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[Topher]

That VRS is very obvious on still screens, like I've already said. Digital Foundry would pick that up straight away.

If that is true then wouldn't DF have picked up on and highlighted that VRS wasn't in use? Or are you assuming that not mentioning VRS specifically means VRS isn't there?

Did DF mention any PS5 specific features? If not, does that mean those features are also not in use and PS5 has performance enhancements on the way in the future as well?

 

[Riky]

I never said ps5 has it ? I said full rdna2 have infinity cache where as xsx and xss don't and that means they r not full rdna2 to begin with.

Ps5 potentially has unified l3 cache but that's not infinity cache .

As for vrs as per technical lead its in dirt 5 .

BTW FYI first batch of final ps5 apu was produced after first batch of xsx apu. So the whole not being ready is just an excuse and damage controlling to be honest with u.

The Microsoft/AMD statement doesn't say that the XBOX is full RDNA2, this is a common misconception
It says that Xbox has full hardware support for the RDNA2 features mentioned at the reveal, as in VRS, Mesh Shaders etc.

 

[MasterCornholio]

"Implemented correctly" this means nothing. If you are using it then a still screen will show it, the point of it is to save performance in areas the player won't notice. A breakdown of a still screen will show it regardless.

Sounds like to me that a player can notice it if it's on the screen that they are looking at. Certainly would be an issue in slower paced games.

The Microsoft/AMD statement doesn't say that the XBOX is full RDNA2, this is a common misconception
It says that Xbox has full hardware support for the RDNA2 features mentioned at the reveal, as in VRS, Mesh Shaders etc.

Is that why we had those rumors about the CUs?

 

[Riky]

I feel he doesn't know what vrs is to be honest. Never seen someone cap this hard for making the image uglier which is what vrs does .

It saves performance where a player wouldn't see it, a player doesn't examine still screenshots and pixel count the resolution of all the textures. It's you who doesn't understand what it is.

 

[Agnostic2020]

The Microsoft/AMD statement doesn't say that the XBOX is full RDNA2, this is a common misconception
It says that Xbox has full hardware support for the RDNA2 features mentioned at the reveal, as in VRS, Mesh Shaders etc.

Whatever they r using the results are underwhelming . After playing miles morales and seeing how impressive the raytracing is and comparing it to watch dog legion, sony's custom solution is much more impressive when used properly .

 

[Riky]

If that is true then wouldn't DF have picked up on and highlighted that VRS wasn't in use? Or are you assuming that not mentioning VRS specifically means VRS isn't there?

Did DF mention any PS5 specific features? If not, does that mean those features are also not in use and PS5 has performance enhancements on the way in the future as well?

I'm not talking about PS5, no need to bring it into it. There have been several multi format breakdowns of Dirt 5, not one has shown VRS on Series X or S.

 

[Riky]

Whatever they r using the results are underwhelming . After playing miles morales and seeing how impressive the raytracing is and comparing it to watch dog legion, sony's custom solution is much more impressive when used properly .

Please keep up, no games have used these features yet. Watch Dogs raytracing looks no different on PS5 than Series X apart from missing puddle reflections which is probably a bug.

 

[Riky]

Sounds like to me that a player can notice it if it's on the screen that they are looking at. Certainly would be an issue in slower paced games.



Is that why we had those rumors about the CUs?

I think it will be obvious on future comparisons if the PS5 implementation isn't the same yes.

 

[Topher]

I'm not talking about PS5, no need to bring it into it. There have been several multi format breakdowns of Dirt 5, not one has shown VRS on Series X or S.

PS5 is the subject of the thread. And the point you are avoiding stands. These breakdowns are not highlighting specific console technology at all. You are making assumptions that because X tech isn't mentioned then that tech is absent.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Please keep up, no games have used these features yet. Watch Dogs raytracing looks no different on PS5 than Series X apart from missing puddle reflections which is probably a bug.

Gears 5 uses variable rate shading.

What's new with Gears 5 on Xbox Series X?

