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[ToadMan]

I always thought the freak out over the leaks was a bit overblown. Pretty sure alot of the people hating on the game were never planning on buying it in the first place.

You know I watched the leaks "casually" (I mean just watched them once and didn't analyse the story in detail). I'm actually surprised that I don't think they make much difference to the storyline.

The 2 major bits of those leaks that I remember happen quite early in the game - the first 5 - 8 hours or so.

If anything those leaks make the game seem a bit more "basic" in terms of the story it's going to tell...

 

[ZehDon]

Pretty much sums up everything.

What a terrible take - "stop being emotional and look at things objectively"? For one, I'm guessing this person doesn't understand the meaning of the word "objective". Secondly, according to the game's director, all the years worth of work was all about the emotions:

Druckmann: “I saw one girl get to this sequence that took us a long time to get to land. And she’s bawling. I’m watching her, and I’m starting to cry because she’s crying, and I’m like, all these years of work for a couple-of-minutes sequence. It’s all for this—just to be able to get this person to feel this experience.”

If you have to stop being emotional to appreciate what is supposed to be an emotional experience, I'd say that's a colossal and unmitigated failure.

 

[DForce]

Not what I asked for.
Anyone can type anything on twitter. I want to witness genuine positive reactions. Can you help me find some of that?

Anyone can also click on his YouTube channel to get his reaction when he live streamed the game.

 

[samporter]

It comes with the territory anywhere user reviews are allowed, i.e. Metacritic, Steam, etc. The user reviews are less about a critical analysis of a game's merits, but rather about the general public (at least the more hardcore segment of it) sentiment behind the game, which is why you see a lot of 0/10 and 10/10 score, similar to the like/dislike ratio of Youtube.

If your game is mired in controversy or if you push a political agenda, it's potentially going to get review bombed by people who are not interested in your politics. However, the opposite can also be true. For example, look at Persona 4 Golden that just released on Steam. It has a 10/10 review score on Steam with nearly 12,000 reviews at the moment. It shows the general overwhelmingly positive sentiment the gaming populace has for the game. It's a beloved classic that released on a well-liked platform people have been requesting for a long time, at a very reasonable price. Both older fans who loved the game before and newer fans who never got to try it due to the previous platform exclusivity are enjoying it. It's a perfect positive storm, a stark contrast to TLOU2.

Good point about Persona 4 Golden on Steam. It's gotten an overwhelming positive rating from fans with over 12k reviews. Maybe we can take away something from this example. Maybe we can take away that games that aren't divisive, aren't pushing propaganda, aren't being prop up by the shill and dishonest game journalists don't have this review bomb problem.

and




In my experience the past couple of days, there's more streamers that didn't like it.

The difference with The last of us 2 with other AAA titles, is that when someone dislikes the game, usually they absolutely shit on it, so instead of getting just 7.5's or 8's, the game gets below 6 scores and the fanboys come crying in rage using words like nazis and bigots to explain.

This game leans heavily on story, honestly you are playing a stealth shooter with a controller at 30fps against blind and stupid a.i, the best thing (in my opinion) about the gameplay is inventory management, and that has a problem in itself because it ends up making you walk around like a moron for hours in empty buildings looking for shit so you can craft stuff. So when the story to someone is absolute garbage, the game only has graphics left to save and that's not enough.

She loves anything that has social justice. I don't think her opinion reflect much of the general gaming population.

 

[DForce]

What a terrible take - "stop being emotional and look at things objectively"? For one, I'm guessing this person doesn't understand the meaning of the word "objective". Secondly, according to the game's director, all the years worth of work was all about the emotions:

If you have to stop being emotional to appreciate what is supposed to be an emotional experience, I'd say that's a colossal and unmitigated failure.

Neil said The Last of Us Part II is going to be divisive. He aid people who liked the first game probably won't like the second game.

Spoiler: STORY SPOILERS

People hate the fact that Joel died, but there's people who can't accept the fact that he was never a good guy. His decision cost millions of lives. Everything that's happening in the game is a result of that decision. Abby's revenge is justified just as much as Ellie's.

 

[lock2k]

Neil said The Last of Us Part II is going to be divisive. He aid people who liked the first game probably won't like the second game.

Spoiler: STORY SPOILERS

People hate the fact that Joel died, but there's people who can't accept the fact that he was never a good guy. His decision cost millions of lives. Everything that's happening in the game is a result of that decision. Abby's revenge is justified just as much as Ellie's.

Why make a sequel if people who liled the first one won't like the second? What kind of stupid reasoning is that? Neil is a massive tool.

 

[Falcs]

Anyone can also click on his YouTube channel to get his reaction when he live streamed the game.

I'm not going to wade through multiple hour long videos.
On the other hand, it's really easy to find multiple negative reactions to what I mentioned before with just a simple search string.

If the writing is so good, shouldn't it be just as easy to find multiple people showing genuine enjoyment in the points mentioned before?

I'm happy to be proven wrong. I just can't find them.

 

[DForce]

I'm not going to wade through multiple hour long videos.
On the other hand, it's really easy to find multiple negative reactions to what I mentioned before with just a simple search string.

