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Is Ellie from “The last of us: Part ii” on steroids??

Shagger

Banned
In the shirtless scene, absolutely.



My props to your indoctinators. A solid job, complete with a strong education in how to use strawmen.

Strawmen removed, I do agree though, that some on my side take it too far sometimes. I don't think this is one of those times.

Even if I was indoctrinated, at least that means I was willing and able to learn something. Stuff like, it is possible to have a lead character who is female and/or on the LGBTQ spectrum by design. That you can include minority groups in entertainment media and not have it be cheap pandering. Learning what the difference between the two is. Looking at someone else's opinion and having the capability to respect it without necessarily agreeing with it. Stuff like that.
 
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-Arcadia-

Banned
several people in this thread kept telling people like you that this physique isnt outside of any possibilitys.
i myself had a girlfiend with a back like that.
why do you keep ignoring those statements?

and stop accusing poeple of beeing indoctrinated because they view things differently. Its not helpfull.
but if you wanna go full stupid we can also go this way:

everyone who vies Ellie as mannish or hulking must have a small penis and/or must be scared of not being able to satisfy his partner. Also theres a high possibility that you sit in your room 24/7 wanking it to hentai and have warped views of how real humans look. (see how stupid this is?)

Just because you and several others sleep with It's Ma'am, and props for that, doesn't mean our definitions of the female form are wrong.

I won't reply to those continued strawmen however, even before the exaggerated ones (which many on your side have used unironically in this thread already). That is largely why I called you indoctrinated. I don't publicize any details about me on the internet, but you'd be amused at who you're talking to, in regards to some of your points.
 
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-Arcadia-

Banned
Ok.. that’s where I feel our views differ. While I don’t agree with you that Ellie looks mannish or hulking in the shirtless scene because I feel she looks very feminine and sexy despite the bruises and injuries I’m also not going going to try and convince you that you’re some how wrong in your opinion.

I have my own personal experiences with female body builders and I could find pics of females who I feel so look mannish and hulking but it’s all a mute point.

When I first quoted and replied to you I was just trying to argue/point out that a figure that Ellie has is totally possible for someone who’s in her situation. Even though I only quoted you my replies was also meant for others who were saying that her figure was not possible in a post apocalyptic world. I didn’t mean to single you out. Your post just stood out because it was more well organized then the others.

Fair play, friend. A respectful agree to disagree.
 

Rhysser

Banned
This thread is probably an overlapping Venn diagram of the people who can't accept criticism or exploration of Sony exclusives, and the people who can't accept criticism or exploration of current societal trends, which is kind of fascinating.

The third and by far biggest circle in this Venn diagram is made of the people whose primary exposure to women is Dead or Alive.
 

Jenenser

Member
Just because you and several others sleep with It's Ma'am, and props for that, doesn't mean our definitions of the female form are wrong.

I won't reply to those continued strawmen however, even before the exaggerated ones (which many on your side have used unironically in this thread already). That is largely why I called you indoctrinated. I don't publicize any details about me on the internet, but you'd be amused at who you're talking to, in regards to some of your points.

there is no single definition of the female form. thats why this thread is so stupid to begin with.

i even laid out why these strawman are useless, yet you go right into them and feel attacked to the point of needing to defend yourself... lol.

i guess you didn't get what i was trying to tell you. But reading things as your "side" tells me enought to know.

this is not a war between 2 teams.
what is wrong with you people?!
 

-Arcadia-

Banned
It's incredible to see Resetera-tier posting on Gaf, btw. Quite a bit of it in these last few pages as the hive panics over too many alternate, and pretty accurate opinions, and rushes to insult or strawman everyone responsible.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Just because you and several others sleep with It's Ma'am, and props for that, doesn't mean our definitions of the female form are wrong.
WTF.

Ellie does not have excessive muscle mass, if you do any sports with a strength aspect, you will see that many women have a comparable physique, without any doping whatsoever. The image in OP may be a bitt less obviously female, but that is largly because the butt is almost invisible in the scene. Even disregarding the disrespectul tone towards transgender people, it is completely baseless to call Ellie a transwoman because she is not a lazy lump.
 