One of the trends we're seeing with this new generation of consoles is the arrival of visual updates for last generatio…

www.eurogamer.net

Another fascinating addition is the implementation of Variable Rate Shading. VRS is used to claw back performance in heavy situations by varying shading precision in a scene which, in turn, allows for a higher average resolution. Check out the image below for a great visualisation of how the effect works out in Gears 5, and how various areas of the frame are rendered at different resolutions depending on content. Impressively, it's not something that is really evident during normal play but having tinkered with Gears Tactics on PC - which includes a somewhat noisy implementation of VRS - I was curious to know what has changed and why the effect was so much improved over what we'd seen before.

I think that proves it's possible to use VRS in games.

Edit: I read through the article a bit more and it appears are using Tier 1 VRS not Tier 2.

Well, apparently the changes are down to using what is known as Tier Two variable rate shading. Gears Tactics uses Tier One, which allows developers to specify the shading rate per draw call, while Tier Two allows for more granular control within a draw call. This allows more precise control over which parts of the screen are adjusted. They use an edge detection filter to figure out the rate of shading and can vary it across the screen in a series of 8x8 tiles. In this case, using VRS basically saves five to 12 per cent of rendering time per frame which leads to a higher average resolution, making for a sharper looking game. Artefacts from VRS are not completely eliminated with Tier Two, but they're very hard to discern.

 

[Riky]

PS5 is the subject of the thread. And the point you are avoiding stands. These breakdowns are not highlighting specific console technology at all. You are making assumptions that because X tech isn't mentioned then that tech is absent.

Because it would be obvious, even between Xbox One X and Series X versions.

 

[Riky]

Gears 5 uses variable rate shading.

What's new with Gears 5 on Xbox Series X?

One of the trends we're seeing with this new generation of consoles is the arrival of visual updates for last generatio…

www.eurogamer.net

I think that proves it's possible to use VRS in games.

I know I watched the video, but we can't see what performance enhancement that gives Vs PS5 as it isn't multiformat.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I know I watched the video, bit we can't see what performance enhancement that gives Vs PS5 as it isn't multiformat.

Maybe none at all or maybe a massive performance advantage.

I've read about a theory that Full RDNA2 features would create a 50% delta between the two. But I haven't seen that yet.

 

[Riky]

Maybe none at all or maybe a massive performance advantage.

I've read about a theory that Full RDNA2 features would create a 50% delta between the two. But I haven't seen that yet.

I remember a quote saying up to 25% performance gain compared to not using it. Until we see a multiformat game that uses it we don't know and we don't know how the Sony version differs either so it's impossible to say at this point.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I remember a quote saying up to 25% performance gain compared to not using it. Until we see a multiformat game that uses it we don't know and we don't know how the Sony version differs either so it's impossible to say at this point.

Just reading through the article it seems like it's similar to how culling works. Curious to see how good the PS5s culling capabilities are since it's something that hasn't really been used yet. I'm pretty sure Sony has customizations that help with performance as well like the cache scrubbers for example.

 

[Topher]

Because it would be obvious, even between Xbox One X and Series X versions.

Differences using specific tech between PS4 Pro and PS5 versions would have obvious as well. And yet, no mention. You need something more concrete than this to come to these conclusions, I'm afraid. Assumptions based on a lack of mention doesn't make any sense.

 

[Riky]

Just reading through the article it seems like it's similar to how culling works. Curious to see how good the PS5s culling capabilities are since it's something that hasn't really been used yet.

Exactly, these games so far are last gen engines taking advantage of some extra power for framerates and resolution boosts. I believe when you think about it this works well for moving from PS4 Pro to PS5 as the tools are a known quantity, you still have 36 compute units, then you get a big increase in CPU power and SSD speed on top.
Presuming the Microsoft GDK isn't such a known quantity at this point and the wider slower GPU is another difference you can see why Series X versions aren't as optimised.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

June 2020? The document used to reference this shows they had access to the non-final GDK as early as November 2019. And it explicitly references development and testing for Scarlett from February on.

