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[Schnozberry]

The problem is that I don't buy that MS is far behind in the tools, apparently their new SDK is mostly a revamp of the existing one (which is logic) with an extra layer to help unite all their platform's code.

I'm don't think it's that hard to believe. Finalization of DX12 Ultimate was delayed for months. Final software feature set wasn't revealed until July.

 

[ethomaz]

Let's use some reasoning here. Sony's architecture on PS5 is that different from PS4. It require less changes and less need to overhaul tools.

Xbox S/X has a very different architecture from previous Xbox one hardware. With a different architecture, they need more tool changes.

Wut?

What is different from Xbox One X and Xbox Series X except the increase in raw power?

PS4 to PS5 has a lot of custom changes made by Sony.

Series X is the reasonable successful model Sony did last gen: PS4 -> PS4 Pro -> XB1X -> XSX.

 

[Dave_at_Home]

No, it's being realistic. All things considered it's not remotely fair to compare the two, in fact in a couple games the SX has an edge but people are so worried about the wins the PS5 is taking they don't see that in a few years the differences will become obvious. The SSD got exposed as not really being all that different and Sony could've used a cheaper OTS for the same results and pumped up the CPU/GPU.

Absolutely not true. Please don't tell me you're basing all of this on cross-gen titles...

Sony's SSD and I/O isn't merely about how fast a fighting game can load into its match or whatever. When you can load assets into RAM so quickly it fundamentally changes how you utilize RAM. Cerny has stated in the Road to PS5 that the goal was to load assets faster than the player can turn around. This means a few things.

• You no longer need "cold assets" sitting in RAM as a way to keep a buffer between the player and areas they may explore (open-worlds are a good example of this).
• No more hiding load screens behind forced "walking and talking" dialog scenes. As well as long traversals in corridors and other such ways of hiding.
• More assets and higher quality assets to draw! Now that there's more space in RAM you can crank up the details. Bluepoint has already talked about doing this very thing for Demons Souls.
• Data moves with astonishing efficiency thanks to the I/O and absolutely no CPU check-in required. Bluepoint mentioned, in an offhand comment, moving data 4 gigs per second compressed. I bet you anything there are scenes where that number is higher, and Bluepoint has admitted themselves that they didn't come close to tapping out the PS5.

I guess to conclude, you can't mention the SSD without the absolutely insane I/O. Literally the heart of the PS5 is the I/O. It's not just the SSD being 5.5 raw throughput. It's the SSD having six tiers of priority and an I/O that is industry leading. There's nothing on the consumer market today that comes close. You don't get the PS5 matching and exceeding Series X without it. You've already seen the evidence yourself. It's really not that hard to find out all the other hardware tweaks the PS5 has to push it so efficiently. Coherency engine, cache scrubbers, GPU speed, and not to mention still rumored infinity cache and unified L3 cache on CPU. Hope this helps.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I'm don't think it's that hard to believe. Finalization of DX12 Ultimate was delayed for months. Final software feature set wasn't revealed until July.

This doesn’t mean what you think it means.

You believe devs didn’t have “access” to certain hw features on Xbox before July 2020 or something?

 

[AGRacing]

Just at a very very basic level.... It is becoming clear there are subtle differences in these 2 graphics core architectures even though they are both "based on" RDNA2.

And of course we all realize these differences can mean different actual results PER TERAFLOP. There are other factors involved. Latency seemed like a big Sony focus.

2 different vehicles can both have engines that output exactly 300HP but other factors will prevent them from hitting the finish at the same time.

If you think of it those terms it becomes clear why yelling your teraflop number from the rooftops over and over while we know very little else about these GPUs isnt a good idea. It is simply the measurable that was most heavily marketed. It is the "16 bit" of our time.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

I don't think Sony over delivered, it's MS that did not deliver anything close to the hype they themselves built for their machine.

So as a consumer you feel MS has delivered?

All they offer is promises... this is all they have done for 10+ years now. excuses, one year after the other.

I mean, sure they could pull off some nifty tricks, but I would not expect them to pull ahead. I just don't think this is realistic, just like when they promised DX 12 and the cloud would have them at least catch up to the PS4 with the one. Given what their hardware is I would not expect too much anyway, this is all well known technology, there is not much maturity to gain there.

