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[LuvOfThaGame]

I take it from this that you believe someone throwing things at you does not need to be put in place?

No. I do not believe that I should hit a woman in the face if she threw cardboard at me.
But you do, as you've stated.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Lol so many wife beating advocates here. Might i suggest converting to Islam and moving to Saudi Arabia. Pretty sure wife beating is legal there.

I find it ironic how some folks on the internet have so much in common with hardline Muslims they are so afraid of letting in their countries. Sharia law this, sharia law that and yet their backward views on women are perfectly in line with Islamic views of women.

What the fuck is this post even.

 

[Papa]

This i
In this very page people have quoted others which do far more than what you claim is all you have seen. If you only see that, you're willingly blind to it and you show as much when you only go after posters who are leaning more towards accusing the guy than trying to find the woman's degree of the shared blame in the situation. Even if all you say about instincts and urges is true, that does not mean women should suddenly know their place and not get upset and retaliate against shitty behavior because some jerk is bound to cross the line and beat the shit out of them. Maybe there are instincts, maybe there are urges but civilized society, however much of a social construct it may be should not tolerate these behaviors and should in one voice condemn those who partake in them. Not that you have any evidence that "don't hit women" or "don't hit men" is integrated well enough in the average person's upbringing and schooling in order to claim it doesn't work to begin with. Same for the punishment, maybe that also needs to be more universal and more, well, punishing to work better as another deterrent.

Quote specific posts that you have a problem with and I'll work with you. You can't just say "well maybe you're right about this but I'm going to ignore that and go right back to strawmanning you". That's dishonest.

 

[Alexios]

"well maybe you're right about this but I'm going to ignore that and go right back to strawmanning you"

Except nothing in the quote resembles this. And I won't requote, I've ignored them since, I have seen the quotes prior, they have been pointed out to you, you're the one being dishonest and trying super hard to interpret them in a different way than the to everyone else obvious one and pretend they don't exist or that you haven't seen them in a thread you so closely follow. You're the one "strawmanning", flimsily too.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

It's not a deflection of responsibility for domestic abuse. I haven't seen anyone say that he's not responsible for his actions or that he doesn't deserve to be punished. The most I have seen is people saying that she had contributory negligence for initiating it by throwing cardboard at him (I don't necessarily agree with this - just trying to steelman their arguments). The reason that I am focusing on the why is because evidently the "don't hit women" line isn't working, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing the same thing happening again and again and expecting a different outcome. This is not an isolated incident.

My view is that there are innate biological urges related to our evolutionary history that cause men to tend towards violence and that law and order are necessary concepts that we have socially constructed in civilised society to control and deter these urges. The reason the conversation went in this direction was because several pages back we had another user extolling the virtues of feminist equality as some kind of panacea. My point is that: a) men should not hit women because they are the weaker sex, and b) counter to the feminist poster's view, this is actually a form of inequality that I support. True equality would include holding men and women to the same social standards, but that doesn't work due to the biological reality that you just pointed to (men are stronger than women).

Yet we have people attempting to misconstrue that as advocating for violence against women. Utterly moronic.

I have to confess, I haven't read all the pages of the thread. And I agree with what you say for the most part. However, I do believe a big part of the problem is that despite some people not outright saying she asked for it or something along those lines, there is that underlying sentiment. How do you overcome that sentiment? Well, I don't know. It's a big cultural change, and certainly not a quick fix, or 'just don't do it' as you put it. As is the case with most things, probably comes down to proper upbringing and education.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

Well if he meant that she needed to be put in her place by hitting her, I don't agree with that.

I do think there is an interesting discussion there though, namely that when a woman oversteps the bounds, what do we do about it? In male-male interactions, it often turns physical in spite of law and order. In male-female interactions, what social mechanism is there to let a woman know that she has overstepped the bounds? In my personal story earlier in the thread, I explained how my father's unwillingness to physically intervene with my violent mother allowed the behaviour to continue until I was old enough to deal with it myself. What would you suggest in my situation where my mother clearly needed to be "put in her place"?

That's exactly what he's stated.

Your dad should have taken himself and you away from that situation, if your mother was abusive. Beating her up would solve nothing except more violence in the home.

 

[Zog]

No. I do not believe that I should hit a woman in the face if she threw cardboard at me.
But you do, as you've stated.

He asked: I take it from this that you believe someone throwing things at you does not need to be put in place?

He didn't say anything about hitting someone on the face.