If the writing is so good, shouldn't it be just as easy to find multiple people showing genuine enjoyment in the points mentioned before?

I'm happy to be proven wrong. I just can't find them.

His videos are numbered. All you have to do is look at the first video and his last video of his playthrough.

 

[Falcs]

Neil said The Last of Us Part II is going to be divisive. He aid people who liked the first game probably won't like the second game.

Spoiler: STORY SPOILERS

People hate the fact that Joel died, but there's people who can't accept the fact that he was never a good guy. His decision cost millions of lives. Everything that's happening in the game is a result of that decision. Abby's revenge is justified just as much as Ellie's.

Your spoiler shows you clearly do not understand the outrage.

It's not what happened that people are unhappy about, it's the execution. If the writing was good, it would have been done well, and no one would have a problem with it.

Perfect example is

Spoiler: Hint which might reveal major spoiler

Game of Thrones Season 1, with Ned, or the Red Wedding.

Same sort of thing happened, but the writing was great so no one complained.

 

[lock2k]

Your spoiler shows you clearly do not understand the outrage.

It's not what happened that people are unhappy about, it's the execution. If the writing was good, it would have been done well, and no one would have a problem with it.

Perfect example is

Spoiler: Hint which might reveal major spoiler

Game of Thrones Season 1, with Ned, or the Red Wedding.

Same sort of thing happened, but the writing was great so no one complained.

I bet Neil is one of thoses types who get off on people's hate. I can imagine him reading lots of comments or watching videos with one hand and jerking off with the other. He craves it.

 

[DForce]

Your spoiler shows you clearly do not understand the outrage.

The outrage happened after a few cutscenes were leaked. They didn't even know the story outside of a few fake 4chan leaks.


I understand the outrage. Many people complaining don't even know the full story, they just saw a few cutscenes.

 

[IfuckinghateReddit]

Neil said The Last of Us Part II is going to be divisive. He aid people who liked the first game probably won't like the second game.

I hated the ending of the first game, and disagreed with it on a moral level. I have had zero interest in the second. Druckmaam, as a writer, is shit.

 

[Bodomism]

Anyone who rates this game higher than 5/10 is BLM supporter.

 

[Falcs]

The outrage happened after a few cutscenes were leaked. They didn't even know the story outside of a few fake 4chan leaks.

I understand the outrage. Many people complaining don't even know the full story, they just saw a few cutscenes.

No. The outrage started when the cutscenes were leaked along with information on context.

I know because it was when my excitement for the game died, because I realised that the game's story had been ruined by, or rather based around identity politics.
The cutscenes alone were enough to suggest that this was the case. And the leaked information confirmed it.

You clearly do not get it.

The writing is shit. This is the reason for the outrage.

 

[ToadMan]

OK, I haven't read through this whole thread, but does anyone have any links to some steamers/Youtubers who reacted positively to

Spoiler: Major game spoiler

Joel's death

or to the game's ending?

I'm genuinely curious, coz I haven't seen any.
Hoping to see more than 1 or 2.

Because review bombing aside, all I can see is that aside from some in specific threads (like this one) and subreddits, the overwhelming majority of players are not happy with this shit game.

Why should anyone be "happy" about the death of a character they liked? That's the whole point - to provoke a response. So your point is a tautology - no one is happy about it because the character was popular.

It's part of the artistic process - the most powerful part - to take something popular and kill it and see where that takes the work.

The fact that people don't like it is exactly why it must happen. It's why stories like that endure while those Disney Star Wars movies where no one stays dead, are ridiculed and forgotten.

Look at Game of Thrones - the standout element in that was the death of various major characters and indeed the series went downhill when the remaining characters suddenly became immortal.

Even MGS killed Snake in it's best moment and then reanimated him which reduced the impact and made it forgettable.

It's this that will make this pair of games endure long after the metacritic bombing has been forgotten.

 

[ToadMan]

identity politics.

If this is your takeaway then you haven't played the game/followed the story.

There is 0 left wing identity politics in this game worthy of the name. Unless you feel that it's unrealistic that every white male character in the game is portrayed as a thougthful peace loving hero... that's about the most pandering done to any minority/ethnic group. There is literally not one "bad" white male developed character.

The narrative of TLOU 2 could be summed up as "peace loving heroic white males killed by crazed, nihilistic and psychotic women and minorities".

 

[ZehDon]

Spoiler: STORY SPOILERS

People hate the fact that Joel died, but there's people who can't accept the fact that he was never a good guy. His decision cost millions of lives. Everything that's happening in the game is a result of that decision. Abby's revenge is justified just as much as Ellie's.

Sure. Except the ending of TLOU was interpretive; Joel could be a good guy, or bad guy, depending on your interpretation. Both groups are justified. I'll add this:

Spoiler

Ellie not being the only immune person that the Fireflies vivisected lowers the impact of Joel's decisions immensely. In TLOU2, we seem humanity has already begun to bring itself back. Joel didn't doom humanity - he just delayed its return.
On top of this, Abby's Dad vivisected approximately a dozen living people, failing to provide a vaccine for the infection. How many of those are "justified" in seeking revenge? With this in mind, we see that Abby's justification is not an objective one, but a personal one - one that is inserted into an established narrative after the fact, all to... make people divisive over if a game is terrible? To tell us "violence is bad"? To make us feel bad?

