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[DForce]

That's not evidence, that's assumption and speculation lol.

It is.
Digital Foundry talked about this in their video. This was the presentation.



You keep thinking performance will be minimal. People are are saying PS5 is impressive in its own way are mainly talking about this.

 

[Hobbygaming]

People seem to not get my point.

True, RDNA 2.0 can get to higher clocks, but then again those ARE NOT base clocks. It's not the same saying "peaks of 2.2 Ghz" than "constant 2.2 Ghz". You have a lower base in the first and a base clock at the latter.

If you need to code something that's time-dependant, it's easier to write an expected response when you have a constant clock speed. You can have physics processing in X cycle and sound in Y cycle knowing fully well how long will it take for X cycle to output a result and Y cycle to output a result. You can't have that on variable clock rates.

Developers can

The ssd wont help it apart from loading times.
The PS5 should be able to do TLOU2 in native 4k60fps, but im not expecting much more enhancements.

ND's next game utilizing the SSD is going to be insane

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

I don't know what you smoking there, you went from 8 cores to 11 and now 20 . You PlayStation fanboys love making stuff up on the fly .

8 core ryzen cpu + custom i/o with over 11 ryzen core equivalent performance at its tasks.

 

[Sosokrates]

Naughty Dog insists that PS5 will be a breakthrough in video game creation

We dont know if he thinks its a breakthrough compared to the XSX, he could think the xsx is a breakthrough to.
Im pretty sure he is comparing the ps5 to current gen.

 

[Reindeer]

It is.
Digital Foundry talked about this in their video. This was the presentation.



You keep thinking performance will be minimal. People are are saying PS5 is impressive in its own way are mainly talking about this.

This video has nothing to do with gaming and doesn't prove anything you said. You getting desperate now posting random videos and all.

 

[Reindeer]

8 core ryzen cpu + custom i/o with over 11 ryzen core equivalent performance at its tasks.

I like how you do that math to get it to 20 cores .

 

[quest]

Nt

 

[Sosokrates]

Developers can

ND's next game utilizing the SSD is going to be insane

No doubt, but lets not put all emphasis on the ssd, it is after all only one piece of the pie.

 

[DForce]

That video has nothing to do with gaming and doesn't prove anything you said. You getting desperate now posting random videos and all.

Digital Foundry talked about a random video?

This was the exact information they used in their video.

You're really trying hard to push away any information that backs up what I'm saying.

When a person says the difference between both consoles are staggering, you say this.

Obvious is obvious

If the video was irrelevant, they wouldn't brother using it in their analysis video.


It's right here, you can see it. DF goes into detail with AMD's presentation I liked before.

The video is timestamped

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

I like how you do that math to get it to 20 cores .

Guestimating there. It is over 11 ryzen core likely. They said one part of the i/o was 9 cores, another was 1-2 cores, but there are 3-4 other parts of the i/o for which they gave no estimate.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

ND's next game utilizing the SSD is going to be insane

I'll wait until we see how TLoU2 turns out, they did have a serious brain drain over the last few years... and to be honest so far this get I have not liked their output at all, Uncharted 4, and its DLC did not feel like Uncharted at all, the woking of these games really hurt them.... and now they are woke, yet they manage their teams in ways that incentivise people to leave (well maybe it's the wokeness, the few times I had interview in companies where they had those diversity and inclusion statements I did not feel like I belonged there.

But yeah, this thing is a game changer (assuming it is all it seems to be), I wish Sony made a demo comparing a game made for their setup with one that has half the bandwidth... just to see how it turns out.

 

[Reindeer]

Digital Foundry talked about a random video?

This was the exact information they used in their video.

You're really trying hard to push away any information that shows that I'm true.

But when a person says the difference between both consoles are staggering, you say this.



If the video was irrelevant, they wouldn't brother using it in their analysis video.


It's right here, you can see it. DF goes into detail with AMD's presentation I liked before.

Show me impact on gaming performance. DF are just talking about SSDs in general, not comparing 2.4GBs and 5.5GBs NVMe drives and their impact on performance. You trying to convince that Steve is a white male while talking about Mendes from Mexico.

 

[Barakov]

20-25% power difference isn't staggering.

 

[DForce]

Show me impact on gaming performance. DF are just talking about SSDs in general, not comparing 2.4GBs and 5.5GBs NVMe drives.

The SSD is in the GPU (which which helps with its memory).
The video is talking about how it will change gaming.
The performance shows a comparison when rendering (which videos games do in real time).
The SSD is obviously faster in the PS5, which means more and high quality data.

