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[3liteDragon]

So wouldn't that confirm they have some insider knowledge about the PS5? Would they be about legal ramifications about them having insider knowledge about a rival console when the rival hasn't announced anything?

Both companies probably have insider knowledge on each other, Microsoft probably knows some stuff about the PS5 and that's why they're not using the "most powerful" phrase OR they barely have any info on their competitor so they're not sure. As for legal ramifications, Xbox One X was first teased at E3 2016 as "Project Scorpio" and towards the end of the E3 teaser, the sentence "The most powerful console ever." came up. They said this 3 MONTHS before PS4 Pro was officially unveiled in September of the same year and there were no legal ramifications for them. Ever since then, they've been shouting that 6TF number from the rooftops, now with the Series X, I've never heard them say "The Xbox Series X is the most powerful console ever" a single time.

 

[3liteDragon]

I have a feeling the Xbox Series S is gonna be announced tomorrow morning instead of some other day during this week, they want to get ahead of the news cycle and also want Series S to be the hot topic for the rest of the week. And the best way to do that is to announce something on a Monday at the start of the week, remember what they did with the February 24th 12TF blog post, it was posted on Monday at 9AM EST. So I would expect them to do the same tomorrow, but hey, it could just be on another day of the week.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Wheres the line in the sand for Sony fanboys? If XSX were 13tf, would it be 14? If XSX was 14tf would it be 15.

The gap has definitely closed from 1.23TF to 1.84TF(iirc) IMHO, so I’m not expecting 10x with 12.3TF versus 18.4TF, respectively.

Assuming Sony have deemed the TF number to be the critical metric to deliver the best next-gen RT solution, and they haven’t paired a 9.2TF with a dedicated RT solution, then I’d be expecting ~15.0TF from PS5 – just under 8x PS4 – and a sign of Xbox gaining 50% on Playstation from last-time out (18 – 12 = 6, 6/2 = 3, 12 + 3 = 15TF).

 

[PaintTinJr]

Really doubt you'll make up that much of a compute disadvantage with memory bandwidth. If 9v12 is true, MS would have screw up pretty badly to starve the gpu of bandwidth. As it looks, there's a 320bit bus with a theoretical max of 560Gb/s which is somewhat low IIRC but not low enough where the system would be bandwidth starved. They can fix that by jumping up to the next tier of ram chips. Keep in mind, it looks like ram will be the costliest aspect of the upcoming consoles.

I'm basing my thoughts on the idea that as you have an over abundance of performance on a second by second basis - rather than a frame by frame basis - memory bandwidth will become more critical in system efficiency and even more critical to RT. I think this gen moved performance high enough for rasterization graphics to completely dwarf the most basic rasterization pipelines at the half-gen refresh that we are now either Ray Tracing and full loaded with memory bandwidth being critical or struggling to maintain scene complexity to make compute the first bottleneck, rather than memory. I'm really intrigued to hear other people's reasonings for why I might have that thinking all wrong.

 

[silent head]

Both companies probably have insider knowledge on each other, Microsoft probably knows some stuff about the PS5 and that's why they're not using the "most powerful" phrase OR they barely have any info on their competitor so they're not sure. As for legal ramifications, Xbox One X was first teased at E3 2016 as "Project Scorpio" and towards the end of the E3 teaser, the sentence "The most powerful console ever." came up. They said this 3 MONTHS before PS4 Pro was officially unveiled in September of the same year and there were no legal ramifications for them. Ever since then, they've been shouting that 6TF number from the rooftops, now with the Series X, I've never heard them say "The Xbox Series X is the most powerful console ever" a single time.