The people who aren't on board with this game aren't so easily dismissed - there's legitimate issues being raised at a fundamental level.

 

[theclaw135]

Sure. Except the ending of TLOU was interpretive; Joel could be a good guy, or bad guy, depending on your interpretation. Both groups are justified. I'll add this:

Spoiler

Ellie not being the only immune person that the Fireflies vivisected lowers the impact of Joel's decisions immensely. In TLOU2, we seem humanity has already begun to bring itself back. Joel didn't doom humanity - he just delayed its return.
On top of this, Abby's Dad vivisected approximately a dozen living people, failing to provide a vaccine for the infection. How many of those are "justified" in seeking revenge? With this in mind, we see that Abby's justification is not an objective one, but a personal one - one that is inserted into an established narrative after the fact, all to... make people divisive over if a game is terrible? To tell us "violence is bad"? To make us feel bad?

The people who aren't on board with this game aren't so easily dismissed - there's legitimate issues being raised at a fundamental level.

Personal issues with the review bombers, that is.

 

[The_Mike]

You don't need to play the game to know if the game is bad because of the story. You are able to have an legit opinion about the story if you've watched the whole gameplay on youtube. Gameplay is a whole different story, as that is something you have to experience yourself.

And the story of the game surely is a mess.

I stopped in "you dont need to play the game" no Thanks
[/QUOTE]

Okay, that's alright.


Just remember, you're never allowed to have an opinion about a movie unless you watched in in the cinema.

Thats the same logic. Story is story, whether you watched it or played it.

 

[Kagey K]

All exclusives get review bombed, by salty other console owners.

This game isn’t special in that regard and pretending that it is makes you look foolish,

 

[DForce]

No. The outrage started when the cutscenes were leaked along with information on context.

I know because it was when my excitement for the game died, because I realised that the game's story had been ruined by, or rather based around identity politics.
The cutscenes alone were enough to suggest that this was the case. And the leaked information confirmed it.

You clearly do not get it.

The writing is shit. This is the reason for the outrage.

You're wrong, dude. lol.

This is the fake plot leak, that contains SOME spoilers.

Spoiler: Fake Plot Leak

Nearly everything is fake.

Spoiler: Context & Spoilers

Cutscenes that leaked

1. Joel's death
2. Playing as Abby to fight Ellie
3. Surgeon scene

People were upset that Joel died and you have to play as Abby. There was nothing confirmed outside of those cutscenes. People didn't like this idea without knowing the real plot.

 

[PlayerPurple]

I know because it was when my excitement for the game died, because I realised that the game's story had been ruined by, or rather based around identity politics.

TLOU2’s narrative, if anything, to me felt like a critique of the very idea of identity politics.

Case in point:

Spoiler

You’re led to believe those in the Jackson settlement are “the good guys” and the WLF are “the bad guys” because some of them killed Joel...only for the game to have you later explore the WLF from inside and realize how similar the two groups of people are. Jackson perceives Joel’s death as murder, WLF perceives Joel’s death as justice. The point is that both sides think they’re ”in the right” when objectively, neither one is.

The above point is further proven when Abby’s lack of fulfillment from her vengeance on Joel leads her to care for two Seraphites, the third faction in this triangular rivalry. Abby, the WLF’s top Seraphite killer, stops seeing them as enemies, partly because her lover (Owen) does and partly because one (Lev) saves her life. Although Abby & Lev feel compelled by their identity politics to feel apprehensive towards each other, eventually they learn that individual relationships matter more than faction loyalty.

To bring this point home even further, Ellie fails to learn this lesson. She decides her allegiance to Jackson is more important than her individual relationships, and as a result ends up losing all of them, including the one piece of her left that connected her to Joel (her ability to play the guitar the way he taught her).

I don’t see how identity politics ruin a game that is basically teaching us to leave them behind.

 

[DForce]

Sure. Except the ending of TLOU was interpretive; Joel could be a good guy, or bad guy, depending on your interpretation. Both groups are justified. I'll add this:

Spoiler

Ellie not being the only immune person that the Fireflies vivisected lowers the impact of Joel's decisions immensely. In TLOU2, we seem humanity has already begun to bring itself back. Joel didn't doom humanity - he just delayed its return.
On top of this, Abby's Dad vivisected approximately a dozen living people, failing to provide a vaccine for the infection. How many of those are "justified" in seeking revenge? With this in mind, we see that Abby's justification is not an objective one, but a personal one - one that is inserted into an established narrative after the fact, all to... make people divisive over if a game is terrible? To tell us "violence is bad"? To make us feel bad?

The people who aren't on board with this game aren't so easily dismissed - there's legitimate issues being raised at a fundamental level.

Spoiler

Humanity still has no cure for the infection. Everyone would have been better off with it than without it.