-Arcadia-

Banned
there is no single definition of the female form. thats why this thread is so stupid to begin with.

i even laid out why these strawman are useless, yet you go right into them and feel attacked to the point of needing to defend yourself... lol.

i guess you didn't get what i was trying to tell you. But reading things as your "side" tells me enought to know.

this is not a war between 2 teams.
what is wrong with you people?!

I only give you what I get. Be rational in debate, and I'll engage in the same manner.

I think the question would be, what is wrong with you people, that you can't conduct your affairs or thinking in any sort of logical manner?

Putting aside the fact that the OP contains what looks like a panties-wearing man, and you all are lining up to say you've slept with the same :messenger_tears_of_joy:, your oft-specious, false arguments, and frequently, infantile insults, are doing nothing to convince anyone otherwise.

Granted, I'm totally in the same mud pit now on insults. But I'm enjoying winding you all up, whereas it looks like massive Ree asspain over there.

At any time though, we can resume a civil conversation. I just expect you to take the first step.
 

-Arcadia-

Banned
WTF.

Ellie does not have excessive muscle mass, if you do any sports with a strength aspect, you will see that many women have a comparable physique, without any doping whatsoever. The image in OP may be a bitt less obviously female, but that is largly because the butt is almost invisible in the scene. Even disregarding the disrespectul tone towards transgender people, it is completely baseless to call Ellie a transwoman because she is not a lazy lump.

Whoa. I actually feel the need to correct this. It's Ma'am is a world away from your typical transgender person. No commentary on transgender people.

All the commentary on It's Ma'am for being a psycho and a lolcow.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Whoa. I actually feel the need to correct this. It's Ma'am is a world away from your typical transgender person. No commentary on transgender people.

All the commentary on It's Ma'am for being a psycho and a lolcow.
So if you did not want to use it to describe transgender people in general, how does it relate to the matter of whether Ellie is too muscular (to be natural)?
 

Jenenser

Member
I only give you what I get. Be rational in debate, and I'll engage in the same manner.

I think the question would be, what is wrong with you people, that you can't conduct your affairs or thinking in any sort of logical manner?

Putting aside the fact that the OP contains what looks like a panties-wearing man, and you all are lining up to say you've slept with the same :messenger_tears_of_joy:, your oft-specious, false arguments, and frequently, infantile insults, are doing nothing to convince anyone otherwise.

Granted, I'm totally in the same mud pit now on insults. But I'm enjoying winding you all up, whereas it looks like massive Ree asspain over there.

At any time though, we can resume a civil conversation. I just expect you to take the first step.
so your just an idiot? (my first insult in this whole conversation)
got it.
i was civil with you. there were 0 insults, while you implied negative things about others or me. i even laid out to you why it doesnt help any conversation. yet you go right into it. than you imply i slept with a man.

the level of discourse is low because you set the bar there. or show me once where i insulted you.
and thanks for suggesting that the woman i slept with is worth less than other woman.

and yes, your as annoying as a piece of shit i mightve stepped on. you got me there. could be because you behave like a giant cunt. not because your reasoning is smart or logical as you try to imply.
the only one who tried to insult others in this whole conversation is you (until now).
 

Shagger

Banned
I only give you what I get. Be rational in debate, and I'll engage in the same manner.

I think the question would be, what is wrong with you people, that you can't conduct your affairs or thinking in any sort of logical manner?

Putting aside the fact that the OP contains what looks like a panties-wearing man, and you all are lining up to say you've slept with the same :messenger_tears_of_joy:, your oft-specious, false arguments, and frequently, infantile insults, are doing nothing to convince anyone otherwise.

Granted, I'm totally in the same mud pit now on insults. But I'm enjoying winding you all up, whereas it looks like massive Ree asspain over there.

At any time though, we can resume a civil conversation. I just expect you to take the first step.

From what I've seen, I doubt that you are interested in having a civilised, productive debate, you're just trying to jazz people up. And even if you were, a dabate about what? A bareback image of a character model in video game that actually looks like a relatively normal, but fit young women that some people are trying to pin as an ill-proportioned, roided she-hulk? That is ludicrous.

There's stuff that can be gotten into. How she got/kept in shape and had the correct diet in the world of TLOU to get there ect and I've enjoyed that in this thread, but I think it's been well established that's all plausible here, so that can't go anywhere.

