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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
is he worth it though?

3KLd30n.gif
 
uhm, the difference between the performance of games on PS4pro and One X is way bigger than the One S vs the base PS4... like FAR bigger.
we are talking twice as many pixels per second in many games vs. a less than 40% difference in the 2 base consoles.

Well, fair enough. I was just trying to say that if both XBO and PS4 used the same memory type and amount the differences between them would've been more analogous (in concept, not practice) to the X and Pro. Same CPUs, same architectures, same memory type etc.).
 

xool

Member
What tech leaks? there is really only one. the github leak. It was found by komachi. who then decided to sit on it instead of telling everyone what the CU count was. Threw a fit like a giant cry baby when thuway asked for his source. Then volunteered this chinese forum leaker no one had ever heard of before. if it wasnt for komachi giving him a platform, no one would know or care who this chinese leaker was. And no, he didnt give a range. he simply said Oberon was 300 and arden was 350. No range. he was wrong.

So thats it. github and komachi are one leak. what other tech leaks? Gonzalo? Again derived from github. Gonzalo's firestrike score? The flute leak which doesnt list any GPU performance and uses the same old Gonzalo gpu based on the github leaks? It's one leak thats showing up in mulitple places. And it doesnt jive with any other leaks by devs who are actively coding on these platforms.

I mean just no, no.

Apisak and Konachi have been leaking stuff about Oberon for long before the github leak.

But don't take my word for it - try post #1 and #2 this thread.

As for the rest . ok fine (stadia is a GCN gpu, , but I see the Shreir statement too - which is new to me tbh)

I don't get why you keep saying "this turned out to be correct" when no official specs have released, and nothing has been confirmed, unless I missed something.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
The confusion with PS5 power being 9/10tf and 12/13tf can be caused by 3rd party and 1st party devs having two different devkits.

If a third party dev leaks the power of his dev kit, he isn't necessarily going to know what the power of the 1st party devkit is.

Something tells me that Sony has something big up their sleeve that will put them ahead of the competition, outside of compute power...
but devs have consistently been saying that the ps5 devkit is stronger.
 

Caio

Member
Just need to remind you things that i said before for the last time\
GPU: PS5>SeX ~10%
RayTracing Accelerators: PS5>X1 (PS5's RT works by using acceleration structures and algorithms much like nVidia's RTX cores)
CPU: Sex>PS5 ~ 6%
Memory: PS5>Sex for the size and bandwidth
SSD: PS5>Sex ~ Over twice as fast (this is the biggest and most noticable difference)
Fan noise (Dev-Kit): Sex>PS5 (not as egregious 1x vs. Pro).

BTW it's up to you believe me or not, but things gonna be clear very soon and you will find out who knows and who knows shit.

Bonus?
Remedy and Housemarque have been in Sony's WWS family for a while now!

Techland belongs to MS now!

That would be amazing, but how much PS5 would cost with these specs ?? I cannot wait anymore for an official announcement, I'm becoming crazy !
 

DJ12

Member
I mean just no, no.

Apisak and Konachi have been leaking stuff about Oberon for long before the github leak.

But don't take my word for it - try post #1 and #2 this thread.

As for the rest . ok fine (stadia is a GCN gpu, , but I see the Shreir statement too - which is new to me tbh)

I don't get why you keep saying "this turned out to be correct" when no official specs have released, and nothing has been confirmed, unless I missed something.
Oh, I see, you think Komachi found it the same time as we did. Despite posting information directly from it months before...

Thanks for clearing that up......
 

xool

Member
Oh, I see, you think Komachi found it the same time as we did. Despite posting information directly from it months before...

Thanks for clearing that up......
As I understood it they had multiple sources .. including PCi ID codes etc ..
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I mean just no, no.

Apisak and Konachi have been leaking stuff about Oberon for long before the github leak.

But don't take my word for it - try post #1 and #2 this thread.

As for the rest . ok fine (stadia is a GCN gpu, , but I see the Shreir statement too - which is new to me tbh)

I don't get why you keep saying "this turned out to be correct" when no official specs have released, and nothing has been confirmed, unless I missed something.
Nope. Oberon was first leaked when komachi listed the three BC clockspeeds. before that we only had gonzalo and flute from benchmark sites all based on the same tests AMD engineers were running. They are all the same chips. Ariel was the 1.8 ghz gpu in gonzalo. Oberon is the 2.0 ghz GPU. they are all the same. and they all differ widely from what devs had.

