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Streamer mistreats his wife and his son while streaming live.

Why is that a weird statement? That's quite an extrapolation from what I actually said.

Not at all, you literally said women shouldn't be subjected to violence, because they are weaker. This is a bit of a weird, almost sexist blanket statement if you don't elaborate further, and completely disregards women who are in professions, or sports, that put them in possibly violent situations, be it from a man or another woman.
And even if you meant "shouldn't be subjected to violence, from a man" , wouldn't make it much better really, unless you assume that in every possible interaction, a man will be physically superior to a woman; which is ofcourse sexist.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I have another question for you. Do you consider it physical violence to throw something at another person while angry?
That depends on the something. What if I throw you a kiss or a paper plane with a heart drawn on it? I'll tell you what I consider violence, a form of violence is to neglect and ignore your family's needs. So, he was egging her on to reach that tipping point by doing that to play a video game and she reacted in, yes, a type of violence, one however that did not warrant her getting arrested with common assault as he did. In the end, he brought it on himself. He was being a dipshit, she was trying to take care of a family, he preferred to play video games. You can claim that a pregnant woman should behave like a robot and not have emotions and outbursts when mistreated to this degree, I can claim she was justified in her outburst which was in fact rather mild because family is above pretty much everything, never mind a dumb video game you already play for 8 hours a day, and in her case sitting and caring for 2 children and one in her womb she upheld that standard and he failed to do the same. I do not see her crossing a line in the video, she did not actually harm him in any way, he retaliated to her justified outburst that he caused with actually hitting her, crossing a ton of lines at once. Murder and rape are also violence, I won't equate them to anything seen here by generalizing the dictionary word to ask a dumb question. If the roles were reversed, the same would apply to the man. His mild outburst would be justified over her shitty behavior, her hitting him in return would just make her position worse. There's your equality. But the roles were not reversed, it is what it is, a sad excuse of a man hitting his pregnant wife because she dared demand attention, not for her selfish lazy ass self, but for the family she worked so hard for (kids don't grow themselves), over a video game.
 
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Foxbat

Banned
She tried to hit the guy with something.

Now I have two questions for you:



and a new one:

Does a slap not count as violence if the slapper tries but misses?

Ok.

Question 1. It is not ok to throw something at someone if they're angry.

Question 2. It's still violence.

My question for you. Did she actually throw it at him, or the pc?

Second question. Should she have been arrested too for throwing cardboard?
 
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Racer!

Member
So that's a No then. You didn't see her attack him or actually hit him with anything. You're just assuming then?

Showed my wife this thread, and she says she's between you and me...

I got the better deal.

Second video shows her physical attack.
 
Of course she deserved a reaction in that situation. If you throw things at me, youre going to get a response back. Same goes for defending youreself. When I say violence is never ok, I mean initiating it.
Ok. That settles it. Thanks for making it clear once again. If a woman throws a cardboard box at you, you get to hit her in the face.

This is what some of you others are defending. Abuse.

And of course his wife agrees with him. Guess what happens if she don't?

As adamant as you've been at defending the guy's abuse, I truly believe you've done similar things.
 

Zog

Banned
Ok.

Question 1. It is not ok to throw something at someone if they're angry.

Question 2. It's still violence.

My question for you. Did she actually throw it at him, or the pc?

Second question. Should she have been arrested too for throwing cardboard?

I would say she threw it at him.

Here's where I watched it:

the video starts with her throwing unknown things at him which he is dodging.
 
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Foxbat

Banned
That depends on the something. What if I throw you a kiss or a paper plane with a heart drawn on it? I'll tell you what I consider violence, a form of violence is to neglect and ignore your family's needs. So, he was egging her on to reach that tipping point by doing that to play a video game and she reacted in, yes, a type of violence, one however that did not warrant her getting arrested with common assault as he did. In the end, he brought it on himself. He was being a dipshit, she was trying to take care of a family, he preferred to play video games. You can claim that a pregnant woman should behave like a robot and not have emotions and outbursts when mistreated to this degree, I can claim she was justified in her outburst which was in fact rather mild because family is above pretty much everything, never mind a dumb video game you already play for 8 hours a day, and in her case sitting and caring for 2 children and one in her womb she upheld that standard and he failed to do the same. I do not see her crossing a line in the video, she did not actually harm him in any way, he retaliated to her justified outburst that he caused with actually hitting her, crossing a ton of lines at once. Murder and rape are also violence, I won't equate them to anything seen here by generalizing the dictionary word to ask a dumb question. If the roles were reversed, the same would apply to the man. His mild outburst would be justified over her shitty behavior, her hitting him in return would just make her position worse. There's your equality. But the roles were not reversed, it is what it is, a sad excuse of a man hitting his pregnant wife because she dared demand attention, not for her selfish lazy ass self, but for the family she worked so hard for (kids don't grow themselves), over a video game.