What I do see is alot immature, insecure individuals who are just not willing accept that a woman can get in such good shape. Most likely because they themselves are not. So they do exactly what is sadly expected. Complain, last out, make stupid jokes and try to twist this into social/political scandal that it really isn't. Even if that image was of a roided she-hulk, it wouldn't make a difference. The reaction from that side would be the same. If Ellie was actually a lite less muscular, it would still be the same. People just can't handle thier insecurities.

Not to mention this one very insignificant detail anyway, not kinda close to being worth this level of attention. Frankly, I'm actually embarrassed I've commented on this as much as I have. But it would be more embarrassing to feel threatened by a fictional female 19 year old just because she's in better shape than me.
 
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Shagger

Banned
As long as she's able to consume high amounts of protein in that environment, I think it's plausible.

As I stated before, after the end of the last game, Ellie and Joel move to Tommy's town. The town had running water, crops, livestock and electricity. A healthy enough diet and aminities to get and keep fit is very plausible.
 
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joe_zazen

Member
These days western devs are trying really hard to make games with strong women and at the same time they remove every hint of femininity in them because they think: feminine features will attract the male gaze and that is sexist! so they have a list of feminine features they try to avoid:

-Hourglass body type? nope, she must have the body type of a teenage muscular boy.
-long hair? no, long hair are sexist, make it short like men's hair.
-big breasts? oh god no, big breasted women are sexist and attract the evil male gaze.
-acting more feminine and have a feminine behavior? we want a strong woman here, femininity is weak, make her act like a man!
-wear a dress? are you crazy!! put her in a man's shirt and pants.
-what about falling in love with a guy? nononono strong women fall in love with other strong women, that's what makes them strong and brave dude.

Yup, western devs are brain washed.

It is what sells more. Corporations want sales, so they make the product that there is a demand for.

I think male American millennials and younger have enormous guilt over who they are and therefore choose the media that assuages that guilt. They buy so-called progressive consumer products and are told they are changing the world by doing so. They get to temporarily feel better and the corporations get their money.

It might seem weird, but sex does not sell. .
 
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CyberPanda

Banned
That's just seasoning baby..
iu
 

Rhysser

Banned
I think white male American millennials and younger have enormous guilt over who they are and therefore choose the media that assuages that guilt. They buy consumerist products and are told they are changing the world by doing so. They get to temporarily feel better and the corporations get their money.

It might seem weird, but sex does not sell.

There's some of that guilt going on. A lot of it is also just because of novelty. In the favorite character's thread for example I mention Kainé from Nier. This character is not interesting because of her being intersex, or just strong, or whatever. It's because she is just so unique compared to what we usually get, so it's far less predictable and played out. A third aspect I think is also just younger generations wanting to change society's perceptions of who women are and who they can be, and a great way to do that is through media. So of course they support it. So I think 'guilt' is there but is probably not as large a motivator compared to the other two.
 
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SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
Not painting everyone with the same brush of course, but I think there's a few to many insecure, misogynistic man babies on NoeGAF that you can't discuss games like TLOU II, more specifically games featuring strong female and/or LGBTQ leads without it going at least a little bit wrong.
You are calling some people here misogynists over a video game character. Really? You know maybe that one dude that called others SJW aren't that far off here! (maybe)
I don't know about anyone else, but when she's mentioned what comes to my mind is this


NulsWp1.png


Not this...


TRjIit1.png


Yes, she's a honey, but the power armor I think is in fact a more telling reflection of the character
Yes and no. Since the original Metroid Samus has been a tall big girl and despite that she's kicked ass without being turned into a goblin. Man those were the days, the days the few women that played video self inserted as the powerful and cute bounty hunter. The fuck happened to gamers? ANYWAY her suit isn't her entirely without it she's quite capable . She has muscles as well that fit a natty woman would have as well.

You're literally making no sense.

Just because someone appears "sexy," that doesn't mean they will not have a tough personality.
That literally goes both ways sweetie.
I mentioned several things when it comes to Ellie's appearing and her personality, not just one.

