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[THE:MILKMAN]

This is all true, though the Spiderman loading demo suggests the SSD thing isn't just speculation from the journo. 8k however, I feel like Cerny probably just stated something to the effect of 8k (limited games, upscaling...) and the journo just reported that as "supporting 8K".

I think if Wired did actually say anything that was blatantly out of line with what Cerny was saying, Sony would asked them to update the article with a correction.

Right. Sony have done it so they have full deniability! The price thing being tacked on later is also very suspect because why wouldn't such a direct quote about the very important price be included in the article in the first place?

 

[GTR R35_Supra RZ]

I agree that DF showed clear bias talking about PS5. Its simply because Rich Leadbetter is a die hard Xbox fan and its extremely hard for some so called "Journalists" to stay neutral prior to each console Gen.

but you know what... MS will reveal the next Xbox and it will have the exact feature set of PS5, at that time you will see DF gushing over those revolutionary "features"

Sony has faced similar attitude from media for ages, its not a new thing. they will be laughing as usual come 2027 when they sold over 100m consoles "again" and their competitor with all this media backing and imaginary "advance features, hidden GPUs and clouds of the world " will be struggling to crack 40m units.

DF can hmmmph, laugh, mock all they want, they just can prevent the inevitable

We all need to applaud this dude a prime example how a real elite console warrior looks like..I mean it's mind blowing, look at the thought process, sentence delivery, the punchlines.
Ma gawd, they recruited one of the best

 

[Aceofspades]

We all need to applaud this dude a prime example how a real elite console warrior looks like..I mean it's mind blowing, look at the thought process, sentence delivery, the punchlines.
Ma gawd, they recruited one of the best

Since you haven't replied to a single point I mentioned but instead mocked me, all I have to say is that Im just glad I entertained you enough to reply to me.

You can add your laughs and humphs to those of DF and again, you guys won't change the inevitable

 

[ethomaz]

I think from Mark Cerny's interview we have to be careful what we take from it. MrFox over at B3D helpfully pointed out that Mark isn't directly quoted stating anything for e.g 8K graphics, not releasing this year or even having a SSD.

The reporter states more than Mark.

He is directly asked with a question about SSD and he says yes with examples the beneficies of SSD that will come with PS5... he even says the devkit has a slower version of the SSD that will come with PS5.... What this Fox is smoking?

8k I agree looks obtuse and more like the console will support that resolution... not that games will render at that resolution... XB1 S suporta 4k but games are nowhere close tendered at that resolution.

He is clear it is not coming in 2019 but nothing says it won’t come in March 2020 for example.

 

[SonGoku]

Where’s your proof?

MY GUT! lol jk there is no proof of anything
Ok so we know 12GB (9GB usable) is the minimum requirement to run current gen games at 4k. Just 4 extra GB (16GB total) won't cut it for a proper next gen leap. We need at least 2x the X the closest number is 24GB, (20GB for games and 4GB for OS)

One year is not going to make much difference re the form factor and cooling solution.

Are you really implying they couldn't design a vapor chamber given the extra headroom to work with ($100)?
Vapor Chamber cooling its nothing new and has been used for years in the GPU space, Sony like MS hire people and companies for hardware designs.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

He is directly asked with a question about SSD and he says yes with examples the beneficies of SSD that will come with PS5... he even says the devkit has a slower version of the SSD that will come with PS5.... What this Fox is smoking?

8k I agree looks obtuse and more like the console will support that resolution... not that games will render at that resolution... XB1 S suporta 4k but games are nowhere close tendered at that resolution.

He is clear it is not coming in 2019 but nothing says it won’t come in March 2020 for example.

To be clear I'm not saying Cerny didn't say these things to the journalist. Just that he didn't quote key points. I don't think that is accidental.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

Nah. The X is basically a better all around console than the Pro.

How exactly is the X a copy of the Pro? "Same winner hardware engineer" doesn't make sense to me.

