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[Tiamat2san]

Yep, fuck the purists.
easy as an option would be great.
it’s an option not a mandatory mode for better players.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Its getting really tiring every time new FROM games comes out we have to have same god damn tired argument and same thing is going to happen when Elden Ring comes out.

From should put out Elden Ring with an easy mode but if you pick it the game has no enemies at all, expert troll.

 

[T8SC]

What are you talking about? SotFS doesn’t change the difficulty level of DS2 at all. It has QOL improvements, but it’s the same game.

Some of the changes -

• the dragon in heide's, plus the heide knights obvs
• some changes to no man's wharf(cant really tell you any details)
• I think some changes to brightstonecove, specifically just before the spider room
• Iron keep Samurai placement is cancer now
• Drangleic theres a room where you would get ambushed by about 10 statues without being able to escape, save you manage to kill them, the statues remain statues now
• shortly after there used to be a lot of archers with greatbows and it was really hard to get to the loot. now has a chariot horse and some of the old knights(same as in heide's)
• shrine of amana enemy placement changed a bit
• in lost bastille theres a "shortcut" where you can essentially skip a bos if you enter from the no mans wharf side. in vanilla it required a pharros stone to open, now its always open
• some new pursuer spawn locations and a few more stone statues gating off paths.
• lot more npc invasions. Fuck forlorn , also sharron and dennis in iron keep.l
• Dragon aerie now is skippable. the shortcut that you previously had to be unlocked is now immediately accessible. but the actual dragon aerie is gated off by a stone statue
• dragon shrine. the dragon bros won't atack you as long as you defeat the big knights before advancing(I think that feature is new). previously you had to fight your way through a lot of dragon bros.

Id say those bolded sections indicate a change in difficulty, certainly seems so from the guy who originally wrote this and this is only a small selection of the changes, of which as I said "Aren't possible without a total rebuild of the game" according to posts in this topic.

 

[HF2014]

Its pretty simple. If Souls games were having an easy mode, the Souls series wouldnt exist. They would become just average action/adventure games. Popularity of these games would not be what it is now.

 

[FunkMiller]

But it looked so good in the PS5 showcase. And that guy playing it seem to mow through enemies. It didn't seem that hard for him.

That would have been the debug character, probably. Really high stats. No beginning character can one shot enemies like that. The whole point of Souls games is that every encounter can kill you to begin with. But as you progress, you get better and stronger.

 

[FunkMiller]

Some of the changes -

• the dragon in heide's, plus the heide knights obvs
• some changes to no man's wharf(cant really tell you any details)
• I think some changes to brightstonecove, specifically just before the spider room
• Iron keep Samurai placement is cancer now
• Drangleic theres a room where you would get ambushed by about 10 statues without being able to escape, save you manage to kill them, the statues remain statues now
• shortly after there used to be a lot of archers with greatbows and it was really hard to get to the loot. now has a chariot horse and some of the old knights(same as in heide's)
• shrine of amana enemy placement changed a bit
• in lost bastille theres a "shortcut" where you can essentially skip a bos if you enter from the no mans wharf side. in vanilla it required a pharros stone to open, now its always open
• some new pursuer spawn locations and a few more stone statues gating off paths.
• lot more npc invasions. Fuck forlorn , also sharron and dennis in iron keep.l
• Dragon aerie now is skippable. the shortcut that you previously had to be unlocked is now immediately accessible. but the actual dragon aerie is gated off by a stone statue
• dragon shrine. the dragon bros won't atack you as long as you defeat the big knights before advancing(I think that feature is new). previously you had to fight your way through a lot of dragon bros.

Id say those bolded sections indicate a change in difficulty, certainly seems so from the guy who originally wrote this and this is only a small selection of the changes, of which as I said "Aren't possible without a total rebuild of the game" according to posts in this topic.

This whole thread is about changing the difficulty of the entire game... and SotFS doesn’t make the game easier.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Some of the changes -

• the dragon in heide's, plus the heide knights obvs
• some changes to no man's wharf(cant really tell you any details)
• I think some changes to brightstonecove, specifically just before the spider room
• Iron keep Samurai placement is cancer now
• Drangleic theres a room where you would get ambushed by about 10 statues without being able to escape, save you manage to kill them, the statues remain statues now
• shortly after there used to be a lot of archers with greatbows and it was really hard to get to the loot. now has a chariot horse and some of the old knights(same as in heide's)
• shrine of amana enemy placement changed a bit
• in lost bastille theres a "shortcut" where you can essentially skip a bos if you enter from the no mans wharf side. in vanilla it required a pharros stone to open, now its always open
• some new pursuer spawn locations and a few more stone statues gating off paths.
• lot more npc invasions. Fuck forlorn , also sharron and dennis in iron keep.l
• Dragon aerie now is skippable. the shortcut that you previously had to be unlocked is now immediately accessible. but the actual dragon aerie is gated off by a stone statue
• dragon shrine. the dragon bros won't atack you as long as you defeat the big knights before advancing(I think that feature is new). previously you had to fight your way through a lot of dragon bros.