You're not going to get sexy characters walking around in high heels in TLOU too because that wouldn't be "realistic."
Oh so it can only be realistic when you want it to be realistic? As if plant zombies are realistic? Or a woman taking down men twice her weight is realistic? Again that goes both ways. People are free to criticize something they don't like. Just like Naughty Dog is free to make Ellie as unappealing as they like. It is their videogame character after all but to think realism or personality is why they made her like that is hilarious to me. It is just their choice more than anything, if they want they could give her a third arm and it wouldn't matter because the game's setting is fucking zombies lol.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
You are calling some people here misogynists over a video game character. Really? You know maybe that one dude that called others SJW aren't that far off here! (maybe)

Yes and no. Since the original Metroid Samus has been a tall big girl and despite that she's kicked ass without being turned into a goblin. Man those were the days, the days the few women that played video self inserted as the powerful and cute bounty hunter. The fuck happened to gamers? ANYWAY her suit isn't her entirely without it she's quite capable . She has muscles as well that fit a natty woman would have as well.


That literally goes both ways sweetie.

Oh so it can only be realistic when you want it to be realistic? As if plant zombies are realistic? Or a woman taking down men twice her weight is realistic? Again that goes both ways. People are free to criticize something they don't like. Just like Naughty Dog is free to make Ellie as unappealing as they like. It is their videogame character after all but to think realism or personality is why they made her like that is hilarious to me. It is just their choice more than anything, if they want they could give her a third arm and it wouldn't matter because the game's setting is fucking zombies lol.

You're struggling to make an argument that even makes sense.

You're trying to counter all my points, but failing in the process.

If you're going to portray a character living in a post-apologetic world, then you're going to have characters that wear clothes to reflect that.

Their clothes are rugged, dirty and with holes.

That literally goes both ways sweetie.

You fail to grasp the simple concept.

This happens in all movies

Tomboys in films often have a tough personality and dress "like a boy."

There are many examples of this.

Ice Box little giants
58c321aea7d4f3c51c941e2ab3506398_crop_exact.png


Michelle Rodriguez in just about most movies she plays in.

She is known for this and often dresses the part in her movies.



Oh so it can only be realistic when you want it to be realistic? As if plant zombies are realistic? Or a woman taking down men twice her weight is realistic? Again that goes both ways.


Read my post again.

The word literally is put into quotes, which means the reader is not suppose to take it 100% literally.

There's no such things as the infected, so the world is clearly not realistic, but they want to have a level of realistic to make the world seem believable.


Any writer and character designer will tell you this.

You're just having a hard time understanding these simple facts when I keep proving my point.
 
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SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
You're struggling to make an argument that even makes sense.

You're trying to counter all my points, but failing in the process.

If you're going to portray a character living in a post-apologetic world, then you're going to have characters that wear clothes to reflect that.

Their clothes are rugged, dirty and with holes.



You fail to grasp the simple concept.

This happens in all movies

Tomboys in films often have a tough personality and dress "like a boy."

There are many examples of this.

Ice Box little giants
58c321aea7d4f3c51c941e2ab3506398_crop_exact.png


Michelle Rodriguez in just about most movies she plays in.

She is known for this and often dresses the part in her movies.






Read my post again.

The word literally is put into quotes, which means the reader is not suppose to take it 100% literally.

There's no such things as the infected, so the world is clearly not realistic, but they want to have a level of realistic to make the world seem believable.


Any writer and character designer will tell you this.

You're just having a hard time understanding these simple facts when I keep proving my point.

I made perfectly valid points you are ignoring but keep telling yourself that. Also

Stop

Doing

This

Please

I'm not even talking about the damn clothes here either. :)
 

joe_zazen

Member
There's some of that guilt going on. A lot of it is also just because of novelty. In the favorite character's thread for example I mention Kainé from Nier. This character is not interesting because of her being intersex, or just strong, or whatever. It's because she is just so unique compared to what we usually get, so it's far less predictable and played out. A third aspect I think is also just younger generations wanting to change society's perceptions of who women are and who they can be, and a great way to do that is through media. So of course they support it. So I think 'guilt' is there but is probably not as large a motivator compared to the other two.

Yeah, prolly more than one reason...still. boils down to consume corporate product to feel good about yourself and build your identity.
 