E3 2019

Xbox Scarlett vs. PlayStation 5: Microsoft wants Scarlett to be the 'most powerful console'

Microsoft wants to be the best.

www.windowscentral.com

There are going to be areas where we should compete. And those areas… can lead to better outcomes when we compete… but it's still a world where in order for us to do better, you don't have to do worse… Gaming is a better space when there are brands that people trust, where brands that have been around for decades continue to be around… I want Xbox obviously to be one of those… We're not building Scarlett to not be the best console. I want to be number one. I'm as competitive as anybody. But that doesn't mean that I need somebody else to… suffer from a business standpoint… I think raw power is very important… I don't have a PS5 development kit, so I don't know what they're building… I will say that being a leader in consoles is what the team is committed to doing… We aren't building this program to try to aim for second place. We're building it aiming for first place and that's what I want to hit.

What You Can Expect From the Next Generation of Gaming - Xbox Wire

The future of gaming has never been more inspiring. Creativity in games is flourishing. New services empower you to discover more games—and bring you closer to the games and creators and streamers you love. The cloud creates a massive opportunity to stream console-quality games and play with the...

news.xbox.com

Xbox Series X is our most powerful console

 

[Agnostic2020]

Hey guys, I know it's early and all, but we're going in circles. How about inventing the title for PS5 and XSX OTs while we're sitting here on our hands?

PlayStation 5 Official Hardware Thread [OT] - It's in our (R)DNA
Xbox Series X Official Hardware Thread [OT] - The Tower of Power

You get the idea...

OK

PlayStation 5 Official Hardware Thread [OT] - 13 is the new 12

PlayStation 5 Official Hardware Thread [OT] -But the Github Said

PlayStation 5 Official Hardware Thread [OT] -
Klee's Redemption

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Well, its Monday... Again...

 

[pasterpl]

Heya, i think we should treat this like Blizzard's famous quote. Time for reveal would be "Its ready when its ready."

Think MS jumped the gun as they need to get people starting to talk about them but means a higher marketing budget as they need to keep the momentum going throughout the year.
Whereas with Sony they still have quite a blockbuster of PS4 games coming out in the next couple of months which in the end will advertise Sony's brand and pique more curiosity of the PS5. In this regards, less marketing budget also required.

I think that these are quite accurate assumptions.

 

[ZywyPL]

Been playing through inFamous 1 recently (first time playing despite being gifted it by Sony after the old PSN hack). Games like this are why we need full BC on PS5. I really hope all these rumours are true; have we had any more BC teases? Feed my over-hype to fuel my inevitable disappointment!

Truth be told, you are over a decade late to the party, there are many similar examples with people backlogging older titles no doubt, but the vast majority of gamers simply don't go back to the old games once they finished them once or twice, or played their MP to death. Even MW2 that was unarguably the most hyped game of all times was played for like a week or so once it was available in XB1 BC, and then it got completely forgotten once again. CoD 4, same deal - even after full, remarkable remaster, people simply refreshed their memories/nostalgia feelings and went back to newer installments, and never went back to COD4 ever again. It's a nice feature sure, but I fully understand Sony's COE asking "Why would anybody play this", they certainly have all the data regarding PS/PS2 Classics and PS3 Remasters, or even PS4 games that are still rooted waaay in the past like Shanmu 3 or The Last Guardian. Long story short - people buy NEW systems to play NEW games.

But with all that being said, (PS4) BC will undoubtedly be a huge factor this time around because of cross-gen period, which will be the first 2-3 years once the next-gen launches, and IMO it should be Sony's major marketing/selling point - they need to emphasize wording like "keep you games" and that's all they really need to do to maintain that 100MLN+ userbase, once they make people realize that all those hundreds-thousands of dollars spent in the past 5-7 years won't suddenly disappear, but all the games will still remain, completely playable, I really can't see MS being able to do much about it.

 

[farmerboy]

Is there anyone on this thread that thinks there's still a slight chance for HBM2 RAM on PS5 or is it just me?

A chance? Yes. It fits with the idea of a better RT solution (lower latency memory).

 

[FranXico]

BC will undoubtedly be a huge factor this time around because of cross-gen period, which will be the first 2-3 years once the next-gen launches, and IMO it should be Sony's major marketing/selling point - they need to emphasize wording like "keep you games" and that's all they really need to do to maintain that 100MLN+ userbase, once they make people realize that all those hundreds-thousands of dollars spent in the past 5-7 years won't suddenly disappear, but all the games will still remain, completely playable, I really can't see MS being able to do much about it.