They're not going to get it. They're too busy exclaiming.

"She threw cardboard!!!! She deserved to be punished!!"
 

Racer!

Member
Ok. That settles it. Thanks for making it clear once again. If a woman throws a cardboard box at you, you get to hit her in the face.

This is what some of you others are defending. Abuse.

And of course his wife agrees with him. Guess what happens if she don't?

As adamant as you've been at defending the guy's abuse, I truly believe you've done similar things.

If a woman hits me, she MAY be hit back with equal force, no question about it. Would I do something represents ANY risks to that baby, NEVER.

If thats a woman abuser, well so be it.
 
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Papa

Banned
Not at all, you literally said women shouldn't be subjected to violence, because they are weaker. This is a bit of a weird, almost sexist blanket statement if you don't elaborate further, and completely disregards women who are in professions, or sports, that put them in possibly violent situations, be it from a man or another woman.
And even if you meant "shouldn't be subjected to violence, from a man" , wouldn't make it much better really, unless you assume that in every possible interaction, a man will be physically superior to a woman; which is ofcourse sexist.

This is why these topics never go anywhere: people try their hardest to completely misrepresent their opponents' arguments. My point is about why the different social standards exist and that you can campaign for "equality", but you don't get to have your cake and eat it too. I have no interest in debating someone who will deny basic biology in order to present an ideological argument.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
They're not going to get it. They're too busy exclaiming.

"She threw cardboard!!!! She deserved to be punished!!"
Just expanding my ignore list now, already I clicked show ignored content once and saw the other pro-abuse guy has responded to me with more dumb shit, I won't do that mistake again, I'm done with those "questions" since he repeatedly ignores every point that completely blows away his bullshit to then go for the next lowest hanging fruit completely misrepresenting everyone else's posts as if the debate is starting anew while not acknowleding his statements were utterly defeated already. Like, half his posts are "so you're saying this" "so you're saying that" "so let me ask you about this other unrelated off the rails dumb shit you didn't even hint at without answering to anything of what you just said". No sir, I don't need you to take my posts through your malfunctioning translation, what I'm saying is right in my own posts.
 
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Foxbat

Banned
I would say she threw it at him.

You would say? Or there is substantial proof?

I would say I don't know, but there is no proof in the first video that she did. I would also say that he incurred no injury as a result. I would go even further to say that he indeed did strike his wife because it can be clearly heard, along with her reaction.
 

Zog

Banned
You would say? Or there is substantial proof?

I would say I don't know, but there is no proof in the first video that she did. I would also say that he incurred no injury as a result. I would go even further to say that he indeed did strike his wife because it can be clearly heard, along with her reaction.

I think it's clear that she threw several things at him (did you watch the video) and she threw the cardboard at him. You said that is what you would consider violence so how can you still excuse her behavior?
 

Racer!

Member
You would say? Or there is substantial proof?

I would say I don't know, but there is no proof in the first video that she did. I would also say that he incurred no injury as a result. I would go even further to say that he indeed did strike his wife because it can be clearly heard, along with her reaction.

So youre saying that you have engaged in a lengthy discussion about something that you havent seen?
 

Foxbat

Banned
Attack arguments, not people. Calling anyone a wife beater because you can't win an argument is weak and childish.
So youre saying that you have engaged in a lengthy discussion about something that you havent seen?

No. I'm saying that since I saw you're earlier comment about how the woman in the video "deserved to be put in her place" that it's clear that you support violence against women.

Good luck to your wife.... She gonna need it.
 

Racer!

Member
No. I'm saying that since I saw you're earlier comment about how the woman in the video "deserved to be put in her place" that it's clear that you support violence against women.

Good luck to your wife.... She gonna need it.

She absolutely deserved to be put in place. You NEVER initiate a physical attack on someone. If that slap was an appropriate response, I dont know as it was off camera. We are going to just disagree on this.
 
