Support NeoGAF

[NoMoChokeSJ]

Seems a bit early to declare anybody anything. Can we atleast wait for the generation to actually start?

 

[Warnen]

Your very welcome for the assistance.

Maybe make a little bit more sense next time?

Sure I‘ll use smaller words next time

 

[Hendrick's]

Looks like it pulls out of gameplay and into a cut-scene.

 

[Md Ray]

Just a reminder... ROP stands for RASTER operations pipeline.

It's called Render Output Units - and aka "Raster Operations Pipeline,"

Specs Dictionary - ROPs | GamersNexus - Gaming PC Builds & Hardware Benchmarks

ROPs - Render Output Units (ROPs) - Also known as "Raster Operations Pipeline," which is more useful in determining the application of a ROP. As wi...

www.gamersnexus.net

 

[dano1]

60 fps is before it's starting getting painful. Most optimal is 120+ fps

Your so right this looks so painful

 

[Md Ray]

Looks like it pulls out of gameplay and into a cut-scene.

Your point?

 

[Starfield]

I'll explain in my post: No

 

[Husky]

The headline stated for THIS generation. PCs don’t have generations.
That why I figured it was for console.

That said everything you said is 100% true!

I do think that though PCs don't "have" generations, they're still participants in the ecosystems of each generation in the same way consoles are. For example, I still think of my PC copy of Alien: Isolation as an eighth-generation game. But yeah, it could be that they just mean for consoles.

 

[Futaleufu]

So, after 2 years of PC raytracing, PS5 is somehow the flag bearer now?

 

[AntonioBanderasXsX]

PC and XSX are both more powerful for RT.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

He is just playing into being a fish like in the avatar

:O

I've just seen his avatar.. whoops!

 

[Hendrick's]

Looks like it pulls out of gameplay and into a cut-scene.

That it's a cut-scene.

 

[acm2000]

control on pc with rtx offers a more complete ray tracing example than any game either console will have this gen.

Max it out and you get ray traced reflections, transparent reflections, indirect diffused lighting, contact shadows, and debris.

 

[Md Ray]

That it's a cut-scene.

It's real-time.

 

[geordiemp]

It's funny to me, because everything was degraded to just TFLOPS and fill rate. It looks like wordplay to simply not admit that the XSX appears to be stronger.
You can have a higher fill rate, but you still can't discount the higher bandwidth and the higher amount of CUs.

In reality it's not even going to matter that much. But the console wars must go on, right...?

And it was even more funny to me when I mentioned that neither will be great at ray tracing but that the XSX will likely have the advantage, and I get a reply from the person saying that I say that without proof... Just a reminder... ROP stands for RASTER operations pipeline. The XSX will have the advantage in RT because of its CUs. The faster pixel output of the PS5 will not help with this, because the ROP will only come into play after the RT operations have already taken place. The PS5 might get better post processing or anti-aliasing techniques. That is assuming that the XSX will hit a limit in its pixel output, which realistically is quite possible.

What matters is cache bandwidth and speed to feed CUs. You will see in 3 days how TF is traded for fast cache.

BVH is 50 % faster if data is in cache than going to memory, its got nothing to do with Cus.

 

[Castef]

No, raytracing will be far better on PC. RTX on/off showcases will be the flagbearers.

But the Sony exclusives are hype as fuck, as always.

This.

 

[Ascend]

What matters is cache bandwidth and speed to feed CUs. You will see in 3 days how TF is traded for fast cache.

BVH is 50 % faster if data is in cache than going to memory, its got nothing to do with Cus.

Actually, in 3 days we will see how bandwidth is reduced and traded for fast cache, not CUs... The 80 CU card exists for a reason...

 

[geordiemp]

Actually, in 3 days we will see how bandwidth is reduced and traded for fast cache, not CUs... The 80 CU card exists for a reason...

Just come back and tell us about TF and memory bandwidth is all that what matters when 23 TF vs 30 TF results are discussed on a 356 bit bus.

