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[ZywyPL]

The ones complaining about the machine being "too weak" and fearing their games being held back because of it, really know nothing about how much resource hungry is a resolution bump is and how much just lowering the resolution will free up a lot of resources for games.

Actually the same people who complain about XBS being too weak are the ones who complain that 4K is a waste of resources either. So I don't know why they are into next-gen consoles, stick to PC or Switch and don't bother.

 

[Kataploom]

Actually the dame people who complain about XBS are the ones who complain that 4K is a waste of resources. So I don't kn

Well, maybe you're right since I don't remember most users usernames when they comment lol

 

[Shin]

4TF is a bit of a joke but it hints that they have had to aggressively cut component costs to hit a low price point and thus market disruption.

It's good enough to drive native 1080p, people seem to think that 4K has overtaken HD completely worldwide, not the case.
This console isn't for me and most likely most people posting here, but I'm inclined to think that either people are shit-posting as per usual or they can't phantom that there might be a market for this.

 

[Tulipanzo]

We also have solid insight for XSX BOM. Zhuge surely has data for TSMC. Because he is covering whole Asia market.

Yeah, but it's a far wider estimate than PS5 still. A $520 BoM is a whole different challenge than a $460 one.
We know a bigger APU increases in size exponentially, but we have little in terms of solid speculation as to how much, for example.

 

[TheCrimsnFuckr]

This sounds really awesome and powerful for what it is. Only a 45% RAM size reduction (for games that will render around 25% of the resolution), a slightly underclocked CPU (as long as it's above 3Ghz it will likely be fine, but my guess is around 3.2, more than enough compared to PS5's 3.5 max) and a 4TF GPU with the same feature set as XSX. Doubt it will consistently hit 1440p, but definitely 1080p or 720p (if a game is 1440p on XSX) which is pretty awesome. I really don't think it will be as much of a pain as people think, especially as game development gets easier as everything uses the same architectures

 

[makaveli60]

All games will be on PC and minimum PC specs will be the limiting factor for at least most of the generation, in all likelihood.

No, high budget games are designed around consoles.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I said something similar for PS and price yesterday, and I'll say it for Xbox today.

Do you really think the team behind the turnaround of the Xbox brand, a bunch of great initiatives, and the One X, is just going to make a move like this without carefully considering it?

I will believe MS is competent when they deliver the goods. Not a second before. I am not falling for their promises. They have too much history of overpromising and under delivering. I do not care one little bit how much their TALK sounds so good and gives people the warm and fuzzies.

They can deliver a good product and I am game.

 

[jimbojim]

Yeah, but it's a far wider estimate than PS5 still. A $520 BoM is a whole different challenge than a $460 one.
We know a bigger APU increases in size exponentially, but we have little in terms of solid speculation as to how much, for example.

Nevertheless, we have ballpark estimates XSX BOM.

 

[Chiggs]

Who gives two flying fucks what Bloomberg's build estimates are. They don't know shit.

 

[JLB]

If TF scales with resolution linearly, and a 12TF system runs a full-RT game at 1080p, a 4TF will go to sub-1080p
Similarly for PS5 running the UE5 tech demo at 1440p (Lockhart would run it at 1.47M5 resolution, similar to A4 paper format).

It is woefully underpowered given the direction tech is moving; there's a reason devs heavily dislike it.

How can devs can heavily dislike something that is not real?
In any case, series s, if it exists, will be easily more powerful than 20/30% pcs in the market. So for devs it wont be much different that support multiple pc specs.

 

[Allandor]

That's not a good thing at all! What happens when a game is 1440p and 30 fps on XSX?

Then, 720p happens. Yes, it is so easy
Even 720p can look really great with good assets.
Just remember the DLSS 2.0 expamples.

 

[Type_Raver]

3.5 GHz
4 Tflops
10 GB
No 4K Optical Drive

designed for 1080p

My thoughts too.

I was coming in to say that this was the 1080p version of XSX.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Do you really think the team behind the turnaround of the Xbox brand, a bunch of great initiatives, and the One X, is just going to make a move like this without carefully considering it?

Nope but they went through a similar process with the Xbox One. Just because they spent alot of time doing research doesn't mean they will make the right decisions. The same goes for any company developing a product by the way even Sony.

We will just have to wait and see what happens to be fair.