But wait, but now you want proof it it running, but you think it's obvious that both consoles have a staggering difference without seeing it.

Sounds like conformation bias.

 

[quest]

I'll wait until we see how TLoU2 turns out, they did have a serious brain drain over the last few years... and to be honest so far this get I have not liked their output at all, Uncharted 4, and its DLC did not feel like Uncharted at all, the woking of these games really hurt them.... and now they are woke, yet they manage their teams in ways that incentivise people to leave (well maybe it's the wokeness, the few times I had interview in companies where they had those diversity and inclusion statements I did not feel like I belonged there.

But yeah, this thing is a game changer (assuming it is all it seems to be), I wish Sony made a demo comparing a game made for their setup with one that has half the bandwidth... just to see how it turns out.

It's not a game changer even the nd guy quoted 100 times admits it is mostly for first parties. Game changer would all games not just first party. Sure multiplatform might get a few small benefits but hardly anything that is a game changer since they are coding for a PC sata SSD for the baseline. Even when they code to nvme drives they won't have decompression units so can't code to those. First party I'm sure Sony will do cool things the rest of games it will sit half used or less.

 

[Reindeer]

The SSD is in the GPU (which which helps with its memory).
The video is talking about how it will change gaming.
The performance shows a comparison when rendering (which videos games do in real time).
The SSD is obviously faster in the PS5, which means more and high quality data.

But wait, but now you want proof it it running, but you think it's obvious that both consoles have a staggering difference without seeing it.

Sounds like conformation bias.

Again, those are theoretical estimations, which could be very different to how it impacts gaming performance. You trying to do 1:1 math and that's not exactly how it always works.

You bring nothing but opinion and speculation and then accuse me of confirmation bias LOL.

 

[MaulerX]

This is an ex Sony dev. Interesting,

 

[DForce]

Again, those are theoretical estimations, which could be very different to how it impacts gaming performance. You trying to do 1:1 math and that's not exactly how it always works.

You bring nothing but opinion and speculation and then accuse me of confirmation bias LOL.

Both Sony and MS talk about how it will change the way games are made.

You're trying to tell me that it might not even be that much of a difference.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

It's not a game changer even the nd guy quoted 100 times admits it is mostly for first parties. Game changer would all games not just first party. Sure multiplatform might get a few small benefits but hardly anything that is a game changer since they are coding for a PC sata SSD for the baseline. Even when they code to nvme drives they won't have decompression units so can't code to those. First party I'm sure Sony will do cool things the rest of games it will sit half used or less.

While we don't know exactly how third party devs will handle this, there is always a way to make the game much more detailed when more bandwidth is available. If the PS5 has a significant market share advantage this will happen, some games will be designed around it - and PCs will have faster nvme in the coming years, or some similar setup on their GPU. People will just sit there not asking anything when we have the next God of War/Spiderman/TLoU etc. that is head and shoulders above everything else?

You already have access to all games that will be made for the xbox sx, why do you even want it so much? frame rate? etc.? this is nice and all, but hardly ground breaking, the console is literally looking at the past in its design.

 

[Hobbygaming]

No doubt, but lets not put all emphasis on the ssd, it is after all only one piece of the pie.

Of course, Zen 2 CPU cores, free memory from less duplication (SSD), custom Navi GPU, less bottlenecks (SSD) and the geometry engine

ND is about to put in work

 

[Reindeer]

Both Sony and MS talk about how it will change the way games are made.

You're trying to tell me that it might not even be that much of a difference.

For the millionth time, I agree it changes the way games are made, it's the difference between PS5 vs Series SSD that I don't agree with you. I don't get what so difficult to understand about this. SSDs change the way games are made, yes, but how much will faster SSD matter is not something you can measure or bring proof of. I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

 

[DForce]

For the millionth time, I agree it changes the way games are made, it's the difference between PS5 vs Series SSD that I don't agree with you. I don't get what so difficult to understand about this. SSDs change the way games are made, yes, but how much will faster SSD matter is not something you can measure or bring proof of. I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

Lets see here.

How is it obvious that the difference between both consoles are staggering?

 

[Sosokrates]

Of course, Zen 2 CPU cores, free memory from less duplication (SSD), custom Navi GPU, less bottlenecks (SSD) and the geometry engine

ND is about to put in work

Hopefully all the devs are.

 

[Reindeer]

Lets see here.

How is it obvious that the difference between both consoles are staggering?