Their best hope is for some of their studios to start delivering games that are actually compelling and they get attention this way, I'd say at best this will make them as appealing as Sony (which would be great, Sony is my favorite publisher)... but this may still be 2 or 3 years down the road, by this time it may be too little too late.

I don't have a Series X or PlayStation 5 as of now but I was finally able to snag a Series X off the Microsoft Store the other day and should be receiving it by December 23rd. I believe Microsoft relied and depended way too much on Halo Infinite and that obviously didn't go as planned. While I will play Halo Infinite when the time comes, I have never played a Halo game but will play through the main line games before Infinite so unlike most, there's no attachment to the franchise whatsoever.

I do believe that they're behind in their SDK because it's of public record due to waiting for RDNA 2. Third parties only had the SDK since June 2020 and considering that it can take 6-8 weeks to get a game certified for retail release, having the games that we do have for launch is surprising since every game (including Sony's) were coming in hot because the entire year has fucked everything up for everyone including when it comes developing games. To see Watch Dogs Legion have Ray Tracing at launch is simply amazing because it's not just that the SDK is only five months old and still not finalized, it's that the development studios had maybe three months if that to implement what they wanted to implement or better still, implemented what they could.

Microsoft put everything into Halo Infinite and it backfired. They should have had a plan B and a plan C but at the same time, when you look at all of their studios, there was never going to be enough time even without Covid-19 because every studio had either already released a game like Rare/Undead Labs/Playground did in 2018 with Sea of Thieves/State of Decay 2/Forza Horizon 5 or was going to release a game in 2019/2020 like The Coalition/Obsidian/InXile did with Gears 5/The Outer Worlds/Wasteland 3 and for a few of them like Obsidian and InXile, they're contractually obligated to fulfill them.

Sure, Microsoft could have held a few games back for launch like Ori and the Will of the Wisps, Bleeding Edge, Minecraft Dungeons, Battletoads and Tell Me Why but regardless of the quality, it wouldn't have mattered much if at all because they were all set to release before Series X/Series S as majority of them would get buried at launch.

Having Gears Tactics at launch in regards to quality is great and is a game I will be playing but it is niche and not going to set the world on fire. A few other games like Crossfire X, The Ascent, The Medium and a few other smaller titles were all delayed to 2021 so even from Global Publishing, they had nothing else.

You could say it's disappointing but considering that im more hyped for Assassin's Creed Valhalla, Immortals Fenyx Rising and to a lesser extent, Watch Dogs Legion, I wouldn't have been playing any of those delayed games at launch anyway even if had the Series X already. And if Halo Infinite did launch without Ray Tracing, I would have waited especially since I need to play through the six other games in the series.

I look at it this way - im getting arguably the best AC game since Black Flag and I love AC. I'm getting what will be for me, the BOTW killer in Immortals and I will see how good Ubisoft's Ray Tracing implementation is with WD Legion. Plus, I do have that Bright Memory demo as im super hyped for Bright Memory Infinite next year as well as the previously mentioned Gears Tactics and I will also have within the next ten days or so, the Gears 5 Hivebusters DLC so overall, I personally have more than enough to play.

Overall, I will be getting 60FPS and faster loading times all while playing on an LG 55" CX OLED so I have minimal to no complaints esecially if I compare this launch to 2013 which I skipped and didn't bother buying a PS4 until May 2014 for Watch Dogs and a few other games.

PlayStation 5 wise, Sony has done an amazing job, no doubt. Sackboy is a good platformer and easily better than Knack. Demon's Souls is excellent but also a niche title. The main game is Spider Man: Miles Morales but it's a cross-gen title which means you don't need to buy a PS5 to play it. Outside of Demon's Souls, there's not a single exclusive on either side that you can't play on PS4/Xbox One.

Personally, I only care about Miles Morales and will play it when I eventually buy a PS5 in the Spring 2021 or later. Exclusives wise, for me personally, I will have 2 games for both platforms through 2021. Spider Man: Miles Morales and Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart for PS5 along with Gears Tactics and Halo Infinite for Series X. The rest I have no interest in and until it actually releases, I don't believe Horizon 2 or GOWR are releasing in 2021.