BC will just become a moot point, because both new consoles should provide very high compatibility with this generation of games. MS does not need to worry about it, and neither will Sony.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

This is why drugs are dangerous for health.

 

[Kumomeme]

 

[Gavin Stevens]

HBM isn't in, haven't heard even a whisper about it. I haven't really had chance to chat with *anybody* this weekend for obvious reasons, but nah, its been DDR6 all the way for ages. HBM would be a big deal, and people would be singing about it if that was the case. That's all just opinion though. I mean, it could be, and its a massive secret, but then... Why?

Also I just want to point out something... Somebody mentioned just about how TF isn't really the driving force here and I have to agree, I've been saying it for a while. The trouble with performance like this, is that to see any substantial gains over a competitor, you don't just need a, say, 1-2tf differential. That actually isn't enough to do much of anything, besides maybe a slight boost in resolution or a few digits on FPS. At this level of performance, you would need massive gaps. As you increase your raw base power, it takes more and more power to actually make any serious jumps worth a damn. I won't do the math, because to be quite honest when I did it myself, I just laughed, but... Think about a 12tf baseline, and that 4k/30 is the standard there. Now, what power would you need for a hypothetical "pro" upgrade at 8k/30? Its... Wow... And this is why both companies are hitting so hard on reconstruction this generation. If you can render a 1440p image, and have it look near indistinguishable from a 4k image, you just saved a THIRD in raw performance that can be used for other things.

Anyway, as I was saying, before rambling on...

At this level, lets say 11.6 - 12.X, or 12.X - 12.4, as an example... You wont actually see any notable gains, anywhere, on raw TF performance alone. That's why its funny to see so many hardcore fanboys dancing around these numbers like it matters, because, even if your box is the lower number in this case... It wont matter a damn, at all. But what WILL matter? The other parts. That SSD being what I'm told is about 1-1.5gb/sec faster, its not much, but add it to the "sawce" pool. The memory being possibly clocked higher? Add it to the "saws" pool. (oh and BTW, I keep seeing SX has 13gb memory? I don't know where you have seen that but that's not the case, I believe that was based on ancient, ancient data.) These are the things that will actually show a difference. And that's why I keep hammering these points home...

YES. The consoles will be on par. NO. There wont be a massive difference between the two. But also YES. Each console will have its own strengths and weaknesses.

I guess we will find out more this week, huh.

 

[Shambala]

HBM isn't in, haven't heard even a whisper about it. I haven't really had chance to chat with *anybody* this weekend for obvious reasons, but nah, its been DDR6 all the way for ages. HBM would be a big deal, and people would be singing about it if that was the case. That's all just opinion though. I mean, it could be, and its a massive secret, but then... Why?

Also I just want to point out something... Somebody mentioned just about how TF isn't really the driving force here and I have to agree, I've been saying it for a while. The trouble with performance like this, is that to see any substantial gains over a competitor, you don't just need a, say, 1-2tf differential. That actually isn't enough to do much of anything, besides maybe a slight boost in resolution or a few digits on FPS. At this level of performance, you would need massive gaps. As you increase your raw base power, it takes more and more power to actually make any serious jumps worth a damn. I won't do the math, because to be quite honest when I did it myself, I just laughed, but... Think about a 12tf baseline, and that 4k/30 is the standard there. Now, what power would you need for a hypothetical "pro" upgrade at 8k/30? Its... Wow... And this is why both companies are hitting so hard on reconstruction this generation. If you can render a 1440p image, and have it look near indistinguishable from a 4k image, you just saved a THIRD in raw performance that can be used for other things.

Anyway, as I was saying, before rambling on...