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SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
I think you just have an issue if a woman is not girly and ready to jump on the "SJW" bandwagon. :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Sorry to break it to you, but not all women are like this.
I think you have an issue with people having opinions and knowing facts from fiction or fictional characters.

Sorry to break it to you, but videogames aren't real life. Most gym regulars look way better than the women portrayed here. They aren't all "girly" and nobody said only one type exists either.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
I think you have an issue with people having opinions and knowing facts from fiction or fictional characters.

Sorry to break it to you, but videogames aren't real life. Most gym regulars look way better than the women portrayed here. They aren't all "girly" and nobody said only one type exists either.

You replied to me after I made a list of female protagonist.

You said they were more feminine than Ellie, and I told you that's irreverent.

I later explained how a character's personality generally ( generally means in most cases and not all the time ) goes in to their character design and followed it with a few examples.

You later told me to explain Samus' design because you believed she was tough while still looking "sexy."

If I state "generally" then I clearly not saying it happens every single time whenever someone designs a character.

I gave many examples of how a character's personality goes in to their design and you ignored it.


I don't have problem with your opinion, I do have a problem with you taking my words out of context and ignoring that it has been proven that a character's personality is often a reflection in their character design.
 
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SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
You replied to me after I made a list of female protagonist.

You said they were more feminine than Ellie, and I told you that's irreverent.

I later explained how a character's personality generally ( generally means in most cases and not all the time ) goes in to their character design and followed it with a few examples.

You later told me to explain Samus' design because you believed she was tough while still looking "sexy."

If I state "generally" then I clearly not saying it happens every single time whenever someone designs a character.

I gave many examples of how a character's personality goes in to their design and you ignored it.


I don't have problem with your opinion, I do have a problem with you taking my words out of context and ignoring that it has been proven that a character's personality is often a reflection in their character design.
No. I told you personality means dick when it comes to character designs, I meantioned Chun Li which is pretty much a tomboy. Then I mentioned Samus. I said she looked like a literal model. She is a literal soldier that genocides space pirates.
 

GAMETA

Banned
Maybe it's just the art team, you know... they have to convey she's strong...

Also, have you noticed how all chars in ND games have weird shoulders? From Uncharted2/3 to TLOU1 to Uncharted 4... there's always something very strange about those shoulders and how they move... could be something with their mocap/rigging technology, I dunno...

So yeah, maybe it's just their signature weird anatomy
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
No. I told you personality means dick when it comes to character designs, I meantioned Chun Li which is pretty much a tomboy. Then I mentioned Samus. I said she looked like a literal model. She is a literal soldier that genocides space pirates.

What? :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Just about every screenwriter and legitimate artist would tell you that it generally does.

You tried to give me 2 examples to counter my point, when I gave you over a dozen to prove my point.

Randomly found a YouTube video that talks about character design.

Guess what is mentioned first?

Story.

It mentions its the most popular in the industry.

Stan Lee doesn't just create a character when making super heroes, he thinks of a story first, which is part of the character's personality.

You can deny all you want, but just about every single legitimate artist would tell you differently.
 
S

SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
What? :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Just about every screenwriter and legitimate artist would tell you that it generally does.

You tried to give me 2 examples to counter my point, when I gave you over a dozen to prove my point.

Randomly found a YouTube video that talks about character design.

Guess what is mentioned first?

Story.

It mentions its the most popular in the industry.

Stan Lee doesn't just create a character when making super heroes, he thinks of a story first, which is part of the character's personality.

You can deny all you want, but just about every single legitimate artist would tell you differently.
I said personality and then you mentioned story? Ok?
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
I said personality and then you mentioned story? Ok?


Yes, it all falls under that same category.

If I made a character about a female assassin, then I would go with the typical latex suit.
maxresdefault.jpg


If I wanted to design her mother, then I would need a backstory, but since she's her mother, then that would mean I have to make her resemble her physically.


1y42qwp724qz.jpg


Sagat doesn't just have a scar on his chest just because, it's from his fight with Ryu.

That's part of his character design.

Since he's bad guy, he will probably have an angry looking appearance, which Sagat does have.

Characters who love to flaunt themselves are going to wear "sexy" clothing, which is part of their personality.

I can name a huge list of characters who are like this, but you're clearly going to ignore it.