I keep saying this turned out to be correct because Phil himself confirmed 12 tflops and the 400mm2 picture in his profile indirectly confirms 12 tflops. Are you saying that a 400mm2 apu wont be at least 60 CUs? If anything 400mm2 confirms a 60+ CU GPU.

I mean even if you think the head of Xbox is a liar and is going around calling his 9 tflops GPU a 12 tflops console, you would think the 400mm2 apu would be a dead giveaway. to hit 9 tflops for a 60 CU gpu, you would need a 1.2 ghz clockspeed. surely MS isnt going with the same clocks they did with the x1x,

we dont need official specs when we have the head of xbox saying something and then the chip size confirming what hes saying.
 

DJ12

Member
As I understood it they had multiple sources .. including PCi ID codes etc ..
Nope, not for that.

Pretty sure the only concrete info came when they found the github documents. Everything prior was pure guess work on their part, based on things they later admit AMD can and have been faking.
 

xool

Member
Nope. Oberon was first leaked when komachi listed the three BC clockspeeds. before that we only had gonzalo and flute from benchmark sites all based on the same tests AMD engineers were running. They are all the same chips. Ariel was the 1.8 ghz gpu in gonzalo. Oberon is the 2.0 ghz GPU. they are all the same. and they all differ widely from what devs had.

..
So you're saying that Gonzalo, Ariel, Oberon are all from the github leak ? I have to ask because I never got to see it myself before it was removed ..

I don't see how the xbox chip confirms anything other than the leaks about Scarlet (Arden) - which as I understand it was said to be 56 CUs in github - which is enough for ~12TF . so that's ok

But how does that work with the leaks about PS5 - if it makes the github leak true then PS5 might be only 36CU .. I don't understand your reasoning.
 

Gudji

Member
Just listened to the podcast - not really what he said


I never said he said it in the podcast. It's from his sources, he would never say something like that if he wasn't told.

But keep going.

giphy.gif
 
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Nope. Oberon was first leaked when komachi listed the three BC clockspeeds. before that we only had gonzalo and flute from benchmark sites all based on the same tests AMD engineers were running. They are all the same chips. Ariel was the 1.8 ghz gpu in gonzalo. Oberon is the 2.0 ghz GPU. they are all the same. and they all differ widely from what devs had.

I keep saying this turned out to be correct because Phil himself confirmed 12 tflops and the 400mm2 picture in his profile indirectly confirms 12 tflops. Are you saying that a 400mm2 apu wont be at least 60 CUs? If anything 400mm2 confirms a 60+ CU GPU.

I mean even if you think the head of Xbox is a liar and is going around calling his 9 tflops GPU a 12 tflops console, you would think the 400mm2 apu would be a dead giveaway. to hit 9 tflops for a 60 CU gpu, you would need a 1.2 ghz clockspeed. surely MS isnt going with the same clocks they did with the x1x,

we dont need official specs when we have the head of xbox saying something and then the chip size confirming what hes saying.

Devs haven't been saying this; insiders have. Insiders whom we don't know who their exact sources actually are, mind you. The two shouldn't be conflated.

The main reason people are willing to buy into the 12TF XSX numbers are because, for starters, MS has just been more communicative with their next-gen efforts compared to Sony, so they're provided "enough" (bare minimum) to let some type of speculation run. Not only that, but by providing the APU picture that's allowed people who are experts at calculating silicon die size to estimate fairly accurately how big the die actually is, and what realistic CU numbers can fit in there when accounting for other parts of the APU besides the GPU and even CPU (should also mention some of these people have also managed to figure AMD's wafer silicon budget on 7nm and deduce what amounts companies like MS and Sony could get on that with their next-gen APUs approxiamating the APU sizes).

If it weren't for those two things (which are tied to hard data, btw), many would still be speculating if even XSX were realistically 12TF. I mean, some still are, for various reasons. Some I'm sure have some legitimacy to them, others for reasons amounting to console warring BS. It is what it is.

While there's people saying one thing, the only things regarding PS5 that have hard data tied to them are the Gonzalo/Ariel/Oberon chip testing benchmarks, which have been relatively constant (with some reasonable flux) in their performance measurements. So that's basically taken PS5 benchmarking TF tests from 6.9TF (lowest end, early Gonzalo 1GHz tests), to 9.261TF (Oberon @ 2GHz), to some of the other rumored specs piggybacking off that giving 10.24TF (Oberon @ 2GHz with all 40 CUs active)...though there haven't been any GPU benchmarking tests with Oberon uncovered actually showing that particular performance level, tbf.
 

vpance

Member
Im gonna go on a limb and say that anyone in the know wouldnt just causally spew that knowledge out on a forum board and not face serious legal ramifications. Speculation and leaks are fun to read but come on.

