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[Moneal]

Straight white males aren't being bullied because they're white to the point of suicide

Where was the qualifier to the point of suicide?

When was the last time you saw a group of straight white males being shamed for just being them?

Also why is suicide the point where we should protect someone from bullying?

 

[HStallion]

The trans community could be "militant" because Gaf was one of the few places, especially in the gaming sphere, that gladly and unquestioningly welcomed the transgender community and gave them a place to call home. Judgement of them for who they are was not given the time of day and for the same reason it shouldn't be given for any other minority community. Yet we still got a lot of ignorant hot takes that were often far more hurtful than those who made then might have even realized and I can't blame people who've had to put up with that kind of stuff in the real world with people face to face, sometimes from those who might actually hurt them or worse, well I can't blame them for not taking kindly to ignorance in a place they could come to not have to worry about that kind of stuff because most of the community didn't care or if they did, knew it was not the place for such stuff.

 

[TheGraykid]

Oh I totally agree. That is how I pesonally go through all this. But there are much more fraigle people out there. Especially boys these days feel totally lost in our current society. They have no place anymore and men are being stigmatozed by extremists movement like the modern feminism as an example and these are the people who do all this. So yes it is important to understand where thi extremism comes from. That why I also always said that you should talk to these people and not try to shut them down. or censoring people. By doing this you will archive the oposite effect IMO.

And for the trans article:

These kind of wordings will cause so much hostility and it is not countering general transphobia. I personally think it does the opposite since you accuse people who in general do not care about tans people and just want them to live their lifes while also not wanting to personally involved in their lifes (aka relationship) Tans people or any minority does not need to be accepted by everyone. The people you should fight is who actually want to hurt these minorities.

Personal example: I am all for gay marriage and if someone is gay I will be happy for him be it friend or not. But I also can not watch two men kiss. I do not think I am disgusted by it is the right reason and if someone does it I just look the other way and done. To call these kind of people homophobic will only lessen their support. We need to stop to argue in absolutes. If someone does not like something that is fine let them be. They do not hurt you. They will only become hostile if you act in a agressive way like accusing them of something.

Yeah dude. To say that you're specifically disgusted by two men kissing is a really hurtful, and carrying actions out in the world that suggest that is really hurtful. And that is homophobic, it is less homophobic than the person screaming "death to gays," but it is homophobic. I'm not calling you a homophobe, I'm just letting you know that this is a homophobic reaction to have.

I felt like your argument leant towards pointing out that in order to build successful coalitions of power people should put up with low levels of homophobia/sexism/racism, but ended up at homophobia/sexism/racism is just people's opinion and that you should just let them be as long as they're not physically harming you.

My problems with this are many, but I'll just stick to two points.

1. I feel like you really underestimate how soul crushing it is to be constantly treated as though you are a lesser brand of human being.

2. What your post advocates for is acceptance. Acceptance for people who ironically refuse to accept other people. You're asking that people not make fun of or exclude or shit on people for their hurtful actions. I advocate that if you act like a mean, hurtful idiot, that people should treat you that way. If someone was being mean or hurtful in any other way would you advocate for them like this?

 

[OrionFalls]

Where was the qualifier to the point of suicide?

Also why is suicide the point where we should protect someone from bullying?

Your posts reek of white privilege.

“Boohoo, won’t somebody please think of the poor spoiled white men!?”

 

[Moneal]

Your posts reek of white privilege.

“Boohoo, won’t somebody please think of the poor spoiled white men!?”

again with my white privilege even though I have none. You proved the point.

 

[dolabla]

Yeah, I mean, this was off-topic:



I could barely look at it at the time. All the threads in pink were deleted by the mods to try to keep the peace while I tried to write some kind of official statement, but everything kept getting worse and worse. I basically hadn't slept for three days at that point because I found out about the facebook allegation two days prior and since she deleted it the next day and it hadn't become a thing I didn't know if I'd have to address it publicly or not. Then I guess some Social Justice gaffers got together on Twitter and coordinated posting screenshots of the already deleted allegation all over the site the day after that, everything went wild as per the screenshot above, we were then getting DDoSed and the site was down more than it was up, mods started having panic attacks and resigning and then the site was pretty much completely down from the DDoSing and I had rewritten my statement like a dozen times over at that point and had nothing left in me. I basically shifted over to saying goodbyes to everyone who was quitting since some of those folks I had been running gaf with for almost two decades. Gromph was trying to get the site back up but I told him to get some sleep since everything seemed fucked anyway, and I spent the night emailing Patrick Klepek with comment about the story (while still not having slept yet I don't think...) since I figured he would be a more neutral and well-researched avenue than Kotaku, who asked me absolutely ridiculous leading questions.