I personally don't like the idea of the Lockhart but it could be a great thing for them if they execute it properly.

 

[PaintTinJr]

As much as I'm not really into Xbox's "Series" - generation-less undertones - this is quite an interesting pitch in isolation of xbox IMHO.

The rumoured technical specs probably undersell Lockhart capabilities, because I would expect it to share technologies beyond the RDNA2 of the GPU with the XsX.

So even if it is only 7.5GB RAM (of maybe 10GB?) available for games, I would wonder if that entire amount is clocked and connected to the same memory controller lanes as the fast portion of XsX at 560GB/s? If so, then clearly the bandwidth difference between the larger RAM of the X1X would give Lockhart an advantage; especially if coupled with the Velocity Architecture, that I would assume will be paired to a hybrid SSD containing at least 100GB of SSD buffer, and the XsS still supporting full XsX SSD expansion cards direct to the VA I/O system.

With more aggressive BCpack compression on Lockhart at 1080p, there could be a scenario where the X1X version of games looks downgraded, but the XsS and XsX have similar IQ when compared on smaller HD screens, along with XsS having similar loading times.

As much as people will laugh at the 4TF, the equivalent 6TF in GCN for X1X (or lesser amount on PS4 Pro) is still very serious hardware IMO, if used to its full potential - for more than upscaling X1 and PS4 visuals, and if Xbox can successfully get multi-plat devs to cater for their series of devices, then within Xbox's yardsticks for success this might work well for them.

I still believe in generations of hardware, but if this helps Xbox to have a market to still keep making games that impress, then hopefully it works for them.

 

[Johnny Silver]

4TF?

4Tf of an improved architecture, with a higher IPC rate in comparison with CGN. Should be be roughly the same as 6TF in GCN architecture.

 

[Grinchy]

Lets flip this..

Two wrongs don't make a right

There aren't two wrongs there, though. The only thing that was wrong was when you flipped it. The first statement was actually right.

 

[CRAIG667]

I couldn't imagine most people would want to be playing at 1080p for another generation. Not for these games that strive for realistic visuals.

Who bought a Switch?

 

[Paracelsus]

I really hope they don't do something stupid like this

XBSX 599
PS5 499
XBSS 399

Basically the next

"Xbox chief: we have a product for people who can't get online, it's called Xbox 360"

People will totally perceive the XBSS as an underwhelming insult.

Who bought a Switch?

Nintendo is the First Party Machine, you can call it the "generational tax". Microsoft does not have that advantage, it's the only company without killer application first parties.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

4Tf of an improved architecture, with a higher IPC rate in comparison with CGN. Should be be roughly the same as 6TF in GCN architecture.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Who bought a Switch?

What Switch game thats not a blurry ass 720p port would you label "realistic visuals"?

 

[Johnny Silver]

But the goal of the console is 1080p.

It's far more than enough for it. The bulk of that excess processing power will go towards rendering things with a similar/proportional graphical fidelity of a 4k console, only at 1080p, with the possibility of either 30 or 60fps.

 

[Senua]

Grow up lol

 

[NullZ3r0]

I don't see the point, more work for devs. Just do what PS did and release a disc less version for $50 cheaper.

Not more work. Stop with the FUD.

 

[NullZ3r0]

I’m a firm believer that this shit tier version will hold next gen back completely. I’ve seen nothing to convince me otherwise.

You have seen enough, you're just not knowledgeable enough to understand it.

 

[Allandor]

What Switch game thats not a blurry ass 720p port would you label "realistic visuals"?

switch games are blurry not because of the often low resolution, it is blurry because most times details are also lowered to a minimum. 4TF is still much, much more than switch has. Why should it be worse than current PS4 Pro games?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

But the goal of the console is 1080p.

It's far more than enough for it. The bulk of that excess processing power will go towards rendering things with a similar/proportional graphical fidelity of a 4k console, only at 1080p, with the possibility of either 30 or 60fps.

It's not enough for the generation unless sacrifices are made on XSX versions of games.

 

[Mister Wolf]

switch games are blurry not because of the often low resolution, it is blurry because most times details are also lowered to a minimum. 4TF is still much, much more than switch has. Why should it be worse than current PS4 Pro games?

We are discussing two different things.

 

[HaveButOneLife]

Is that better than the X? I may just go for a lockhart right now..