Id say those bolded sections indicate a change in difficulty, certainly seems so from the guy who originally wrote this and this is only a small selection of the changes, of which as I said "Aren't possible without a total rebuild of the game" according to posts in this topic.

Yeah, Scholar of the First Sin did change the difficulty, just not always lessened it, though, in some cases it actually added boss encounters like when they added the No Man's Wharf boss to the run-up to the Sinner guy.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Some of the changes -

• the dragon in heide's, plus the heide knights obvs
• some changes to no man's wharf(cant really tell you any details)
• I think some changes to brightstonecove, specifically just before the spider room
• Iron keep Samurai placement is cancer now
• Drangleic theres a room where you would get ambushed by about 10 statues without being able to escape, save you manage to kill them, the statues remain statues now
• shortly after there used to be a lot of archers with greatbows and it was really hard to get to the loot. now has a chariot horse and some of the old knights(same as in heide's)
• shrine of amana enemy placement changed a bit
• in lost bastille theres a "shortcut" where you can essentially skip a bos if you enter from the no mans wharf side. in vanilla it required a pharros stone to open, now its always open
• some new pursuer spawn locations and a few more stone statues gating off paths.
• lot more npc invasions. Fuck forlorn , also sharron and dennis in iron keep.l
• Dragon aerie now is skippable. the shortcut that you previously had to be unlocked is now immediately accessible. but the actual dragon aerie is gated off by a stone statue
• dragon shrine. the dragon bros won't atack you as long as you defeat the big knights before advancing(I think that feature is new). previously you had to fight your way through a lot of dragon bros.

Id say those bolded sections indicate a change in difficulty, certainly seems so from the guy who originally wrote this and this is only a small selection of the changes, of which as I said "Aren't possible without a total rebuild of the game" according to posts in this topic.

They don't. If you'd actually played both versions you'd know that.

 

[FunkMiller]

Its pretty simple. If Souls games were having an easy mode, the Souls series wouldnt exist. They would become just average action/adventure games. Popularity of these games would not be what it is now.

I fail to see how this is so hard for people to understand.

Nobody plays a Souls game for a cinematic, cohesive storyline, or for the RPG elements.

They’d be crap if they were easy.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Some sort of assistance would be better than a easy mode, something like Hades where you get tougher every time you die.

 

[Nehezir]

Why does an easy mode "ruin the game"? Considering there isn't an easy mode, this is a total assumption.

You can't be serious.
"Why do you think that removing a thing you like about a game would ruin that thing?"

what a nonsensical question.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Yeah, you guys know the story in a Souls game isn't even comprehensible without extreme devotion to it, right? lol like I've beaten every entry 5+ times, don't ask me what the fuck they were about, though, lol

 

[T8SC]

They don't. If you'd actually played both versions you'd know that.

Yeah, Scholar of the First Sin did change the difficulty, just not always lessened it, though, in some cases it actually added boss encounters like when they added the No Man's Wharf boss to the run-up to the Sinner guy.

Which is it guys, difficulty changed or not? Lets keep our story straight yeah? The Souls community wont be happy if you contradict each other.

I fail to see how this is so hard for people to understand.

Nobody plays a Souls game for a cinematic, cohesive storyline, or for the RPG elements.

They’d be crap if they were easy.

Thats your opinion and a large assumption, perhaps little Timmy who likes Dungeons & Dragons or HeroQuest atmospheres wants to be able to immerse themselves in a game which is playable without retreading over & over and enjoying some sort of story?

 

[hemo memo]

I don’t know. The game is not made by FS so Sony will probably push Bluepoint to make it a little casual friendly.

 

[T8SC]

You can't be serious.
"Why do you think that removing a thing you like about a game would ruin that thing?"

what a nonsensical question.

Ruin it for who? Because it would make it better for a large populace. Just the 1337 git gud crowd that'd cry into their replica Estus Flask.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Which is it guys, difficulty changed or not? Lets keep our story straight yeah? The Souls community wont be happy if you contradict each other.



Thats your opinion and a large assumption, perhaps little Timmy who likes Dungeons & Dragons or HeroQuest atmospheres wants to be able to immerse themselves in a game which is playable without retreading over & over and enjoying some sort of story?