At this level, lets say 11.6 - 12.X, or 12.X - 12.4, as an example... You wont actually see any notable gains, anywhere, on raw TF performance alone. That's why its funny to see so many hardcore fanboys dancing around these numbers like it matters, because, even if your box is the lower number in this case... It wont matter a damn, at all. But what WILL matter? The other parts. That SSD being what I'm told is about 1-1.5gb/sec faster, its not much, but add it to the "sawce" pool. The memory being possibly clocked higher? Add it to the "saws" pool. (oh and BTW, I keep seeing SX has 13gb memory? I don't know where you have seen that but that's not the case, I believe that was based on ancient, ancient data.) These are the things that will actually show a difference. And that's why I keep hammering these points home...

YES. The consoles will be on par. NO. There wont be a massive difference between the two. But also YES. Each console will have its own strengths and weaknesses.

So ssd Ps5 and memory pool XsX . I like it

 

[DrDamn]

HBM isn't in, haven't heard even a whisper about it.

Have you heard about RAM size - something neither have confirmed yet. Is there additional pools for OS or shared larger amounts?

Hopefully fully recovered from any birthday weekend excesses

 

[LED Guy?]

Well, its Monday... Again...

Is this OK? Where do you put the TFLOPS number at?

 

[Gavin Stevens]

I haven't heard anything in a while on memory, and last I heard both were 16, however, I have no idea if they are using any separate pool for the OS. The last time this was even chatted about, it came across to me like yeah they can do that, but there's something "else" that was being used, so no idea there, maybe the SSD makes it redundant now or something, I don't know. But I have nothing to back these claims up, so take this as just "chat" right now.

Is this OK? Where do you put the TFLOPS number at?

Bwhahaha! Love it!

 

[lepermessiah]

Me and muh boi Philly cheese steak Spencer got to talking, we're at rdna SEX now bois

 

[Bo_Hazem]

NVIDIA Ampere GA100 rumored specs: 3x faster than Xbox Series X

NVIDIA Ampere GA100 specs: next-gen Ampere GPU on 7nm+ node, 48GB HBM2e memory, everything AMD killer.

www.tweaktown.com

I don't know, but seems like it's just an added weight at this point.

 

[xiaoming10086]

Is this OK? Where do you put the TFLOPS number at?

Damn we're gonna get a 20TF console at the end of the year

 

[LED Guy?]

Damn we're gonna get a 20TF console at the end of the year

The TFLOPS cycle never ends, the more we wait, the more the TFLOPS increase inside the PS5

 

[Gavin Stevens]

The TFLOPS cycle never ends, the more we wait, the more the TFLOPS increase inside the PS5

The louder you scream, the faster the ride! Trouble is, some people are ACTUALLY serious with this shit. I just read a very funny tweet about 15tf being totally possible on PS5, while SX has lied and its actually only 9tf, which is why they are flooding the internet with 9tf rumours, for damage control.

There isn't enough tin foil in the world for this shit

 

[IR3TR0]

Rdnaflops and whatnot

I cant wait to see the first set of racing games for these consoles, I want sim ones, I want arcade ones and I want some new crashy ones, anyone else?

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Rdnaflops and whatnot

I cant wait to see the first set of racing games for these consoles, I want sim ones, I want arcade ones and I want some new crashy ones, anyone else?

I want Burnout Revenge ones.

 

[xiaoming10086]

Rdnaflops and whatnot

I cant wait to see the first set of racing games for these consoles, I want sim ones, I want arcade ones and I want some new crashy ones, anyone else?

I just want GTA6.

 

[Neo Blaster]

A week ago this thread was a way of seeing actual information or leaks. Now its just petty squabbling.

Welcome to status quo.

 

[Agnostic2020]

The louder you scream, the faster the ride! Trouble is, some people are ACTUALLY serious with this shit. I just read a very funny tweet about 15tf being totally possible on PS5, while SX has lied and its actually only 9tf, which is why they are flooding the internet with 9tf rumours, for damage control.