Joel, Abby and Ellie actions seem justified in one way or another. It's still the fallout of Joel's decision and he paid for his actions. You don't have to feel bad about Abby or think violence is bad. People have to understand that Joel made the wrong decision.

 

[Kokoro2020]

Serves people right for giving a shit about video games stories.

I usually don't get invested in stories in games. Games like this only add to my reasoning.

 

[Paasei]

Good thing I have never seen Metacritic as relevant. A collection of reviews that can come from everywhere and everyone. What can go wrong?

Not liking a game is perfectly fine, but something tells me most of these people haven't even tried it yet.

 

[Elcid]

So I actually spent a while reading user reviews and there's a LOT of zeroes out there with very valid criticism. Just because someone dislkes something you like doesn't mean you need to be petty about it.

 

[pawel86ck]

The main appeal of this game is the story. If the story is trash, fans will be mad over it. It is that simple really.

TLOU2 has much to offer even if you dont care about the story. Gameplay mechanic requires strategy and each enemy encounter looks a little bit different and because technical side is perfect it's just a pleasure to explore beautiful and detailed world in this game. There are so many strong points here 7/10 should be the worst score for this game even if someone dont like the story at all. Also I wonder how so many people completed the story so soon, because TLOU2 is very long game (around 30 hours). Most people have to work and not to mention need to sleep, eat, etc., so I'm guessing low scores comes from people who dont even played the game.

 

[RedVIper]

Neil said The Last of Us Part II is going to be divisive. He aid people who liked the first game probably won't like the second game.

Spoiler: STORY SPOILERS

People hate the fact that Joel died, but there's people who can't accept the fact that he was never a good guy. His decision cost millions of lives. Everything that's happening in the game is a result of that decision. Abby's revenge is justified just as much as Ellie's.

What do you mean cost millions of lives? There was no guarantee the fireflies could actually make the vaccine, the most likely scenario was that ellie died with no vaccine being found. I really like that this game kinda tries to retcon that, everyone acts as if a vaccine was a guarantee.

Also, the biters are barely a threat, the main thing to worry about is other "tribes" a vaccine wouldn't have changed that.

 

[plasmawave]

You don't need to play the game to know if the game is bad because of the story. You are able to have an legit opinion about the story if you've watched the whole gameplay on youtube. Gameplay is a whole different story, as that is something you have to experience yourself.

And the story of the game surely is a mess.

I stopped in "you dont need to play the game" no Thanks
[/QUOTE]
People don't need to play game anymore to tell the game is good or not anymore?
I think you people owe Kotaku an apology then.

 

[Ar¢tos]

So I actually spent a while reading user reviews and there's a LOT of zeroes out there with very valid criticism. Just because someone dislkes something you like doesn't mean you need to be petty about it.

So because someone dislikes a game it becomes an instant valid Zero? There are other numbers that reflect negativity above zero. Zeros should be left for completely unplayable messes with bad story and gameplay.
The lowest number I would give to a game I really disliked would be a 4 or 5, because even if I don't like it I can still see value in parts of it (story, gameplay elements, etc).

If all Sony fans were this salty, it would be a bigger problem for Xbox 1st party games, judging by marketshare there are more Sony fans than Xbox fans.

 

[Soodanim]

Some thoughts on this most recent page of posts.

You know I watched the leaks "casually" (I mean just watched them once and didn't analyse the story in detail). I'm actually surprised that I don't think they make much difference to the storyline.

The 2 major bits of those leaks that I remember happen quite early in the game - the first 5 - 8 hours or so.

If anything those leaks make the game seem a bit more "basic" in terms of the story it's going to tell...

I had a feeling that this would be the case.

Good point about Persona 4 Golden on Steam. It's gotten an overwhelming positive rating from fans with over 12k reviews. Maybe we can take away something from this example. Maybe we can take away that games that aren't divisive, aren't pushing propaganda, aren't being prop up by the shill and dishonest game journalists don't have this review bomb problem.

Make all games like P4G in case people get upset and review bomb for not playing it safe? Okay, got it. Sounds like a great way to further the medium.

Why make a sequel if people who liled the first one won't like the second? What kind of stupid reasoning is that? Neil is a massive tool.

It sounds like it was a reference to Joel not being a good guy, so if you liked him you might not like what happens in this game. Sometimes you have to read between the lines.

No. The outrage started when the cutscenes were leaked along with information on context.

I know because it was when my excitement for the game died, because I realised that the game's story had been ruined by, or rather based around identity politics.
The cutscenes alone were enough to suggest that this was the case. And the leaked information confirmed it.

You clearly do not get it.

The writing is shit. This is the reason for the outrage.

This is the perfect sentiment for me to end this on. falcs: your post is an example, but I'm not directly replying to you.

This game is controversial because of its story first and foremost, and that's fine. People are not always going to like a product especially when it tries something like seen on popular TV shows. But despite the posts like this one say, the controversy, the hate, and the 25,000 negative reviews stem from the leaks.