 

[Papa]

Except that's not what I said at all. And I won't requote, I've ignored them since, I have seen the quotes prior, they have been pointed out to you, you're the one being dishonest and trying super hard to interpret them in a different way than the to everyone else obvious one and pretend they don't exist. You're the one "strawmanning".

I've noticed that when people want to get passive aggressive, they will start responding to without quoting. Hilarious

I don't know which posts you are referring to specifically. I've seen that one questionable post by Racer! saying that she needed to be put in her place, but I would like him to clarify that before I crucify him. I haven't seen any explicitly saying that the violence against her was right and definitely not enough to justify you framing your indignant arguments around some hypothetical enormous presence of wife bashing advocates.

 

[Zog]

I have to confess, I haven't read all the pages of the thread. And I agree with what you say for the most part. However, I do believe a big part of the problem is that despite some people not outright saying she asked for it or something along those lines, there is that underlying sentiment. How do you overcome that sentiment? Well, I don't know. It's a big cultural change, and certainly not a quick fix, or 'just don't do it' as you put it. As is the case with most things, probably comes down to proper upbringing and education.

You are building your argument on your perception instead of what people have actually said.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

He asked: I take it from this that you believe someone throwing things at you does not need to be put in place?

He didn't say anything about hitting someone on the face.

He's already made it clear what "put in place" means, but you go right ahead keep on backing up his wonderful character traits as you must share the same beliefs by doing so.

 

[Papa]

That's exactly what he's stated.

Your dad should have taken himself and you away from that situation, if your mother was abusive. Beating her up would solve nothing except more violence in the home.

Take me where?

I'm not talking about beating her up. The one time he intervened to pull her off, she played the victim and threatened to call the police on him. What social mechanism is there to stop her in the heat of the moment?

 

[Zog]

He's already made it clear what "put in place" means, but you go right ahead keep on backing up his wonderful character traits as you must share the same beliefs by doing so.

You are avoiding the question and that's interesting.

 

[Racer!]

Well if he meant that she needed to be put in her place by hitting her, I don't agree with that.

I do think there is an interesting discussion there though, namely that when a woman oversteps the bounds, what do we do about it? In male-male interactions, it often turns physical in spite of law and order. In male-female interactions, what social mechanism is there to let a woman know that she has overstepped the bounds? In my personal story earlier in the thread, I explained how my father's unwillingness to physically intervene with my violent mother allowed the behaviour to continue until I was old enough to deal with it myself. What would you suggest in my situation where my mother clearly needed to be "put in her place"?

What is hitting though. Because when you are throwing things you are hitting, and without control of where its gonna hit.

Was the response proportional, I dont know. Its off camera and I dont know how far away the slap took place. She clearly pushed at him beforehand (or dodged something else being thrown), so if he pushed her back to get her off him, it could have been even worse and caused damage to the baby or something.

Thing is, when you decide to get physical things can get out of control. Thats why I think the one initiating violence carries a special responsibility.

Around here, thinking this is being a woman abuser it seems.

Edit:

Where are the mods though? I`ve been called wife beater/abuser and been compared to Elliot Rodgers several times.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

Take me where?

I'm not talking about beating her up. The one time he intervened to pull her off, she played the victim and threatened to call the police on him. What social mechanism is there to stop her in the heat of the moment?

Anywhere but at the house with the abusive parent. I would for my daughter if her mom abused her.

 

[Wunray]

If you want to see the real nastiness, take a read through this thread. There's actually a couple of people defending the guy.

Fuck who ever is defending this trash person.

 

[Papa]

I have to confess, I haven't read all the pages of the thread. And I agree with what you say for the most part. However, I do believe a big part of the problem is that despite some people not outright saying she asked for it or something along those lines, there is that underlying sentiment. How do you overcome that sentiment? Well, I don't know. It's a big cultural change, and certainly not a quick fix, or 'just don't do it' as you put it. As is the case with most things, probably comes down to proper upbringing and education.

As far as I can tell, that underlying sentiment is confirmation bias rearing its ugly head again. People badly want to believe that they're arguing with wife bashing advocates because it allows them to just ignore or misrepresent their arguments. It has happened throughout the thread, so I can see how someone coming in at the end and seeing all the handwringing posts about wife bashing advocates could get that impression.

 

[Papa]

Anywhere but at the house with the abusive parent. I would for my daughter if her mom abused her.

I don't know if you've ever been in a DV situation, but it's not that simple, especially when no men's shelters exist and men are conditioned to be stoic.

Before some idiot feminist comes in saying that feminism is a cure for that too, not it isn't, and get lost with your proselytising.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

You are building your argument on your perception instead of what people have actually said.