When Gromph woke up he managed to take the site down officially for maintenance through the DDoSes, and I tried to regroup the remaining few people to figure out what to do when we turned things back on, but there was barely anyone left and off-topic was where most of the rioting had taken place, so that's why off-topic was closed temporarily. Some insane social justice people were trying to get anyone who hadn't disavowed NeoGAF fired from their jobs (unsuccessfully, since that's ridiculous, but it still created more panic internally). I told everyone from the start of the panic that morning to protect themselves first and foremost and that I didn't blame them if they felt they needed to leave. Almost everyone ended up leaving. When we came back online we didn't have enough mod coverage to possibly deal with all the Reset promotional spam so we just kind of let it run its course, figure out what to do, I lawyered up and started documenting evidence with my lawyers that discredited the allegation completely, but very quickly the narrative moved on to how it "wasn't about the allegation" anymore.

I had to take care of family medical emergencies shortly thereafter and I was pretty shaken by everything and didn't want to bring any volunteer mods into such a shitstorm where people were trying to fuck with anyone still involved with the site, so even though tons of people offered to help mod via PM I turned them down, asked them to sit tight and just give things some time, and hired some contractors to take care of things on the moderation end until everything settled down enough where I felt it was okay to bring a new team of mods in. I mean, when the contractors were helping, things were still really bad with hundreds of account suicides with porn spam and Reset promotion. We got Cloudflare up ASAP though and so the subsequent DDoS attempts were unsuccessful at least.

It was messy. I fucked up plenty during the whole thing and didn't communicate with everyone here enough except through some PMs, because I was really sad about how the community seemed to turn on me so awfully, and then the media circus that followed was just astounding in scope and I wanted nothing to do with that either and told all my friends and business associates to distance themselves until things cooled off. I probably should have protected myself more instead of just letting it all hit me, but it seemed like the public narrative had been set in stone instantly anyway.

Wow! Trying to get people fired from their jobs if they didn't disavow from Gaf? I knew there were some far left social justice nutjobs on old Gaf, but that is insane. Sorry you had to go through all that crap. It's amazing how someone can just throw out an allegation with no proof and you're automatically guilty.

I'm really glad to see where the new board is headed. Just reading around seeing people debating each other without the pile ons and without the usual buzzwords old Gaf would throw around if you were a dissenting opinion coming into the echo chamber. It's great to see. It definitely makes for a far healthier board when there are different povs.

 

[Dunki]

Yeah dude. To say that you're specifically disgusted by two men kissing is a really hurtful, and carrying actions out in the world that suggest that is really hurtful. And that is homophobic, it is less homophobic than the person screaming "death to gays," but it is homophobic. I'm not calling you a homophobe, I'm just letting you know that this is a homophobic reaction to have.

I felt like your argument leant towards pointing out that in order to build successful coalitions of power people should put up with low levels of homophobia/sexism/racism, but ended up at homophobia/sexism/racism is just people's opinion and that you should just let them be as long as they're not physically harming you.

My problems with this are many, but I'll just stick to two points.

1. I feel like you really underestimate how soul crushing it is to be constantly treated as though you are a lesser brand of human being.

2. What your post advocates for is acceptance. Acceptance for people who ironically refuse to accept other people. You're asking that people not make fun of or exclude or shit on people for their hurtful actions. I advocate that if you act like a mean, hurtful idiot, that people should treat you that way. If someone was being mean or hurtful in any other way would you advocate for them like this?

I said disgusting is the wrong word. I maybe can compare it to not being able to see my own blood. I do not think it is disgusting. And I did not even say espeically. And I also would never say anything. I just look away while being happy for them? And since English is not my native language it maybe came over in the wrong way: What I meant is that you should chose your fights and as you said accept these kind of things.

For me hobophobic, xenophobic or transophobic people are the ones who do not accept you as equal and openly want to harm you or your rights. If someone does not like you for whatever reason. And this not only goes for your race, gender, sex etc but for everything you that makes you you than this is fine as long they do not show it as disgust or want to physically/mentally or any form hurt you . If they ignore you its totally fine IMO.

And the last point: This is part of a democracy and the freedom of speech: Example: I do not agree with your opinion but I will defend your right to think or state it" So if you say you do not like me. I also have to accept this because it is your opinion. And if someone does not like me I will ignore this person and only interact if I have to ´but not act in any agressive or hostile way.

 

[ipukespiders]

1. I feel like you really underestimate how soul crushing it is to be constantly treated as though you are a lesser brand of human being.

Constantly? In the literal sense?

 

[OrionFalls]

again with my white privilege even though I have none. You proved the point.

All your posts so far have been about defending straight white males. You’ve done nothing to disprove my claim you’re privileged.

 

[Moneal]

All your posts so far have been about defending straight white males. You’ve done nothing to disprove my claim you’re privileged.

Well I have told you my dad is black and my mom is white. I am not going to go farther than that. And since its your claim you, i don't have to disprove it you have to prove it. My posts are about treating people equally, not defending straight white males or anyone else.

