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[MasterCornholio]

Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart PS5

Toy Story 1995

So just looking at the character models of the 1st Toy Story film and comparing it to the new Ratchet and Clank A Tear in Time PS5 game, does anyone think that we are close or do we have a really long ways to go to reach that level?

I thought it might be fun to look at these types of games and see how far the industry has evolved.

Edit:

Just for fun here's what Ratchet looked like in the first game.

Edit 2:

I wasn't expecting this thread to be so active. Thank you all for participating in it.

 

[Pandor]

Can you show me an in-game graphics gameplay character model? I mean cutscenes don’t mean much, IMHO.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Can you show me an in-game graphics gameplay character model? I mean cutscenes don’t mean much, IMHO.

I thought the cutscenes were being rendered real time on the hardware. Which is why I posted that image.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Going by the pics, the only thing R&C looks better is the fur texture. Toy Story looks better for everything else, including the background, which R&C is a blur.

 

[killatopak]

Going by the pics, the only thing R&C looks better is the fur texture. Toy Story looks better for everything else, including the background, which R&C is a blur.

That’s called depth of field.

 

[Danjin44]

People really need to stop comparing CGI to games, there is no game running in CGI, they don't have to worry about frame rate or even the animation looking good in every angle.

 

[RPSleon]

Toystory has some clipping issues, and the models arent as good, aswell as some questionable lighting in areas. Also that pillow in the background isnt great.

I think r&c looks better. Atleast in that shot.

Although toystories real strength is its ray tracing.

 

[TLZ]

Can you show me an in-game graphics gameplay character model? I mean cutscenes don’t mean much, IMHO.

That's in-game graphics gameplay.

 

[fran.fernandez]

I think ratchet already passed it .... is 4K.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Can you show me an in-game graphics gameplay character model? I mean cutscenes don’t mean much, IMHO.

So an in game cut scene running in real time vs. one giant 80 minute cut scene not running in real time is not a fair comparison?

 

[nkarafo]

Pretty sure Toy Story still has the higher poly-count.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The R&C pic has major lighting/reflection issues.

The metal thing on his chest and the big wrench he's holding are both reflecting a blu-ish light. The light rays look totally off as flat 180 degree rays that goes across about 2/3rds of the image.

The same type of flat reflection even though the metal chest part and wrench are at different angles.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart PS5

Toy Story 1995

So just looking at the character models of the 1st Toy Story film and comparing it to the new Ratchet and Clank A Tear in Time PS5 game, does anyone think that we are close or do we have a really long ways to go to reach that level?

I thought it might be fun to look at these types of games and see how far the industry has evolved.

A Tear of Time?
Anyway, real time graphics is definitely getting very close to CGI. At least the geometry and textures are almost identical while animations are getting much closer.

 

[Doczu]

Why are we always comparing next gen to ToyStory?
I couldn't wait for this thread.

 

[SirTerry-T]

Pretty sure Toy Story still has the higher poly-count.

They used NURBS if I remember correctly, though they would have been broken down into tris at the rendering stage, so your point still stands

 

[nkarafo]

Why are we always comparing next gen to ToyStory?
I couldn't wait for this thread.

Because Toy Story is the first (thus, oldest) proper CGI movie. And 90's kids were dreaming about videogame graphics reaching "Toy Story levels" for quite a while.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Why are we always comparing next gen to ToyStory?
I couldn't wait for this thread.

Because Toy Story is the first (thus, oldest) proper CGI movie. And 90's kids were dreaming about videogame graphics reaching "Toy Story levels" for quite a while.

And because of this:

A blast from the past! "Toy Story Graphics," the true source.

I was curious as to where "Toy Story Graphics" began, and came across this gem... PlayStation 2 Cometh After all the talk and speculation about the future of Sony's next console, Sony may be getting ready to unleash a gaming tsunami of epic proportions tomorrow when the company is...

www.neogaf.com

Microsoft got game: Xbox unveiled

The software giant's entry into the video game business will no doubt inspire a number of gimmicks, but it will be hard to top Bill Gates sharing a stage with a professional wrestler.

www.cnet.com

 

[Ma-Yuan]

Pretty sure Toy Story still has the higher poly-count.

Have you watched that movie recently? It doesn't hold up well compared to modern in game graphics. Also in the polygon department.

 

[DragoonWalker]

PS5 polycount is so high, close enough to CG to not matter for my eyes unlike PS2/3. Hard to compare tho, different art styles. Not technical person but can see some things are better and other things are worse. Clearly the lighting isn't as real in RC (no consistent/clear sources of lights, that's ray tracing I guess). But very pleasing aesthetically regardless. RC's textures/details/lighting choices make it appear very impressive even relative to Toy Story. It's much closer to a modern CG movie if you will.

Hell even KH3 this gen did great job approximating "the look" over all despite everything being way worse. Pleasing to look at, isn't that point of CG? This isn't like back when we fooled ourselves thinking FFVIII demo on PS2 was "close".

