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[Deleted member 471617]

You know you could have just done the honourable thing and admit you were wrong. We have all been there.

Wrong....hell no. I will quadruple down on what I said before I admit im wrong especially barely a month into the generation. If PS5 outperforms XSX (even if it's by one game) when the generation ends in 7 years, then I will admit that I was wrong but barely a month in, nah...way too early/soon to admit I was wrong when I still have 7 years to go. LMAO.

 

[azertydu91]

PS5 can display text lightning fast, amazing !

Yeah I've been playing this game ... Notepad it's amazing,you let your hands write what's on your mind.

The story is ... disturbing, way too much incest, and body dismemberment that are vividly detailed but other than that good game.

 

[Dave_at_Home]

Sony produced what they have been aiming to do for a long time.

Sony got burnt big time by the PS3, and learnt valuable lessons from Microsoft with how well designed a system the 360 was, and it was so far better designed than the PS3, it wasn't funny.
Better Ram set up, better GPU, far easier to program CPU, all while being cheaper and released a year earlier.

When Cerny took over the reigns he made the PS4 to be way more efficient and better designed than the PS3, and he has taken it even further with the PS5.
Sticking with a 36CU GPU, but clocked as high as they could safely get it to, basic API, and advanced tools and development environments that flow straight on from the PS4 ones.
For what Sony wanted, they certainly nailed it.
MS went a different direction, totally new API extensions such as Mesh Shaders, VRS, SFS, machine learning as well as XVA, larger GPU, not as straight forward Ram set up amongst others. They also brought the PC development tools along with the Xbox ones, meaning a more wide spead set of tools, while Sony is purely focused on one console.
I am not shocked that Sony came out of the blocks as quick as they did. I think it is a result of what their aims were.
Will be interesting to watch how it progresses. I personally think that the XSX will have longer legs and push past the PS5 as time goes on and devs get used to these new API features.
For what we thought was going to be a pretty boring generation with two consoles being very similar, they are far more different than we thought.
Fun times ahead.

TBH, I also thought the difference would be at least 15-20% with the potential to be upto 40% if all that FUD about the PS5 clocks, lack of VRS and it heating up was true. I even fell for the Dusk Golem nonsense about the PS5 running at half the resolution of the xsx version.

But 15-20% was pretty much a given and yet we are not even seeing that anymore. It was all nonsense and it seems Andrew Reiner, Colin Moriarity, Kleegamefan on era and Jason Schrier were all right about devs telling them the ps5 was more powerful.

Look at me! I'm gonna quote myself!

Pretty much this. Series X is a great console with a more traditional design. PS5 is custom out the wazoo and is too a great console. Series X owns most of the paper spec showdown and Sony decided to keep their mouth shut and let the games do the talking. Well, the games are talking and people want answers.

• Coherency engines informs the GPU of the over-written address ranges and custom scrubbers in several dozens of GPU caches, to pin-point eviction in just those address ranges. Basically a word-for-word from Cerny. Fine-grain eviction of data allows for more data to be processed with reduced GPU overhead as a result. Not to mention saving on memory bandwidth. Efficiency increased.

Now there are still rumors out there of PS5 having some form of infinity cache. I guess we still need the die shot. I don't know if PS5's GPU speed + coherency engine + cache scrubbers = keeps up with Series X or better. It's entirely possible some for of infinity cache may exist. PS5 is clearly designed to leverage is cache. This is something else that saves on memory bandwidth. After all, we haven't read anything from developers saying PS5 is bandwidth starved. Plus the other rumored CPU L3 cache unification and how that plays into performance. Someone sacrifice a PS5 for the die shot already!

Time will tell if PS5 has its own infinity cache and unified L3 cache. I think it's possible and all those things combined may explain how it keeps up, or even beats, Series X. What's definitely for sure, that SSD and I/O will pay dividends for Sony first-party.