If you think that many people would come to the same passionately hateful conclusion about the storytelling/writing had the game just released and people played it with thoughts given after, you're lying to yourself. The posts that use Cuckmann or the other common keywords betray the true intentions and/or bandwagoning for so much of it, and people are so often very quick to betray that intention even when they're trying to cover it by talking about what seems to be genuine points about flawed gameplay and story. It's just a shame the genuine critiques are drowning in a sea of childish whining.

My final takeaway from the outside looking in this whole load of nonsense is that the professional reviews are an industry hype train that doesn't point out flaws, and the negative user reviews present themselves like children crying most of the time and aren't honest enough to point out any positives. The truth, as is so often the case, lies somewhere in the middle. The 5-7 Metacritic user reviews seem to be the best chance at honest opinions right now.

I look forward to this all dying down and someone like Matthewmatosis on YouTube doing a good, honest deep dive into the game.

 

[ZehDon]

Spoiler

Humanity still has no cure for the infection. Everyone would have been better off with it than without it.

Joel, Abby and Ellie actions seem justified in one way or another. It's still the fallout of Joel's decision and he paid for his actions. You don't have to feel bad about Abby or think violence is bad. People have to understand that Joel made the wrong decision.

No. You're stamping an absolute on something that isn't an absolute.

Spoiler

There's zero reason to think dissecting Ellie's brain would yield a cure when the 12 brain's taken from people that were dissected before her didn't. That's Naughty Dog's writing under-cutting the ending. If I also recall correctly, we know from a recording in TLOU that the Fireflies were planning to kill Joel after he delivered Ellie. People don't NEED to understand anything because they understand it perfectly. YOU need to understand that Joel didn't make a good decision, nor did he make a bad decision - he just made a decision that can be interpreted as either. That's... literally the point of the game.

I can't comment on the other parts because I haven't played the sequel.

 

[Kagey K]

So because someone dislikes a game it becomes an instant valid Zero? There are other numbers that reflect negativity above zero. Zeros should be left for completely unplayable messes with bad story and gameplay.
The lowest number I would give to a game I really disliked would be a 4 or 5, because even if I don't like it I can still see value in parts of it (story, gameplay elements, etc).

If all Sony fans were this salty, it would be a bigger problem for Xbox 1st party games, judging by marketshare there are more Sony fans than Xbox fans.

Go look at the last few 1st party games by MS, guess what they have a bunch of 0s by people that didn’t play it.

Its not exclusive to any game.

You can’t get salty about this one, if you didn’t do anything to to deter the others. It’s just another in the same line.

 

[DForce]

What do you mean cost millions of lives? There was no guarantee the fireflies could actually make the vaccine, the most likely scenario was that ellie died with no vaccine being found. I really like that this game kinda tries to retcon that, everyone acts as if a vaccine was a guarantee.

Also, the biters are barely a threat, the main thing to worry about is other "tribes" a vaccine wouldn't have changed that.

The most likely scenario? Prove it based on the dialog of the first game.

 

[Falcs]

You're wrong, dude. lol.

This is the fake plot leak, that contains SOME spoilers.

Spoiler: Fake Plot Leak

Nearly everything is fake.

Spoiler: Context & Spoilers

Cutscenes that leaked

1. Joel's death
2. Playing as Abby to fight Ellie
3. Surgeon scene

People were upset that Joel died and you have to play as Abby. There was nothing confirmed outside of those cutscenes. People didn't like this idea without knowing the real plot.

There were several leak posts that had info, some of which was false, some of which turned out to be true. Most of the info in all of them pointed to the story being shit and the cutscenes supported this.

Now the game is out, and most of the more recent leaks turned out to be true. The events that were leaked were bad, and the execution was even worse. This is why people are outraged.

You really think the the majority of disappointed fans only saw the first leak and immediately dismissed the game?

No. Most fans that are angry are pissed because we loved the first game and Druckman has completely shat all over the characters we loved so dearly, all in the name of very obviously forced diversity and representation message, which makes for bad writing.

You can either see the clearly obvious agenda they're trying to push, or you're blind.
It's fine if you like SJW nonsense in your stories, but the overwhelming majority of gamers do not want that shit in our games because it leads to poor plot devices and inconsistent character decisions in order to create a scenario in which a political message can be delivered..
ie. Shit writtng.

That's why people are pissed. Not because of some 4chan post.

 

[Nemesisuuu]

LOL you're really crying 'cause someone is trolling and 'bombing' metacritic score? Just play the damn game if you like it that much, nothing can change that.

This leave Sony/MS/Nintendo alone thing is just pathetic.

FYI among these troll 'reviews', there sure are some legit that didn't like the game. Nothing is universally liked. And that's perfectly fine.

 

[Kagey K]

There were several leak posts that had info, some of which was false, some of which turned out to be true. Most of the info in all of them pointed to the story being shit and the cutscenes supported this.

Now the game is out, and most of the more recent leaks turned out to be true. The events that were leaked were bad, and the execution was even worse. This is why people are outraged.

You really think the the majority of disappointed fans only saw the first leak and immediately dismissed the game?

No. Most fans that are angry are pissed because we loved the first game and Druckman has completely shat all over the characters we loved so dearly, all in the name of very obviously forced diversity and representation message, which makes for bad writing.