He said a copy of the PS4 and pro architecture _ single pool of gddr5 ram.
In Xone architecture the ram is split making it a lot harder for the devs to work with _ 8GB ddr3 and 64MB of much faster esram to compensate the sluggish ddr3 whenever the game needs.

 

[SonGoku]

Nah. The X is basically a better all around console than the Pro.

How exactly is the X a copy of the Pro? "Same winner hardware engineer" doesn't make sense to me.

I think he means its closer to the PS4 design philosophy (and by extension the Pro) than the original xbone

The X is better than the pro for 2 reasons only:

1. Waited a year longer to cook
2. $100 extra headroom for better cooling, 4 CUs and 4GB.

Given the same conditions there's no reason to think Sony couldn't pull the same. After all AMD was in charge of the APU, MS just designed the vapor chamber which is nothing new and has been used for years in GPUs (since the HD 3870)

I wish Xbox could go with Nvidia and Intel, then it would be really interesting as i think they're going to be close to each other and the spec wars are a bit boring nowadays.

It wouldn't really, Nvidia is really stingy when it comes to consoles, for the same budget they will deliver older/weaker tech than what AMD would offer
Intel is the same deal, will be lucky to get a 4 core i5 for the same budget

 

[Snake29]

Maybe it’s a typo and the 4TF is supposed to be 14TF. 12TF being the weak console would make more sense.

Makes no sense...i mean 12TF "weak". That same console would deliver the same performance as the "more powered consoles".

 

[Bogroll]

It wouldn't really, Nvidia is really stingy when it comes to consoles, for the same budget they will deliver older/weaker tech than what AMD would offer
Intel is the same deal, will be lucky to get a 4 core i5 for the same budget

Really, from what i recall they only made one home console GPU and that was the Xbox and that was meaty for its time.
P.s please don't mention the Switch as that's a hybrid.

 

[nowhat]

Really, from what i recall they only made one home console GPU and that was the Xbox

RSX in PS3?

 

[Bogroll]

RSX in PS3?

i never knew that, i take back what i said

 

[SonGoku]

Really, from what i recall they only made one home console GPU and that was the Xbox and that was meaty for its time.
P.s please don't mention the Switch as that's a hybrid.

Oh yes they could put meaty hardware in there but that would hemorrhage money for the console manufacturers, MS lost billions with the OG Xbox. Also the GC GPU was much more efficient and elegantly designed, not to mention cheaper.

The RSX was a piece of trash compared to the Xenos
Nvdia was cheap and gave the switch the X1 instead of the X2.

Nvdia is just not a good partner for consoles, they are too stingy
AMD on the other hand will custom design the best possible GPU they can offer for a set TDP, they also have a history of putting unreleased tech on consoles.

 

[Moneal]

What's even funnier about that quote, is that it isn't even hard to reason that Xbox WAS better in 2013, and is certainly better in 2019. Lol

so the ps4 was not more powerful than the xbox 1? lol.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Oh yes they could put meaty hardware in there but that would hemorrhage money for the console manufacturers, MS lost billions with the OG Xbox. Also the GC GPU was much more efficient and elegantly designed, not to mention cheaper.

The RSX was a piece of trash compared to the Xenos
Nvdia was cheap and gave the switch the X1 instead of the X2.

Nvdia is just not a good partner for consoles, they are too stingy
AMD on the other hand will custom design the best possible GPU they can offer for a set TDP, they also have a history of putting unreleased tech on consoles.

But now it’s an $11 billion business for them.

 

[SonGoku]

But now it’s an $11 billion business for them.

Where did you get that figure? what do you mean

 

[kevin_trinh]

Its must be great for anyone who in charge of the Xbox division these day. Some random Twitter guy said :"Xbox Next will be more powerful than PS5" base on the tale in his ass. All of the Xbox fanboy immediately believe and pray them.