'In both videos she clearly started it. '

'From the footage the girl is totally hysteric... I don't get why people blame the guy who asked like 50 times "please leave me alone". '

'she started and continued physical violence. '

'She clearly, CLEARLY didn't wanted to leave the guy alone, stop putting woman on a fucking pedestal ffs. '

'there was just a story posted today about the guy who was nearly suffocated by his girl by sitting on his face after she hit him with fists and objects, that is a perfectly reasonable time to hit a woman. '

From the first page alone. Very little perception required in these cases.

 

[Papa]

Fuck who ever is defending this trash person.

Hey dude, this is a discussion board. I think you're looking for a statement board, which can be found here: https://www.resetera.com/.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

I've noticed that when people want to get passive aggressive, they will start responding to without quoting. Hilarious

I don't know which posts you are referring to specifically. I've seen that one questionable post by Racer! saying that she needed to be put in her place, but I would like him to clarify that before I crucify him. I haven't seen any explicitly saying that the violence against her was right and definitely not enough to justify you framing your indignant arguments around some hypothetical enormous presence of wife bashing advocates.

You are avoiding the question and that's interesting.

Maybe he needed to say it louder for the people in the back.
I called him out on his post and he stood by it completely.
Read what I specifically asked and read his response. He can't outright say 'beat her ass', but says what he can to not get banned. He is at it again above.
https://neogaf.com/threads/streamer...n-while-streaming-live.1469299/post-253640762

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

As far as I can tell, that underlying sentiment is confirmation bias rearing its ugly head again. People badly want to believe that they're arguing with wife bashing advocates because it allows them to just ignore or misrepresent their arguments. It has happened throughout the thread, so I can see how someone coming in at the end and seeing all the handwringing posts about wife bashing advocates could get that impression.

I just quoted a few examples of people literally saying 'she started it' from the first page of the thread. I don't think it's unfair to suggest that some people on this thread do feel that way.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

Hey dude, this is a discussion board. I think you're looking for a statement board, which can be found here: https://www.resetera.com/.

Hey, it's the first time I've outright agreed with one of their social issue threads.

 

[Racer!]

No. I do not believe that I should hit a woman in the face if she threw cardboard at me.
But you do, as you've stated.

Ok fair enough. Is this some special treatment you reserve for women, or does this apply to a guy throwing things at you also? Again, was the slap proportional to what she threw, neither of us know.

We do know she assaulted him physically first though. (Of course anything could have happened beforehand, in which case its impossible to tell)

 

[JORMBO]

Hey, it's the first time I've outright agreed with one of their social issue threads.

Same.

 

[Papa]

I just quoted a few examples of people literally saying 'she started it' from the first page of the thread. I don't think it's unfair to suggest that some people on this thread do feel that way.

'In both videos she clearly started it. ' - Neither video shows how it started.

'From the footage the girl is totally hysteric... I don't get why people blame the guy who asked like 50 times "please leave me alone". ' - This one is wrong, I agree with you.

'she started and continued physical violence. ' - Factually correct, but it was not even close to the same magnitude as what he did.

'She clearly, CLEARLY didn't wanted to leave the guy alone, stop putting woman on a fucking pedestal ffs. ' - Questionable, but no clear stance on his violence.

'there was just a story posted today about the guy who was nearly suffocated by his girl by sitting on his face after she hit him with fists and objects, that is a perfectly reasonable time to hit a woman. ' - Do you not think it's appropriate to hit a woman who is attempting to suffocate you?

You're right, there are some people who are clearly siding with him, but I think that they are being unfairly used to mischaracterise other posters like myself.

 

[Zog]

'In both videos she clearly started it. '

'From the footage the girl is totally hysteric... I don't get why people blame the guy who asked like 50 times "please leave me alone". '

'she started and continued physical violence. '

'She clearly, CLEARLY didn't wanted to leave the guy alone, stop putting woman on a fucking pedestal ffs. '

'there was just a story posted today about the guy who was nearly suffocated by his girl by sitting on his face after she hit him with fists and objects, that is a perfectly reasonable time to hit a woman. '

From the first page alone. Very little perception required in these cases.

Where's the part where someone said 'she asked for it'?

 

[Papa]

Hey, it's the first time I've outright agreed with one of their social issue threads.

If their stance is that he shouldn't have hit her, then I agree too, but I suspect that the underlying reasons (i.e. the why that I have been attempting to address) are different.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

Ok fair enough. Is this some special treatment you reserve for women, or does this apply to a guy throwing things at you also? Again, was the slap proportional to what she threw, neither of us know.