 

[Kotzen Ducha]

The privilege olympics is a terrible way to organize a society.
Most of us have shelter, daily food and clean water, access to the internet and to jobs.
We're all incredibly privileged in the scope of humanity, and yet a few groups want to try to use those minor differences to try and leverage power.

You can't legislate outcome, but you can provide protections for all Americans which is what we've done.
What laws are we lacking? You can't attack somebody for being trans. You can't exclude them from work. You can't steal from them. They can vote. They can drive cars and shop at stores.

Some people think that bathrooms should be divided by biological sex and that's a fine distinction to make although I really care very little about the issue either way.

 

[OrionFalls]

Well I have told you my dad is black and my mom is white. I am not going to go farther than that. And since its your claim you, i don't have to disprove it you have to prove it. My posts are about treating people equally, not defending straight white males or anyone else.

And yet you continue to think that trans people, a group oft targeted simply because they are who they are, don’t deserve extra protection, while retaining the argument that straight white males deserve the same level of protection as trans people. You need to take a step back and look at society. The two are not the same. The two get treated completely differently. One needs extra protection, the other does not.

 

[Moneal]

And yet you continue to think that trans people, a group oft targeted simply because they are who they are, don’t deserve extra protection, while retaining the argument that straight white males deserve the same level of protection as trans people. You need to take a step back and look at society. The two are not the same. The two get treated completely differently. One needs extra protection, the other does not.

No one deserves extra protection. No one needs extra protection. We have to enforce the protections we have for everyone. If we do that people that need protection will be protected. Monitoring to protect groups that have higher levels of targeting is fine, as i have said before. I believe that is all that is needed. We don't need laws that only protect specific groups.

You try to dismiss my argument by attacking who you think I am, instead of presenting your argument. It is arguing in bad faith.

 

[shpankey]

I think we’re back to the same point again. These groups are not getting the same level of protection with the same law for all. With specific laws it not only raises social awareness of an important injustice happening but in my mind forces the matter for the law enforcement selectively choosing when to enforce it as it’s now a socially aware issue with real consequences for ignoring.

But I do agree in theory to one rule for all, if it were actually implemented the same for all. But this is the real world now and it isn’t.
My 2 coppers anyhow

 

[Moneal]

I think we’re back to the same point again. These groups are not getting the same level of protection with the same law for all. With specific laws it not only raises social awareness of an important injustice happening but in my mind forces the matter for the law enforcement selectively choosing when to enforce it.

Raising social awareness isn't something laws should do.

If law enforcement isn't enforcing laws as they should be then yes that is an entirely different problem that needs to be addressed. But if they aren't enforcing the laws as they are, what's to say they would enforce new laws protecting only certain groups?

 

[shpankey]

Raising social awareness isn't something laws should do.

If law enforcement isn't enforcing laws as they should be then yes that is an entirely different problem that needs to be addressed. But if they aren't enforcing the laws as they are, what's to say they would enforce new laws protecting only certain groups?

That's a side effect, not the intent. The intent of the law is to make sure they are being protected.

The answer to your second question is literally what I just posted and is the side effect I was just mentioning. Because of the side effect of being socially aware and having severe social consequences.

 

[Moneal]

That's a side effect, not the intent. The intent of the law is to make sure they are being protected.

The answer to your second question is literally what I just posted and imo WHY they are needed.

It isn't answering anything. If the police don't enforce the current laws, what makes you think they will enforce the new laws? They are not enforcing them for a reason. That reason isn't going to change if new laws are added.

 

[Zog]

Your posts reek of white privilege.

“Boohoo, won’t somebody please think of the poor spoiled white men!?”

Oh wow, keep it coming.

 

[shpankey]

It isn't answering anything. If the police don't enforce the current laws, what makes you think they will enforce the new laws? They are not enforcing them for a reason. That reason isn't going to change if new laws are added.

I feel like we are talking in circles here. I will say [repeat] it one last time...

"but in my mind forces the matter for the law enforcement selectively choosing when to enforce it as it’s now a socially aware issue with real consequences for ignoring"

I don't know how else to say it. And I don't mean that in a bad way at all. I just don't.

Now you can argue a bunch of different aspects as far as that goes, and you are welcome to [w/o me], but that's the point I was making. I'm perfectly content to disagree and am not looking to "win" an argument. Just state my opinion.

p.s. I don't even disagree with you in theory, I just don't think we are there yet.

 

[ipukespiders]

And yet you continue to think that trans people, a group oft targeted simply because they are who they are, don’t deserve extra protection, while retaining the argument that straight white males deserve the same level of protection as trans people. You need to take a step back and look at society. The two are not the same. The two get treated completely differently. One needs extra protection, the other does not.