 

[Kazekage1981]

i think the nextbox will be an average of 20%-30% better in overall performance (if rumors are true). Most third party developers go for the lowest common denominator anyway when it comes to game development. If PS5 is the lowest common denominator, then it is pretty damn powerful IMO. My concern with the nextbox is its DirectX12 API. It is close to 4 years old since windows 10 release. I hope they are making Directx12.5 or directx13.0, and implementing it in its new 'project santorini" and getting rid of legacy garbage and making their UWP easier, and streamlined so that game development is easier as well. I wouldn't be surprised if you could use your windows tablet, connect it/link it with the nextbox and so some cool things with it. Wouldn't it be cool for nextbox to connect it to hololens seamlessly for a full virtual reality experience?

Microsoft has a huge interest in its windows ecosystem and trying to make it ubiquitous as possible along with its azure/cloud services, and i am sure they are working on something really cool. Windows build in May along with E3 in summer is going to be big.

Since Phil Spencer is in charge, I am sure Microsoft has learned a lot from their previous mistakes I honestly dont think the nextbox will be anything like the xbox one release in 2013, which leads to one last problem:

Japan: Microsoft the easiest thing you can do to appeal to japan is to first get rid of that ugly barf green color scheme, change it to turqois or lead more towards blue and you are already on your way. Second, you must make anime cel shaded type games: JRPGs, fighting games, action games etc. and you will rise up. I think MS will be in a much better position then it supposed total fail/flop that it is in now. I highly doubt MS will be in the same level as Sony in Japan, but it will be decent.

 

[SonGoku]

Its must be great for anyone who in charge of the Xbox division these day. Some random Twitter guy said :"Xbox Next will be more powerful than PS5" base on the tale in his ass. All of the Xbox fanboy immediately believe and pray them.

You laugh but Tim Doge started as a Xbox groupie on twitter and now works for MS.

 

[Panajev2001a]

We all need to applaud this dude a prime example how a real elite console warrior looks like..I mean it's mind blowing, look at the thought process, sentence delivery, the punchlines.
Ma gawd, they recruited one of the best

Do not be jealous, you are still someone’s number one in terms of content : value .

 

[Panajev2001a]

RSX in PS3?

To be fair that was when KK rushed into nVidia’s offices when the other GPU was deemed not viable for launch, so close to it, that Jen S. looked in his pockets and said “well, I have this GPU laying about, it has several bugs which will make your developers’ life difficult, but you know... beggars cannot be choosers”...

 

[shark sandwich]

Japan: Microsoft the easiest thing you can do to appeal to japan is to first get rid of that ugly barf green color scheme, change it to turqois or lead more towards blue and you are already on your way. Second, you must make anime cel shaded type games: JRPGs, fighting games, action games etc. and you will rise up. I think MS will be in a much better position then it supposed total fail/flop that it is in now. I highly doubt MS will be in the same level as Sony in Japan, but it will be decent.

I think Japan is a lost cause. They did exactly this with Xbox 360, funded tons of great Japanes games and even funding 2 exclusive JRPGs from the new studio Mistwalker. It still flopped in Japan.

Japanese are xenophobic. They won’t buy an American console.

Remember when people were saying “OG Xbox is too big! Japanese people have small houses and they don’t want something that big!”

Then 360 launched with a smaller size, kickass Japanese gaming selection (arguably much better than PS3 for the first couple years)....and yet it still flopped. PS3 (nearly identical dimensions to OG Xbox) dominated.


Good news is that most Japanese games, even niche ones and JRPGs, tend to sell just as well or better in the West as they do in Japan. So MS doesn’t need to succeed in Japan in order to get strong Japanese game support.

 

[shark sandwich]

To be fair that was when KK rushed into nVidia’s offices when the other GPU was deemed not viable for launch, so close to it, that Jen S. looked in his pockets and said “well, I have this GPU laying about, it has several bugs which will make your developers’ life difficult, but you know... beggars cannot be choosers”...

LOL yeah it was definitely a last-minute “plan B”.