Think about what Tim says here for a second. They already had design goals in mind with the highest end PC and all the way down to mobile. Then PS5 showed up to their doorstep and had to do a double-take. PS5 is leading the charge on this and that Unreal demo is a taste to come. Whatever first-party devs are working on will certainly blow people away come trailer time next year.

 

[oldergamer]

Isn't it embarrassing if Sony has the better tools? Microsoft being a software company and all.

Let's use some reasoning here. Sony's architecture on PS5 is that different from PS4. It require less changes and less need to overhaul tools.

Xbox S/X has a very different architecture from previous Xbox one hardware. With a different architecture, they need more tool changes.

 

[azertydu91]

Wrong....hell no. I will quadruple down on what I said before I admit im wrong especially barely a month into the generation. If PS5 outperforms XSX (even if it's by one game) when the generation ends in 7 years, then I will admit that I was wrong but barely a month in, nah...way too early/soon to admit I was wrong when I still have 7 years to go. LMAO.

So we just need to wait 7 years? Is that your motto?That's representative.... I guess?

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Let's use some reasoning here. Sony's architecture on PS5 is that different from PS4. It require less changes and less need to overhaul tools.

Xbox S/X has a very different architecture from previous Xbox one hardware. With a different architecture, they need more tool changes.

Doesn't make sense and stands against reason.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

So we just need to wait 7 years? Is that your motto?That's representative.... I guess?

Wait 7 years for what? To admit that I was wrong? If so, yes. Why would anyone admit anything barely a month into the generation?

 

[oldergamer]

Look at me! I'm gonna quote myself!


Time will tell if PS5 has its own infinity cache and unified L3 cache. I think it's possible and all those things combined may explain how it keeps up, or even beats, Series X. What's definitely for sure, that SSD and I/O will pay dividends for Sony first-party.



Think about what Tim says here for a second. They already had design goals in mind with the highest end PC and all the way down to mobile. Then PS5 showed up to their doorstep and had to do a double-take. PS5 is leading the charge on this and that Unreal demo is a taste to come. Whatever first-party devs are working on will certainly blow people away come trailer time next year.

He didn't say that though. PS5 WAS the first hardware anyone could get that had rapid compression/decompression included as part of its architecture connected to high bandwidth SSD. PC still lacks this and is probably why he is saying CPU is the bottleneck. it is on PC, and will be until PC hardware comes with both.

 

[azertydu91]

Doesn't make sense and stands against reason.

So the new similar architectures between both console are more different on Xbox because "Dude trust me"?
And the more customed parts are less diferent than a new iteration of AMD because he said so ?

 

[Dave_at_Home]

He didn't say that though. PS5 WAS the first hardware anyone could get that had rapid compression/decompression included as part of its architecture connected to high bandwidth SSD. PC still lacks this and is probably why he is saying CPU is the bottleneck. it is on PC, and will be until PC hardware comes with both.

This is true. It's gonna take a while for PC to catch up. Probably just brute force past this at some point. I know Nvidia is working on similar stuff. It will be figured out eventually, but in the meantime it's a shame how so many around here don't see potential of what Sony has brought to the table.

 

[DarkMage619]

It is weirder this time around given how similar the two machines are. First time secret sauce makes sense.

I'd say it was weirder during the 360 era. The 360 was a year older than the PS3 and outperformed it. There was no excuse for the PS3 to not stomp all over the 360. the XB1X out performed the PS4 Pro didn't it? PS5 was 2 DAYS newer and it at parity with XSX. I don't know why this is all that shocking. The new systems are both very similar. There was never going to be a massive gulf there only gulf here is how out of proportion the Sony fans here are taking a 2 or 3 frame rate lead and of course ignoring any time when the XSX outperforms the PS5. It's a no win situation for MS because in a minor loss, tie or minor win they majorly lose according to those here.

 

[azertydu91]

Wait 7 years for what? To admit that I was wrong? If so, yes. Why would anyone admit anything barely a month into the generation?