You make it sound like trans people are professional victims. Can a person be trans and not have their life revolve around their identity of being trans? I’m assuming I see trans people in my day to day life, but I don’t really know cause they’re not throwing their identity in my face all the time.

 

[Moneal]

I feel like we are talking in circles here. I will say [repeat] it one last time...

"but in my mind forces the matter for the law enforcement selectively choosing when to enforce it as it’s now a socially aware issue with real consequences for ignoring"

I don't know how else to say it. And I don't mean that in a bad way at all. I just don't.

Now you can argue a bunch of different aspects as far as that goes, and you are welcome to [w/o me], but that's the point I was making. I'm perfectly content to disagree and am not looking to "win" an argument. Just state my opinion.

p.s. I don't even disagree with you in theory, I just don't think we are there yet.

I think that laws punishing law enforcement for not enforcing laws could work and I would be in favor of something like that. The enforcement would have to be federal.

 

[shpankey]

I think that laws punishing law enforcement for not enforcing laws could work and I would be in favor of something like that. The enforcement would have to be federal.

Yeah that would definitely be even better!

 

[Blam]

Yeah, I mean, this was off-topic:



I could barely look at it at the time. All the threads in pink were deleted by the mods to try to keep the peace while I tried to write some kind of official statement, but everything kept getting worse and worse. I basically hadn't slept for three days at that point because I found out about the facebook allegation two days prior and since she deleted it the next day and it hadn't become a thing I didn't know if I'd have to address it publicly or not. Then I guess some Social Justice gaffers got together on Twitter and coordinated posting screenshots of the already deleted allegation all over the site the day after that, everything went wild as per the screenshot above, we were then getting DDoSed and the site was down more than it was up, mods started having panic attacks and resigning and then the site was pretty much completely down from the DDoSing and I had rewritten my statement like a dozen times over at that point and had nothing left in me. I basically shifted over to saying goodbyes to everyone who was quitting since some of those folks I had been running gaf with for almost two decades. Gromph was trying to get the site back up but I told him to get some sleep since everything seemed fucked anyway, and I spent the night emailing Patrick Klepek with comment about the story (while still not having slept yet I don't think...) since I figured he would be a more neutral and well-researched avenue than Kotaku, who asked me absolutely ridiculous leading questions.

When Gromph woke up he managed to take the site down officially for maintenance through the DDoSes, and I tried to regroup the remaining few people to figure out what to do when we turned things back on, but there was barely anyone left and off-topic was where most of the rioting had taken place, so that's why off-topic was closed temporarily. Some insane social justice people were trying to get anyone who hadn't disavowed NeoGAF fired from their jobs (unsuccessfully, since that's ridiculous, but it still created more panic internally). I told everyone from the start of the panic that morning to protect themselves first and foremost and that I didn't blame them if they felt they needed to leave. Almost everyone ended up leaving. When we came back online we didn't have enough mod coverage to possibly deal with all the Reset promotional spam so we just kind of let it run its course, figure out what to do, I lawyered up and started documenting evidence with my lawyers that discredited the allegation completely, but very quickly the narrative moved on to how it "wasn't about the allegation" anymore.

I had to take care of family medical emergencies shortly thereafter and I was pretty shaken by everything and didn't want to bring any volunteer mods into such a shitstorm where people were trying to fuck with anyone still involved with the site, so even though tons of people offered to help mod via PM I turned them down, asked them to sit tight and just give things some time, and hired some contractors to take care of things on the moderation end until everything settled down enough where I felt it was okay to bring a new team of mods in. I mean, when the contractors were helping, things were still really bad with hundreds of account suicides with porn spam and Reset promotion. We got Cloudflare up ASAP though and so the subsequent DDoS attempts were unsuccessful at least.

It was messy. I fucked up plenty during the whole thing and didn't communicate with everyone here enough except through some PMs, because I was really sad about how the community seemed to turn on me so awfully, and then the media circus that followed was just astounding in scope and I wanted nothing to do with that either and told all my friends and business associates to distance themselves until things cooled off. I probably should have protected myself more instead of just letting it all hit me, but it seemed like the public narrative had been set in stone instantly anyway.

Yeah I saw all of it all the way through it was seriously insane how many people just flipped their IDGAF switch. The #metoo thing really has gotten so fucking out of hand at this point it's disgusting. That first day I honestly didn't see the site recovering from that, it seemed like it was being hit with so much traffic, but I honestly didn't know if it was. tbh the way reset did nearly everything was pretty bad, but I'm not gonna get into that. I remembered that they went after anyone who had any info online and tried to blackmail it was pretty bad. I can agree it was pretty messy. The media hounded the fuck out of you as well. Sorta better that you didn't even say much because it would have been picked apart bit by bit, and thrown out of context.