Correct. Especially when it comes to the issue of securities fraud. We can all commit acts of insider trading by buying Remedy stock now 🕵️💰
 

xool

Member
I never said he said it in the podcast. It's from his sources, he would never say something like that if he wasn't told.

But keep going.
I dunno what he heard, but we live in a world where "as good as 2080" becomes "has more than 12TF" on the grapevine .. who knows what he was originally told when people reach so much
 
I dunno what he heard, but we live in a world where "as good as 2080" becomes "has more than 12TF" on the grapevine .. who knows what he was originally told when people reach so much
Actually you quoted him in your post saying "more powerful than GPUs like RTX 2080"
 

splattered

Member
I keep seeing people says "all the devs say the ps5/dev kits are more powerful"

Which devs?

I remember yoshida saying devs appreciate how easy it is to program for but that's it...

If a bunch of actual well known developers were openly saying that the ps5 dev kits are more powerful you'd think it would be pasted up all over the place but I'm only reading it on here from insider's that refuse to back up their sources.
 
I keep seeing people says "all the devs say the ps5/dev kits are more powerful"

Which devs?

I remember yoshida saying devs appreciate how easy it is to program for but that's it...

If a bunch of actual well known developers were openly saying that the ps5 dev kits are more powerful you'd think it would be pasted up all over the place but I'm only reading it on here from insider's that refuse to back up their sources.

And to jeopardize their jobs. You really want that?
 

Lunatic_Gamer

Gold Member
“Over 10% of developers are currently making games for next-gen, with 11% saying they were making games for the PlayStation 5 (and 23% saying their next game would be on the console), and 9% actively developing for Xbox Project Scarlett (17% saying their next game would be).”

 

johnjohn

Member
I keep seeing people says "all the devs say the ps5/dev kits are more powerful"

Which devs?

I remember yoshida saying devs appreciate how easy it is to program for but that's it...

If a bunch of actual well known developers were openly saying that the ps5 dev kits are more powerful you'd think it would be pasted up all over the place but I'm only reading it on here from insider's that refuse to back up their sources.
No devs have said it, only "insiders" have said it.. and the insider on here who apparently has a very very good source says otherwise.
 
I keep seeing people says "all the devs say the ps5/dev kits are more powerful"

Which devs?

I remember yoshida saying devs appreciate how easy it is to program for but that's it...

If a bunch of actual well known developers were openly saying that the ps5 dev kits are more powerful you'd think it would be pasted up all over the place but I'm only reading it on here from insider's that refuse to back up their sources.


 
Honestly I don't know why people are even fixated on what "devs" have or have not said. Like others on this page mentioned, they could have been working with devkits and the running theory for a long time was that XSX's devkits were running behind PS5s, as in behind schedule.

Not only that but there's literally hundreds (if not thousands) of devs; getting such words from any 1st-party studios wouldn't really carry much weight; they're going to favor their respective platform since that is their primary (and generally only) platform. 3rd parties? It could come down to plenty of factors; not all 3rd-parties are on the same page with dev kits, hell not even all employees at a dev studio are on the same access/privilege level in regards to knowing specific next-gen console performance metrics and data (for example the C-Team may be further down that latter than the B-Team or A-Team).

There's just too many factors at play there which can throw all of that talk out of whack.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Devkits, but maybe not final consoles - it's certain that at least the early kits weren't even running RDNA chips, let alone final hardware. There's a chance old leaks are irrelevant..
yes, its possible that all journalists and their dev sources that are in the industry were wrong and komachi and that chinese leaker were the only ones who got it right.

So you're saying that Gonzalo, Ariel, Oberon are all from the github leak ? I have to ask because I never got to see it myself before it was removed ..