Well you basically said if at the end of the gen 1 game perform better on ps5 you'll be wrong, the average gen nowadays is about 7 years...
Do I need to explain what you said to be able to explain what I replied or now you get why I said 7years?
Great idea "I can't be wrong until the gen is done and basicaly everybody forgets my fanboyish comments"
Bargainning phase ? You are asically saying let's wait Xmore years to be sure maybe it'll get better and it may, just as well as it may not.
But you were the one mentionning november and november has come and gone and you were proven wrong.

 

[Dave_at_Home]

Let's use some reasoning here. Sony's architecture on PS5 is that different from PS4. It require less changes and less need to overhaul tools.

Xbox S/X has a very different architecture from previous Xbox one hardware. With a different architecture, they need more tool changes.

I don't deny things can be tweaked, but I feel like Series X is performing exactly as expected. People don't want to investigate why PS5 is doing so well in comparison. They just look at Series X and figure something is wrong. Series X is more traditional in its design due to its Xcloud roots. Nothing wrong with that. Sony went more custom and clearly has greater data throughput. More efficient leading to same performance results. You can't go wrong with either one.

 

[Blond]

So we just need to wait 7 years? Is that your motto?That's representative.... I guess?

No, it's being realistic. All things considered it's not remotely fair to compare the two, in fact in a couple games the SX has an edge but people are so worried about the wins the PS5 is taking they don't see that in a few years the differences will become obvious. The SSD got exposed as not really being all that different and Sony could've used a cheaper OTS for the same results and pumped up the CPU/GPU.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Well you basically said if at the end of the gen 1 game perform better on ps5 you'll be wrong, the average gen nowadays is about 7 years...
Do I need to explain what you said to be able to explain what I replied or now you get why I said 7years?
Great idea "I can't be wrong until the gen is done and basicaly everybody forgets my fanboyish comments"
Bargainning phase ? You are asically saying let's wait Xmore years to be sure maybe it'll get better and it may, just as well as it may not.
But you were the one mentionning november and november has come and gone and you were proven wrong.

Okay. Fair enough. You're right. I will admit that I was wrong for November.

 

[azertydu91]

No, it's being realistic. All things considered it's not remotely fair to compare the two, in fact in a couple games the SX has an edge but people are so worried about the wins the PS5 is taking they don't see that in a few years the differences will become obvious. The SSD got exposed as not really being all that different and Sony could've used a cheaper OTS for the same results and pumped up the CPU/GPU.

Great so the "advantages" of the SX will show but not the ps5's?You are doing the axact same thing you accuse the others to do based on what again?
Because Unreal showed us the advantage where have the SX shown its advantage?

 

[azertydu91]

Okay. Fair enough. You're right. I will admit that I was wrong for November.

Thank you that's a great first step now for the rest of the gen time will tell, maybe the SX will progres way more than the ps5, maybe not but barely anybody here has enough knowledge to predict this.

 

[Captain Toad]

Isn't it embarrassing if Sony has the better tools? Microsoft being a software company and all.

Looking at the games over the last twenty years, especially the last 10 or so, it isn't just "tools" that PlayStation is winning when it comes to software.

 

[Blond]

Great so the "advantages" of the SX will show but not the ps5's?You are doing the axact same thing you accuse the others to do based on what again?
Because Unreal showed us the advantage where have the SX shown its advantage?

In the long term once people realize we're watching the equivalent of a PS4/X1 games meant to run on 1-2tf run on 10-12tf and when native generation games come that take advantage of everything the differences will become more apparent than they are already.

Once you get games that require the full use of the hardware running on the new unreal you WILL be seeing a performance and graphical difference. Don't count your chickens before they hatch, I say this as someone with a PS5 that I fully expect by year 2 when the games start coming and last-gen is in the dust the gap will be obvious, just saying.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Thank you that's a great first step now for the rest of the gen time will tell, maybe the SX will progres way more than the ps5, maybe not but barely anybody here has enough knowledge to predict this.

You're welcome.

We'll see what happens. Xbox Series X is my primary gaming console for this generation so regardless of how it all plays out, this won't change. PlayStation 5 will be for full console exclusives from Sony's internal studios and third party publishers.