That's the document and what you said is true but if you look at retail, it's June 2020 which is the most important because it doesn't matter if you can develop/test internally, it's all about if the games can be certified for retail release. The only retail build that was ready was for PC and there's a simple reason why - games on PC have no certification process to go through.

Also, for anyone who owns an Xbox Series X/S, if you check the "info" for each game, it will literally tell you the dev kit that the game was built on. As far as I know, every game is listed under XDK which is the dev kit for the Xbox One generation.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Just reading through the article it seems like it's similar to how culling works. Curious to see how good the PS5s culling capabilities are since it's something that hasn't really been used yet. I'm pretty sure Sony has customizations that help with performance as well like the cache scrubbers for example.

Even vrs has been patented by Mark cerny and will be used accordingly . Its just not called vrs

 

[Riky]

Differences using specific tech between PS4 Pro and PS5 versions would have obvious as well. And yet, no mention. You need something more concrete than this to come to these conclusions, I'm afraid. Assumptions based on a lack of mention doesn't make any sense.

The reason it isn't obvious is because it hasn't been used yet. VRS would be very noticeable on still screens as Halo Infinite demo shows.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Exactly, these games so far are last gen engines taking advantage of some extra power for framerates and resolution boosts. I believe when you think about it this works well for moving from PS4 Pro to PS5 as the tools are a known quantity, you still have 36 compute units, then you get a big increase in CPU power and SSD speed on top.
Presuming the Microsoft GDK isn't such a known quantity at this point and the wider slower GPU is another difference you can see why Series X versions aren't as optimised.

You have to admit Sony did a great job with creating an apparently weaker system. Nobody expected it to be on par with the XSX. Microsoft in the other hand seemed to have really messed up when it comes to their promise of vastly superior multiplats. Not sure why that happened after all the marketing.

 

[Riky]

You have to admit Sony did a great job with creating an apparently weaker system. Nobody expected it to be on par with the XSX. Microsoft in the other hand seemed to have really messed up when it comes to their promise of vastly superior multiplats. Not sure why that happened after all the marketing.

It's worked so far, it was obvious there wasn't going to be the same difference as say Xbox One X and PS4 Pro, if you look at Dirt Rally 2 and Battlefront 2 then the gap was wider than the 40% GPU advantage.
What will happen when actual next gen games arrive that aren't based around last gen hardware and engines will be more interesting but that's down the road for now. But credit where it's due the PS5 has performed better than expected or the Series X has performed worse I'm not sure.

 

[Neo_game]

There is not much difference now and I do not think there will be much in future as well. If I have to guess then I think PS5 exclusives will be the more impressive one's.

 

[Topher]

That's the document and what you said is true but if you look at retail, it's June 2020 which is the most important because it doesn't matter if you can develop/test internally, it's all about if the games can be certified for retail release. The only retail build that was ready was for PC and there's a simple reason why - games on PC have no certification process to go through.

Also, for anyone who owns an Xbox Series X/S, if you check the "info" for each game, it will literally tell you the dev kit that the game was built on. As far as I know, every game is listed under XDK which is the dev kit for the Xbox One generation.

No idea how you can say it doesn't matter if you can "develop/test internally". Are you saying the work done in the GDK prior to June was a waste and every dev had to start over? Otherwise, it absolutely does matter.

 

[MasterCornholio]

It's worked so far, it was obvious there wasn't going to be the same difference as say Xbox One X and PS4 Pro, if you look at Dirt Rally 2 and Battlefront 2 then the gap was wider than the 40% GPU advantage.
What will happen when actual next gen games arrive that aren't based around last gen hardware and engines will be more interesting but that's down the road for now. But credit where it's due the PS5 has performed better than expected or the Series X has performed worse I'm not sure.

Hopefully the XSX doesn't have any hardware bottlenecks that will stop it from showing us what 12TFs looks like. Many bought the system because they thought all games would be better on it. I think it's up to Microsoft to ensure that they get what they were promised.