 

[Amey]

When Disney Pixar starts using Unreal Engine instead of Renderman you'll know RealTime graphics are finally there. Till then don't even ask.

 

[killatopak]

When Disney Pixar starts using Unreal Engine instead of Renderman you'll know RealTime graphics are finally there. Till then don't even ask.

Mandalorian uses Unreal Engine. Does that count?

 

[Knitted Knight]

We over that already. Insomniac finally been officially part of the family is such a relief. Non-stop content from them.

 

[Amey]

Mandalorian uses Unreal Engine. Does that count?

The screen projections are for reference backgrounds during the shoot. Helps the actors make sense of their surroundings. And camera catches good reflections and lighting on shiny surfaces. Everything gets tweaked and redone for final shots in post.

 

[DeepEnigma]

When Disney Pixar starts using Unreal Engine instead of Renderman you'll know RealTime graphics are finally there. Till then don't even ask.

Disney uses the Unreal Engine for The Mandalorian for the screen projections.

Edit: saw your next post.

And this is about the original Toy Story, not the advancements that have been made since. It’s kind of a running meme ever since Microsoft made the comment around the first Xbox.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

Out among the stars I sail, way beyond the moon
In my silver ship I sail, a dream that ended to soon
Now I know exactly who I am and what I'm here for
And I will go sailing no more
All the things I thought I'd be, all the brave things I'd done
Vanished like a snowflake with the rising of the sun
Never more to sail my ship, where no man has gone before
And I will go sailing no more
But no, it can't be true I could fly if I wanted to
Like a bird in the sky if I believe I can fly, why I'd fly
Clearly, I will go sailing, no more

 

[MightySquirrel]

You need pathtracing to beat even '95 cgi. Nvidia demos comes close with raytracing, so probably next gen [after ps5, xsx] we will have actual games that beat it. We will however have games that look flashier/way nicer looking than toy story from 95, this upcoming gen. You could say we already have games that look 'nicer' than toy story this gen.

 

[rofif]

Games look better even now

 

[Raonak]

For the most part, Ratchet looks better. The models, the materials, the lighting.

 

[JordanN]

PS5 polycount is so high, close enough to CG to not matter for my eyes unlike PS2/3. Hard to compare tho, different art styles. Not technical person but can see some things are better and other things are worse. Clearly the lighting isn't as real in RC (no consistent/clear sources of lights, that's ray tracing I guess). But very pleasing aesthetically regardless. RC's textures/details/lighting choices make it appear very impressive even relative to Toy Story. It's much closer to a modern CG movie if you will.

Hell even KH3 this gen did great job approximating "the look" over all despite everything being way worse. Pleasing to look at, isn't that point of CG? This isn't like back when we fooled ourselves thinking FFVIII demo on PS2 was "close".

Modern CG is much more photorealistic compared to video games.

Games are getting better but they are decades behind today's cinema.

The biggest takeaway is they still lack [high quality] ambient occlusion and shaders are less complex.

 

[SaucyJack]

How long did it take to render a frame of Toy Story?

 

[Doczu]

Because Toy Story is the first (thus, oldest) proper CGI movie. And 90's kids were dreaming about videogame graphics reaching "Toy Story levels" for quite a while.

And because of this:

A blast from the past! "Toy Story Graphics," the true source.

I was curious as to where "Toy Story Graphics" began, and came across this gem... PlayStation 2 Cometh After all the talk and speculation about the future of Sony's next console, Sony may be getting ready to unleash a gaming tsunami of epic proportions tomorrow when the company is...

www.neogaf.com

Microsoft got game: Xbox unveiled

The software giant's entry into the video game business will no doubt inspire a number of gimmicks, but it will be hard to top Bill Gates sharing a stage with a professional wrestler.

www.cnet.com

Guys, i know why it is, but comparing it to good old Toy Story got old, like the movie.
By polygon count we are still behind (maybe? Could be finally different)
By effects, lighting, particles, etc. We are on level/past TS1.

But hey, thats 1995, we should start using TS2 as an example

 

[bhunachicken]

You need pathtracing to beat even '95 cgi.

Nah, we're way past that now.

Renderman (Pixar, Toy Story) only supported very basic pathtracing back in 1995; they simply didn't have the resources to fit a fully pathtraced scene in memory. Examples of the limited pathtracing are reflections in bottles in A Bug's Life. The rest of it is standard rasterization techniques. Renderman was rewritten in in the past 10 years to as a pathtracer, the first movie to showcase it being Monsters University.

https://graphics.pixar.com/library/RendermanTog2018/paper.pdf

 

[bhunachicken]

How long did it take to render a frame of Toy Story?

45 minutes to 30 hours, depending on complexity.

 

[SaucyJack]

45 minutes to 30 hours, depending on complexity.