No, X has a 6 TF GPU.

 

[01011001]

It's not enough for the generation unless sacrifices are made on XSX versions of games.

again someone with absolutely zero evidence for this and ignoring PC tests that show how close to linear games scale on modern hardware.

look up DF's test with 2 RDNA GPUs on PC and see how well games scale down with resolution on lower TFLOP hardware of the same architecture.

a 4k Series X game, no matter how complex it is, will have no issue running at 1080p on a 4TF Series S

 

[Nikana]

No, X has a 6 TF GPU.

Lockhart is still superior.

 

[brownfedora]

Microsoft's strategy is so confusing. They aren't exactly great at marketing and they're going to have to explain this to people. I can't imagine devs will be excited about this.

They better be careful not to have a box that is too expensive and a box that is too low-end.

 

[sixamp]

Why are so many people acting like a lower spec'ed Xbox would in any way hurt devs or games for the series x? PC games allow you to basically go from PS2 graphics to ultra gen. All they are doing is cutting back on visuals using a profile. Lowering Graphics don't impact gameplay so this won't have any affect on game development

 

[NullZ3r0]

Since we're still seeing people push the FUD that a 4 TFLOP RDNA2 GPU will "hold back" games next gen. Here's an example of a PC game, Control that has raytracing on the high end settings.

Minimum:

• CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 / AMD FX 4350
• GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 780 / AMD Radeon R9 280X
• RAM: 8GB
• OS: Windows 7, 64bit
• DirectX: DX11

Recommended:

• CPU: Intel Core i5-7600K / AMD Ryzen 5 1600X
• GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660/1060 / AMD Radeon RX 580
• Ray-tracing GPU: Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060
• RAM: 16GB
• OS: Windows 10, 64-bit
• DirectX: DX12

Devs deal with this all the time and have done so for years. This isn't a big deal.

Lockhart will run games at Miniumum settings and Series X will be the Recommended platform. This confuses no one but forum concern trolls.

 

[Leyasu]

There aren't two wrongs there, though. The only thing that was wrong was when you flipped it. The first statement was actually right.

Not really.


Without being able to see the future, no one knows how much this will affect next gen.

Personally, I would rather Lockhart didn’t leave the drawing-board

 

[Mister Wolf]

Why are so many people acting like a lower spec'ed Xbox would in any way hurt devs or games for the series x? PC games allow you to basically go from PS2 graphics to ultra gen. All they are doing is cutting back on visuals using a profile. Lowering Graphics don't impact gameplay so this won't have any affect on game development

They drank the SSD Kool Aid and the only thing we got to show for it is an on rails section switching backgrounds(you cant explore any of it) constantly and "Spiderman can swing faster".

 

[FStubbs]

Since we're still seeing people push the FUD that a 4 TFLOP RDNA2 GPU will "hold back" games next gen. Here's an example of a PC game, Control that has raytracing on the high end settings.

Minimum:

• CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 / AMD FX 4350
• GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 780 / AMD Radeon R9 280X
• RAM: 8GB
• OS: Windows 7, 64bit
• DirectX: DX11

Recommended:

• CPU: Intel Core i5-7600K / AMD Ryzen 5 1600X
• GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660/1060 / AMD Radeon RX 580
• Ray-tracing GPU: Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060
• RAM: 16GB
• OS: Windows 10, 64-bit
• DirectX: DX12

Devs deal with this all the time and have done so for years. This isn't a big deal.

Lockhart will run games at Miniumum settings and Series X will be the Recommended platform. This confuses no one but forum concern trolls.

Won't this machine be weaker than the Xbox One X? In fact, it seems weaker than the PS4 Pro.

 

[Johnny Silver]

It's not enough for the generation unless sacrifices are made on XSX versions of games.

What sacrifices?

Developers will create two profiles in accordance with each console.

 

[Nikana]

Won't this machine be weaker than the Xbox One X? In fact, it seems weaker than the PS4 Pro.

No. It's stronger than both.

 

[onQ123]

People complaining about Series S but Xbox Series X would be dead in the water without a cheaper Xbox to make it worth devs time to make games that take advantage of the next gen features.