 

[Agnostic2020]

No idea how you can say it doesn't matter if you can "develop/test internally". Are you saying the work done in the GDK prior to June was a waste and every dev had to start over? Otherwise, it absolutely does matter.

Instead of listening to feelings of few hard-core fans, Watch the dirt 5 dev talk about gdk and how they used it and how he feels its the most complete dev kit for xbox rill date .

One of it is here:

 

[Riky]

Hopefully the XSX doesn't have any hardware bottlenecks that will stop it from showing us what 12TFs looks like. Many bought the system because they thought all games would be better on it. I think it's up to Microsoft to ensure that they get what they were promised.

I agree and we haven't seen it so far. I personally went for Xbox as unlike a lot of people here it has more games I'm interested in. I've always had Playstation consoles on launch before all the way back to PS1 but I'm into online shooters and arcade style racers, that's my thing. I'm not so into third person action games which is what Sony seem to specialise in and that's great if that's your thing. If Sony had a Killzone or Resistance game now then I'd get one, I had to have a PS4 at launch for Shadow Fall.

 

[Bogroll]

Instead of listening to feelings of few hard-core fans, Watch the dirt 5 dev talk about gdk and how they used it and how he feels its the most complete dev kit for xbox rill date .

One of it is here:

Yeah you're really going to slate who you're in bed with.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Yeah you're really going to slate who you're in bed with.

I like to listen to actual devs rather than upset fans about being over promised and under delivered . But that's just me.

 

[Bogroll]

I like to listen to actual devs rather than upset fanboys about being over promised and under delivered . But that's just me.

He might be telling the truth, maybe he isn't. But use your brain.

 

[MonarchJT]

To top it off Jason said ps5 is better in ways sony can't show now . For example how do u communicate higher clocks is better or unified L3 cache results in better performance than higher clocked cpu .

Xsx was designed with limitations for azure . Racks need more compute units but can't handle high clocks due to heat high number of CU will cause. So that's what xsx got. Lower clocked bigger cu count . Dual usage always has some sacrifices .

ahahah so now is the xsx that came with compromise ? oookay )

 

[Heisenberg007]

You say they are the same things with different names, that's obviously not true. Sony has their own versions that doesn't make them the same. Both Microsoft and AMD said in the reveal that Xbox was the ONLY console to offer full hardware support for those RDNA2 features, if PS5 was the same as you claim then that joint statement would be false, I doubt AMD is lying.
We haven't seen a die shot of PS5 so we can't compare so we don't know how they differ but they obviously do as Microsoft said they waited until AMD had finished.
This makes sense for Microsoft as they are unifying their development tools and hardware support between Xbox and PC.

You say the Xbox GPU is "off the shelf" show me the identical PC GPU.

I know we troll each other, but I won't do that rn.

See, both consoles are based on RDNA2 GPU. If XSX's GPU was "full" RDNA 2, it should have had the Infinity Cache, which it doesn't.

The reason there is parity between XSX's GPU and RDNA2 GPUs on PC is because PC GPUs use Directx12, which is a proprietary tech by Microsoft. So, of course, Sony can't use Directx12 as is. Sony never has. Features like VRS & SF are part of the DX12.

Sony has its own proprietary APIs that does performs the same functions, but they all have different names.

So you see, the difference of RDNA2 is not hardware based. It's more software based. Which is why I think "waiting for specific RDNA2 technology from AMD" is an excuse that we shouldn't buy.

 

[Gudji]

He might be telling the truth, maybe he isn't. But use your brain.

He highlighted and said the dev tools have never been better for a platform launch... twice. First in that official xbox conversation with Mj. Nelson and other time in a xbox fan show/podcast.

There's other dev saying the tools have been available for a long time (that person is here on gaf/era and it's known as Fafalada), this is what that person said:

GDK/gamecore was introduced in 2019. It's easily more mature than anything xbox consoles launched with in the past 3 gens. Of course, there's always improvements going to be coming all the way up to launch, but that goes for all consoles, ps5 quite clearly has stuff coming in hot as well.