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Zog

Banned
So youre saying that you have engaged in a lengthy discussion about something that you havent seen?
It's true, he never saw the slap. If seeing the cardboard flying clsoe to the guys head isn't enough evidence that she threw it at him then how can a slap that is only heard be real, ya know for certain.
No. I'm saying that since I saw you're earlier comment about how the woman in the video "deserved to be put in her place" that it's clear that you support violence against women.

Good luck to your wife.... She gonna need it.
No you are saying that you didn't see her throw the cardboard at him so you can't be sure it happened. You didn't SEE the slap either so....
 
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Foxbat

Banned
I think it's clear that she threw several things at him (did you watch the video) and she threw the cardboard at him. You said that is what you would consider violence so how can you still excuse her behavior?

She threw the cardboard at him. He then threw it back at her. She should not have thrown it in the first place. If he felt that throwing it back at her wasn't enough, he should've left, called the police, locked the door, etc... bit no. He decided that striking her was the best course of action.

So answer this question.

Should she have been arrested for throwing cardboard at him?
 

Zog

Banned
She threw the cardboard at him. He then threw it back at her. She should not have thrown it in the first place. If he felt that throwing it back at her wasn't enough, he should've left, called the police, locked the door, etc... bit no. He decided that striking her was the best course of action.

So answer this question.

Should she have been arrested for throwing cardboard at him?

Yes, she should have been arrested and charged since she initiated the violence. They are both guilty of domestic violence.
 
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Foxbat

Banned
Yes, she should have been arrested and charged since she initiated the violence. They are both guilty of domestic violence.

What would they charge her with? The cardboard didn't actually hit him, and he incurred no apparent injury.
 
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LordPezix

Member
Everything happened off screen.

People whose privates lives are none of my business shall stay not being my business.

Best course of action here is to not make assumptions and let the appropriate law officials handle this.

And we are done.
 

Foxbat

Banned
Domestic Violence.

But the cardboard didn't actually hit him to cause injury.

I'm just stating that it wouldn't hold up. I can find no recorded case that has been prosecuted for throwing cardboard... and missing them.

No judge would sign the warrant, no DA would agree to prosecute, and no jury would render a guilty verdict.

He however did go to jail. A judge did sign that warrant, and the DA will prosecute him. I'd bet any amount of money too that if taken to trial, that the jury will find him guilty.

Just illustrating the difference between your world, and the actual world that we occupy.
 

Zog

Banned
But the cardboard didn't actually hit him to cause injury.

I'm just stating that it wouldn't hold up. I can find no recorded case that has been prosecuted for throwing cardboard... and missing them.

No judge would sign the warrant, no DA would agree to prosecute, and no jury would render a guilty verdict.

He however did go to jail. A judge did sign that warrant, and the DA will prosecute him. I'd bet any amount of money too that if taken to trial, that the jury will find him guilty.

Just illustrating the difference between your world, and the actual world that we occupy.

Well, you obviously know more about the courts and domestic violence than I do. I am fine with that.

I am happy that you admitted that she was also violent.
 

Foxbat

Banned
Domestic Violence.



Is it required that you hit your target before you can be charged with Domestic Violence? I don't know, I have never been in the situation.

So you've been having this discussion the whole time not knowing how the law works?

Law enforcement, and the DA saw the video. He was arrested, while she was not.

Do you think she paid them off or something? Is the police chief her uncle maybe?

If she committed a crime, they would prosecute... but they're not.
 

Deanington

Member
She absolutely deserved to be put in place. You NEVER initiate a physical attack on someone. If that slap was an appropriate response, I dont know as it was off camera. We are going to just disagree on this.

Put in place like a dog? How about get off the fucking game and see why your wife is spazing the fuck out? Wouldn't that be the most logical thing to do? Holy shit my wife is going crazy, why? Maybe I should find out? I know why. Obviously the dude in the video and some here don't though. If he was more aware of the situation this all could have been avoided. The same could be said for her too. Except he just took it to the next level that was un necessary.
 

Foxbat

Banned
Well, you obviously know more about the courts and domestic violence than I do. I am fine with that.

I am happy that you admitted that she was also violent.