 

[EviLore]

Yeah I saw all of it all the way through it was seriously insane how many people just flipped their IDGAF switch. The #metoo thing really has gotten so fucking out of hand at this point it's disgusting. That first day I honestly didn't see the site recovering from that, it seemed like it was being hit with so much traffic, but I honestly didn't know if it was. tbh the way reset did nearly everything was pretty bad, but I'm not gonna get into that. I remembered that they went after anyone who had any info online and tried to blackmail it was pretty bad. I can agree it was pretty messy. The media hounded the fuck out of you as well. Sorta better that you didn't even say much because it would have been picked apart bit by bit, and thrown out of context.

I know there were some forum politics involved w/ you over there, btw, but regardless of that stuff and whatever the impetus or underlying reasons, you've been a consistently positive contributor to the site during these messy and tenuous times recently and you're totally welcome here.

 

[Dienekes]

I know there were some forum politics involved w/ you over there, btw, but regardless of that stuff and whatever the impetus or underlying reasons, you've been a consistently positive contributor to the site during these messy and tenuous times recently and you're totally welcome here.

I couldn't agree more... glad to have you here Blam!

 

[Mohonky]

How was it 'bad faith' and 'asinine'?

It was frank and honest. I always wanted to talk about it before, but couldn't, and now we can.

Going through the thread you'll see next to no one believes there was a 'militant transgender' agenda, there was certainly an authoritive like clique but it wasn't specifically attributed to anyone or anything transgender; which along with some of the wording of your post has some people wondering why you singled out that particular subject among the many that was highly scrutinised.

Maybe you got banned in a thread on the subject so you just noticedit more than other topics perhaps, I dont know, but as you can see by the responses no one really believes any problems with censorship can be attributed to one specific group.

 

[Lupingosei]

Your posts reek of white privilege.

“Boohoo, won’t somebody please think of the poor spoiled white men!?”

Hi, I am a straight white male. Let me tell you a story. I have neurodermatitis, so until puberty my body looked pretty much like Deadpool. Pretty much every night I scratched myself bloody. And because it was born in the 70s and nobody had a clue about all of this. In the 80s they send me from one doctor to the other. The gave me penicillin, which made everything worse. So for a year, I looked more like Freddy Kruger. They bandaged my hands so I would not scratch my skin of my body. Have you ever showered with other kids when you look like a zombie? In summer I only went swimming early in the morning when nobody was there. Sometimes during the night I was screaming of pain and because they had no other idea the injected cortisone into my body which fucked up a lot. During puberty, it peaked and sometimes I just wanted to kill myself because all that pain was just too much. I started showering with burning hot water because it reduced the pain for a few hours. And btw girls are strangely enough not looking for boys like me and most people don't want to be near you when your hands, arms or face are full of bloody marks and your fingernails are black because of the scratched of skin under it. During a school camp, some of my classmates thought it was funny to put itching powder into my sleeping bag. That was a lot of fun. Fortunately, after puberty, it started to slow down and now medicine is a lot better. But if the weather is changing or a buy wrong clothing with some chemicals I react to, it is time for the chimichangas again.

Yes, I am a straight white male and I should have all the privilege. Do you know what it means to me? Nothing. So please stop the oppression olympics who has it worse. People can be happy even though they should not be and people can be miserable even though they should be happy. It is all about the individual. Those generalizations are bullshit. Everybody has their own story.

 

[Blam]

I know there were some forum politics involved w/ you over there, btw, but regardless of that stuff and whatever the impetus or underlying reasons, you've been a consistently positive contributor to the site during these messy and tenuous times recently and you're totally welcome here.

Thanks that's good to hear. I ain't going anywhere any time soon that's for sure . GAF is seriously feeling much more welcoming now I'm happy

 

[Mohonky]

Hi, I am a straight white male. Let me tell you a story. I have neurodermatitis, so until puberty my body looked pretty much like Deadpool. Pretty much every night I scratched myself bloody. And because it was born in the 70s and nobody had a clue about all of this. In the 80s they send me from one doctor to the other. The gave me penicillin, which made everything worse. So for a year, I looked more like Freddy Kruger. They bandaged my hands so I would not scratch my skin of my body. Have you ever showered with other kids when you look like a zombie? In summer I only went swimming early in the morning when nobody was there. Sometimes during the night I was screaming of pain and because they had no other idea the injected cortisone into my body which fucked up a lot. During puberty, it peaked and sometimes I just wanted to kill myself because all that pain was just too much. I started showering with burning hot water because it reduced the pain for a few hours. And btw girls are strangely enough not looking for boys like me and most people don't want to be near you when your hands, arms or face are full of bloody marks and your fingernails are black because of the scratched of skin under it. During a school camp, some of my classmates thought it was funny to put itching powder into my sleeping bag. That was a lot of fun. Fortunately, after puberty, it started to slow down and now medicine is a lot better. But if the weather is changing or a buy wrong clothing with some chemicals I react to, it is time for the chimichangas again.