VGTech: Call of Duty Black Ops Cold War PS5 vs Xbox Series X|S Frame Rate Comparison

GDK/gamecore was introduced in 2019. It's easily more mature than anything xbox consoles launched with in the past 3 gens. Of course, there's always improvements going to be coming all the way up to launch, but that goes for all consoles, ps5 quite clearly has stuff coming in hot as well. This...

www.resetera.com

Matt has been saying the same thing on era:

3 things:

1) It’s early in the gen on brand new hardware, it will take time for devs to get fully up to speed
2) The PS5 dev tools are simply better and more mature right now
3) It turns out Sony wasn’t lying about “fast and narrow” having some benefits over “wide and slow”

Ultimatly the machines are very close to each other, and that’s the best possible outcome.

VGTech: Call of Duty Black Ops Cold War PS5 vs Xbox Series X|S Frame Rate Comparison

3 things: 1) It’s early in the gen on brand new hardware, it will take time for devs to get fully up to speed 2) The PS5 dev tools are simply better and more mature right now 3) It turns out Sony wasn’t lying about “fast and narrow” having some benefits over “wide and slow” Ultimatly the...

www.resetera.com

The tools bullshit is blown out of proportion, it will improve yes but, it's not magically going to create a performance gap of 20% or more like some fanboys have been claiming.

 

[sinnergy]

What ever confirms both sides just enjoy .

 

[nowhat]

I've read about a theory that Full RDNA2 features would create a 50% delta between the two.

Was this from a friend?

 

[assurdum]

Maybe none at all or maybe a massive performance advantage.

I've read about a theory that Full RDNA2 features would create a 50% delta between the two. But I haven't seen that yet.

It's PR talks. Don't believe it.

 

[M1chl]

Gears 5 uses variable rate shading.

What's new with Gears 5 on Xbox Series X?

One of the trends we're seeing with this new generation of consoles is the arrival of visual updates for last generatio…

www.eurogamer.net

I think that proves it's possible to use VRS in games.

Edit: I read through the article a bit more and it appears are using Tier 1 VRS not Tier 2.

That's Gears Tactics, which is using Tier 1, Tier 2 is Gears 5 XS patch.

 

[assurdum]

Was this from a friend?

I remind something about in the MS paper where they said they can push the 50% of more perfomance thanks to the velocity architecture and blablabla. I don't recall the exact tech explanation, but those theorically peaks (as the 300% of more perfomance thanks to the ML) are very pretentious and I doubt will ever land in such result. It's never happened in this past. Looking to the other side, it seems Sony want to stay more concrete and I approve such attitude more than empty overpromise. Well maybe about the loading time Sony has exaggerated too, but let's see in the future.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

That's the document and what you said is true but if you look at retail, it's June 2020 which is the most important because it doesn't matter if you can develop/test internally, it's all about if the games can be certified for retail release. The only retail build that was ready was for PC and there's a simple reason why - games on PC have no certification process to go through.

Also, for anyone who owns an Xbox Series X/S, if you check the "info" for each game, it will literally tell you the dev kit that the game was built on. As far as I know, every game is listed under XDK which is the dev kit for the Xbox One generation.

Very interesting if true, and would back up all the claims regarding the devkits being very late. Is there any way someone can screencap this? Would be a great way to shut down the talking point that "tools" are being used as an excuse, if Series X/S games are literally using the XDK devkits and outright list that as such.

 

[nowhat]

I remind something about in the MS paper where they said they can push the 50% of more perfomance thanks to the velocity architecture and blablabla. I don't recall the exact tech explanation, but those theorically peaks (as the 300% of more perfomance thanks to the ML) are very pretentious and I doubt will ever land in such result. It's never happened in this past. Looking to the other side, it seems Sony want to stay more concrete and I approve such attitude more than empty overpromise. Well maybe about the loading time Sony has exaggerated too, but let's see in the future.

Bullish (or bullshit) PR statements have been a forte for MS as of late, granted. Power of the cloud, anyone?

