind of shocked at how diverse it sounds (yes, I even love the sax), but I think 2049's soundtrack is just as "fitted", as it were, to its universe. There is a vastness to a lot of the tracks, as if an all-encompassing sound reverberates across these huge, dead industrial landscapes, mapping them out. I'm not a music guy, but I feel while it's not as easy to listen to on its own as Vangelis' effort, it evokes just as much.

Speaking of looks does anyone think Luv being somewhat similar in look to Rachel is intentional? Also does the origami Bull(?) have any significance, like maybe informing K the Horse isn't part of his past?

The hair definitely reminded me a bit of Rachel. I think Gaff's origami is a sheep. Some people have interpreted it as a hint to K that he's not special. I think it's a good take.
 

SYNTAX182

Member
No, it didn't. The Joi-K relationship is the most important thing in the movie!

The film has a very masculine POV, but it is not trying to endorse many of the things it is portraying.

I agree, K wouldn't have cared to help Deckard meet his daughter if he didn't experience that loss of love when Joi was extinguished, which in turn made him feel human at the end because he took action about something larger than what he was programmed to do.
 
But it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense for her to have done that. She said she wants to give them happy memories -- it's not a happy memory. She says she is good at her job because of her imagination -- but it's not an imaginary memory. She says it's illegal to use real memories -- but it's a real memory.

This is of course aside from the impossible coincidence of the replicant who ended up with that memory also being the one investigating the case of the child born to a replicant -- the same child whose actual memory he has.


Yeah, I had a problem with that as well. It was why I was trying to figure out whether there was some kind of connection between Deckard/Stelline and K.

The twist is good, he's not the chosen one, but then he still kind of is because of like you said, that impossible coincidence that he both has that memory AND is investigating that case.
 

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
But it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense for her to have done that. She said she wants to give them happy memories -- it's not a happy memory. She says she is good at her job because of her imagination -- but it's not an imaginary memory. She says it's illegal to use real memories -- but it's a real memory.

This is of course aside from the impossible coincidence of the replicant who ended up with that memory also being the one investigating the case of the child born to a replicant -- the same child whose actual memory he has.

Doesn't make sense? Stelline lives a totally isolated existence with no meaningful social contact and her only way of affecting the world in any way is the memory packages she produces for Wallace's replicants. As an artist and as a human, it's perfectly logical that she would want to put a part of herself into her work and release it into the world. That's the only way for her to make any impression on the outside world. It being illegal is totally irrelevant, she is already living like a prisoner anyway.

Many Wallace replicants have that memory, not just K, that was made clear in the movie.
 

Joeku

Member
Yo that anime short was really good. And even watching the two live action ones, while clearly lesser than the film proper, makes me anxious to get a VOD version to pause and examine.
 

Jarmel

Banned
Someone on reddit transcribed the full baseline test.

"A blood black nothingness began to spin.
Began to spin.
Let's move on to system. System.
Feel that in your body. The system.
What does it feel like to be part of the system. System.
Is there anything in your body that wants to resist the system? System.
Do you get pleasure out of being a part of the system? System.
Have they created you to be a part of the system? System.
Is there security in being a part of the system? System.
Is there a sound that comes with the system? System.
We're going to go on. Cells.
They were all put together at a time. Cells.
Millions and billions of them. Cells.
Were you ever arrested? Cells.
Did you spend much time in the cell? Cells.
Have you ever been in an instituion? Cells.
Do they keep you in a cell? Cells.
When you're not performing your duties do they keep you in a little box? Cells.
Interlinked.
What's it like to hold the hand of someone you love? Interlinked.
Do they teach you how to feel finger to finger? Interlinked.
Do you long for having your heart interlinked? Interlinked.
Do you dream about being interlinked?
Have they left a place for you where you can dream? Interlinked.
What's it like to hold your child in your arms? Interlinked.
What's it like to play with your dog? Interlinked.
Do you feel that there's a part of you that's missing? Interlinked.
Do you like to connect to things? Interlinked.
What happens when that linkage is broken? Interlinked.
Have they let you feel heartbreak? Interlinked.
Did you buy a present for the person you love? Within cells interlinked.
Why don't you say that three times? Within cells interlinked. Within cells interlinked. Within cells interlinked.
Where do you go when you go within? Within.
Has anyone ever locked you out of a room? Within.
Within.
Where do you go to when you go within? Within.
Where is the place in the world you feel the safest? Within.
Do you have a heart? Within.
Stem.
Did you pick asparagus stems?
What comes from something else? Stem.
Have you been to the source of a river? Stem.
When's the first time you gave a flower to a girl? Stem.
What did she look like? Stem.
Is it a slang word for people's legs? Stem.
Have you planeted things in the ground? Stem.
Have you ever been in a legal battle? Stem.
Within one stem.
Dreadfully.
Is that an old fashioned word? Dreadfully.
Did you ever want to live in the nineteenth century? Dreadfully.
What's it like to be filled with dread? Dreadfully.
Do you think you could find out all the answers to all the questions? Dreadfully.
Distinct.
How good are your eyes? Distinct.
Do you have a particular personality? Distinct.
What separates somebody from somebody else? Distinct.
Who do you admire most in the world? Distinct.
What was your most shameful moment? Distinct.
Dreadfully distinct.
Dark.
Were you afraid of the dark whan you were little? Dark.
What's it like to hide under a bed? Dark.
Did they keep you in a drawer when they were building you? Dark?
Was it dark in there? Dark.
Do you have dark thoughts? Dark?
Did they program you to have dark thoughts? Dark?
Do you think it's some kind of corruption these dark thoughts? Dark.
Maybe it's a spot of rust or something? Dark.
Who's the darkest person you know? Dark.
What is it like when someone gives you the silent treatment. Dark.
Who did you get your darkness from? Dark.
Against the dark.
What kind of power do you have against the dark. Against the dark.
Do you think there is such a thing as evil? Against the dark.
Do you think you can protect people against the dark. Against the dark.
Why are these things happening? Against the dark.
Do you prefer the day or the night? Against the dark.
When is the last time you saw a starry sky? Against the dark.
What's your favorite part of the moon? Against the dark.
Fountain.
Have you seen the Trevi fountain in Rome? Fountain.
Have you ever seen the fountain in Lincoln center? Fountain.
Have you seen fountains out in the wild? Fountain.
What's it like when you have an orgasm. Fountain.
Have you read the Fountainhead? Fountain.
White Fountain.
Is it pure white? White Fountain.
Is that a metaphor? White Fountain.
How did the white Fountain make you feel? White Fountain.
A tall white fountain played.
When you were little did you ever fall into a Fountain? A Tall White Fountain.
Do you like fire, earth, air or water. A Tall White Fountain.
Do you like skipping around in the water? A Tall White Fountain.
A blood black nothingness.
A system of cells.
Within cells interlinked.
Within one stem.
And dreadfully distinct.
Against the dark.
A tall white fountain played."
 

HariKari

Member
Wait, was Stelline not in on the whole plan? She knows she's born from a replicant right? And that the rebels were the ones who hid her?

She says she was eight when they confined her to the room. I don't think they told her, honestly. "But I'll take my freedom where I can get it" could also be her doing 'illegal' things with memories.

Saw it a 2nd time. Despite drunk people behind us, it was just as good. So many new details. Joi is 'paused' by an employer request during the rain scene, for example. So either Joi is given to certain replicants as a possible coping mechanism or it's just another example of how much of their independence is an illusion.
 
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