Not going to hit my friend in the face if he threw cardboard at me either. I'm not a barbarian and don't need to prove my manhood on some petty shit.

 

[Racer!]

Not going to hit my friend in the face if he threw cardboard at me either. I'm not a barbarian and don't need to prove my manhood on some pretty shit.

Good for you, because thats the best way to behave. However, I am still not going to judge a proportional physical response to that kind of behaviour.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

'In both videos she clearly started it. ' - Neither video shows how it started.

'From the footage the girl is totally hysteric... I don't get why people blame the guy who asked like 50 times "please leave me alone". ' - This one is wrong, I agree with you.

'she started and continued physical violence. ' - Factually correct, but it was not even close to the same magnitude as what he did.

'She clearly, CLEARLY didn't wanted to leave the guy alone, stop putting woman on a fucking pedestal ffs. ' - Questionable, but no clear stance on his violence.

'there was just a story posted today about the guy who was nearly suffocated by his girl by sitting on his face after she hit him with fists and objects, that is a perfectly reasonable time to hit a woman. ' - Do you not think it's appropriate to hit a woman who is attempting to suffocate you?

You're right, there are some people who are clearly siding with him, but I think that they are being unfairly used to mischaracterise other posters like myself.

I'm not attempting to mischaracterise you, or anyone for that matter (can't speak for others on the thread). I'm merely stating that there are some people here who are defending his actions, some rather blatantly tbh.

 

[Papa]

I'm not attempting to mischaracterise you, or anyone for that matter (can't speak for others on the thread). I'm merely stating that there are some people here who are defending his actions, some rather blatantly tbh.

So respond to the ones trying to discuss and explore rationally. What value does making yet another statement about how violence is wrong add?

 

[Zog]

I just quoted a few examples of people literally saying 'she started it' from the first page of the thread. I don't think it's unfair to suggest that some people on this thread do feel that way.

She did start it, that doesn't mean anyone is condoning her being slapped.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

Ok fair enough. Is this some special treatment you reserve for women, or does this apply to a guy throwing things at you also? Again, was the slap proportional to what she threw, neither of us know.

We do know she assaulted him physically first though. (Of course anything could have happened beforehand, in which case its impossible to tell)

I'm just quoting this again because you keep editing your shit as none of the rest if that was originally quoted.
Once again, just a weasel way to say she deserved to get hit. You're not clever.

 

[Scopa]

I've noticed that when people want to get passive aggressive, they will start responding to without quoting. Hilarious

Yeah, I’ve noticed this too and it’s always the same types, without fail. Pretty cowardly really.

 

[Papa]

She did start it, that doesn't mean anyone is condoning her being slapped.

She may have, but neither video shows the lead up and I would speculate that it's more likely that his unwillingness to eat dinner with his family is what kicked it off.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

She did start it, that doesn't mean anyone is condoning her being slapped.

Yes. There is someone condoning her being slapped. You are choosing to ignore that fact.

 

[Racer!]

I'm just quoting this again because you keep editing your shit as none of the rest if that was originally quoted.
Once again, just a weasel way to say she deserved to get hit. You're not clever.

There you go again with that name calling. Wife abuser, not clever etc. How old are you?

 

[Papa]

Yeah, I’ve noticed this too and it’s always the same types, without fail. Pretty cowardly really.

The same types that are so eager to use the ignore function, strawman arguments, and proclaim how virtuous they are. They contribute the least but have the highest opinion of themselves.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

There you go again with that name calling. Wife abuser, not clever etc. How old are you?

Old enough to know better...

 

[Alexios]

Yeah, I’ve noticed this too and it’s always the same types, without fail. Pretty cowardly really.

Funnily enough he conceded to the point that whole conversation was about. After spending a lot of time telling people and myself how no you're wrong nobody here defended it or victim blamed or whatever so please come up to our high level of discource instead of your low hanging strawmen, he conceded that hey, peopel actually did that, and in fact people who have been shitting the thread with that stance from page 1 to now, but apparently they were invisible until now that they were re-re-re-quoted.

The same types that are so eager to use the ignore function, strawman arguments, and proclaim how virtuous they are. They contribute the least but have the highest opinion of themselves.

As above, nice strawman, because I have to quote and requote and requote to see you're wrong about the thread you defended so hard.