Of course CU is important, you need something to do the work and something to feed them faster.

 

[Ascend]

Just come back and tell us about TF and memory bandwidth is all that what matters when 23 TF vs 30 TF results are discussed on a 356 bit bus.

Of course CU is important, you need something to do the work and something to feed them faster.

I never said that is all that matters. But it is a good metric of performance when it is the same architecture.

 

[geordiemp]

I never said that is all that matters. But it is a good metric of performance when it is the same architecture.

Its not the same architecture.

14 CU per shader array vs 10 CU per array
Both have 4 x L1 cache
Likely L2 cache sized by PHY.
2.23 Ghz with smart shift vs 1.825 Ghz.

Not even close. Ps5 L1 cache is already much faster and feeding less CU before we even get into finer details.

At least we cna see the pC architecture, as it has allot moe in common with ps5, XSX is an odd arrangement unlike any others RDNA2 parts.

 

[bender]

It's real-time.

Just another real-time cutscene.

*breaks into song*

Spoiler

 

[MasterCornholio]

Looks like it pulls out of gameplay and into a cut-scene.

It does but it's all real time and the reflections are there during the gameplay portion. It's not like it's prerendered or anything.

 

[Ascend]

Its not the same architecture.

14 CU per shader array vs 10 CU per array
Both have 4 x L1 cache
Likely L2 cache sized by PHY.
2.23 Ghz with smart shift vs 1.825 Ghz.

Not even close. Ps5 L1 cache is already much faster and feeding less CU before we even get into finer details.

They are both RDNA2 based but...

 

[geordiemp]

They are both RDNA2 based but...

Not too sure what you mean, are you referring to the kitty and rogame tweets which mostly refer to for the RDNA2 PC space information prior to the event ? He did not clarify the below tweet so..



Does not matter, 3 days we can see PC part and design and compare.

Ps5 might be same as XSX, might not be, might be like the pC part...

PC part might be same as XSX.....nobody knows.

Do come back. 28th.

 

[sinnergy]

Isn’t the l1 cache of Series X 5 Mb instead of the usual 4 Mb?

 

[geordiemp]

Isn’t the l1 cache of Series X 5 Mb instead of the usual 4 Mb?

L2 thats is 5MB, Just scaled by memory bus width, so extra PHys, extra 1 MB over 5700.

L1 nobody knows anything, other than XSX hot chips L1 was depicted as 4 blocks.

 

[Guilty_AI]

3 months later and i still think its minecraft.
It has all the array of effects and the type of game it is makes it perfect to showcase said effects.

 

[onQ123]

Isn’t the l1 cache of Series X 5 Mb instead of the usual 4 Mb?

I think you mean L2 & it's flexible but 5MB for Xbox Series X 52CUs is smaller per CU than 4MB for RX 5700 XT 40CUs

http://media.redgamingtech.com/rgt-website/2020/08/xboxseries-xhot-chips-gpu-overview-architecture-RDNA2CU.jpg

 

[Raonak]

PS5 seems to be the early flagbearer of raytracing in this launch period. I'm kinda shocked how common it is on PS5 so far.

PC has had it for a while, but the amount of people who have RT compatible cards are still a small minority, where consoles have it as a baseline.

It is kinda mindboggling how MS has nothing new to show off the power of the XSX. Ironic since they were the ones championing raytracing in their marketing.

 

[Maybe It's Medicine?]

Like how the voting options can be boiled down to "yes the ps5 is the greatest thing ever" or "explain why the ps5 isn't the greatest thing ever". Fucking hell.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Haven't seen raytracing yet on the other side, even this late. And that Watch Dogs Legion was SSR as well. Sony will pioneer with great talents they have as usual and great quality control.

 

[Knitted Knight]

Haven't seen raytracing yet on the other side, even this late. And that Watch Dogs Legion was SSR as well. Sony will pioneer with great talents they have as usual and great quality control.

Watch Dog Legions is SSR too? After Gears 5 hopes and dreams? No way...