There isn't enough tin foil in the world for this shit

there are insane fanboys on both sides haha. just like the guy who seriously typed PS5 is RDNA1 but AMD said its RDNA2 not to "Offend Sony"

 

[IR3TR0]

I want Burnout Revenge ones.

Yes!! Would love a new burnout, miss them, it's a shame that ea has put criterion back on need for speed, probably means we wont get a new one anytime soon

 

[Gavin Stevens]

there are insane fanboys on both sides haha. just like the guy who seriously typed PS5 is RDNA1 but AMD said its RDNA2 not to "Offend Sony"

To some people they see just what they want to see, facts be damned. I mean, cheese is just a loaf of milk, right?

 

[LED Guy?]

The louder you scream, the faster the ride! Trouble is, some people are ACTUALLY serious with this shit. I just read a very funny tweet about 15tf being totally possible on PS5, while SX has lied and its actually only 9tf, which is why they are flooding the internet with 9tf rumours, for damage control.

There isn't enough tin foil in the world for this shit

Yo this TFLOPS shit is making people go insane! It’s fun to speculate but not fun when there are lies thrown and insiders getting harassed for stating that “console X is more powerful than console Y” (like poor Klee ).

But man, the amount of misinformation being spread by Xbox fanboys like Colteastwood and Dealer Gaming about the PS5 being a 9.2 TF RDNA 1 console is just upsetting at times, now when RDNA 2 was confirmed for PS5, they’re damage controlling and spinning or around to fit their agendas, it’s stupid LOL!!

 

[IR3TR0]

I just want GTA6.

Can only imagine what rockstar will do with the new consoles, the ssd and much better cpu is really going to open up open world games, I hope anyway lol.

 

[icerock]

To those who still take Github as gospel, get this. The entire reason, it was held to a high regard (by those who went through it), is because of the data contained within in. It couldn't be faked, and it gave us a great deal of information about both next-gen consoles.

Problem as of today if you still believe Github to be true is, the three most crucial information which you are inferring from Github is actually never provided within it!

I) The data provides no proof that Oberon A0 is Navi 2x, the only mention is that of a Navi 10 (aka RDNA1). So if you believe that Oberon A0 was RDNA2 all along, you have to believe that those tests were nothing but a regression test of Ariel iGPU (RDNA1). That theory makes sense, but once again you're interpreting things out from the data which is actually never mentioned in it

II) The data tells us that Oberon A0 doesn't possesses RT and VRS capabilities. For months and months, this drove the discussion regarding Sony going with an external RT solution (LOL) Now, in order for Oberon A0 to be RDNA2, you have to believe it had RT and VRS all along, those things were just never tested because once again tests were related to regression/BC compatibility. Fine in theory, but inference is from something which doesn't come from data, only from ones own views.

III) The 'native' CU count being 36, the data is pretty specific with 18WGP being tagged as 'full chip result'. Perhaps the most crucial information which led so many to preach 9.2TF theory. The driving force behind all of this discussion was Oberon A0 being NAVI 10, which tapped out at 40CUs. Meaning at the time when chip was being designed, 'big NAVI' wasn't ready. Therefore, due to certain limitations they had to go with NAVI 10 and hence fast and narrow design. (Utter BS of course, nothing prevented them building a big ass RDNA1 chip if they wanted, but that's for another time) Now, if you believe Oberon A0 is RDNA2. What makes you certain that it is NOT a big NAVI 2x? Because, the Github data tells us they were in existence at the time, due to Arden possessing 56CUs with RT and VRS. So, when you're spit-balling the disabled CUs on Oberon A0, what makes you certain that there are only 4 disabled CUs and not more? Once again inference is from something which data doesn't necessarily contain, but based on a theory.

Funny thing is, all 3 of the points which I made above completely fits, if you take Oberon A0 at face value i.e. as a NAVI 10 chip. So, for folks to push 'but Github data' as some sort of hard-counter are being completely disingenuous, because their arguments are completely based on what is NOT provided in the Github data. Want to believe Oberon A0 is RDNA2? Fine. Want to believe the native CU count at 36? Fine. But, it's time to stop pretending that those beliefs are based on 'hard data' contained within Github because it is not. It's based on theories conjured from ones own mind or ass, take your pick.