You can either see the clearly obvious agenda they're trying to push, or you're blind.
It's fine if you like SJW nonsense in your stories, but the overwhelming majority of gamers do not want that shit in our games because it leads to poor plot devices and inconsistent character decisions in order to create a scenario in which a political message can be delivered..
ie. Shit writtng.

That's why people are pissed. Not because of some 4chan post.

It all right wing xbox fans, not actual problems with the story. Damn man keep up.

 

[pawel86ck]

You don't need to play the game to know if the game is bad because of the story. You are able to have an legit opinion about the story if you've watched the whole gameplay on youtube.

Let me ask you something (I hope I will not get banned ), do you prefer to watch porn movies or sleep with real women? Totally different experience and it's the same with games. People who didnt played TLOU2 are like virgins complaining about sex with real woman.

 

[Allandor]

Well happens to e.g. Xbox exclusives all the time. Funny thing is, there are no threads about them. But if the same happens for a naughty dog title a thread is opened.

Just ignore it. No one should give a damn shit about ratings bellow 4 (if the game is not horrible bugged) or above 9 (a 10 is just not possible in my opinion).

 

[DForce]

No. You're stamping an absolute on something that isn't an absolute.

Spoiler

There's zero reason to think dissecting Ellie's brain would yield a cure when the 12 brain's taken from people that were dissected before her didn't. That's Naughty Dog's writing under-cutting the ending. If I also recall correctly, we know from a recording in TLOU that the Fireflies were planning to kill Joel after he delivered Ellie. People don't NEED to understand anything because they understand it perfectly. YOU need to understand that Joel didn't make a good decision, nor did he make a bad decision - he just made a decision that can be interpreted as either. That's... literally the point of the game.

I can't comment on the other parts because I haven't played the sequel.

Spoiler

Joel was never told there was a small possibility of creating a cure. He was told they would reverse engineer a vaccine. It doesn't undercut the ending because Joel lied to Ellie and wanted to save her due to selfish reasons.

He made the wrong decision from Ellie's point of view. It's not what she wanted. We can think otherwise, because we're trying to put our self in Joel's position. People have to mode outside that box and look at everything from all perspective. If we are too attached to a character, then it may keep some people from thinking rationally.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Anyone doing the false equivalency dance mentioning 10/10s from people who didn't play it need to recognize it's at 3.6 from 37.000 ratings. Even Red Dead Redemption 2 only has 16K scores (across all platforms) I wouldn't compare it to prior gen games that are huge because clearly there's simply greater desire to rate things on Metacritic this gen (just have a look back). That said this still outpaces anything else on the platform and in a matter of time way too small to make logical sense. There's no argument founded in any sort of reality or logic that defends these people doing this as people who have actually played the game for the most part. Heck, some of the people MOST EXCITED for the game in these threads still haven't played it (I'm legit waiting for PS5), that said I don't even possess a Metacritic account to rate things because I never found much value in their user reviews.

Then, if you weren't sure enough, you've got users RIGHT IN THESE THREADS arguing that watching the game on Youtube is enough to know how good it is. Keep in mind also, in the spoiler thread, prior to the ENTIRE GAME being viewable on Youtube it was routinely argued you could JUDGE the game based on the leaks which amounted to maybe 5 minutes of actual plot, some would argue "the entire plot" based on fake 4Chan plot outlines, however, which even if true a plot outline is not exactly how you really judge these things.

If you want to come at me with "I can figure out from leaks/youtube/etc. whether or not the game is for me" then good for you, that's why you don't buy it, but if you want to be respected that's as far as it goes, if I lose respect for game critics who don't actually play/finish games then why should you be any different?

 

[DForce]

There were several leak posts that had info, some of which was false, some of which turned out to be true. Most of the info in all of them pointed to the story being shit and the cutscenes supported this.

Now the game is out, and most of the more recent leaks turned out to be true. The events that were leaked were bad, and the execution was even worse. This is why people are outraged.

You really think the the majority of disappointed fans only saw the first leak and immediately dismissed the game?

No. Most fans that are angry are pissed because we loved the first game and Druckman has completely shat all over the characters we loved so dearly, all in the name of very obviously forced diversity and representation message, which makes for bad writing.

You can either see the clearly obvious agenda they're trying to push, or you're blind.
It's fine if you like SJW nonsense in your stories, but the overwhelming majority of gamers do not want that shit in our games because it leads to poor plot devices and inconsistent character decisions in order to create a scenario in which a political message can be delivered..
ie. Shit writtng.

That's why people are pissed. Not because of some 4chan post.

Only things that turned out to be true were the actual leaked videos.


So how can they say the plot was poorly written when only 3 plot details were real outside of the rest which were fake?

They didn't know the story, they only knew the cutscenes and fake plot leaks.

all in the name of very obviously forced diversity

No. You're really reaching here.

You can either see the clearly obvious agenda they're trying to push, or you're blind.

You're calling me blind, but I showed you proof from the fake 4chan leak that people didn't know the full story. If 90% of the details are fake, then they didn't know the story.