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Watch Dog Legions is SSR too? After Gears 5 hopes and dreams? No way...

It'll get RT, but the trailer has been shown is using SSR.

 

[Knitted Knight]

It'll get RT, but the trailer has been shown is using SSR.

Interesting... bait and switch with marketing terms then. Ubisoft in its best form.... poor as always.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Interesting... bait and switch with marketing terms then. Ubisoft in its best form.... poor as always.

It's Series S though. Not too far from launch, gonna enjoy enjoy the comparisons.

 

[Knitted Knight]

It's Series S though. Not too far from launch, gonna enjoy enjoy the comparisons.

I was under the impression all you had to do was scale down resultion and quality of textures.... wasn't that the pitch for the S? Is reality setting in?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I was under the impression all you had to do was scale down resultion and quality of textures.... wasn't that the pitch for the S? Is reality setting in?

For simple-minded people.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

So, after 2 years of PC raytracing, PS5 is somehow the flag bearer now?

Within a month of release the PS5 will have more games with raytracing than PC had over the last two years.

 

[Pagusas]

Within a month of release the PS5 will have more games with raytracing than PC had over the last two years.

There are 12 PC games right now with Ray Tracing, are their 12 PS5 RT games in the fist month of launch?

 

[FlyyGOD]

2 weeks out until ps5 comes out and no word on variable rate shading or Machine learning and you guys still think Sonys machine will be better at raytracing with less CU's?

 

[FlyyGOD]

There are 12 PC games right now with Ray Tracing, are their 12 PS5 RT games in the fist month of launch?

Metro Exodus raytracing wipes the floor with spiderman Miles Morales .

 

[alabtrosMyster]

There are 12 PC games right now with Ray Tracing, are their 12 PS5 RT games in the fist month of launch?

That's kind of pathetic, I have not kept tab on either side... But I would not be surprised if the PS5 was within spitting distance of 12 (if there aren't 12 games with RT patches of some sort... mind you it could drive up the amount of PC RT titles along the way).

Still, the fact that there are only 12 RTX games on PC after two years is no accomplishment.

 

[Gamer79]

 

[thelastword]

Well, Miles Morales is leading the console raytracing team with the anchor baton for the moment.....Though it will be eclipsed soon by Gran Turismo 7....

 

[MasterCornholio]

2 weeks out until ps5 comes out and no word on variable rate shading or Machine learning and you guys still think Sonys machine will be better at raytracing with less CU's?

You mean ML via something like Tensor cores or software based?

Both machines are capable of ML via software.

 

[FlyyGOD]

You mean ML via something like Tensor cores or software based?

Both machines are capable of ML via software.

Microsoft has actually come out and talked about Series X having machine learning in hardware while Sony has not.

Xbox Series X Gets Ray Tracing & Machine Learning Specs, Boasting 3-10X Performance Improvement

Microsoft did a system deep dive for the Xbox Series X architecture at the Hot Chips virtual conference, revealing some juicy tidbits.

www.google.com

 

[Justin9mm]

The only place you'll see significant ray tracing is on PC. Because it absolutely tanks the performance of superior tech to what is in the next gen consoles.

That is true but majority of PC Gamers don't have the rig or money to output that RT performance and Res to tank next gen consoles.

It's kind of obvious that PC is always going to be superior so it is kind of irrelevant to the purpose of this thread.

 

[duhmetree]

Microsoft has actually come out and talked about Series X having machine learning in hardware while Sony has not.

Xbox Series X Gets Ray Tracing & Machine Learning Specs, Boasting 3-10X Performance Improvement

Microsoft did a system deep dive for the Xbox Series X architecture at the Hot Chips virtual conference, revealing some juicy tidbits.

www.google.com

you mean DirectML? isn't that available for both?

 

[FlyyGOD]

you mean DirectML? isn't that available for both?

Sony hasn't said a peep about DirectML ,they've been eerily quiet on the subject.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Sony hasn't said a peep about DirectML. They've been eerily quiet on the subject.

So what are you saying the performance difference will be?