 

[DonF]

So Sony is doing everything so that devs can make games faster, cheaper and easier.
Meanwhile Microsoft is like lol fuck you have to develop for 5 different skus lol

 

[itsjustJEFF]

This would be a BOLD move. I'm just weary of the potential outcome. What if this does extremely well, like Wii levels of well. This could change the future strategy of consoles moving forward, Cloud even. Why build something expensive and powerful, when the less powerful, much more affordable option did so well?

Isn't this the Nintendo's strategy? build a powerful enough system that is affordable for more people. Why even make a system that is capable of 4k when most people don't even have a 4k TV or really even care and would be perfectly happy with 1080p. Look at the Nintendo Switch, that thing is selling very well and it only outputs 1080p to a TV.

I mean we care about getting the most powerful version of a console, but we're the enthusiasts. We want the most horsepower, regular Joe here just wants enough to get him to the grocery store and back. Am I just being a weirdo here? haha

 

[itsjustJEFF]

No. It's stronger than both.

The CPU will definitely be faster, it should have a very similar architecture to the Series X, faster memory, with an SSD. But GPU wise? Shouldn't they be right about on par? One X and Series S I mean? I know that RDNA is suppose to be much more efficient than GCN, but that much? 6v4?

 

[Kumomeme]

Who bought a Switch?

switch not sit in same 'market' as sony/ms where the audience preferences is different than the one nintendo cater around

there is reason why nintendo avoided that realm..they did it since Wii

 

[yurinka]

7.5GB RAM? Down from 13.5? How the fuck are they going to design the same games for these machines?

Using the One X version of the game instead of the Series X one. And if it's a next gen only game, then Lockhart would get an aggresively cut down version that would almost look like the Outer Worlds Switch port even at 1080p.

The CPU will definitely be faster, it should have a very similar architecture to the Series X, faster memory, with an SSD. But GPU wise? Shouldn't they be right about on par? One X and Series S I mean? I know that RDNA is suppose to be much more efficient than GCN, but that much? 6v4?

To go from 12TF to 4TF is not "about on par", it's a third of its horsepower.

And with DLSS 2.0 type upscaling, it could rival or even outperform PS5.

Nice joke.

Point is being missed here I think. Gamepass and PC have turned Xbox into something different, it's now just another option. A console option for the living room. In truth, MS needs games to support lower end configurations on PC anyway. That opens two doors, a lower end XBox on the market and a higher framerate Xbox. The Series X optimized badge is starting to make a lot of sense isn't it?

Well I'd say that for the lower end Xbox to mimic low end PCs they already have XBO S and X. Lockhart means they'll basically need to do 4 console versions + the PC port.

 

[itsjustJEFF]

Using the One X version of the game instead of the Series X one. And if it's a next gen only game, then Lockhart would get an aggresively cut down version that would look like the Outer Worlds Switch even at 1080p.


To go from 12TF to 4TF is not "about on par", it's a third of its horsepower.

Could you please "re-read my post" I said One X (Which is current gen BTW) vs Series S. Who the hell would think 12 and 4 are on par?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

again someone with absolutely zero evidence for this and ignoring PC tests that show how close to linear games scale on modern hardware.

look up DF's test with 2 RDNA GPUs on PC and see how well games scale down with resolution on lower TFLOP hardware of the same architecture.

a 4k Series X game, no matter how complex it is, will have no issue running at 1080p on a 4TF Series S

You can believe whatever you want.
Any time a weaker unit is in the food chain sacrifices have to be made/devs have to keep in mind the lowest denominator when making the game.

 

[Gamerguy84]

I think the 4 tf xbox gpu will be more powerful than 1X. RDNA1 was a 50% increase over GCN. 4 x .5=2. 4+2=6. 6TF GCN

But RDNA2 promises a 50% increase over RDNA1. Plus the hardware goodies built in and Zen. The 4TF xbox will be very capable and way better than current gen 1X.

The PS5 and SeriesX are more powerful than a lot realize.

 

[Xplainin]

Not a fan, but hey, MS is smarter than I am.

 

[ThatOneGrunt]

So Sony is doing everything so that devs can make games faster, cheaper and easier.
Meanwhile Microsoft is like lol fuck you have to develop for 5 different skus lol

I'm sure devs care about selling games. Imagine how much easier it will be to sell your game with an already established hardware space in the millions.

 

[Silver Wattle]

There goes the next gen jump on multiplats.