Yes, a character's personality goes into their character design. Creating a story for your character helps, too.
 

lock2k

Banned
No. I told you personality means dick when it comes to character designs, I meantioned Chun Li which is pretty much a tomboy. Then I mentioned Samus. I said she looked like a literal model. She is a literal soldier that genocides space pirates.

Chun-Li is not a tomboy. Sakura is a tomboy.

Chun-Li is feminine as fuck.
 
S

SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
Yes, it all falls under that same category.

If I made a character about a female assassin, then I would go with the typical latex suit.
maxresdefault.jpg


If I wanted to design her mother, then I would need a backstory, but since she's her mother, then that would mean I have to make her resemble her physically.


1y42qwp724qz.jpg


Sagat doesn't just have a scar on his chest just because, it's from his fight with Ryu.

That's part of his character design.

Since he's bad guy, he will probably have an angry looking appearance, which Sagat does have.

Characters who love to flaunt themselves are going to wear "sexy" clothing, which is part of their personality.

I can name a huge list of characters who are like this, but you're clearly going to ignore it.


Yes, a character's personality goes into their character design. Creating a story for your character helps, too.
Nina Williams? The stoic assassin that has NEVER had an interest in men that has weird ass outfits since T1 yet you are giving her the most boring one to date? Really? Her attire fits the "killer" theme I guess but her personality is pretty much that of a dead fish.

This is a tomboy from a fighting game.
tumblr_of2u41KNcT1s3ffo7o2_500.jpg


How come she doesn't look/dress like Ellie? Oh I know, she wasn't purposely made butch! She also isn't a western character. Funny how you bring up Sagat to mention his scar from SF1 like but ignore the other 90% of the street fighter cast. Or whatever point you were trying to make about why this kickboxing "god" dresses traditionally because "story" rather than archetypes.

This is a stoic soldier that later becomes unbrainwashed and she looks like this
3281mhK.png

Does she have a military themed outfit? Sorta? Does it fit her personality? No. Pants optional? NO!

Your entire point was that Ellie was bland and butch *or dressed?* because of her personality. I'm telling you she's only like that because they decided to make her so. What are you even arguing about anymore? Not everything is universal.



Chun-Li is not a tomboy. Sakura is a tomboy.

Chun-Li is feminine as fuck.
Nah Sakura is a retard shoto clone that belongs in the trash. Chun-Li's personality isn't feminine.

DForce is right BTW. A character's design has to say something about them and that something has to make sence.

Look below. One of these guys investigates murders in victoriana England and the other brings bloody death to the God's themselves.

Can you tell which is which?


7cGinAn.jpg

BMsh9IR.jpg
And when I think of a girl that can manipulate gravity I think of a tanned girl with blonde hair that speaks gibberish with red eyes?

750625.jpg
 
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SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, because there's a typical look for such a character...
A person can make a character as bland as possible or make it interesting. It doesn't always follow a motif outside of their occupation and their personality doesn't always match the clothes on their back. Kat is a great example of that. Get it now?
 

Shagger

Banned
A person can make a character as bland as possible or make it interesting. It doesn't always follow a motif outside of their occupation and their personality doesn't always match the clothes on their back. Kat is a great example of that. Get it now?

Kat is an exception because she's unique in those abilities, there is no typical staple for a character like her. A soldier? Yes, there's a staple, something to expect. A survivor in a post apocalyptic world? Yes, there's a staple, something to expect. An assassin? Yes, there's a staple, something to expect. A gravity shifter? No. The concept is to indigenous. She could have had any look and it would make sence. The only reason your using such a counter productive example is she's my avatar. If my avatar had been someone more stereotypical what would you have said then?
 
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SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
Kat is an exception because she's unique in those abilities, there is no typical staple for a character like her. A soldier? Yes, there's a staple, something to expect. A survivor in a post apocalyptic world? Yes, there's a staple, something to expect. An assassin? Yes, there's a staple, something to expect. A gravity shifter? No. The concept is to indigenous. She could have had any look and it would make sence. The only reason your using such a counter productive example is she's my avatar. If my avatar had been someone more stereotypical what would you have said then?
I only used her to make a point.

omoicXs.jpg


Does Homura's personality fit her outfit?
 
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