 

[xiaoming10086]

To some people they see just what they want to see, facts be damned. I mean, cheese is just a loaf of milk, right?

Sober is a good thing and I wish everyone coule be.

 

[nd.]

Hello to all NeoGAF members.

I just got registered and approved but have been reading this thread for a while now. I became quite addicted to it.

I would like to share some information about the PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X and rumoured Xbox Series S, that was confirmed to a French veteran journalist, Julien Chièze, from his sources in a YouTube video. He's been independent for a couple of years now but has still very strong relations with people working (including developers) in the industry. I trust him because he is very precautious with the information he shares. He's not the kind of journalist that will spread rumours or fake news.

I'd like to recap here some of the points that were confirmed to him by his sources. I will be quoting his saying and try to provide the best English translation possible.

What I can tell you is that up to now the first PS5 kits [...] didn't have RDNA 2. And that's probably why, and this was confirmed to me, that many people on the Internet said that PS5 was not RDNA 2. And they were right because in the first kits it was not the case. But the 3rd kit will include a complete solution, it's the last kit to date, so it has everything exactly like the commercialised model. So it will be here [i.e. in that case] where it will be very interesting to see.

Still according to my sources, a few months back, Sony put high pressure on AMD not very happy about what they started to hear and know from Microsoft, which clearly with Xbox Series X should have the most powerful next-gen console. But I will come back to it, because it's pure strategy and it's a balance of power, the commercial price also, that adjust and change all of this.

You have probably heard an "information" that a PS5 Pro will launch alongside the PS5 [...]. According to all the feedback that I had from the industry, I can tell you that there will be one PS5, and only one. But be careful, there may be several version with variable disk size, [...] but there won't be a PS5 and a PS5 Pro at launch. Or else, it would mean that Sony, now to date, still didn't mention it with developers, that across the world no one is working on it. [...] which won't be the case for Microsoft.

According to my information, yes, there will be another next-gen Xbox. Let's call it Lockhart, that is the current code name. And besides, according to many developers, that have mentioned to me this thing, in the facts Microsoft says that to port a game from the Xbox Series X to the Lockhart will be very easy, and effectively the kit is the same, it's just a mode and another one. However, everyone that spoke to me about it, told me, in reality, it's more complicated than this, it needs more working time and they are a bit annoyed by this. This is the echoes I had. So, on the one hand, we have the PS5 with only one model that will probably be a little less powerful than Xbox Series X but maybe easier to apprehend for developers, and on the other hand Xbox Series X one more powerful and the other less powerful [than PS5] that will force developers to make adjustments that are not done in a snap, which is what Microsoft says.

I think Microsoft value proposition is very interesting. Having two models and the possibility to play on PC (and the future cloud gaming service Project xCloud) will give the customer the choice on which hardware/platform they want to play according to their financial capacity. That is very smart.

Sony, having only one model, doesn't want to segment its user base and want to make sure that everyone gets to play the same game with the same visual fidelity level and experience.

In any case, I personally strongly believe that the hardware is not that important, it's the game offering (quality and quantity) that will make a difference unless you are only interested in the technical aspect of a game. In the latter case, you should go for the high-end Xbox Series X or build your own PC.

 

[Sosokrates]

I mean, is an advanced high-quality thermal paste possible? Doesn't seem too far-fetched though right? And maybe a bigger fan too.

The shape of the XSX would allow for thicker heatsink and optimal airflow, without having to use a blower design.
There's a reason why the Xbox hardware engineers choose that shape over the traditional set top box shape. Phil said to them "design a console any way you wish in order to achieve power"

 

[Agnostic2020]

Hello to all NeoGAF members.

I just got registered and approved but have been reading this thread for a while now. I became quite addicted to it.