Either way, it will be an amazing generation and im happy that we're finally getting 60FPS games or options for it which is what I wanted the most. Unless it has Ray Tracing (and it's implemented correctly), I will always go with the performance mode. Add in the ultra fast loading times and I will be in gaming heaven.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Let's use some reasoning here. Sony's architecture on PS5 is that different from PS4. It require less changes and less need to overhaul tools.

Xbox S/X has a very different architecture from previous Xbox one hardware. With a different architecture, they need more tool changes.

This is some new level of bullshit. Aside from the memory setup on X1, what else are you talking about? And why does the X1X not exist in this theory of yours?

 

[azertydu91]

In the long term once people realize we're watching the equivalent of a PS4/X1 games meant to run on 1-2tf run on 10-12tf and when native generation games come that take advantage of everything the differences will become more apparent than they are already.

Once you get games that require the full use of the hardware running on the new unreal you WILL be seeing a performance and graphical difference. Don't count your chickens before they hatch, I say this as someone with a PS5 that I fully expect by year 2 when the games start coming and last-gen is in the dust the gap will be obvious, just saying.

So a console struggling with 1-2 Tf games will do better as games will be more resources heavy?Please explain the logic here in great details?
Will it do better because you have knowledge about those kits and developping games or because you want it to become better than the opposition?
Because as of now beside telling it will get better you brought nothing.

 

[azertydu91]

You're welcome.

We'll see what happens. Xbox Series X is my primary gaming console for this generation so regardless of how it all plays out, this won't change. PlayStation 5 will be for full console exclusives from Sony's internal studios and third party publishers.

Either way, it will be an amazing generation and im happy that we're finally getting 60FPS games or options for it which is what I wanted the most. Unless it has Ray Tracing (and it's implemented correctly), I will always go with the performance mode. Add in the ultra fast loading times and I will be in gaming heaven.

Yep I play primarily on PC and ps5 now, and it's great to finally see better framerates on these consoles.I even wants MS to thrive because then they may put out good games which I will play too, so let's hope it will go well for everybody in the industry.

 

[Klayzer]

Great so the "advantages" of the SX will show but not the ps5's?You are doing the axact same thing you accuse the others to do based on what again?
Because Unreal showed us the advantage where have the SX shown its advantage?

I just don't get it. So the Series X is going to improve with time, but the tools and time with the PS5 is maxed out?

Do these people not understand the same improvements will be also happening on the 5 also.

Are people actually doubling down on this tools stuff? Curious, is this real logic, or is it more fanboy schtick.

 

[Topher]

non sense and not true ...one devkits was out months and months before the other ..as been said multiple times from devs and ms too

When did MS say this again? They said they were late manufacturing XSX because they waited for RDNA 2, but where are these multiple references from "devs and MS"? "Months and months"? Really? DF said that some devs thought the tools were "immature" but the Dirt 5 dev disagreed and said that comes down to experience. So that the entirety of what I've seen as far as that being mentioned from reputable sources. But if there are multiple references then you should be able to quote them.

Let's use some reasoning here. Sony's architecture on PS5 is that different from PS4. It require less changes and less need to overhaul tools.

Xbox S/X has a very different architecture from previous Xbox one hardware. With a different architecture, they need more tool changes.

How so? I believe both PS4 Pro and X1X were custom GCN architecture last gen. This gen they are both custom RDNA 2. So it would have to be the "custom" aspects that differentiate PS5 from XSX and much of the feature sets are in both but with different implementations. What is so drastically different about XSX?

 

[azertydu91]

I just don't get it. So the Series X is going to improve with time, but the tools and time with the PS5 is maxed out?

Do these people not understand the same improvements will be also happening on the 5 also.

Are people actually doubling down on this tools stuff? Curious, is this real logic, or is it more fanboy schtick.

As I said a bit after the post you quoted "Will it get better because you have knowledge that it will or because you want that it will?"

 

[Klayzer]

As I said a bit after the post you quoted "Will it get better because you have knowledge that it will or because you want that it will?"