So overall, while I can't say that Microsoft delivered due to not having the console yet, I can say that im the most hyped going into a generation overall than I have ever been and more hyped for Xbox than I have in over a decade. There's simply way too much great stuff to be bogged down by all this other shit. The generation just started. Both companies are off to a great start and I do believe that having Halo Infinite in November 2021 is far more important for Xbox than it would have been at launch for the simple reason that regardless of which console it is, they all sell out at launch.

Does Microsoft have to execute and hit with their first party titles down the line? Absolutely. Am I expecting every one of them to hit or for me to be interested? No. Same as Sony for me. I play the games that I truly want to play and the rest get ignored.

I can say that future wise, excluding the 4 exclusives I listed about for 2020/2021, im interested in Horizon II: Forbidden West and God of War Ragnarok for PS5 which would give me as of now, 4 exclusives that im looking forward playing on PS5. For Xbox Series X, I have Starfield, The Elder Scrolls VI, Wolfenstein III, Hellblade II, Fable, Avowed and State of Decay 3 that im looking forward to playing on XSX. Total exclusives is 9 including the two I listed a few paragraphs above.

Granted, the exclusives for Xbox won't truly get going until 2022 at the earliest but that doesn't bother me for two reasons - first, I already knew this since E3 2018 as all you have to do is look at the studios Microsoft acquired and figure out when their first next gen title would most likely hit and second, I owned a PS4 which was my primary gaming console and exclusives for me that were great or better didn't hit until 2016. Over 2 years after launch so if I get exclusives in 2022 that I want to play, they would surpass PS4 by a year for me.

So it all depends on how you want to look at it and what you prefer. I will own both next gen consoles like I always have since SNES/GEN so for me, it doesn't matter as no game is out of reach or unplayable. So while yes, I can understand that some people may be disappointed with Xbox Series X, I don't have the console yet so I can't say either way but on paper, im super hyped and want the next few weeks to zoom by so I can start playing the games that I have been looking forward to playing for months.

Apologies for the long reply.

 

[Schnozberry]

This doesn’t mean what you think it means.

You believe devs didn’t have “access” to certain hw features on Xbox before July 2020 or something?

No, that's not what I said. It means they possibly didn't have access to properly optimized drivers and software kits until pretty late in the process. I haven't seen any coverage of massive improvements to Xbox Game Core since July. For instance, developers were having to use a workaround for SMT because the June GDK didn't yet have native support.

Most launch games aren't using VRS, Mesh Shading, Sampler Feedback, etc anyways.

 

[Valued Gamer]

People should calm their heels about "bottlenecks talk.
What do people think both AMD and MS were doing when they were spending millions upon millions of dollars, and thousands and thousands of man hours developing the XSX?
Do you think they just said "throw on the GPU, add some RAM and pick out a CPU"?

Nah, they would have tested that console to make sure it delivered the 560gbs of RAM bandwidth. They just don't add the ram to the bus and say "well, theoretically that should give us 560gbs, job done", they actually test it to make sure it does give that bandwidth in real world, under load.
Same goes for the CPU, GPU and then as a total package. You are stupid if you don't think from the hardware point of view that the GPU doesn't give 12tflops, that the CPU is bottlenecked or anything else.
Its once you put the APIs and software across it that you find your bugs.
I'm going to sit this one out a little longer before claiming a winner.

 

[Mobilemofo]

Jim wants that avatar gone by tommorow morning.

Never thought I'd see the day when an avatar has both Rolf Harris and Kojima in the same pic.

 

[Mobilemofo]

Another area is maintaining higher resolutions and more detail than 12TF machine

Not even really a 12 tf machine. Never reache it in normal conditions and also, direct X Takes a chunk. Bout 10.5 / 11tf in reality. Damn fine machine tho..

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

TBH, I also thought the difference would be at least 15-20% with the potential to be upto 40% if all that FUD about the PS5 clocks, lack of VRS and it heating up was true. I even fell for the Dusk Golem nonsense about the PS5 running at half the resolution of the xsx version.