I'm glad you're happy about that. No matter how hollow that victory is. Lol
 
This is why these topics never go anywhere: people try their hardest to completely misrepresent their opponents' arguments. My point is about why the different social standards exist and that you can campaign for "equality", but you don't get to have your cake and eat it too. I have no interest in debating someone who will deny basic biology in order to present an ideological argument.

Well that's really what you are doing here, I've never denied biology.
 

Papa

Banned
Unbelievable that some people are attempting to justify his actions. Disgraceful.

Please see:

Can anyone coming in here whining about how they just can't believe people are defending him and saying it's ok to hit women just get a grip? No one is doing that and you're only presenting it that way so that you can proclaim your own virtue without actually having to do any thinking.

What he did was very obviously wrong and he will justifiably be punished for it. What is happening in this thread is that people are discussing why and how something can get to this point so that we can better understand how to prevent it in future. What you are doing is slacktivism: making bold proclamations about how you just can't believe that in <current year> someone would hit a woman in order to make you feel better about yourself, not to help anyone who could potentially be involved in something like this.

This is a discussion board - it exists to discuss things. If you want a statement board, you know where to go.

You're adding nothing to the discussion and are actually detracting from it because you are misrepresenting arguments.
 

Foxbat

Banned
Well I took care of the 2 biggest ones. (At the same time I might add)

I'll leave the rest to you guys.

I'm out.
 

Zog

Banned
Well I took care of the 2 biggest ones. (At the same time I might add)

I'll leave the rest to you guys.

I'm out.
You took care of what? You told me that DV charges wouldn't stick against her because she missed her target. Wow, you sure told me!
 
Please see:



You're adding nothing to the discussion and are actually detracting from it because you are misrepresenting arguments.

It is depressing that things can get to that point, and yet remains astonishing that someone will lose control and hit their wife / partner over it. In many cases, this 'attempt to discover what led to it' is just a lame attempt at deflecting responsibility for domestic abuse.
 
More people are trying to justify her violent actions because she is pregnant and (according to some) shouldn't be expected to control herself.
No doubt she's an idiot as well, however as people often point out when it comes to men vs women sport, one sex is inherently far stronger than the other, and in most cases able to kill the other with their bare hands. This puts the onus of responsibility on men to walk away from violence should it come to that, as difficult as that may be for some.
 
You said that me saying women are the weaker sex is a blanket sexist statement. That is a denial of biology.
I never said that. I think I was pretty clear in mentioning the entire statement I was responding to, which was: "women shouldn't be subjected to violence, because they are weaker".
 

Papa

Banned
It is depressing that things can get to that point, and yet remains astonishing that someone will lose control and hit their wife / partner over it. In many cases, this 'attempt to discover what led to it' is just a lame attempt at deflecting responsibility for domestic abuse.
No doubt she's an idiot as well, however as people often point out when it comes to men vs women sport, one sex is inherently far stronger than the other, and in most cases able to kill the other with their bare hands. This puts the onus of responsibility on men to walk away from violence should it come to that, as difficult as that may be for some.

It's not a deflection of responsibility for domestic abuse. I haven't seen anyone say that he's not responsible for his actions or that he doesn't deserve to be punished. The most I have seen is people saying that she had contributory negligence for initiating it by throwing cardboard at him (I don't necessarily agree with this - just trying to steelman their arguments). The reason that I am focusing on the why is because evidently the "don't hit women" line isn't working, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing the same thing happening again and again and expecting a different outcome. This is not an isolated incident.

My view is that there are innate biological urges related to our evolutionary history that cause men to tend towards violence and that law and order are necessary concepts that we have socially constructed in civilised society to control and deter these urges. The reason the conversation went in this direction was because several pages back we had another user extolling the virtues of feminist equality as some kind of panacea. My point is that: a) men should not hit women because they are the weaker sex, and b) counter to the feminist poster's view, this is actually a form of inequality that I support. True equality would include holding men and women to the same social standards, but that doesn't work due to the biological reality that you just pointed to (men are stronger than women).

Yet we have people attempting to misconstrue that as advocating for violence against women. Utterly moronic.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I have been removed from the thread because I can't engage honestly and make up disingenuous claims as I have no real argument or intellect to converse in a clam and adult manner.
Lol so many wife beating advocates here. Might i suggest converting to Islam and moving to Saudi Arabia. Pretty sure wife beating is legal there.

I find it ironic how some folks on the internet have so much in common with hardline Muslims they are so afraid of letting in their countries. Sharia law this, sharia law that and yet their backward views on women are perfectly in line with Islamic views of women.
 