But the quip I was going for was, if this is coming from a friend, surely it'd be threadworthy. Some of you will get what I'm going for.

 

[assurdum]

Bullish (or bullshit) PR statements have been a forte for MS as of late, granted. Power of the cloud, anyone?

But the quip I was going for was, if this is coming from a friend, surely it'd be threadworthy. Some of you will get what I'm going for.

Surely they will improve performance, no doubt about it. But I don't believe for a second to such percentage. They are not new to play around the number. Now I'm firmly convinced the RAM setup will be the major issue in this console and won't be easy for all the developers to avoid it, especially if they want push more the paralellism between the many CUs.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Was this from a friend?

Nah just something I read in the speciation thread. Basically the theory was that the delta would be 50% when developers used all of RDNA2 features like VRS and SFS in combination with the extra bandwidth and CUs the XSX has.

That's Gears Tactics, which is using Tier 1, Tier 2 is Gears 5 XS patch.

I definitely got confused between the two. My mistake.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

No idea how you can say it doesn't matter if you can "develop/test internally". Are you saying the work done in the GDK prior to June was a waste and every dev had to start over? Otherwise, it absolutely does matter.

When I say it doesn't matter, it's in regards to what developers have access to. If they don't have access to the GDK because it's not ready yet due to Microsoft waiting for full RDNA 2 feature set which literally just released on PC a few weeks ago, in this sense, it doesn't matter because none of them are using any of the current generation capabilities. They're all using the old previous generation XDK which has NONE of the features for Series X/S including Velocity Architecture and the Decompression Blocks.

There's a reason why only Watch Dogs Legion/COD has Ray Tracing and nothing else. There's a reason why Dirt 5 uses Variable Rate Shading and nothing else. There's a reason why all the other games are using nothing at all. It's because the developers didn't have enough time to implement any of that other stuff because they were still using the XDK instead of the new GDK.

Also, all anyone has to do is look back over the last six months and ask themselves - why was every game Microsoft showed running off PC? Why was there little to no gameplay until mid-October? Why was Ray Tracing for Halo Infinite going to be post launch instead of day one? Before the game was delayed of course. It's because none of it was fully ready yet.

It simply is what it is. Microsoft is behind Sony in this regard and none of us can do anything about it. For me, I just want to start playing the games that I want to play and just have to wait for the GDK to be fully finalized in order to see what all the developers can then do compared to the old, outdated and obsolete XDK that they've been using for the last several years or so.

 

[M1chl]

Nah just something I read in the speciation thread. Basically the theory was that the delta would be 50% when developers used all of RDNA2 features like VRS and SFS in combination with the extra bandwidth and CUs the XSX has.



I definitely got confused between the two. My mistake.

No problem, just wanted to provide some info : )

When I say it doesn't matter, it's in regards to what developers have access to. If they don't have access to the GDK because it's not ready yet due to Microsoft waiting for full RDNA 2 feature set which literally just released on PC a few weeks ago, in this sense, it doesn't matter because none of them are using any of the current generation capabilities. They're all using the old previous generation XDK which has NONE of the features for Series X/S including Velocity Architecture and the Decompression Blocks.

There's a reason why only Watch Dogs Legion/COD has Ray Tracing and nothing else. There's a reason why Dirt 5 uses Variable Rate Shading and nothing else. There's a reason why all the other games are using nothing at all. It's because the developers didn't have enough time to implement any of that other stuff because they were still using the XDK instead of the new GDK.

Also, all anyone has to do is look back over the last six months and ask themselves - why was every game Microsoft showed running off PC? Why was there little to no gameplay until mid-October? Why was Ray Tracing for Halo Infinite going to be post launch instead of day one? Before the game was delayed of course. It's because none of it was fully ready yet.

It simply is what it is. Microsoft is behind Sony in this regard and none of us can do anything about it. For me, I just want to start playing the games that I want to play and just have to wait for the GDK to be fully finalized in order to see what all the developers can then do compared to the old, outdated and obsolete XDK that they've been using for the last several years or so.

