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[tassletine]

U r mixing dev talent and art direction for power. Xbox was more powerful than ps2 hardware wise. No comparison

I don't believe you understood the point of my original post. Unique hardware produces unique products.

Microsoft, time and time again has hobbled developers to the point where the hardware doesn't matter, despite the brute force.
And in the context of new tech, straightforward graphical comparisons based on what we know are pretty meaningless. Hence the 'pleasently surprised' comment.
I completely agree that on paper, xbox is better, but I can pretty much guarantee that the best graphics you will see this gen will be on the PS5.

It was the same with the Switch. People bending over backwards to say it could never run X, wasn't capable, wasn't a portable etc.
Making something more standardised isn't the best way of getting the best out of people, especially a coder.

 

[tassletine]

SOTC ran like 20fps on PS2.
Xbox games such as Ninja Gaiden Black, Chronicles of Riddick and DOOM 3 looked better and played than anything on PS2

If you say so. I don't remember those open world games with huge detailed bosses very well.

 

[Tripolygon]

Like i said before vrs has multiple modes some that dont have any visual impact. Unless the dirt devs say they are using it, there is no official confirmation.

There are no multiple modes of VRS, there are 2 tiers of hardware support for VRS Microsoft calls tier 1 and tier 2. The difference between them is the level of control a developer has over the shading rate per draw or within a draw call and per primitive, tier 2 having more control. They all have visual impact but depending on how it is implemented the visual impact could be unnoticeable. You can even use VRS to increase the shading rate but that is mostly beneficial in VR games where the peripheral vision is more so less noticeable and impactful than a TV screen which you seat further away from.

 

[Hezekiah]

I'd say it was weirder during the 360 era. The 360 was a year older than the PS3 and outperformed it. There was no excuse for the PS3 to not stomp all over the 360. the XB1X out performed the PS4 Pro didn't it? PS5 was 2 DAYS newer and it at parity with XSX. I don't know why this is all that shocking. The new systems are both very similar. There was never going to be a massive gulf there only gulf here is how out of proportion the Sony fans here are taking a 2 or 3 frame rate lead and of course ignoring any time when the XSX outperforms the PS5. It's a no win situation for MS because in a minor loss, tie or minor win they majorly lose according to those here.

Well the first-party games on the PS3 did stomp on the first-party 360 games, it was just hard for third-parties to master.

The One X was £100 more expensive than the PS4 Pro so hardly surprising it was more powerful, and not relevant here.

The main reason Microsoft 'can't win' this gen is simply because they have shouted from the rooftops that they have the more powerful machine, and third-party games will unequivocally look best on Series X. That's on them this gen.

Even now you have idiots like Colt Eastwood claiming that the difference between Series X and PS5 will be 'staggering' once developers start using VRS and ML. And some gamers bought it.

 

[oldergamer]

There are no multiple modes of VRS, there are 2 tiers of hardware support for VRS Microsoft calls tier 1 and tier 2. The difference between them is the level of control a developer has over the shading rate per draw or within a draw call and per primitive, tier 2 having more control. They all have visual impact but depending on how it is implemented the visual impact could be unnoticeable. You can even use VRS to increase the shading rate but that is mostly beneficial in VR games where the peripheral vision is more so less noticeable and impactful than a TV screen which you seat further away from.

What I meant are the features supported within those tiers.

Variable Rate Shading

Engineering specs for DirectX features.

microsoft.github.io

Features for each tier are described in greater detail below the table.


Tier 1

• Shading rate can only be specified on a per-draw-basis; nothing more granular than that
• Shading rate applies uniformly to what is drawn independently of where it lies within the rendertarget
• Use of 1x2, programmable sample positions, or conservative rasterization may cause fall-back into fine shading

Tier 2

• Shading rate can be specified on a per-draw-basis, as in Tier 1. It can also be specified by a combination of per-draw-basis, and of:
  • Semantic from the per-provoking-vertex, and
  • a screenspace image
• Shading rates from the three sources are combined using a set of combiners
• Screen space image tile size is 16x16 or smaller
• Shading rate requested by the app is guaranteed to be delivered exactly (for precision of temporal and other reconstruction filters)
• SV_ShadingRate PS input is supported
• The per-provoking vertex rate, also referred to here as a per-primitive rate, is valid when one viewport is used and SV_ViewportIndex is not written to.
• The per-provoking vertex rate, also referred to as a per-primitive rate, can be used with more than one viewport if the SupportsPerVertexShadingRateWithMultipleViewports cap is marked true. Additionally, in that case, it can be used when SV_ViewportIndex is written to.

List of Caps

• AdditionalShadingRatesSupported
  • Boolean type
  • Indicates whether 2X4, 4X2, and 4X4 coarse pixel sizes are supported for single sampled rendering, and whether coarse pixel size 2X4 is supported for 2xMSAA.
• SupportsPerVertexShadingRateWithMultipleViewports
  • Boolean type
  • Indicates whether more than one viewport can be used with the per-vertex (also referred to as ‘per-primitive’) shading rate

 

[Tripolygon]

What I meant are the features supported within those tiers.
Snip

TLDR: More control.

Also hope the developer did answer your question.

 

[BootsLoader]

I was expecting to see.s gameplay demo of Hellblade 2 by now.

I'm starting to wonder if what they showed us was even real back then. Always a possibility that we will see something amazing from them at the Game Awards but they really should have had something prepared much earlier.

People just want to see what the XSX is capable of. Microsoft needs their DemonSouls moment on the system. Just a game that will floor everyone with the visuals.

I think that the video of Hellblade 2 was not real time on XBOX S X. It was an estimation of that. Maybe a powerful pc, considering that the game will be available on GamePass.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

10.28 TF RDNA2 is definitely better than 12TF RDNA1 branded as 2

 

[oldergamer]

TLDR: More control.

Also hope the developer did answer your question.

I had already seen that video. I'm actually less concerned about the dev confirming its in the game, then I am with people immediately thinking they can translate what they are seeing (blurry textures) directly to that single feature. As i said before, this isn't a feature that you turn on and it immediately makes everything blurry or ugly. That sentiment as i see is incorrect.

 

[Tripolygon]

Like i said before vrs has multiple modes some that dont have any visual impact. Unless the dirt devs say they are using it, there is no official confirmation.

I had already seen that video. I'm actually less concerned about the dev confirming its in the game, then I am with people immediately thinking they can translate what they are seeing (blurry textures) directly to that single feature. As i said before, this isn't a feature that you turn on and it immediately makes everything blurry or ugly. That sentiment as i see is incorrect.

?

VRS leads to less resolved detail where it is used because it is shading at a lower resolution, that is how you get performance gains by focusing less rendering time in areas of less importance. It is a visual tradeoff for performance and can be instantly noticeable when compared to same game without it. It is all about picking and choosing where you think it won't result in a massive drop in visual quality. For instance you can shade things behind a bokeh DOF at significantly lower resolution because you can't see it anyway likewise in areas of high motion like a racing game you can shade a lot of peripheral scenery at a lower resolution because you are driving past them at high speeds and won't notice the loss of detail.

Not the best quality video but it demonstrates it very well. You can see the visuals drop a little bit then clear up when the camera stops moving.


I'm not saying the blurry Dirt 5 texture is an example of VRS, as that looks like a whole host of different things, lower texture resolution, lower AF and lower geometry detail all adding together to create an overall lower quality presentation.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Well the first-party games on the PS3 did stomp on the first-party 360 games, it was just hard for third-parties to master.

I always wondered how Uncharted 2, God of War 3 and TLoU would have run on the 360, I'm fairly certain they would have been better or equal on it.