You can keep ignoring this fact, but they did NOT know the story when fans started complaining.

 

[samporter]

Some thoughts on this most recent page of posts.

I had a feeling that this would be the case.

Make all games like P4G in case people get upset and review bomb for not playing it safe? Okay, got it. Sounds like a great way to further the medium.

It sounds like it was a reference to Joel not being a good guy, so if you liked him you might not like what happens in this game. Sometimes you have to read between the lines.

This is the perfect sentiment for me to end this on. falcs: your post is an example, but I'm not directly replying to you.

This game is controversial because of its story first and foremost, and that's fine. People are not always going to like a product especially when it tries something like seen on popular TV shows. But despite the posts like this one say, the controversy, the hate, and the 25,000 negative reviews stem from the leaks.

If you think that many people would come to the same passionately hateful conclusion about the storytelling/writing had the game just released and people played it with thoughts given after, you're lying to yourself. The posts that use Cuckmann or the other common keywords betray the true intentions and/or bandwagoning for so much of it, and people are so often very quick to betray that intention even when they're trying to cover it by talking about what seems to be genuine points about flawed gameplay and story. It's just a shame the genuine critiques are drowning in a sea of childish whining.

My final takeaway from the outside looking in this whole load of nonsense is that the professional reviews are an industry hype train that doesn't point out flaws, and the negative user reviews present themselves like children crying most of the time and aren't honest enough to point out any positives. The truth, as is so often the case, lies somewhere in the middle. The 5-7 Metacritic user reviews seem to be the best chance at honest opinions right now.

I look forward to this all dying down and someone like Matthewmatosis on YouTube doing a good, honest deep dive into the game.

How does TLOU2 push the medium? Because it has strong gay females characters?

You obviously don't know a thing about the medium. Did you start gaming with the PS3? The medium has been pushed going as far as back as the Playstation 1 era, with titles like Silent Hill, Metal Gear Solid, Xenogears, Final Fantasy Tactics.

In Silent Hill, the player literally explored the boundary between reality and hell. In Xenogears, you had a story that was supposed to span 6 episodes, told through different generations, characters, and timelines. In Final Fantasy Tactics, you watch characters grow from adolescence to adulthood, the rise and falls of kings, and it dealt with much more serious themes like disparity and power dynamics.

What boundary has TLOUS pushed? It's a generic post-apocalyptic survival story, that has been done many times before like the TellTale The Walking Dead, which does a better job I might add. The only boundary TLOU2 pushes with its story is putting gay characters in the forefront, while not telling a good story in the process.

It's so funny hearing all the shill game journalist praise modern games as if nothing existed before it. Love how all the shill journalists seem to share some patterns: they have gender study degrees, they don't know much about the medium they write about, and they think identity politics sells.

 

[Jon Neu]

I dig subversive storytelling, even if it can be frustrating or obtuse or go a way I wish it didn't, because it's always more interesting to be challenged than to be pandered to..

The funny thing is that Cuckmann does both.

He goes in an edgy rampage of suvberting expectations while at the same time pandering so hard with his political agenda.

The problem is that the quality of the script and the characters are atrociously bad, they are good for Cuckmann because those characters make his SJW heart beat with joy, but anybody who doesn’t feel crazy joy at the mere existance of a little trans child in a videogame isn’t going to like this crappy pandering characters.

 

[Steve.1981]

The most likely scenario? Prove it based on the dialog of the first game.

"Prove me wrong, but only using the narrow parameters that I allow, ignoring any other evidence" My god you are such a disingenuous dissembler.

But anyway, I already told you that Marlene's claim about creating a vaccine is no concrete proof of anything. You're living in a clown world & taking people's words as definitive, while completely ignoring everything that's leading to those words. It's absolutely pointless.

& this is on top of the fact that it's wrong to kill an innocent child, for any reason at all. Which perfectly justifies Joel's actions on it's own. Even if the Fireflies did, by some miracle, create a vaccine (which I'll always say is nothing but the desperate hopes & dreams of desperate people at the end of their road), they would have done it by killing an innocent child. I would even argue that not saving Ellie would be an unforgivable act of inhumane horror. It just blows my mind that you people still try to argue that point.

Honestly man. Wake the fuck up.

 

[Azurro]

If this is your takeaway then you haven't played the game/followed the story.

There is 0 left wing identity politics in this game worthy of the name. Unless you feel that it's unrealistic that every white male character in the game is portrayed as a thougthful peace loving hero... that's about the most pandering done to any minority/ethnic group. There is literally not one "bad" white male developed character.

The narrative of TLOU 2 could be summed up as "peace loving heroic white males killed by crazed, nihilistic and psychotic women and minorities".

0 left wing politics? Come on, I mean...

Spoiler: tlou2 spoilers

the writing includes gems like "bigot sandwich" and the "heartbreaking and beautiful" story of how hard it's to be trans in the apocalypse, it doesn't get any more crazy SJW than that. Really funny how they live in constant fear of death and a fucked up world, but her/his pronouns are the most important thing around.