But 15-20% was pretty much a given and yet we are not even seeing that anymore. It was all nonsense and it seems Andrew Reiner, Colin Moriarity, Kleegamefan on era and Jason Schrier were all right about devs telling them the ps5 was more powerful.

Yeah that's the thing....developers don't "dev" in teraflops.

So Andrew Reiner saying PS5's dev kits were faster could have been 100% true, along with PS5 having less TFlops.

I honestly wonder if they are even given ANY information about TFlops at all. Why would they need it?

 

[azertydu91]

It worked for ps3 fans didn’t it. When Xbox had better graphics until last of us and uncharted 2 came out deep into that gen.

No it still had mostly subpar multiplats, but they had amazing studios and a unconventionnal architecture. Not basic bitch components condensed in a small pc tower.
The ps3 had a cpu more powerful than that of the ps4, that is unusual. Now tell me what is unusual about xsx ?

 

[SlimySnake]

Yeah that's the thing....developers don't "dev" in teraflops.

So Andrew Reiner saying PS5's dev kits were faster could have been 100% true, along with PS5 having less TFlops.

I honestly wonder if they are even given ANY information about TFlops at all. Why would they need it?

i think both Reiner and Klee later clarified that they were talking about tflops. but Colin and Jason never did. its possible klee and reiner just assumed they were talking about tflops.

that said, klee did end up being right about the ps5 having double digit tflops.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Let's use some reasoning here. Sony's architecture on PS5 is that different from PS4. It require less changes and less need to overhaul tools.

Xbox S/X has a very different architecture from previous Xbox one hardware. With a different architecture, they need more tool changes.

Is this a joke or u r just an apologist for ms? They are both x86 architecture with same zen cpu and rdna gpu. Xsx is designed with server racks for azure in mind (lower clock and more cu therefore lower total heat as racks can't handle it) ps5 is designed for cosnole gaming and thats why its playing games better.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

i think both Reiner and Klee later clarified that they were talking about tflops. but Colin and Jason never did. its possible klee and reiner just assumed they were talking about tflops.

that said, klee did end up being right about the ps5 having double digit tflops.

Yeah I'm just not sure why they would even give that info out. They would know the clocks, but presumably wouldn't necessarily know the exact APU hardware inside the dev kit to calculate a precise TFlop figure.

This has been pretty embarassing for Phil. I really wish the guy would just shut up because you can't continue to disappoint like this and expect people to believe you any longer. He has zero credibility.

 

[Agnostic2020]

i think both Reiner and Klee later clarified that they were talking about tflops. but Colin and Jason never did. its possible klee and reiner just assumed they were talking about tflops.

that said, klee did end up being right about the ps5 having double digit tflops.

To top it off Jason said ps5 is better in ways sony can't show now . For example how do u communicate higher clocks is better or unified L3 cache results in better performance than higher clocked cpu .

Xsx was designed with limitations for azure . Racks need more compute units but can't handle high clocks due to heat high number of CU will cause. So that's what xsx got. Lower clocked bigger cu count . Dual usage always has some sacrifices .

 

[SlimySnake]

Is this a joke or u r just an apologist for ms? They are both x86 architecture with same zen cpu and rdna gpu. Xsx is designed with server racks for azure in mind (lower clock and more cu therefore lower total heat as racks can't handle it) ps5 is designed for cosnole gaming and thats why its playing games better.

Also, the xsx and x1x have the same exact architecture right down to the ram. x1x did not have the esram either.

if anything, the ps5 architecture is a bit more complex since they have added so much in the i/o that wasnt there before. good thing is that the devs dont really have to worry about it since its all there to make the gpu and cpu more efficient.

 

[SlimySnake]

To top it off Jason said ps5 is better in ways sony can't show now . For example how do u communicate higher clocks is better or unified L3 cache results in better performance than higher clocked cpu .