Also telling that GDK was ready in June, it's terribly late and you most likely build 80%+ of your game code (not the mention the Graphical pipeline itself) using previous stable SDK and then probably just compile it through the GDK to get certified. It's not uncommon in any sort of SDK situation. Sure a lots of "deprecated API" shit you might be seeing, however it will still compiles. I think anything ready this year is terribly late and this is not really a good thing for MS... They should have building software when they were developing HW. It's possibly the thing which Sony did, however in every case, Sony has way less issue how to make this work, because the software does not expect litteraly thousands of configurations, AMD was probably a lot behind with especially their features which becomes exposed through the DirectX API, which is none of that Sony had to deal with, since they are making their own shit. And good for them, it really shows.

 

[Riky]

I know we troll each other, but I won't do that rn.

See, both consoles are based on RDNA2 GPU. If XSX's GPU was "full" RDNA 2, it should have had the Infinity Cache, which it doesn't.

The reason there is parity between XSX's GPU and RDNA2 GPUs on PC is because PC GPUs use Directx12, which is a proprietary tech by Microsoft. So, of course, Sony can't use Directx12 as is. Sony never has. Features like VRS & SF are part of the DX12.

Sony has its own proprietary APIs that does performs the same functions, but they all have different names.

So you see, the difference of RDNA2 is not hardware based. It's more software based. Which is why I think "waiting for specific RDNA2 technology from AMD" is an excuse that we shouldn't buy.

I've already answered this once but I'll say it again. Read the joint statement that MS and AMD put out, it DOESN'T say that the Xbox GPU is full RDNA2, it says it has full HARDWARE support for the RDNA2 features revealed at the event.
Hardware support is not DX12, that's software. Quite what this difference is we don't know as the PS5 die shot hasn't been sighted yet but there is obviously some sort of difference.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I've already answered this once but I'll say it again. Read the joint statement that MS and AMD put out, it DOESN'T say that the Xbox GPU is full RDNA2, it says it has full HARDWARE support for the RDNA2 features revealed at the event.
Hardware support is not DX12, that's software. Quite what this difference is we don't know as the PS5 die shot hasn't been sighted yet but there is obviously some sort of difference.

Infinity cache is an RDNA 2 hardware feature riky

 

[longdi]

When I say it doesn't matter, it's in regards to what developers have access to. If they don't have access to the GDK because it's not ready yet due to Microsoft waiting for full RDNA 2 feature set which literally just released on PC a few weeks ago, in this sense, it doesn't matter because none of them are using any of the current generation capabilities. They're all using the old previous generation XDK which has NONE of the features for Series X/S including Velocity Architecture and the Decompression Blocks.

There's a reason why only Watch Dogs Legion/COD has Ray Tracing and nothing else. There's a reason why Dirt 5 uses Variable Rate Shading and nothing else. There's a reason why all the other games are using nothing at all. It's because the developers didn't have enough time to implement any of that other stuff because they were still using the XDK instead of the new GDK.

Also, all anyone has to do is look back over the last six months and ask themselves - why was every game Microsoft showed running off PC? Why was there little to no gameplay until mid-October? Why was Ray Tracing for Halo Infinite going to be post launch instead of day one? Before the game was delayed of course. It's because none of it was fully ready yet.

It simply is what it is. Microsoft is behind Sony in this regard and none of us can do anything about it. For me, I just want to start playing the games that I want to play and just have to wait for the GDK to be fully finalized in order to see what all the developers can then do compared to the old, outdated and obsolete XDK that they've been using for the last several years or so.

Nice summary.
Amd RX6800 was released late Nov says it all.
I still remember Sony was proud of 'captured on ps5' footages shown as early as Jun. The fanboys got into a jiffy when MS was showing 'PC footages'
It is what it is.
SX/SS are fighting with one hand tied as of launch.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Nice summary.
Amd RX6800 was released late Nov says it all.
I still remember Sony was proud of 'captured on ps5' footages shown as early as Jun. The fanboys got into a jiffy when MS was showing 'PC footages'
It is what it is.
SX/SS are fighting with one hand tied as of launch.