Deanington

Member
Lol so many wife beating advocates here. Might i suggest converting to Islam and moving to Saudi Arabia. Pretty sure wife beating is legal there.

I find it ironic how some folks on the internet have so much in common with hardline Muslims they are so afraid of letting in their countries. Sharia law this, sharia law that and yet their backward views on women are perfectly in line with Islamic views of women.

Oh god this going to be a whole other can of worms. Going back to lurk mode.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
This i
I haven't seen anyone say that he's not responsible for his actions or that he doesn't deserve to be punished. The most I have seen is people saying that she had contributory negligence for initiating it by throwing cardboard at him.
In this very page people have quoted others which do far more than what you claim is all you have seen. If you only see that, you're willingly blind to it and you show as much when you only go after posters who are leaning more towards accusing the guy than trying to find the woman's degree of the shared blame in the situation. Even if all you say about instincts and urges is true, that does not mean women should suddenly know their place and not get upset and retaliate against shitty behavior because some jerk is bound to cross the line and beat the shit out of them. Maybe there are instincts, maybe there are urges but civilized society, however much of a social construct it may be should not tolerate these behaviors and should in one voice condemn those who partake in them. Not that you have any evidence that "don't hit women" or "don't hit men" is integrated well enough in the average person's upbringing and schooling in order to claim it doesn't work to begin with. Same for the punishment, maybe that also needs to be more universal and more, well, punishing to work better as another deterrent.
 
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Zog

Banned
Lol so many wife beating advocates here. Might i suggest converting to Islam and moving to Saudi Arabia. Pretty sure wife beating is legal there.

I find it ironic how some folks on the internet have so much in common with hardline Muslims they are so afraid of letting in their countries. Sharia law this, sharia law that and yet their backward views on women are perfectly in line with Islamic views of women.

Do Islam say that women are weaker than men?
 

Zambayoshi

Member
Violence is a difficult issue to address. We have laws dealing with self-defence which in principle authorise a reasonable use of force in defence of one's person, another person, or one's property. Needless to say there have been countless cases dealing with determining what is 'reasonable force'. We see it all the time with police as well. In Australia and some other countries we have what is called the 'battered wife defence' where a charge of murder can be reduced to that of manslaughter (unintentional killing) due to a history of abuse.

What I would say to anyone is, regardless of the sex of your attacker, defend yourself in any way necessary for you to ensure your safety, using the minimum force to achieve this (sometimes harder to judge than it seems, if the attacker has a weapon, for example).

However, this does not include any form of retaliation.

Retaliation is more like 'an eye for an eye' where violence received justifies violence meted out. This is where MrDeadMoth went wrong. He had suffered verbal harassment and having stuff flung at him. He may have suffered other abuses for all we know. However, at the time he attacked his wife, there is nothing to suggest that he was defending himself from being physically attacked. I'm not saying that he definitely wasn't being attacked, but the video evidence suggests that he was the aggressor in that instance.

He lost control and committed an assault, and will most likely suffer the consequences. I read that he had already lost his job and is now facing criminal charges and has an AVO against him, which will most likely prevent him from returning to his home.
 

Papa

Banned
Misrepresenting who and what? Racer clearly said
"She totally deserved to be put in place."
Some are defending this.

Well if he meant that she needed to be put in her place by hitting her, I don't agree with that.

I do think there is an interesting discussion there though, namely that when a woman oversteps the bounds, what do we do about it? In male-male interactions, it often turns physical in spite of law and order. In male-female interactions, what social mechanism is there to let a woman know that she has overstepped the bounds? In my personal story earlier in the thread, I explained how my father's unwillingness to physically intervene with my violent mother allowed the behaviour to continue until I was old enough to deal with it myself. What would you suggest in my situation where my mother clearly needed to be "put in her place"?
 

Papa

Banned
Lol so many wife beating advocates here. Might i suggest converting to Islam and moving to Saudi Arabia. Pretty sure wife beating is legal there.

I find it ironic how some folks on the internet have so much in common with hardline Muslims they are so afraid of letting in their countries. Sharia law this, sharia law that and yet their backward views on women are perfectly in line with Islamic views of women.

First post back after the split and it's a complete misrepresentation.

JareBear: Remastered JareBear: Remastered I'm disappointed in you.
 
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