Xsx was designed with limitations for azure . Racks need more compute units but can't handle high clocks due to heat high number of CU will cause. So that's what xsx got. Lower clocked bigger cu count . Dual usage always has some sacrifices .

how do they even run four instances of x1s on one xbox series x apu anyway? yes, they have enough CUs and clocks for four separate x1s games, but the cpu doesnt have 32 cores. it doesnt really matter if the xsx has 16 threads because the cores will be taken up by one of the games at all times.

also the ram on the xsx is only 16 gb which means they can only run 3 games. they will need to increase it to 20 gb minimum.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Also, the xsx and x1x have the same exact architecture right down to the ram. x1x did not have the esram either.

if anything, the ps5 architecture is a bit more complex since they have added so much in the i/o that wasnt there before. good thing is that the devs dont really have to worry about it since its all there to make the gpu and cpu more efficient.

Exactly. People talk like xsx is some exotic architecture like cell in ps3 when its the same gpu and cpu made by amd for both of these console. Its laughable

 

[fybyfyby]

Its not so much surprising. DXR is not so much efficient. It is higher level api than low level sony one.

 

[Topher]

I do believe that they're behind in their SDK because it's of public record due to waiting for RDNA 2. Third parties only had the SDK since June 2020 and considering that it can take 6-8 weeks to get a game certified for retail release, having the games that we do have for launch is surprising since every game (including Sony's) were coming in hot because the entire year has fucked everything up for everyone including when it comes developing games. To see Watch Dogs Legion have Ray Tracing at launch is simply amazing because it's not just that the SDK is only five months old and still not finalized, it's that the development studios had maybe three months if that to implement what they wanted to implement or better still, implemented what they could.

June 2020? The document used to reference this shows they had access to the non-final GDK as early as November 2019. And it explicitly references development and testing for Scarlett from February on.

 

[Riky]

No, that's not what I said. It means they possibly didn't have access to properly optimized drivers and software kits until pretty late in the process. I haven't seen any coverage of massive improvements to Xbox Game Core since July. For instance, developers were having to use a workaround for SMT because the June GDK didn't yet have native support.

Most launch games aren't using VRS, Mesh Shading, Sampler Feedback, etc anyways.

This.

Microsoft waited for the full RDNA2 hardware support, I haven't seen any games using these features yet. Even Dirt 5 which does on PC doesn't seem to use them. Once game engines start to integrate these features on PC and Xbox we will see huge performance gains I'm sure.

 

[Tripolygon]

This.

Microsoft waited for the full RDNA2 hardware support, I haven't seen any games using these features yet. Even Dirt 5 which does on PC doesn't seem to use them. Once game engines start to integrate these features on PC and Xbox we will see huge performance gains I'm sure.

Dirt uses VRS on Xbox Series S/X according to the technical director.

 

[Heisenberg007]

This.

Microsoft waited for the full RDNA2 hardware support, I haven't seen any games using these features yet. Even Dirt 5 which does on PC doesn't seem to use them. Once game engines start to integrate these features on PC and Xbox we will see huge performance gains I'm sure.

What full RDNA2 support? PS5 has the same things with different names -- except SFS. Both consoles are based on RDNA 2.

Plus, PS5's RDNA2 GPU is more customized than the off-the-shelf GPU that XSX has. We all know that. Sony also did customizations like Smart Shift, Cache Scrubbers, Continuous Boost, and Variable Clocks.

Only MS was late? And why did no one talk about it before comparisons came in? At that time, the only narrative was that MS caught Sony off-guard, and now Sony is rushing in PS5.

 

[Gudji]

This.

Microsoft waited for the full RDNA2 hardware support, I haven't seen any games using these features yet. Even Dirt 5 which does on PC doesn't seem to use them. Once game engines start to integrate these features on PC and Xbox we will see huge performance gains I'm sure.

Can't wait for the FULL RDNA2 dream to be shattered in a few months.

 

[Riky]

Dirt uses VRS on Xbox Series S/X according to the technical director.

It hasn't shown up in any of the breakdowns though.

 

[MrLove]

What full RDNA2 support? PS5 has the same things with different names -- except SFS. Both consoles are based on RDNA 2.

Plus, PS5's RDNA2 GPU is more customized than the off-the-shelf GPU that XSX has. We all know that. Sony also did customizations like Smart Shift, Cache Scrubbers, Continuous Boost, and Variable Clocks.