What one person finds difficult is so subjective there's no denying the changes affect difficulty for people.

 

[mortal]

Yep, fuck the purists.
easy as an option would be great.
it’s an option not a mandatory mode for better players.

Not everything needs to be tailored made for everyone.

Those that find Soulsborne games too difficult should either learn to play them better or find something more their speed.

 

[T8SC]

What one person finds difficult is so subjective there's no denying the changes affect difficulty for people.

Exactly, so it wouldnt take a full rebuild of the game to offer an easier option. It's evidently possible.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Which is it guys, difficulty changed or not? Lets keep our story straight yeah? The Souls community wont be happy if you contradict each other.

The base game was challenging. The revised version is challenging. Keep up.

 

[FunkMiller]

Thats your opinion and a large assumption, perhaps little Timmy who likes Dungeons & Dragons or HeroQuest atmospheres wants to be able to immerse themselves in a game which is playable without retreading over & over and enjoying some sort of story?

Then Little Timmy is going to be bloody disappointed when he plays his ‘easy’ Souls game and finds that the story hardly makes sense on the surface, is mostly hidden in item descriptions, remains vague throughout, and never answers a lot of questions, leaving everything very ambiguous.

 

[T8SC]

The base game was challenging. The revised version is challenging. Keep up.

And another option would also be challenging, for the people who arent the "purists".

Then Little Timmy is going to be bloody disappointed when he plays his ‘easy’ Souls game and finds that the story hardly makes sense on the surface, is mostly hidden in item descriptions, remains vague throughout, and never answers a lot of questions, leaving everything very ambiguous.

Then so be it, but at least he could play it and enjoy the atmosphere from the setting it offers.

 

[Reptars Revenge]

Probably especially for the disabled. I beat the first one don’t know if I’m getting this

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Exactly, so it wouldnt take a full rebuild of the game to offer an easier option. It's evidently possible.

The easiest solution is to just move the sliders on enemy attack damage, enemy health and damage taken by the player. I think part of why people don't want that is 1. some of us the way we play a Souls game is to find an edge in any situation if possible and that means we'd have to play on Easy because we never purposely make it hard on ourselves, we like to believe the game is carefully designed around the experience we get, 2. it WOULD ruin some of the conversation around the game, how many people would we have telling us "game sucks, it's actually easy" and stupid crap like that, God, that's the problem with discussion of most games with difficulty modes on here, honestly, there's always someone who played it on easy, says it's too easy and won't provide proof of what difficulty they completed. 3. If you do the simple solution I said I guarantee we get complaints about how lazily done the easy mode is... and if it's not simple, if they do complex things to make it easier, that's time better spent elsewhere to most of us

 

[rkofan87]

But it looked so good in the PS5 showcase. And that guy playing it seem to mow through enemies. It didn't seem that hard for him.

he was dead at the end.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

And another option would also be challenging, for the people who arent the "purists".

Yet another option is play something else if you don't enjoy challenging games.

 

[Keihart]

Well, threads likes this OP it's why game developers or any developer shouldn't be worried of only pleasing the audience, but more importantly catering to their target audience and even then filter the feedback based on the intended experience. If you don't like to do a simple task that the game asks of you like finding paterns, exploring and learning from your deaths then you are probably not the target audience. You can always play Assasin's Creed and feel like a badass for following compasses and triggering animations by smashing buttons without much consecuence.

 

[Neff]

Cuz then they won't be able to perceive themselves as master hardcore gamers cuz they play challenging Souls games?

Feels like these games are often used to play up one's image.

"Look at me, I play Souls games! I am such a hardcore gamer!".

The Souls series isn't hard per se, but it is unforgiving. Your mistakes are punished very quickly. But once you get into the rhythm of things and learn to keep your cool, they're perfectly manageable.

They're not games which play themselves by any means. However if you're willing to apply yourself and dedicate time to learning the strengths and weaknesses of your weapon, study enemy patterns and so on, you will find yourself making swift progress. Content tourists should stay away, because it's quite simply not their game.

 

[FunkMiller]

Then so be it, but at least he could play it and enjoy the atmosphere from the setting it offers.

But why can’t ‘he’ just go play another atmospheric fantasy game, and leave Souls as it is?