I wasn't agreeing with the dev's use of the word "staggering", but rather agreeing with his motion that Series X is more powerful. And "staggering could mean lots of things, for once he was replying to Alex's view that RT will be much better on Series X, so "staggering" could be referring to RT performance along with overall performance.

I would say Series X has a decent advantage over PS5 in terms of power and I'm open to see how much PS5 can claw back with that SSD. For now I can't say PS5 SSD will make much difference to claw that power back because there's not data out there to prove that.

 

[Sosokrates]

Lets see here.

How is it obvious that the difference between both consoles are staggering?

Its not. Nevermind obvious, there is nothing suggesting it besides speculation. However gpu, cpu and ram difference are known entity and the differences in performance these things produce is known.

 

[DForce]

I wasn't agreeing with the dev's use of the word "staggering", but rather agreeing with his motion that Series X is more powerful. And "staggering could mean lots of things, for once he was replying to Alex's view that RT will be much better on Series X, so "staggering" could be referring to RT performance along with overall performance.

So you haven't seen how far better the RT is, only going by numbers and what people are saying.

But when I pull up numbers about the SSD on the PS5 being much better, you say we haven't seen proof.

This is not getting anywhere. You're going to downplay it no matter what. lol

 

[DForce]

Its not. Nevermind obvious, there is nothing suggesting it besides speculation. However gpu, cpu and ram difference are known entity and the differences in performance these things produce is known.

It could be or it can't. Since devs are saying things different things, then I can wait and see. I know GPU is better and providing more consistent 4K image on the XsX, but I also know that SSD will provide a lot of fast data based on the speed of the SSD alone.

If Mark Cerny wanted to target a high speed to accomplish their goal, then that means anything slower would be a problem.

 

[Reindeer]

So you haven't seen how far better the RT is, only going by numbers and what people are saying.

But when I pull up numbers about the SSD on the PS5 being much better, you say we haven't seen proof.

This is not getting anywhere. You're going to downplay it no matter what. lol

Because we have factual evidence of RT in use. I'm going with facts and not assumptions, unlike you.

 

[TheGreatYosh]

From the info we have it seems like the PS5 is actually capable of using the SSD for "virtual RAM". The Microsoft Tower doesn't appear to be built with that in mind even though they are the ones touting it.

 

[CJY]

From the info we have it seems like the PS5 is actually capable of using the SSD for "virtual RAM". The Microsoft Tower doesn't appear to be built with that in mind even though they are the ones touting it.

Yep.
XSX: Poor Man's PC

 

[Reindeer]

From the info we have it seems like the PS5 is actually capable of using the SSD for "virtual RAM". The Microsoft Tower doesn't appear to be built with that in mind even though they are the ones touting it.

It's light years behind even GDDR3 ram on base Xbox One in terms of speed and you gonna use it as a capable ram? SMH.

 

[quest]

Its not. Nevermind obvious, there is nothing suggesting it besides speculation. However gpu, cpu and ram difference are known entity and the differences in performance these things produce is known.

Until Sony publishes a chart on the variable clocks we don't know how low it goes. Until we get later into the generation when games push these systems to the limit we don't know how bad it will get. Variable clocks and the extreme overclock are the esram of this generation as I see it. I could careless if the PS5 was little under powered if it was stable clocks and not hot as the sun where it needs to lower clocks under heavy load.

 

[Sosokrates]

It could be or it can't. Since devs are saying things different things, then I can wait and see. I know GPU is better and providing more consistent 4K image on the XsX, but I also know that SSD will provide a lot of fast data based on the speed of the SSD alone.

If Mark Cerny wanted to target a high speed to accomplish their goal, then that means anything slower would be a problem.

Yeah, but even without knowing how much difference the ps5s ssd will have in comparison to the xsxs ssd, it will only effect PS5 exclusives, so 3rd parties will likely look and perform better on the XSX.
We can also speculate on any potential advantage, for all we know the ram and texture compression is far better on the XSX or its ray tracing caperbilities. But i dont see the point on speculated on the things we dont know other than attempting to downplay the clear hardware advantage the xsx has.

Sony die hards, it time to let it go, its time accept the truth, I know its hard but you can do it.

 

[farmerboy]

Yeah, but even without knowing how much difference the ps5s ssd will have in comparison to the xsxs ssd, it will only effect PS5 exclusives, so 3rd parties will likely look and perform better on the XSX.
We can also speculate on any potential advantage, for all we know the ram and texture compression is far better on the XSX or its ray tracing caperbilities. But i dont see the point on speculated on the things we dont know other than attempting to downplay the clear hardware advantage the xsx has.