Only MS was late? And why did no one talk about it before comparisons came in? At that time, the only narrative was that MS caught Sony off-guard, and now Sony is rushing in PS5.

SFS is an old feature, even standard on PS4. Is just marketing for peasents. If you dont believe me

AMD Radeon HD 7970 Review: 28nm And Graphics Core Next, Together As One

www.anandtech.com

Standard on PS4 2013 and nothing special or new (Partially Resident Textures) same like SFS, only different name

http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdceurope2013/Presentations/825424RichardStenson.pdf

MS official description of SFS.

DirectX-Specs/d3d/SamplerFeedback.md at master · microsoft/DirectX-Specs

Engineering specs for DirectX features. Contribute to microsoft/DirectX-Specs development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

 

[Topher]

It hasn't shown up in any of the breakdowns though.

But it doesn't seem like VRS is something you can point to and recognize like you would ray tracing.

 

[Armorian]

It hasn't shown up in any of the breakdowns though.

You wouldn't see good implementation of VRS, that's the whole point to cut GFX quality in places that the player won't notice

 

[Black discover]

And cyberpunk seems to looks better on ps5 already

 

[Riky]

You wouldn't see good implementation of VRS, that's the whole point to cut GFX quality in places that the player won't notice

I said in breakdowns, it's very obvious on still screens, go look at some of the Halo Infinite shots for example. If it was being used Digital Foundry would pick it up straight away.

 

[Mr Moose]

I said in breakdowns, it's very obvious on still screens, go look at some of the Halo Infinite shots for example. If it was being used Digital Foundry would pick it up straight away.

Maybe it was being used in 120fps mode and that's why it looked how it did

 

[Riky]

What full RDNA2 support? PS5 has the same things with different names -- except SFS. Both consoles are based on RDNA 2.

Plus, PS5's RDNA2 GPU is more customized than the off-the-shelf GPU that XSX has. We all know that. Sony also did customizations like Smart Shift, Cache Scrubbers, Continuous Boost, and Variable Clocks.

Only MS was late? And why did no one talk about it before comparisons came in? At that time, the only narrative was that MS caught Sony off-guard, and now Sony is rushing in PS5.

You say they are the same things with different names, that's obviously not true. Sony has their own versions that doesn't make them the same. Both Microsoft and AMD said in the reveal that Xbox was the ONLY console to offer full hardware support for those RDNA2 features, if PS5 was the same as you claim then that joint statement would be false, I doubt AMD is lying.
We haven't seen a die shot of PS5 so we can't compare so we don't know how they differ but they obviously do as Microsoft said they waited until AMD had finished.
This makes sense for Microsoft as they are unifying their development tools and hardware support between Xbox and PC.

You say the Xbox GPU is "off the shelf" show me the identical PC GPU.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I said in breakdowns, it's very obvious on still screens, go look at some of the Halo Infinite shots for example. If it was being used Digital Foundry would pick it up straight away.

That's Dirt 5 on PC that has VRS.



This is an example of a bad implementation of VRS.

You say they are the same things with different names, that's obviously not true. Sony has their own versions that doesn't make them the same. Both Microsoft and AMD said in the reveal that Xbox was the ONLY console to offer full hardware support for those RDNA2 features, if PS5 was the same as you claim then that joint statement would be false, I doubt AMD is lying.
We haven't seen a die shot of PS5 so we can't compare so we don't know how they differ but they obviously do as Microsoft said they waited until AMD had finished.
This makes sense for Microsoft as they are unifying their development tools and hardware support between Xbox and PC.

You say the Xbox GPU is "off the shelf" show me the identical PC GPU.

Remains to be seen if RDNA2 is just another GPU in the power supply or not.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

I'm don't think it's that hard to believe. Finalization of DX12 Ultimate was delayed for months. Final software feature set wasn't revealed until July.

It's hard to believe that it will make much of an actual difference... Or that Sony will somehow remain stagnant.

I mean, we have plenty of history behind this, being late doesn't tell us about the nature the issues (it may be at other levels that would make zero difference in the performance of the product)... Sony doesn't even have vrr support on the ps5 right now, isn't that a much more worrysome as far a tools maturity level? The 3d audio features Cerny made a big fuss about don't seem to be anywhere to be seen, the OS is not very stable (maybe it got better, but it didn't release in a very good state).