BTW, just because you killed a beloved main character doesn't make Druckmann a genious writer, it's a risky thing to do because it can backfire if the story you want to tell by the character's sacrifice isn't up to snuff, and TLOU2's story just doesn't.

 

[DForce]

"Prove me wrong, but only using the narrow parameters that I allow, ignoring any other evidence" My god you are such a disingenuous dissembler.

But anyway, I already told you that Marlene's claim about creating a vaccine is no concrete proof of anything. You're living in a clown world & taking people's words as definitive, while completely ignoring everything that's leading to those words. It's absolutely pointless.

& this is on top of the fact that it's wrong to kill an innocent child, for any reason at all. Which perfectly justifies Joel's actions on it's own. Even if the Fireflies did, by some miracle, create a vaccine (which I'll always say is nothing but the desperate hopes & dreams of desperate people at the end of their road), they would have done it by killing an innocent child. I would even argue that not saving Ellie would be an unforgivable act of inhumane horror. It just blows my mind that you people still try to argue that point.

Honestly man. Wake the fuck up.

I provided quotes, you provided nothing more than a theory with no support at all.

"They'll be able to reverse engineer a vaccine."

That's clear enough. She didn't say they will try to or hope to, she said they'll be able to reverse engineer it. Ignoring this simple fact isn't going to change anything, it's right there for you to see.


I don't need to wake up, because I can read\listen to what she said perfectly. I'm not here trying to twist words to fit my narrative.

 

[Eliciel]

The comments are in parts clearly "Agenda Driven". Go and read them in full after you finished the Story.

Also, Most importantly, there is No other Game in Metacritic that has received over 25.000 User Feedbacks. Even the biggest system Sellers and Fans Franchises gather ~16k

If you do Not possess the objectivity to Accept that in parts IT IS Agenda Driven, you are clearly Agenda Driven yourself.

I love all games, but this is clearly outrageous and Something we, as a Community, should not "Support" and declare "understandable.

Everyone has his right to taste and opinion, but this is an audacity and I cannot believe this Witch hunt is really Happening.

I Loved the Game. It is among my GOAT games.
Gameplay I give it 8.5/10 - IT IS improved over TLOU 1,

OST/Sound 9/10, comparable to Part 1

Graphics 10/10 - actually next Gen has to demonstrate overcoming the bar that TLOU 2 has raised. Especially in Fidelity and Animations

and Story I rate 9/10 - in todays world WE are used to all Forms of narrative Route and decision and I have been a Fan of many late entries that Took routes Like Tlou2 and I Like this Route.

I Hope you all give it a real chance.

 

[Soodanim]

How does TLOU2 push the medium? Because it has strong gay females characters?

You obviously don't know a thing about the medium. Did you start gaming with the PS3? The medium has been pushed going as far as back as the Playstation 1 era, with titles like Silent Hill, Metal Gear Solid, Xenogears, Final Fantasy Tactics.

In Silent Hill, the player literally explored the boundary between reality and hell. In Xenogears, you had a story that was supposed to span 6 episodes, told through different generations, characters, and timelines. In Final Fantasy Tactics, you watch characters grow from adolescence to adulthood, the rise and falls of kings, and it dealt with much more serious themes like disparity and power dynamics.

What boundary has TLOUS pushed? It's a generic post-apocalyptic survival story, that has been done many times before like the TellTale The Walking Dead, which does a better job I might add. The only boundary TLOU2 pushes with its story is putting gay characters in the forefront, while not telling a good story in the process.

It's so funny hearing all the shill game journalist praise modern games as if nothing existed before it. Love how all the shill journalists seem to share some patterns: they have gender study degrees, they don't know much about the medium they write about, and they think identity politics sells.

Nothing in your reply relates to what you originally said - it replies something I didn't say at all. Perhaps you simply misread.

You brought up P4G not getting review bombed because was a safe game that didn't push anyone's buttons. I responded to it because that logic is flawed. TLoU2 appears to be a bit of a misfire even to those that aren't caught up in the Internet politics, so the problem isn't what it wanted to do but rather how it did it. It could have been done really well and been regarded as a fantastic game. So surely the point shouldn't be "Don't do stories with these elements in", but rather "Do them better". Would you agree?

 

[Steve.1981]

I provided quotes, you provided nothing more than a theory with no support at all.

"They'll be able to reverse engineer a vaccine."

That's clear enough. She didn't say they will try to or hope to, she said they'll be able to reverse engineer it. Ignoring this simple fact isn't going to change anything, it's right there for you to see.


I don't need to wake up, because I can read\listen to what she said perfectly. I'm not here trying to twist words to fit my narrative.

There you go again. "She said it, so it simply must be true"

Again, you're just taking her at face value & assuming it's true, completely ignoring any & all reasons that point to her word being even a touch unreliable. It's pointless, as I said. Her words are not definitive, absolute proof of anything.

Are you completely unaware of the concept of people convincing themselves of something in order to justify their unjustifiable actions? Like, does this just fly straight over your head? Do you always believe what that you hear, simply because the person saying it has a modicum of authority? You blow my mind.