Yes, I am a straight white male and I should have all the privilege. Do you know what it means to me? Nothing. So please stop the oppression olympics who has it worse. People can be happy even though they should not be and people can be miserable even though they should be happy. It is all about the individual. Those generalizations are bullshit. Everybody has their own story.

Damn that sounds horrible.

Hope the medicationnis doing the trick

 

[PtM]

I said disgusting is the wrong word. I maybe can compare it to not being able to see my own blood. I do not think it is disgusting. And I did not even say espeically. And I also would never say anything. I just look away while being happy for them? And since English is not my native language it maybe came over in the wrong way: What I meant is that you should chose your fights and as you said accept these kind of things.

For me hobophobic, xenophobic or transophobic people are the ones who do not accept you as equal and openly want to harm you or your rights. If someone does not like you for whatever reason. And this not only goes for your race, gender, sex etc but for everything you that makes you you than this is fine as long they do not show it as disgust or want to physically/mentally or any form hurt you . If they ignore you its totally fine IMO.

And the last point: This is part of a democracy and the freedom of speech: Example: I do not agree with your opinion but I will defend your right to think or state it" So if you say you do not like me. I also have to accept this because it is your opinion. And if someone does not like me I will ignore this person and only interact if I have to ´but not act in any agressive or hostile way.

So what you're saying is (hehe), you're not homophobic but just allergic or something to them?
Real talk, did you know that "phobia" means fear?

Hi, I am a straight white male. Let me tell you a story. I have neurodermatitis, so until puberty my body looked pretty much like Deadpool. Pretty much every night I scratched myself bloody. And because it was born in the 70s and nobody had a clue about all of this. In the 80s they send me from one doctor to the other. The gave me penicillin, which made everything worse. So for a year, I looked more like Freddy Kruger. They bandaged my hands so I would not scratch my skin of my body. Have you ever showered with other kids when you look like a zombie? In summer I only went swimming early in the morning when nobody was there. Sometimes during the night I was screaming of pain and because they had no other idea the injected cortisone into my body which fucked up a lot. During puberty, it peaked and sometimes I just wanted to kill myself because all that pain was just too much. I started showering with burning hot water because it reduced the pain for a few hours. And btw girls are strangely enough not looking for boys like me and most people don't want to be near you when your hands, arms or face are full of bloody marks and your fingernails are black because of the scratched of skin under it. During a school camp, some of my classmates thought it was funny to put itching powder into my sleeping bag. That was a lot of fun. Fortunately, after puberty, it started to slow down and now medicine is a lot better. But if the weather is changing or a buy wrong clothing with some chemicals I react to, it is time for the chimichangas again.

Yes, I am a straight white male and I should have all the privilege. Do you know what it means to me? Nothing. So please stop the oppression olympics who has it worse. People can be happy even though they should not be and people can be miserable even though they should be happy. It is all about the individual. Those generalizations are bullshit. Everybody has their own story.

White privilege is about the shit you don't have to deal with. So even if one has all the privilege, they won't see it.

 

[Agent_Carnage]

I dont think it was the entire community it was a few people with that mindset that was helped along by some mods.

 

[Mahadev]

White privilege is about the shit you don't have to deal with. So even if one has all the privilege, they won't see it.

The question is why the fuck anyone would make a term about injustices groups don't face as if injustice should be the norm and why use a loaded term like "privilege" which isn't only wrong but 90% of the time is used in a hostile way. Using your definition of privilege do you know how many privileges you have compared to many people in this forum? Financial privilege which is the most important of them all in todays society, first world privilege, educational privilege, housing privilege, free speech privilege, religious freedom privilege and so on. The list could go on until the end of time.

The other question is why some of you guys are practically obsessed only with race "privilege" to the point you feel the need to mention it in every fucking discussion. Or do you want to lay down and measure all our privileges every time we start a discussion in order to find out whose opinion is more valid? Honestly, this behavior is befuddling, hostile and most important of all fallacious since it's nothing but a thinly veiled ad hominem. Just look at how Orionfalls is using it, he's not making an argument in his post just an accusation. How on earth is that useful to any discussion?

 

[psrock]

I have to give credit for such an open discussion. Hopefully , we keep this up.
EviLore , What you went through the last few months was a coup. The only advice I can give you, and I see you are doing it, is to always communicate with your community. People have a tendency to freak out when they don't know whats going on, and others are feeding them BS.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

This forum wasn't far left though, it wasn't even left. The loud voices that were dominating this forum that had the support of the mods were hardcore Clinton loyalists that were constantly calling actual leftists all kinds of names, from delusional to even racist and sexist (the last two specifically against Sanders supporters).