I remember when the rumors came out that Sony contracted Nvidia for *something*. Most people thought it was unrelated to PS3 because we all knew Cell would do the graphics. Sony’s president was questioned about it and said something like “that’s ridiculous, we don’t need Nvidia’s help.” Jon Stokes at Ars Technica speculated that it might be some kind of rasterization back-end.

Pretty shocking when it turned out to be a full-blown GPU, a cut-down 7900GT with its own separate pool of memory.

 

[SonGoku]

To be fair that was when KK rushed into nVidia’s offices when the other GPU was deemed not viable for launch, so close to it, that Jen S. looked in his pockets and said “well, I have this GPU laying about, it has several bugs which will make your developers’ life difficult, but you know... beggars cannot be choosers”...

You mean CKK?
Couldn't they offer a cut down 8800? Thing would had been a monster

 

[shark sandwich]

You mean CKK?
Couldn't they offer a cut down 8800? Thing would had been a monster

MAYBE if they had worked closely with Nvidia and planned it from the beginning.

8000 series came out in November 2006. PS3 was originally supposed to come out early 2006. I don’t think there’s any way it could’ve happened. Not to mention part of the reason 8800 was such a monster was it had a memory bus 3x as big as RSX.

But yeah that would’ve been one beast of a console. Fun to think about what could’ve been.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Its must be great for anyone who in charge of the Xbox division these day. Some random Twitter guy said :"Xbox Next will be more powerful than PS5" base on the tale in his ass. All of the Xbox fanboy immediately believe and pray them.

It's only great if it is 100% accurate. Otherwise it is a mismanaged expectation you have to deal with down the road.

 

[kevin_trinh]

It's only great if it is 100% accurate. Otherwise it is a mismanaged expectation you have to deal with down the road.

I mean this is what MS think about their fanboy

Spoiler

 

[Ar¢tos]

MY GUT! lol jk there is no proof of anything
Ok so we know 12GB (9GB usable) is the minimum requirement to run current gen games at 4k. Just 4 extra GB (16GB total) won't cut it for a proper next gen leap. We need at least 2x the X the closest number is 24GB, (20GB for games and 4GB for OS)

Are you really implying they couldn't design a vapor chamber given the extra headroom to work with ($100)?
Vapor Chamber cooling its nothing new and has been used for years in the GPU space, Sony like MS hire people and companies for hardware designs.

We don't. If you have fast memory, and a fast SSD drive to feed it there is absolutely no need for 20gb of RAM just for games at 4k, 16gb is more than enough.

 

[Panajev2001a]

LOL yeah it was definitely a last-minute “plan B”.

I remember when the rumors came out that Sony contracted Nvidia for *something*. Most people thought it was unrelated to PS3 because we all knew Cell would do the graphics. Sony’s president was questioned about it and said something like “that’s ridiculous, we don’t need Nvidia’s help.” Jon Stokes at Ars Technica speculated that it might be some kind of rasterization back-end.

Pretty shocking when it turned out to be a full-blown GPU, a cut-down 7900GT with its own separate pool of memory.

They had Toshiba doing the GPU, it was not CELL based... and the RSX has some interesting bugs too sigh :/...

 

[SonGoku]

MAYBE if they had worked closely with Nvidia and planned it from the beginning.

8000 series came out in November 2006. PS3 was originally supposed to come out early 2006. I don’t think there’s any way it could’ve happened. Not to mention part of the reason 8800 was such a monster was it had a memory bus 3x as big as RSX.

But yeah that would’ve been one beast of a console. Fun to think about what could’ve been.

8800 GT was only 2x the bus (128 vs 256) and that thing was a beast
Nvdia are way too stingy, they could have offered a cut down 8800 if they knew they were releasing in 2006.

We don't. If you have fast memory, and a fast SSD drive to feed it there is absolutely no need for 20gb of RAM just for games at 4k, 16gb is more than enough.

A SSD is nowhere near as fast as VRAM or even plain DRAM, there are things that won't be possible compared to 20GB if the game is designed around it.
We are talking next gen games at 4k, not current gen games.