I would like to share some information about the PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X and rumoured Xbox Series S, that was confirmed to a French veteran journalist, Julien Chièze, from his sources in a YouTube video. He's been independent for a couple of years now but has still very strong relations with people working (including developers) in the industry. I trust him because he is very precautious with the information he shares. He's not the kind of journalist that will spread rumours or fake news.

I'd like to recap here some of the points that were confirmed to him by his sources. I will be quoting his saying and try to provide the best English translation possible.









I think Microsoft value proposition is very interesting. Having two models and the possibility to play on PC (and the future cloud gaming service Project xCloud) will give the customer the choice on which hardware/platform they want to play according to their financial capacity. That is very smart.

Sony, having only one model, doesn't want to segment its user base and want to make sure that everyone gets to play the same game with the same visual fidelity level and experience.

In any case, I personally strongly believe that the hardware is not that important, it's the game offering (quality and quantity) that will make a difference unless you are only interested in the technical aspect of a game. In the latter case, you should go for the high-end Xbox Series X or build your own PC.

welcome to the site. not to pick on you but this is basically all the old info we had with few mistakes in there. RT has been inside PS5 devkits since last April. so what he says that recently its RDNA2(with RT) doesn't make much sense . also target spec was finalized and sent with V shape dev kit since april 2019 for PS5. so since then most dev have that target specs and target specs for XSX has been out since jan 2019. so changing devkit revisions doesn't change target specs. which is what matters most for the devs.

Also the bit about sony being unhappy at AMD about PS5 after they hear about XSX sounds fan-boyish non sense. both these companies see exactly what AMD has and based on their budget they order. so if sony went with cheaper gpu and MS went with more expensive, how can , say in a meeting, sony be mad at AMD for getting a weaker GPU for cheaper price? which makes that sentence nonsense .Its like i order a base BMW 3 series and my buddy gets a BMW M3 for double the price, then i go and get mad at BMW for doing that.lol

Basically everyone since last year knows the TF count on these two machines based on target specs given by MS and sony to 3rd parties. which one is higher ? no one knows but even both sony and MS dont seem too confident to call their consoles most powerful console yet( Sony remians to be seen what they call it but MS calls it "our most powerful console")

 

[DrDamn]

Rdnaflops and whatnot

I cant wait to see the first set of racing games for these consoles, I want sim ones, I want arcade ones and I want some new crashy ones, anyone else?

Would like to see something of a resurgence in the racing genre, as it took something of a beating - at least in terms of popularity - this gen. More variety and invention in the arcade racer space please. Motorstorm remasters or spiritual successor of some sort too.

I want Burnout Revenge ones.

Takedown was always the go to for splitscreen with friends for me (Road rage mode). Great fun.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I will never, ever, ever understand what the fuck they were even going for with that X prototype... it makes zero sense, and the more I look, the more horrors I see...

Just don't stare at the middle hole for too long.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Just don't stare at the middle hole for too long.

 

[Shambala]

I’m ready for another week of disappointment lol

 

[TGO]

Image is mesmerizing

I don't know, it gives me a headache

 

[Bo_Hazem]

 

[David Ricardo]

HBM isn't in, haven't heard even a whisper about it. I haven't really had chance to chat with *anybody* this weekend for obvious reasons, but nah, its been DDR6 all the way for ages. HBM would be a big deal, and people would be singing about it if that was the case. That's all just opinion though. I mean, it could be, and its a massive secret, but then... Why?

Also I just want to point out something... Somebody mentioned just about how TF isn't really the driving force here and I have to agree, I've been saying it for a while. The trouble with performance like this, is that to see any substantial gains over a competitor, you don't just need a, say, 1-2tf differential. That actually isn't enough to do much of anything, besides maybe a slight boost in resolution or a few digits on FPS. At this level of performance, you would need massive gaps. As you increase your raw base power, it takes more and more power to actually make any serious jumps worth a damn. I won't do the math, because to be quite honest when I did it myself, I just laughed, but... Think about a 12tf baseline, and that 4k/30 is the standard there. Now, what power would you need for a hypothetical "pro" upgrade at 8k/30? Its... Wow... And this is why both companies are hitting so hard on reconstruction this generation. If you can render a 1440p image, and have it look near indistinguishable from a 4k image, you just saved a THIRD in raw performance that can be used for other things.