A lot of posters itt are talking about authoritarian left but most of these people weren't left at all. The neoliberal ideology which the DNC leadership is a fine example of and is economically hardcore rightwing has co-opted "leftist" identity politics to mask itself as centrist or even left. Hillary fucking Clinton wasn't left, I will never stop repeating this until the end of time, the war-monger that destroyed Libya that now has a slave trade doesn't really care about social issues or minority rights, she only cares about these issues as long as they can bring her votes and can distract the population enough to continue with the neoliberal pillaging of the West. The same applies to the rest of corporate Democrats and it's the same strategy Republican politicians have perfected for decades now but from the other extreme, they supposedly care about immigration, abortions, gay marriage and so on, bullshit they care, it's all an act even they probably have believed until, you know, it happens to them and then you have a Dick Cheney situation whose daughter is openly gay.

This forum was EXTREMELY far left don’t be disingenuous...

 

[Monocle]

When people label empathy and decency as militancy. Oh, the joy of words.

 

[IamDodongo]

First time checking GAF in a long time, and I'm disappointed that this is the first thread I see.

I never saw militancy from the trans community, just people asking that they be treated with basic respect.

 

[Platinumstorm]

Evillore brings up a pretty solid point about "tribalism". "Political tribalism" was actually the word of the year for Geoff Nunberg of NPR. The word itself, as he admitted here, has those undertones that create discomfort. We're very unwilling to see things through another perspective, and we're very much inclined to just get information through headline scanning today, or, what seems to be a conservative favorite, memes from social feeds [that generally aren't even close to true].

To pretend that there won't be a demand to erase everything President Trump has done in 2020 would be foolish. We've literally classified each other as evil, tribal, or without sense, and we show little to no respect for the other side.


I'm extrapolating this to the larger picture, rather than staying within the boundaries of whatever discussions on trans/third gender/similar discussions were reliant on, because that surely wasn't the only militant topic; but one of the big discussions was that Trump voters were racist, and frankly, it gained enough traction through the media even through today.

I made an argument for a "New New Deal" on many fronts to support both rural communities and urban communities. The "forgotten people" phrase is probably true. I argued for this significantly. I argued that the economic anxiety, which others, including data analysis authors, simply wrote off at racism, was real. Early today a CNN article showed the distribution of the economic gains in the stock market rally; with a very handy chart located here.

When you look at that chart, it's pretty hard to imagine how economic anxiety doesn't exist in the areas that voted for Trump. I'm not going to dig deeper than that, because this is focused on tribalism. When I would propose "NND" investments, people would say the rural communities should die off, that miners should loser their heathcare coverage because they voted against Clinton, that I was a racist for suggesting that economic anxiety exists. It's this weird all-or-die mentality that exists on both sides right now in the US. Some of my friends in real life even questioned if I was actually a liberal based on my devil's advocate discussions on Trump voters.

We decide where we want to live based on the politics of the area. People don't want to marry someone of the opposite political spectrum. There was information suggesting Thanksgiving gatherings were shorter due to political divides within the family.

The bonds of political tribes are stronger than country, countrymen, and seemingly family, and that bodes ill for the U.S. That's what Neogaf channeled to an extreme degree. Break that cycle.

 

[Astral Dog]

Because they are a group of people that were (are) treated like subhuman shit, maybe they were a bit outspoken on a forum like GAF, but surely you can pass a few words considering all of them are treated in real life

 

[Kotzen Ducha]

When people label empathy and decency as militancy. Oh, the joy of words.

I didn't consider blackGAF or transGAF to be empathetic towards others. You were either perfectly in line with their views on every little nuanced topic or you were a BIGOT guilty of WRONGTHINK. I'm a lifelong democrat who has voted in favor of progressive social issues and even I feel like the left is eating itself to disastrous results. Radical progressivism is a bad long-term strategy and it was bad for the GAF community.

 

[God Enel]

I remember the old days, any question or disagreement lead to a ban, so the mods were part of the problem. Anytime I see the equivalent of "You don't 100% agree with me? You are racist/phobic!" and it makes me roll my eyes. Like the OP, I am a lifetime liberal, but the militant side of those discussions is so far to the left, they fell off a cliff and accuse anyone more moderate of being Nazis.

I totally agree with you. Same is going on at the new place and it really is a chore to be in the off topic there. So I'm more and more reverting back to gaf. If you're not their opinion you're a fucking nazi/victim blaming moron what isn't the case at all. Too far right is bad..too far left is the same thing (or worse sometimes)

 

[davepoobond]

no good really comes from discussing it. they dont want to hear ignorant shit, and the ones saying it will just get boxed in or eventually banned because they dig a deep hole because they said something wrong or implied something when they didnt actually mean to (or maybe they did).

its also hard to "argue" with anyone in good faith because people can say they are/aren't something and there's no way to tell. just like most hot button things.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

I find it weird that EviLore cited Rocket Number 22 as a good example of how to behave when in reading a lot of threads, they are among the most hostile.