If we are to have any hint that Sony or MS have some work ahead as far as software maturity for their latest console it's Sony.

June 2020? The document used to reference this shows they had access to the non-final GDK as early as November 2019. And it explicitly references development and testing for Scarlett from February on.

There you go.

 

[Riky]

That's Dirt 5 on PC that has VRS.

I said that.

I've seen no actual evidence that the Xbox version uses it, it hasn't shown in comparisons and VRS would be obvious in still screens. Codemasters said there was more to come when asked about a patch for the settings bug so maybe it will be added later.

You say that Halo shot is "bad implementation" look at the rest of the shot instead of cherry picking a small section, the grunts are side on and facing the player, so the player wouldn't see that viewpoint.

 

[Entroyp]

Well he was right about being pleasantly surprised. No one expected the PS5 to be the most powerful console because Sony wasn’t screaming about it every 5 seconds like MS. They did, however, said “let the games do the talking”. And here we are.

Fun times.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

You say the Xbox GPU is "off the shelf" show me the identical PC GPU.

Man, in one paragraph you boast that MS waited for AMD to finish their full rDNA 2 design (same as on PC)... Then you jump to asking proof that MS took whatever AMD had.

Obviously it's not the exact same GPU as the configuration you find on PC, but the building blocks are the exact same.

 

[Agnostic2020]

You say they are the same things with different names, that's obviously not true. Sony has their own versions that doesn't make them the same. Both Microsoft and AMD said in the reveal that Xbox was the ONLY console to offer full hardware support for those RDNA2 features, if PS5 was the same as you claim then that joint statement would be false, I doubt AMD is lying.
We haven't seen a die shot of PS5 so we can't compare so we don't know how they differ but they obviously do as Microsoft said they waited until AMD had finished.
This makes sense for Microsoft as they are unifying their development tools and hardware support between Xbox and PC.

You say the Xbox GPU is "off the shelf" show me the identical PC GPU.

The whole full rdna2 is a marketing gimmick since the pc rdna2 gpu uses sfs and dx12 etc.. as api where ps5 has its own version and its using its own custom api and they r there if not better as seen by results. To add to that , xsx and xss don't have infinity cache so they r not even full rdna2 as ms suggested. U see when u fall victim of nonsense marketing words and expect everyone to play along it leads to disappointment and excuses.

 

[DForce]

You say they are the same things with different names, that's obviously not true. Sony has their own versions that doesn't make them the same. Both Microsoft and AMD said in the reveal that Xbox was the ONLY console to offer full hardware support for those RDNA2 features, if PS5 was the same as you claim then that joint statement would be false, I doubt AMD is lying.
We haven't seen a die shot of PS5 so we can't compare so we don't know how they differ but they obviously do as Microsoft said they waited until AMD had finished.
This makes sense for Microsoft as they are unifying their development tools and hardware support between Xbox and PC.

You say the Xbox GPU is "off the shelf" show me the identical PC GPU.

Because Sony doesn't need desktop\DX12 features. They have their own.


Microsoft says this stuff because people like you are gullible enough to believe in their PR bs.


Does Sony need DX12 RT, even though we have seen Ray Tracing on PS games?

 

[Agnostic2020]

That's Dirt 5 on PC that has VRS.



This is an example of a bad implementation of VRS.

Remains to be seen if RDNA2 is just another GPU in the power supply or not.

I really wish ps5 never uses that shit. The vrs looks jarring there and its better suited for vr games where u get immersed and don't pay too much attention to it .

 

[Riky]

Man, in one paragraph you boast that MS waited for AMD to finish their full rDNA 2 design (same as on PC)... Then you jump to asking proof that MS took whatever AMD had.

Obviously it's not the exact same GPU as the configuration you find on PC, but the building blocks are the exact same.

As they are on PS5 as that is RDNA2 based, doesn't make either "off the shelf".