Anyway, as I was saying, before rambling on...

At this level, lets say 11.6 - 12.X, or 12.X - 12.4, as an example... You wont actually see any notable gains, anywhere, on raw TF performance alone. That's why its funny to see so many hardcore fanboys dancing around these numbers like it matters, because, even if your box is the lower number in this case... It wont matter a damn, at all. But what WILL matter? The other parts. That SSD being what I'm told is about 1-1.5gb/sec faster, its not much, but add it to the "sawce" pool. The memory being possibly clocked higher? Add it to the "saws" pool. (oh and BTW, I keep seeing SX has 13gb memory? I don't know where you have seen that but that's not the case, I believe that was based on ancient, ancient data.) These are the things that will actually show a difference. And that's why I keep hammering these points home...

YES. The consoles will be on par. NO. There wont be a massive difference between the two. But also YES. Each console will have its own strengths and weaknesses.

I guess we will find out more this week, huh.

About SX having 13GB ram. That comes from windows central specs published just before the game awards. Those said SX had 16 GB Ram (13 available for games). So it lines up perfectly with what you have heard.

 

[Sosokrates]

What might be a bigger difference is if Sony launch with games made exclusively for the PS5.
Ms will have to design halo infinite, Forza 8 etc to be able to scale up to XSX, or the visuals will be vastly better on PS5 exclusives.
Halo infinite/Forza 8 are going to need to same kind of differences gears1 on the 360 and gears1 remastered on the X1 had. Just bumping the Res, the FPS up and adding Raytracing will be nice but they will look comparable to how control looks maxed out on a 2080ti.
To be competitive visually turn 10 and 343 will need to do a lot of specific work , like adding new textures, higher poly models, additional detail and effects.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

About SX having 13GB ram. That comes from windows central specs published just before the game awards. Those said SX had 16 GB Ram (13 available for games). So it lines up perfectly with what you have heard.

The SX won’t have 13gb for games. It will have either 16+4/8 or 16+something else. It won’t limit it to 13gb, it would be suicide, even more so against a higher memory PS5. The speeds are up for debate, yes, but I highly, highly doubt they would be this short sighted but in the ball with everything else, even more so when this is the exact same misstep that happened last gen (banking on Sony only having 4gb, switched to 8gb).

In fact o wouldn’t be surprised to see either console bump that 16gb up even. Even last gen, 2 years ago, 16gb for games was pushing it. I see no reason why a machine that has to last another 6-8 years would be stuck with an such a low figure, when everything else is top shelf. Even more so when you think about memory being so important at such high resolutions (both screen and asset).

 

[DeeDogg_]

I just want killzone 2 E3 levels of graphics! Can anyone tell me with these specs, if that would be possible now?

That and more

 

[Neo Blaster]

Would like to see something of a resurgence in the racing genre, as it took something of a beating - at least in terms of popularity - this gen. More variety and invention in the arcade racer space please. Motorstorm remasters or spiritual successor of some sort too.



Takedown was always the go to for splitscreen with friends for me (Road rage mode). Great fun.

RT and better fps, thanks to the new CPUs, will do wonders to this genre.

 

[Sosokrates]

Would like to see something of a resurgence in the racing genre, as it took something of a beating - at least in terms of popularity - this gen. More variety and invention in the arcade racer space please. Motorstorm remasters or spiritual successor of some sort too.



Takedown was always the go to for splitscreen with friends for me (Road rage mode). Great fun.

Have you tried this?

It is the most motorstorm game this gen, it's really good.

 

[Tarkus98]

Have you tried this?

It is the most motorstorm game this gen, it's really good.

I believe this is made by the same team of people that created Motorstorm and DriveClub (Rushy and his gang)