 

[T8SC]

The easiest solution is to just move the sliders on enemy attack damage, enemy health and damage taken by the player. I think part of why people don't want that is 1. some of us the way we play a Souls game is to find an edge in any situation if possible and that means we'd have to play on Easy because we never purposely make it hard on ourselves, we like to believe the game is carefully designed around the experience we get, 2. it WOULD ruin some of the conversation around the game, how many people would we have telling us "game sucks, it's actually easy" and stupid crap like that, God, that's the problem with discussion of most games with difficulty modes on here, honestly, there's always someone who played it on easy, says it's too easy and won't provide proof of what difficulty they completed. 3. If you do the simple solution I said I guarantee we get complaints about how lazily done the easy mode is... and if it's not simple, if they do complex things to make it easier, that's time better spent elsewhere to most of us

If people play it on easy and complain its too easy then thats just dumb. You can't fix stupidity.

However, saying people (purist type) would change the difficulty to easy because you'd never purposefully make it hard ... I simply do not get that. If you play a game to find an edge etc, just play the game in the "normal" difficulty. Resident Evil (1996) had Normal & Easy. There wasn't a hard mode, so you'd just choose the default "Normal" ... those who want Easy have to purposefully select it.

I don't see why this is so difficult, the game would be unchanged for the purists who want to play it that way.

 

[Nehezir]

Ruin it for who? Because it would make it better for a large populace. Just the 1337 git gud crowd that'd cry into their replica Estus Flask.

It doesn't matter who, but the answer is "the existing fanbase". You asked who it'd ruin it for. That's the answer.

"It doesn't matter because the people who treasure it are trash."
Masterfully done, what a powerful argument.


This is why the hardcore crowd treats you whiny losers like an invasive species and no one believes you aren't out to "Take their games". Fuck off back to shovelware, pest.

 

[Tiamat2san]

Not everything needs to be tailored made for everyone.

Those that find Soulsborne games too difficult should either learn to player better or find something more their speed.

If it’s a capable team they could implement it.
i will try demon’s soul because it’s the only exclusive that interest me.
i am preparing myself to the torture it will be.
i am only interested by the universe , the atmosphere.
i would prefer an easy mode too.
not A walking simulator mode, just an easier mode.

 

[Archvile82]

No the difficulty is fine as is, just takes some practice getting the combat and AI attacks down. It's not really that bad when you get in the zone, more often than not player deaths are caused by lack of concentration at that moment or new environment traps.

Obviously the bosses can be a challenge but I played Demon Souls after Dark Souls 1 & 2 and found the bosses a lot easier to deal with (apart from flamelurker and those fking gargoyles ). Oh the mining area was a bit of a bastard too until I got used to the area lol.

 

[Keihart]

Also, accessibility options are no the same as difficulty options i would say.
So having options for people with poor sight or poor hearing or having trouble reaching a specific button i think would be welcomed without much backlash, the problem it's re-balancing the game to make it easier or taking away challenge that it's part of the identity of these games.

 

[FunkMiller]

If it’s a capable team they could implement it.
i will try demon’s soul because it’s the only exclusive that interest me.
i am preparing myself to the torture it will be.
i am only interested by the universe , the atmosphere.
i would prefer an easy mode too.
not A walking simulator mode, just an easier mode.

Tough shit, I guess? There are thousands of games out there for you, if you want a good universe and atmosphere. Frankly, Demon’s Souls does virtually fuck all to explain its universe in a clear manner, so you’d hate it anyway.

 

[T8SC]

It doesn't matter who, but the answer is "the existing fanbase". You asked who it'd ruin it for. That's the answer.

"It doesn't matter because the people who treasure it are trash."
Masterfully done, what a powerful argument.


This is why the hardcore crowd treats you whiny losers like an invasive species and no one believes you aren't out to "Take their games". Fuck off back to shovelware, pest.

So basically, if it was easy, you'd not be able to get a semi and shout "git gud" cos people would be able to play the game normally and topics like this wouldn't exist.

But why can’t ‘he’ just go play another atmospheric fantasy game, and leave Souls as it is?

The genre is thin on the ground for "decent games" that arent utter garbage.

 

[Nehezir]

Also, accessibility options are no the same as difficulty options i would say.
So having options for people with poor sight or poor hearing or having trouble reaching a specific button i think would be welcomed without much backlash, the problem it's re-balancing the game to make it easier or taking away challenge that it's part of the identity of these games.

yeah. I'm pretty on board with ways that assist the disabled in engaging with the current difficulty level.

 

[FunkMiller]

The genre is thin on the ground for "decent games" that arent utter garbage.

So... ‘I want to experience this fantasy world without having to make a big effort, because there aren’t many around’ ...that’s pretty much your argument?

 

[FunkMiller]

Also, accessibility options are no the same as difficulty options i would say.
So having options for people with poor sight or poor hearing or having trouble reaching a specific button i think would be welcomed without much backlash, the problem it's re-balancing the game to make it easier or taking away challenge that it's part of the identity of these games.