Thank you.

Everyone was annoyed when Microsoft was showing gameplay off PC. Myself included. Because at that time, it's like, what are you doing? Why aren't you showcasing the Series X which is a fucking beast? It made no sense five months ago. Now, it all makes sense but it's still disappointing because it's not what we all want to see.

I'm not expecting a massive difference until their GDK is finalized and cross-gen ends. SO basically by late 2021/early 2022 is when we should finally see development studios have the time needed to fully and correctly implement everything that they want.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Also telling that GDK was ready in June, it's terribly late and you most likely build 80%+ of your game code (not the mention the Graphical pipeline itself) using previous stable SDK and then probably just compile it through the GDK to get certified. It's not uncommon in any sort of SDK situation. Sure a lots of "deprecated API" shit you might be seeing, however it will still compiles. I think anything ready this year is terribly late and this is not really a good thing for MS... They should have building software when they were developing HW. It's possibly the thing which Sony did, however in every case, Sony has way less issue how to make this work, because the software does not expect litteraly thousands of configurations, AMD was probably a lot behind with especially their features which becomes exposed through the DirectX API, which is none of that Sony had to deal with, since they are making their own shit. And good for them, it really shows.

Agreed. The main issue was Microsoft waiting on AMD to finalize their full RDNA 2 feature set. Microsoft was basically handcuffed until then because you can't give developers access to kits and tools that you yourself don't have yet.

It sucks now so to speak but Microsoft felt that waiting for the full RDNA 2 feature set was/is worth the cost of what the narrative is now and into 2021. Of course, it being worth the wait remains to be seen.

 

[Topher]

When I say it doesn't matter, it's in regards to what developers have access to. If they don't have access to the GDK because it's not ready yet due to Microsoft waiting for full RDNA 2 feature set which literally just released on PC a few weeks ago, in this sense, it doesn't matter because none of them are using any of the current generation capabilities. They're all using the old previous generation XDK which has NONE of the features for Series X/S including Velocity Architecture and the Decompression Blocks.

There's a reason why only Watch Dogs Legion/COD has Ray Tracing and nothing else. There's a reason why Dirt 5 uses Variable Rate Shading and nothing else. There's a reason why all the other games are using nothing at all. It's because the developers didn't have enough time to implement any of that other stuff because they were still using the XDK instead of the new GDK.

Also, all anyone has to do is look back over the last six months and ask themselves - why was every game Microsoft showed running off PC? Why was there little to no gameplay until mid-October? Why was Ray Tracing for Halo Infinite going to be post launch instead of day one? Before the game was delayed of course. It's because none of it was fully ready yet.

It simply is what it is. Microsoft is behind Sony in this regard and none of us can do anything about it. For me, I just want to start playing the games that I want to play and just have to wait for the GDK to be fully finalized in order to see what all the developers can then do compared to the old, outdated and obsolete XDK that they've been using for the last several years or so.

Well, that is a lot of assumptions. Factually, the GDK was available to developers in November 2019 at the very least and development and testing was available in February. As far as what features were in each release after that, we don't know and anything said about that is pure speculation. What we have in that document was leaked from behind Microsoft's development program which is not publicly accessible.

As far as devs using the XDK instead of the GDK. That is false. The Dirt 5 developer referenced it in the video above that Agnostic2020 posted. The June 2020 document shows that release is required for certification and publication to retail.

AMD's PC GPU release and announcement schedule doesn't necessarily mean anything as far as Xbox is concerned Probably has a heck of a lot more to do with Nvidia than Xbox. But this is trying to connect dots for its own sake. There isn't any factual information to draw conclusions from. Just more speculation

What isn't speculation is what the devs are saying and frankly, it doesn't jive with forum comments, unsurprisingly. I expect the development of both consoles will continue to mature over the course of the gen as they always do.