I don't see how the xbox chip confirms anything other than the leaks about Scarlet (Arden) - which as I understand it was said to be 56 CUs in github - which is enough for ~12TF . so that's ok

But how does that work with the leaks about PS5 - if it makes the github leak true then PS5 might be only 36CU .. I don't understand your reasoning.
IIRC, Gonzalo showed up in some AMD dumps early this year. Clocks went from 1 to 1.8 ghz to 2.0 ghz by late summer. But the GPU in it is basically the same as the one referenced in the Flute leak, in the github leaks, in the firestrike score APISAK found. What you are seeing is results from the same set of GPUs found in the github leaks. There is a reason no devs are talking about Oberon or Gonzalo or Ariel. The only name we have heard is Prospero which is the official name of the PS5 devkit. But that is completely missing from the github leaks.
So apparently it was a guess ..
this is hard to parse, but yes, it seems this was conjecture from him but he literally immediately follows that up by talking about his DEV sources who told him that the PS5 and Xbox are insanely powerful. So its conjecture based on stuff he heard from his sources. The same sources who told him that BOTH console makers were aiming to beat Stadia's 10.7 tflops NUMBER. this is before anyone knew what an RDNA was. all he heard was a number and that number in March 2019 was above 10.7 tflops. If the ps5 was indeed 9.2 tflops, his dev sources wouldnt have told him BOTH consoles were aiming to beat 10.7 tflops. If the PS5 was 9.2 tflops, Andrew Reiner, kleegamefan and Colin Moriarty's dev sources wouldnt have told them all the same thing. Who looks at 9.2 tflops vs 12 tflops and says 9 tflops console is more powerful? The anaconda 12 tflops rumors were out in January. Reiner specifically said its based on target specs, not devkits.

Klee said that his dev source who showed him the game told him that the consoles were using AMD GPUs not yet announced. this was backed up WCCFTECH's navi leaker who called it a full year before klee ever did.

Is it possible that all of these devs were right about the xbox but not the PS5? Yes.
 

Gudji

Member
Bros this is really easy to understand and some of you are over complicating things.

The performance of these machines will only depend on one thing: price.

If PS5 and XSX are 499 both will have similar performance.
If PS5 is 399 and XSX 499 the XSX will have advantage in GPU performance

Going by what guys that can be trusted and have a high track record (Jason and Matt i.e) have said there's only two scenarios I can see becoming possible:

1) Both PS5 and XSX are in 9-10 TF range
2) Both PS5 and XSX are above 10 TF and within 10-15% max of each other.

Pick one.
 

Brudda26

Member
Didn't we just get one of his supposed leaks shot down by Jason Schreier?
I'm pretty sure the site that posted his leak interpreted what he said wrong. I'm pretty sure osiris said something along the lines of Microsoft getting the marketing deal and not game exclusivity. I could be mis remembering though, but there was stuff about marketing deals in what he said.
 

LED Guy?

Banned
So apparently it was a guess ..
No it wasn’t a guess, then why did he even say it? Then he said that he heard that both consoles are very powerful in the same context, come on man, it’s so obvious, this also lines up with what Kleegamefan has been saying for a long time as well.
 
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bitbydeath

Member
No devs have said it, only "insiders" have said it.. and the insider on here who apparently has a very very good source says otherwise.

The only times 3rd party devs have directly spoken about them (to my knowledge) are these:



Jonathan Blow said:
I'm excited about some consoles in the next-generation, let's put it that way. PS5 is pretty good.


The bitterness towards Xbox is probably Lockhart related I’d imagine.
 
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yeeeeeezy

Banned
I'm pretty sure the site that posted his leak interpreted what he said wrong. I'm pretty sure osiris said something along the lines of Microsoft getting the marketing deal and not game exclusivity. I could be mis remembering though, but there was stuff about marketing deals in what he said.
I'm pretty sure everyone interpreted Osiris post as superman being exclusive to xbox because who gives a flying fk about marketing rights. You don't hype marketing rights as Osiris was doing.
 

saintjules

Member
I have to write this comment, to those who are saying that Xbox Series X will be a 9 - 10 RDNA TF console, no, it will not, you may ask why, I'll tell you why:

I won't jump to the huge amounts of insider and journalists which they all said or pointed out that it is a 12 TF console, guys like Jason Schreier, Kleegamefan, Matt from ResetEra, Digital Foundry, Windows Central etc etc...

I'm just gonna jump on the SoC chip itself picture that was shared by Phil Spencer, that chip is HUGE, It is gargantuan, and many tech experts have made measuring and concluded that it is a 52 to 56 CUs chip, so why would they build a HUGE chip like that only to get a 9 to 10 TF console? No they wouldn't do that, they have built this chip to clock it accordingly to achieve that 12 RDNA TeraFlops figure.

Just look at this chip LOL!!
GPw5jQ9.jpg
It was funny, David Prien was on a certain Podcast saying how those are dummy chips.
 
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