That poster unprovoked straight up called me a racial pejorative and moderation did nothing about it. Even right leaning posters agreed it was a racist insult
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/what-are-your-political-leanings.1457755/page-24#post-253065016

so then this "good example" poster disingenuously hides behind their identity as an austrilian girl saying "I'm not american, how would I know thats a slur?" but then how and why would this non-american have anything to say about black americans and downplay Trump tweeting racist propaganda with completely made up stats and say "the real stats aren't much better"? After calling posters racial insults like boy and alt right insults like "soy boy", and saying that their favorite number is a common white supremacist symbol, 88, how much benefit of the doubt can really be given?

Really, for that poster to be praised as a good example says a lot of the kind of posters that are wanted here.

And that's fine. It's Evilore's forum and he can curate and praise whatever kind of posters he wants to here.

But the fact that this poster is still here and praised as a good example makes this post about not being more tolerant of racism, homophobia, sexism or transphobia laughable

As Orionfalls says we are more open but it doesn't mean we are any more tolerant of homophobic, racist, sexist, or transphobic views.

yeah, sure. I'll log back out now and leave you guys to this community you've been curating as it clearly isn't for me

 

[Mohonky]

First time checking GAF in a long time, and I'm disappointed that this is the first thread I see.

I never saw militancy from the trans community, just people asking that they be treated with basic respect.

I think you'll find the general concensus in this thread is people disagreeing with OP with regard to the transgender community being militant.

The majority of threads has largely moved onto discussing what people believe were the issues at hand, and no one is really talking about it being the transgender community at all.

 

[shpankey]

I think we would do well to stop trying to villianize each other in order to try and be the victor in an argument. Just speaking in general here.

Also sad to see members leave so quickly by reading a single post and determining all of gaf is now this one persons view. I can’t even believe they truly believe that. The fact its had to be explained three time now makes me think they are being obtuse on purpose to try and making such silly sweeping generalizations carry more weight.

 

[Moneal]

I think we would do well to stop trying to villianize each other in order to try and be the victor in an argument. Just speaking in general here.

Also sad to see members leave so quickly by reading a single post and determining all of gaf is now this one persons view. I can’t even believe they truly believe that. The fact its had to be explained three time now makes me think they are being obtuse on purpose to try and making such silly sweeping generalizations carry more weight.

I would guess someone over at the other forum told their buddies about the terrible thread and the ones that still have accounts are coming to bash how bad we are over here.

 

[The Mule]

It wasn't specifically the trans-community that was "militant". It was/is GAF as a whole.

 

[shpankey]

I would guess someone over at the other forum told their buddies about the terrible thread and the ones that still have accounts are coming to bash how bad we are over here.

Scary thought but I agree it’s pretty suspicious to all of a sudden keep seeing “my first post back... shock horror I’m OUT” when it’s clear they haven’t even bothered really reading.

There’s some pretty amazing arguments going on right now from really genuine positions. There’s other stuff too but you’re always going to get the fringe argument stuff too, it goes w the territory.

 

[Monocle]

I didn't consider blackGAF or transGAF to be empathetic towards others. You were either perfectly in line with their views on every little nuanced topic or you were a BIGOT guilty of WRONGTHINK. I'm a lifelong democrat who has voted in favor of progressive social issues and even I feel like the left is eating itself to disastrous results. Radical progressivism is a bad long-term strategy and it was bad for the GAF community.

Radical progressivism, as you call it, is a proportional and necessary corrective for a systemic imbalance in society that relegates minorities of all kinds, especially those most visibly at odds with Caucasian heteronormativity, at the very bottom of the social totem, the better to muffle their voices as they protest their inhuman treatment; namely the discrimination and abuse that is made possible by this very silencing.

How can a group change people's false perception that their existence is a threat and an abnormality if they are constantly shut down by those with the loudest voices, which is to say the most privileged in society—that is, people who have the least need to challenge the status quo, since their place within it is secure?

When you used a charged term like "radical progressivism," what you're really doing is disparaging minorities' urgent attempts to be heard. You're smearing their reasonable and valid efforts to make it just that little bit harder to spit on their being and use them as scapegoats for all manner of social ills, efforts that are a reaction to their unjustified victimization.

 

[David___]

As Orionfalls says we are more open but it doesn't mean we are any more tolerant of homophobic, racist, sexist, or transphobic views.

I mean, you can say this all you want but when this

Its reasonable because you are trying so hard to not answer.

You must really hate the white man, he keeping you down boy?

goes unpunished and Evilore cites this poster as a good example it doesn't inspire much confidence

 

[shpankey]

I mean, you can say this all you want but when this

goes unpunished and Evilore cites this poster as a good example it doesn't inspire much confidence

Can someone link to the posts you’re talking about? It’s hard to follow. Also, you’re assuming EL is signing off on 100 percent of this persons every comment? Why? He could of read a few posts and been impressed but not seen a million others. Why are you making such an assumption like this?