Sony die hards, it time to let it go, its time accept the truth, I know its hard but you can do it.

How long it take you to let it go? I'll guess around 7 years.

 

[Sosokrates]

How long it take you to let it go? I'll guess around 7 years.

I had nothing to let go, i knew the ps4 was more powerful and the 1X was more powerful and the XSX is more powerful.

 

[DForce]

Yeah, but even without knowing how much difference the ps5s ssd will have in comparison to the xsxs ssd, it will only effect PS5 exclusives, so 3rd parties will likely look and perform better on the XSX.
We can also speculate on any potential advantage, for all we know the ram and texture compression is far better on the XSX or its ray tracing caperbilities. But i dont see the point on speculated on the things we dont know other than attempting to downplay the clear hardware advantage the xsx has.

Sony die hards, it time to let it go, its time accept the truth, I know its hard but you can do it.

There no die hard here. I said before that my first console this gen was an Xbox and I wasn't the one hyping up the CPU advantage for the console. I actually came into this generation a primary Xbox gamer and before, that, I rarely played game son my PS3. I was all Xbox.

i dont see the point on speculated on the things we dont know other than attempting to downplay the clear hardware advantage the xsx has.

But you're been doing this and that's the point.

I think the level of difference the PS5 SSD will make compared to the XSXs will be non existent.

I can admit clear advantages.

Somehow, from Xbox guys claim that Sony guys are downplay something, they try to make it appear like the SSD is nothing more than just load times.

 

[SentientStone]

The PS5 has better character and inner beauty... she’s just a bit shy in flaunting the goods like an uncultured brute.

 

[DForce]

Oh, and about the Sony die hard comment.

I love PlayStation games. They interest me more than most games this generation. If they were to release their games on PC day one, then I would no longer be console gamer outside of a Nintendo Switch and old retro games.

I know developers are going to do a lot more outside of gaming outside Teraflops.

When I heard that they can drop high quality assets in front of you in an instant, then that gets me to think about cut-scene models being used during actual gameplay.

 

[CJY]

It's light years behind even GDDR3 ram on base Xbox One in terms of speed and you gonna use it as a capable ram? SMH.

Dude, every time I read your posts they seem to have some weird errors that makes me think if you actually know what you're talking about at all. Xbox One had DDR3 RAM, not GDDR3.

I'm not sure if Cerny even mentioned anything about "Virtual RAM", maybe he did, but he certainly wasn't talking about it like it was some hot new shit like MS was talking about it.

Just because you can't see how having such a fast SSD combined with Sony's fast IO subsystem can't benefit graphics and what you see on screen doesn't mean anything, because you clearly have no interest in exploring the possibility that PS5 may indeed be a far more sophisticated and superior machine.

Have you ever heard of Radeon SSG (Solid State Graphics)? I suggest looking into if you haven't. Here a link for quick reference:

https://www.amd.com/en/products/professional-graphics/radeon-pro-ssg

It's a $10k card, and it's not for gaming, but Sony's SSD solution is going for this exact concept and it's truly revolutionary in the console space. MS's solution is an attempt to fool everyone and compensate for the lack of RAM. Two totally different approaches.

 

[Sosokrates]

There no die hard here. I said before that my first console this gen was an Xbox and I wasn't the one hyping up the CPU advantage for the console. I actually came into this generation a primary Xbox gamer and before, that, I rarely played game son my PS3. I was all Xbox.




But you're been doing this and that's the point.



I can admit clear advantages.

Somehow, from Xbox guys claim that Sony guys are downplay something, they try to make it appear like the SSD is nothing more than just load times.

I acknowledge that on paper the PS5 has a faster SSD, which will produce faster load times but we dont know if it will translate to more technically sophisticated visuals, theres just to many variables that ive stated many times. But it boils down to the ps5 streaming about 4gb per 0.5 seconds and the xsx can stream 2gb per 0.5 seconds and thats not taking into account the extra 112gb/s ram bandwidth or the fact that assets which can be streamed from the ssd will be limited, ssd streaming will only be viable for things like textures and if the textures are anything like the ones on the hellblade 2 demo, the returns of better textures on the ps5 are going to be greatly diminished, the texture in that hellblade 2 demo are CGi quality.

 

[Sosokrates]

Dude, every time I read your posts they seem to have some weird errors that makes me think if you actually know what you're talking about at all. Xbox One had DDR3 RAM, not GDDR3.

I'm not sure if Cerny even mentioned anything about "Virtual RAM", maybe he did, but he certainly wasn't talking about it like it was some hot new shit like MS was talking about it.