No one has a problem with making Souls more accessible to those with disabilities, just the way you outline

 

[peetfeet]

No, bugger off to Era

 

[Vawn]

What are you talking about? SotFS doesn’t change the difficulty level of DS2 at all. It has QOL improvements, but it’s the same game.

Um... yes it changes a lot. I'm not saying one version is more difficult, but they definitely are different. Different enemies in zones, item placements, etc.

 

[T8SC]

So... ‘I want to experience this fantasy world without having to make a big effort, because there aren’t many around’ ...that’s pretty much your argument?

For some people I can imagine that is one of the reasons yes. Not my specific reason mind, but I can imagine it is for some.

 

[Nehezir]

So basically, if it was easy, you'd not be able to get a semi and shout "git gud" cos people would be able to play the game normally and topics like this wouldn't exist.

I wouldn't have the same bar to live up to. Some games are about the dev team setting a static expectation and struggling to meet it. that is a significant segment of the appeal. Multiple difficulties mean I select my own preference of bar from a number of them.

Yes there is also a certain degree of pissing contests and social measuring sticks as well. But they wouldn't exist so strongly without that core element of someone else, someone neutral like a dev team, setting the bar.

 

[FunkMiller]

For some people I can imagine that is one of the reasons yes. Not my specific reason mind, but I can imagine it is for some.

Well, fuck ‘those people’ for being entitled and wanting things easy for themselves.... thus ruining the game for many, many more fans of the series.

People who constantly want other’s enjoyment ruined just so they can be happy are fucking poison. They can just go and do something else, and stop being so selfish. Plenty of other games.

 

[Danjin44]

Souls games don't even have learning curves, the combat system is very simple and anyone can easily pick this and play, all the game is asking is little engagement.

 

[FunkMiller]

Um... yes it changes a lot. I'm not saying one version is more difficult, but they definitely are different. Different enemies in zones, item placements, etc.

The whole point of this thread is about difficulty. Why are you going on about differences that don’t alter the game’s overall difficulty?

 

[01011001]

For people who have a life and don’t have a lot of time to replay the same section over and over again.

It would be great to have an easy setting so I can actually enjoy a Souls game for once.

Ninja Gaiden Black has an easy setting if you died 3 times in a row or something like that. It never took away from the original experience

And please don’t tell me about coop MP. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

DON'T PLAY THE GAME, it's really that easy!

also coop is not time consuming, you literally walk up to a freaking thing, press a button and in comes another player. you fight a boss or through a section and then he disappears again.

this also makes the game ridiculously easy since most people who actively play coop are usually damn good at it and basically solo kill the boss

 

[T8SC]

Well, fuck ‘those people’ for being entitled and wanting things easy for themselves.... thus ruining the game for many, many more fans of the series.

People who constantly want other’s enjoyment ruined just so they can be happy are fucking poison. They can just go and do something else, and stop being so selfish. Plenty of other games.

Stop with this "entitled" bullshit, fucking hell, why is everything these days so "this or that". Oh you like this, you must be entitled, oh you like that, you must be a zoomer etc etc Christ its wearing a bit thin. There's been hard games in the past, there's been easy games in the past. Having an OPTION does not take away anything from your experience, just ignore the fucking easy option.

Yes, an easy option will mean topics like "Omg Dark Souls is so hard" wont appear and you wont be able to spout the usual "Git gud" or "play. something. else" whilst sitting with a semi-on.

 

[Grand Theft Scratchy]

Then they’ll be incredibly disappointed if they just want a story. The Souls games are horrible games to play through first time for story, because you barely get one. The story is obtuse, hard to uncover, and fed to you piece meal. Half the fun of these games is beating the damn thing and then going and finding what the story was all about from watching Vaatividya.

Honestly, the difficulty is the backbone of these games. They’d fucking suck without it.

Players looking for a cinematic narrative should Look elsewhere.

Then I suppose I was mistaken thinking there was more to Demon's Souls than it simply being a difficult game to play. And I don't always need a cinematic narrative to enjoy a game's story. Collecting items and doing some reading as you progress throughout the levels are perfectly fine, as opposed to watching someone's YouTube videos because the developer made it hard to uncover these things. Resident Evil games are great because you can read up more on the story/lore through journal entries and notes but they're also not difficult to uncover while playing and I appreciate that.

 

[rkofan87]

ot i know but with the game not for all of us how will it sell?

 

[Nehezir]

There's probably more but you have to enjoy the kind of niche, obtuse way they do things.

And to be fair, SoulsTubers focused on lore are usually pretty great at their narration. Hawkshaw, Vaati and Silvermont's presentation make really good ways to immerse yourself. there's a reason why players prefer their content over digging through every little thread.