Thought so.

So we’re comparing a video game that renders 30 or maybe 60 frames per second with a movie that renders a frame in hours. Apples and oranges innit?

Toy Story still looks a bit better but R&C looks awesome, it’s the closest we’ve got.

 

[DeeDogg_]

buzz's shit eating grin always kills me

 

[DragoonWalker]

Modern CG is much more photorealistic compared to video games.

Games are getting better but they are decades behind today's cinema.

The biggest takeaway is they still lack [high quality] ambient occlusion and shaders are less complex.

Movies will always be ahead. Talking around relative to Toy Story 1, RC has that more modern, softer look. Lighting is not end all for visuals, especially if cartoony. RC is beginning to rival stuff like this aesthetic wise, despite technical gulf:

Inconceivable at any prior gen. RC might be limited by lighting, but is only "decades behind" if the aim is realism. Lots of other factors to consider.

 

[Damigos]

Ratchet is already better

 

[Soodanim]

The main part of what Toy Story still looks pleasing to the eye is how immaculately clean the image quality is (as well as the art style).

For me, Toy Story still looks better than RC. That's not to say R&C doesn't look fantastic, and as was said these games are rendering 30 frames per second as opposed to 30 frames per week.

I'd be interested to see Toy Story recreated in real time.

 

[namekuseijin]

Toy Story 1 had no raytracing, it had only blinn material shading (everything looked like plastic, even people)

But otoh, being rendered in batch with each frame easily consuming an hour or more, it had polygonal detail (their Renderman engine breaks every surface into polygons less than a pixel wide, so you never see edges) and artistic lighting in every corner (look at those rosy Woody's cheeks)

With UE5, we're getting there in level of detail and even without it, like in Ratchet, you can really notice hard edges anymore. We've had far more realistic shaders than just blinn even in current generation (metal, fur, subsurface scattering skins, volumetric clouds etc) and raytraced reflections plus dynamic GI are coming.

I'd say nextgen games have surpassed Toy Story 1 and 2 with real time graphics. But not later movies, obviously, which also incorporated these techniques and can still take their time to render...

 

[MightySquirrel]

Nah, we're way past that now.

Renderman (Pixar, Toy Story) only supported very basic pathtracing back in 1995; they simply didn't have the resources to fit a fully pathtraced scene in memory. Examples of the limited pathtracing are reflections in bottles in A Bug's Life. The rest of it is standard rasterization techniques. Renderman was rewritten in in the past 10 years to as a pathtracer, the first movie to showcase it being Monsters University.

https://graphics.pixar.com/library/RendermanTog2018/paper.pdf

I was talking about very demanding high quality raytracing needed in games to have near perfect reflections and shadows to have a chance to be comparable to even very old cgi from '95. Obviously CGI will always be decades ahead of video games.

 

[Schitt]

Whoa! This is amazing. These graphics. How is this even possible?

 

[kebaldo]

The R&C pic has major lighting/reflection issues.

The metal thing on his chest and the big wrench he's holding are both reflecting a blu-ish light. The light rays look totally off as flat 180 degree rays that goes across about 2/3rds of the image.

The same type of flat reflection even though the metal chest part and wrench are at different angles.

2 options: a very funny comment or the most powerful stretch to do console war on Ray Tracing lol
I can't stand e generational console war with people talking about rays lol (I'm a DOP but nobody needs to be it to understand that's a estetical choice)

Back on topic: R&C is actually better... Lol people need to re-watch Toy Story, a wonderful masterpiece... But time passes and I think we have catcher up. Even Kena looks better.

 

[ZywyPL]

I am yet so see the high quality vids, but I'd say we have reached the level where it's hard to imagine cartoony stylized games to look any better, R&C, Kena, Little Devil Inside etc. look way better than enough to mimic animated CGIs, everything is so damn sharp, clean and detailed.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

That’s called depth of field.

Rest in One Piece StreetsofBeige

 

[Orta]

We'll probably have to wait until the PS6/next Xbox releases in 2028 to be able to conclusively say their games look better than a computer generated movie made 33 year prior.

 

[JimiNutz]

Can you show me an in-game graphics gameplay character model? I mean cutscenes don’t mean much, IMHO.

Have you played R&C PS4?

 

[INC]

Just looking at the 2, RnC looks better to my eyes.

 

[farmerboy]

The R&C pic has major lighting/reflection issues.

The metal thing on his chest and the big wrench he's holding are both reflecting a blu-ish light. The light rays look totally off as flat 180 degree rays that goes across about 2/3rds of the image.

The same type of flat reflection even though the metal chest part and wrench are at different angles.

They're emitting that light, not reflecting it. The lens flare is exaggerated.

 

[Ahmady]

Not in-game gameplay though. So, doesn't matter much.

 

[chemical boy]

This comparison is useless, it would have to be compared with a gameplay model.