Just because you can't see how having such a fast SSD combined with Sony's fast IO subsystem can't benefit graphics and what you see on screen doesn't mean anything, because you clearly have no interest in exploring the possibility that PS5 may indeed be a far more sophisticated and superior machine.

Have you ever heard of Radeon SSG (Solid State Graphics)? I suggest looking into if you haven't. Here a link for quick reference:

https://www.amd.com/en/products/professional-graphics/radeon-pro-ssg

It's a $10k card, and it's not for gaming, but Sony's SSD solution is going for this exact concept and it's truly revolutionary in the console space. MS's solution is an attempt to fool everyone and compensate for the lack of RAM. Two totally different approaches.

What?did you even watch cernys ps5 video?
He has a whole segment about the ssd being a game changer and streaming entire render scenes from the ssd.
Also how exactly is 4gb vs 2gb for 0.5 seconds going to improve visuals drastically when memory (ssd) of these speeds is limited to what it can be used for?

 

[CJY]

What?did you even watch cernys ps5 video?
He has a whole segment about the ssd being a game changer and streaming entire render scenes from the ssd.

what does whether or not I've seen Cerny's video have to do with anything?

 

[Sosokrates]

what does whether or not I've seen Cerny's video have to do with anything?

Because you said cerny was not talking up the ssd like ms was.
Cerny talked up his ssd way more. Which is no bad thing. but i would of liked to have seen some demos demonstrating what he was talking about.

 

[CJY]

Because you said cerny was not talking up the ssd like ms was.
Cerny talked up his ssd way more. Which is no bad thing. but i would of liked to have seen some demos demonstrating what he was talking about.

Sony talked it up a lot more because it's a more thorough and complete system with large ramifications for the future of game design.

MS: "Here's a faster HD - brought to you by Seagate"

 

[DForce]

I acknowledge that on paper the PS5 has a faster SSD, which will produce faster load times but we dont know if it will translate to more technically sophisticated visuals, theres just to many variables that ive stated many times. But it boils down to the ps5 streaming about 4gb per 0.5 seconds and the xsx can stream 2gb per 0.5 seconds and thats not taking into account the extra 112gb/s ram bandwidth or the fact that assets which can be streamed from the ssd will be limited, ssd streaming will only be viable for things like textures and if the textures are anything like the ones on the hellblade 2 demo, the returns of better textures on the ps5 are going to be greatly diminished, the texture in that hellblade 2 demo are CGi quality.

But again, to the video.

It's mentioned in the video how the SSD should have a multiplier effect when it comes to memory.

And John says this.

We're only seeing a 2x jump in terms of the amount of memory in the system, which is historically very low for the console space, but because of this new SSD technology, this sort of offsets that issue entirely because the approach how memory is filled can completely change

Seems like what they're saying is that yes, both SSD's are fast, but the SSD technology allows for more bigger data within that 0.5 second. If the XsX data is unable to transfer data within the time frame, then the size can be reduced to help, thus giving the PS5 some higher quality assets.

 

[Reindeer]

thus giving the PS5 some higher quality assets.

Highly unlikely as Series X has access to higher bandwidth when it comes GPU Ram (560GBs) where those high quality assets are going to be stored. Faster Ram is more important in this case. Microsoft likely went for higher bandwidth Ram for GPU because by doing that they could overcome a lot of the difference in SSD speeds. All Series X needs is fast enough SSD to feed that Ram and 2.4GBs (4.8 compressed) should be more than enough. So all this SSD talk might not be as meaningful as people think.

 

[Sosokrates]

Sony talked it up a lot more because it's a more thorough and complete system with large ramifications for the future of game design.

MS: "Here's a faster HD - brought to you by Seagate"

This is just plain false.
The digital foundry video talked about it quite thoroughly.

 

[Sosokrates]

But again, to the video.

It's mentioned in the video how the SSD should have a multiplier effect when it comes to memory.

And John says this.




Seems like what they're saying is that yes, both SSD's are fast, but the SSD technology allows for more bigger data within that 0.5 second. If the XsX data is unable to transfer data within the time frame, then the size can be reduced to help, thus giving the PS5 some higher quality assets.

Yes thats what I said 4gb is double 2gb, and I see you did not address my other points. like the ram bandwidth advantage or what devs could use the extra 2gb for?

 

[Hobbygaming]

Engineer at Intel

 

[Gamerguy84]

This is an ex Sony dev. Interesting,

Im not here for console wars as I find them pretty dumb. This guy is team green though. I checked out his twitter.