 

[Riky]

The whole full rdna2 is a marketing gimmick since the pc rdna2 gpu uses sfs and dx12 etc.. as api where ps5 has its own version and its using its own custom api and they r there if not better as seen by results. To add to that , xsx and xss don't have infinity cache so they r not even full rdna2 as ms suggested. U see when u fall victim of nonsense marketing words and expect everyone to play along it leads to disappointment and excuses.

Ps5 doesn't have "infinity cache" AMD show clearly in their slides what that is 128mb of L3 Cache, that's a massive amount of die space and no console has it.

I didn't bring PS5 into this, I'm not saying that the PS5 customisations are better or worse, I can't because we don't know as we haven't seen a die shot of the APU and neither have you. But you're pointing to "results" when we haven't seen a game on Xbox actually use these features yet. So your point is irrelevant.

 

[Riky]

Because Sony doesn't need desktop\DX12 features. They have their own.


Microsoft says this stuff because people like you are gullible enough to believe in their PR bs.


Does Sony need DX12 RT, even though we have seen Ray Tracing on PS games?

AMD were on the statement, it specifically says these two words " hardware support", DX12 isn't hardware.

 

[Topher]

Ps5 doesn't have "infinity cache" AMD show clearly in their slides what that is 128mb of L3 Cache, that's a massive amount of die space and no console has it.

I didn't bring PS5 into this, I'm not saying that the PS5 customisations are better or worse, I can't because we don't know as we haven't seen a die shot of the APU and neither have you. But you're pointing to "results" when we haven't seen a game on Xbox actually use these features yet. So your point is irrelevant.

You are coming to concrete conclusions that the games are not using "these features" based on what again?

 

[Riky]

You are coming to concrete conclusions that the games are not using "these features" based on what again?

That VRS is very obvious on still screens, like I've already said. Digital Foundry would pick that up straight away.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I said that.

I've seen no actual evidence that the Xbox version uses it, it hasn't shown in comparisons and VRS would be obvious in still screens. Codemasters said there was more to come when asked about a patch for the settings bug so maybe it will be added later.

You say that Halo shot is "bad implementation" look at the rest of the shot instead of cherry picking a small section, the grunts are side on and facing the player, so the player wouldn't see that viewpoint.

Well the only way that you can tell that a game uses VRS is by spotting a downgrade in the textures. That's how Digital Foundry is able to detect if a game uses it or not. VRS will lead to a degradation of image quality if it isn't implemented correctly. It's not s magical switch that you flip to gain performance developers have to use it correctly.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Ps5 doesn't have "infinity cache" AMD show clearly in their slides what that is 128mb of L3 Cache, that's a massive amount of die space and no console has it.

I didn't bring PS5 into this, I'm not saying that the PS5 customisations are better or worse, I can't because we don't know as we haven't seen a die shot of the APU and neither have you. But you're pointing to "results" when we haven't seen a game on Xbox actually use these features yet. So your point is irrelevant.

I never said ps5 has it ? I said full rdna2 have infinity cache where as xsx and xss don't and that means they r not full rdna2 to begin with.

Ps5 potentially has unified l3 cache but that's not infinity cache .

As for vrs as per technical lead its in dirt 5 .

BTW FYI first batch of final ps5 apu was produced after first batch of xsx apu. So the whole not being ready is just an excuse and damage controlling to be honest with u.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Well the only way that you can tell that a game uses VRS is by spotting a downgrade in the textures. That's how Digital Foundry is able to detect if a game uses it or not. VRS will lead to a degradation of image quality if it isn't implemented correctly. It's not s magical switch that you flip to gain performance developers have to use it correctly.

I feel he doesn't know what vrs is to be honest. Never seen someone cap this hard for making the image uglier which is what vrs does .

 

[Riky]

Well the only way that you can tell that a game uses VRS is by spotting a downgrade in the textures. That's how Digital Foundry is able to detect if a game uses it or not. VRS will lead to a degradation of image quality if it isn't implemented correctly. It's not s magical switch that you flip to gain performance developers have to use it correctly.

"Implemented correctly" this means nothing. If you are using it then a still screen will show it, the point of it is to save performance in areas the player won't notice. A breakdown of a still screen will show it regardless.