 

[Fafalada]

The RSX was a piece of trash compared to the Xenos

The 1:1 comparisons put it around 15% slower on average, which sucked for a +1 year hardware sure, but in a world where simul-launch console came out with a 40% slower GPU, it doesn't sound all that bad in retrospect. Also considering that's still not even close to the biggest delta from two consoles competing largely in the same market - GC/XB ratio was way worse, though considering how much money MS lost there, it's hard to argue it was worth it.
Afaik the bigger issues with RSX were weird bugs/gotchas and just generally poor integration with the memory subsystem. Those were the limitations that really made it hard to get SPE potential out of the hardware.

 

[Potato Chip PRO]

Just give me the juicy NUMBERED STATS! Not words, STATS! E3 is almost close

 

[DeepEnigma]

Maybe it’s a typo and the 4TF is supposed to be 14TF. 12TF being the weak console would make more sense.

That would be a waste, lol.

 

[shark sandwich]

8800 GT was only 2x the bus (128 vs 256) and that thing was a beast
Nvdia are way too stingy, they could have offered a cut down 8800 if they knew they were releasing in 2006

8800 GT was a different chip (G92) that released a year later.

At launch it was 8800 GTX (384-bit) and 8800 GTS (320-bit).

 

[Snake29]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/xbox-game-studios-ot4-when-everyone-plays-we-all-win.94058/page-326

This thread is hilarious. Some hanging tied on some imgur post. Xbox fans love to believe everything anything that immediately benefits them.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/xbox-game-studios-ot4-when-everyone-plays-we-all-win.94058/page-326

This thread is hilarious. Some hanging tied on some imgur post. Xbox fans love to believe everything anything that immediately benefits them.

Holy hyperbole, batman.

*All brand fans* love to believe everything and anything that immediately benefits them.

 

[CrustyBritches]

The 2-tier Xbox release of Anaconda and Lockhart makes sense to me and I hope the rumor is true as I would rather have a couple 1080p systems for me and my sons than a single high-end console. Sharing systems is annoying.

The key is having the same CPU. Go look at benchmarks for the Vega 56/64 at 4k and then look at the same benchmarks for 1080p and you can see where you need to land to take a 4k/30fps game on Vega 56/64 power and scale it to 1080p.

Example: The Division 2 runs at 33fps on Vega 56 and 39fps on Vega 64 at 4k resolution. It only takes a GTX 970 to run 39fps at 1080p.

BF1: 61fps on Vega 64 at 4k. RX 470 pulls 86fps at 1080p.

 

[Snake29]

Holy hyperbole, batman.

*All brand fans* love to believe everything and anything that immediately benefits them.

Looking at that threads, that's what i call hyperbole. This is how they act like months right now. Every fart is a fact for them.

 

[Braldryr]

https://gamerant.com/next-xbox-more-powerful-than-ps5/



This has been spreading around the web like wild fire, and many are taking this guy at his word that he has access to insiders, he does have ties to the industry, and he has had a network since 2015, but he doesn't have many twitter followers, has only 721 subs on YouTube, and his name is basically nowhere. No one else has yet reported on these insiders.

It may be true, but since he's claiming that it's been let out of the bag I'd like to see someone else report on t or at least someone finding out if this guy is legit and has industry connections.

Link to his YouTube please

 

[prinz_valium]

I heard Xbox Anaconda might use 7nm+ EUV in 2020.
Sony aimed initially for 2019 with 7nm, but pushed back to 2020 and will still use the same node.
Microsoft however was always on the path to 2020, because of the late Xbox One X release in 2017.

That easily explains, how Anaconda is more powerful.

 

[nowhat]

Sony aimed initially for 2019 with 7nm

You're basing this on... what?

 

[Braldryr]

You're basing this on... what?

This was never the case. Sony current targeted dates is either March 2020 or November. Most likely Novemeber. But 2020 was always the initial year for launch. Not sure where he is getting 2019 from.