Now you're telling people who have been arguing against that shit hey man just ignore them then! No, why did you ignore them to begin with and spent so much time telling those who didn't ignore them that they don't exist at all? If you're really all about finding the real causes of such shit, then how about arguing with those people to figure out what shit is in their brain which leads to them defending, condoning, and in turn potentially doing such actions themselves if they find it so great and applaud it instead of the people who have been arguing against those oh so lofty ideals of theirs? Too hard? Yeah because you're full of shit, and also on ignore now.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

Where's the part where someone said 'she asked for it'?

'Started it' / 'Asked for it' ... it's semantics at this point.

 

[Zog]

She may have, but neither video shows the lead up and I would speculate that it's more likely that his unwillingness to eat dinner with his family is what kicked it off.

We can't speculate about what happened before the video so let's not. From the video, she started the violence.

 

[Zog]

'Started it' / 'Asked for it' ... it's semantics at this point.

No, those are two separate statements. Saying she started it is simply stating a fact (based on what we see in the video) while saying she was asking for it is stating an opinion.

 

[Wunray]

Hey dude, this is a discussion board. I think you're looking for a statement board, which can be found here: https://www.resetera.com/.

Yeah I was having a discussion with the person I quoted, it was a very brief one.

 

[Racer!]

Old enough to know better...

Kudos for admitting that. Im not calling you a bad person for your opinions, id rather you did not with me.

The thing we disagree upon is what is proportional then. To be honest, I would rather get a slight slap, then get things thrown at me....which could go anywhere including my eyes.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

Kudos for admitting that. Im not calling you a bad person for your opinions, id rather you did not with me.

The thing we disagree upon is what is proportional then. To be honest, I would rather get a slight slap, then get things thrown at me....which could go anywhere including my eyes.

Lol. Nah. You misinterpret. Old enough to know better than to fall for your euphemisms.
Nah again. We disagree that you shouldn't hit a woman if you're not in a life threatening situation. You believe you should. Please don't try to equate any of our beliefs.

 

[Racer!]

Lol. Nah. You misinterpret. Old enough to know better than to fall for your euphemisms.
Nah again. We disagree that you shouldn't hit a woman if you're not in a life threatening situation. You believe you should. Please don't try to equate any of our beliefs.

I see youre using the word "not hit a woman" which tells me everything about your agenda. Youre a sexist.

I took you for being decent for a minute there...sorry about that.

 

[Papa]

Funnily enough he conceded to the point that whole conversation was about. After spending a lot of time telling people and myself how no you're wrong nobody here defended it or victim blamed or whatever so please come up to our high level of discource instead of your low hanging strawmen, he conceded that hey, peopel actually did that, and in fact people who have been shitting the thread with that stance from page 1 to now, but apparently they were invisible until now that they were re-re-re-quoted.


As above, nice strawman, because I have to quote and requote and requote to see you're wrong about the thread you defended so hard.

Now you're telling people who have been arguing against that shit hey man just ignore them then! No, why did you ignore them to begin with and spent so much time telling those who didn't ignore them that they don't exist at all? If you're really all about finding the real causes of such shit, then how about arguing with those people to figure out what shit is in their brain which leads to them defending, condoning, and in turn potentially doing such actions themselves if they find it so great and applaud it instead of the people who have been arguing against those oh so lofty ideals of theirs? Too hard? Yeah because you're full of shit, and also on ignore now.

Haha, I thought you were "out of this cesspool" on page 1. What happened? https://www.neogaf.com/threads/stre...-while-streaming-live.1469299/#post-253634886

Anyway, I didn't concede to you. Charlie quoted 1 that I agreed with, another that was questionable and requiring clarification, and 3 others that I disagreed with. My objection has been to you framing your arguments around a hypothetical significant number of wife bashing advocates and your strawmanning of other arguments that you find too difficult to contend with. Specifically, when you called me a wife bashing advocate, only to then turn around and say that maybe I was right in my reasoning but you disagreed with me regardless.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

No, those are two separate statements. Saying she started it is simply stating a fact (based on what we see in the video) while saying she was asking for it is stating an opinion.

Come on ... even a 5 year old understands what is meant by saying 'he / she started it'. It means, 'I am not to blame for what followed', or 'it was the instigator's fault.'

But I'm fairly certain you already know that.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

I see youre using the word "not hit a woman" which tells me everything about your agenda. Youre a sexist.

Rotfl.

 

[Zog]

Lol. Nah. You misinterpret. Old enough to know better than to fall for your euphemisms.
Nah again. We disagree that you shouldn't hit a woman if you're not in a life threatening situation. You believe you should. Please don't try to equate any of our beliefs.

What about a man?