 

[SonGoku]

8800 GT was a different chip (G92) that released a year later.

At launch it was 8800 GTX (384-bit) and 8800 GTS (320-bit).

I know, im just pointing out that even with a 256bit bus the tesla arch was a beast

 

[SonGoku]

The 1:1 comparisons put it around 15% slower on average, which sucked for a +1 year hardware sure, but in a world where simul-launch console came out with a 40% slower GPU, it doesn't sound all that bad in retrospect. Also considering that's still not even close to the biggest delta from two consoles competing largely in the same market - GC/XB ratio was way worse, though considering how much money MS lost there, it's hard to argue it was worth it.
Afaik the bigger issues with RSX were weird bugs/gotchas and just generally poor integration with the memory subsystem. Those were the limitations that really made it hard to get SPE potential out of the hardware.

Thats not even close to the real world difference. On paper the rsx was good and powerful but it had an obsolete architecture, the unified shader arch in the Xenos ran circles around it
The only reason the PS3 could catch up and in some cases surpass the 360 later in the gen was because many graphic intensive tasks were offloaded to the SPUs

If the PS3 had xenos + cell it would have been an absolute beast.

I heard Xbox Anaconda might use 7nm+ EUV in 2020.
Sony aimed initially for 2019 with 7nm, but pushed back to 2020 and will still use the same node.

Xbox wont use better tech than PS5 if it releases on the same year, why do you assume the people in charge PS5 are some incompetent hacks that would miss out on a important process node upgrade while the competition takes advantage of it.

The only possible way something like this materializes is if the nextbox releases a year later.

 

[prinz_valium]

You're basing this on... what?

A lot of things.
This is repeated from many people and sources over and over again.

It's not even sure yet, if Ps5 will release in late 2020 or earlier. Just 2019 is ruled out so far.

 

[SonGoku]

A lot of things.
This is repeated from many people and sources over and over again.

It's not even sure yet, if Ps5 will release in late 2020 or earlier. Just 2019 is ruled out so far.

You can't use rumors as confirmation of other rumors

 

[ResilientBanana]

Where did you get that figure? what do you mean

I was way off, it’s closer to $2.5 Billion, whoops.

 

[prinz_valium]

You can't use rumors as confirmation of other rumors

Who said anything about confirmation?
At this point, and until release, everything is rumors expect official PR.

The confirmation if what I heard is tue will come in 2020 earliest, when we have die shots for all new consoles.
I also have to say, that my rumor makes only sense, if Anaconda and Lockhard use a different process.
So the less demanding Lockhard will still be regular 7nm and Anaconda 7nm+
Those node are similar and share designtools, but one has just more logic density and better efficiency.
And the only use 7nm+ for Anaconda, because the power they want is just not possible on 7nm.

If Microsoft is going for a chiplet and not monolithic design, that makes even more sense.
So they could share the CPU and/or IO die for both and only the GPU die would be different.

There are a lot of possibilities here.

I was way off, it’s closer to $2.5 Billion, whoops.

What company do you talk about?
What time frame?
What division?

Microsoft's anual gaming division is $11bn. Maybe that is where you got your number from.

 

[sinnergy]

New video from DF suggests a range for PS5 of 8 - 11 TF. And comments like faster than stadia suggests 11 TF. If we are lucky Xbox has 12, upper limit with 1,8 GHz is 13,7 TF , but I can see this happening, unless MS has designed even better cooling . And a GPU with those specs in a pc would set you back 700 dollars. Seems 8 - 12 TF is the range.

 

[SonGoku]

Who said anything about confirmation?
At this point, and until release, everything is rumors expect official PR.

Its called confirmation bias.

I also have to say, that my rumor makes only sense

What does not make sense however is MS having exclusive access to 7nm+ on the same time frame

New video from DF suggests a range for PS5 of 8 - 11 TF. And comments like faster than stadia suggests 11 TF.

Uh? they said 10-12TF which is more than doable
Also 12-14TF possibility is out there.