Sounds more like "hopefully" and "wishing" than actual critical analysis. Where's this rumored "gap" going to come from when the tools arrive?

 

[Schnozberry]

When did MS say this again? They said they were late manufacturing XSX because they waited for RDNA 2, but where are these multiple references from "devs and MS"? "Months and months"? Really? DF said that some devs thought the tools were "immature" but the Dirt 5 dev disagreed and said that comes down to experience. So that the entirety of what I've seen as far as that being mentioned from reputable sources. But if there are multiple references then you should be able to quote them.

https://www.thurrott.com/games/237476/the-latest-on-xbox-game-core

Xbox Game Core was delayed because Direct X 12 Ultimate wasn't finalized until well into 2020. As of July, Thurrott reported that it wouldn't be completely fleshed out in time for the release of the Xbox Series consoles. How much of an impact that is having on game performance remains to be seen.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Yep I play primarily on PC and ps5 now, and it's great to finally see better framerates on these consoles.I even wants MS to thrive because then they may put out good games which I will play too, so let's hope it will go well for everybody in the industry.

Agreed. I have a bunch of exclusives from Microsoft and Sony and a ton of third party games that im looking forward to playing.

 

[AgentP]

https://www.thurrott.com/games/237476/the-latest-on-xbox-game-core

Xbox Game Core was delayed because Direct X 12 Ultimate wasn't finalized until well into 2020. As of July, Thurrott reported that it wouldn't be completely fleshed out in time for the release of the Xbox Series consoles. How much of an impact that is having on game performance remains to be seen.

Says a MS fanboy blogger with no development background?

 

[Dave_at_Home]

In the long term once people realize we're watching the equivalent of a PS4/X1 games meant to run on 1-2tf run on 10-12tf and when native generation games come that take advantage of everything the differences will become more apparent than they are already.

Once you get games that require the full use of the hardware running on the new unreal you WILL be seeing a performance and graphical difference. Don't count your chickens before they hatch, I say this as someone with a PS5 that I fully expect by year 2 when the games start coming and last-gen is in the dust the gap will be obvious, just saying.

PS5's fully programable geometry engine says hi.

 

[Topher]

https://www.thurrott.com/games/237476/the-latest-on-xbox-game-core

Xbox Game Core was delayed because Direct X 12 Ultimate wasn't finalized until well into 2020. As of July, Thurrott reported that it wouldn't be completely fleshed out in time for the release of the Xbox Series consoles. How much of an impact that is having on game performance remains to be seen.

Interesting, thanks for the link, but I'm not seeing where MS said their dev kits were "months and months" behind Sony's as was claimed.

 

[Schnozberry]

Interesting, thanks for the link, but I'm not seeing where MS said their dev kits were "months and months" behind Sony's as was claimed.

I honestly don't know when Sony had final kits in the hands of developers for optimizations.

It seems like Microsoft didn't have things ready in time for launch. That's the only conclusion I can draw.

 

[Schnozberry]

Says a MS fanboy blogger with no development background?

All he reported was that Microsoft published a new version of Game Core in July, but probably wouldn't have it completely finished in time for the Xbox Launch. I don't know what you find so controversial about it.

 

[Valued Gamer]

I don't think you know what an API is since you followed it up with a list of unrelated buzz words. Maybe stick to non-technical discussions?

Don't act smart, it doesn't suit you.
Mods might need to give you a new header, maybe "jumps into tech talk and looks stupid"

"DirectX 12 Ultimate is the newest version of the API and new gold standard for the next-generation of games. DirectX 12 Ultimate takes games to a whole new level of realism with support for ray tracing, mesh shaders, variable rate shading, and sampler feedback"

NVIDIA GeForce: DX12 Ultimate

The newest version of DirectX and new gold standard for the next-generation of games.

www.nvidia.com

 

[MonarchJT]

Both companies always send early devkits to major publishers in order to get feedback, we had insiders talking about these consoles since early 2019, if you think otherwise then you're just plain ingenuous. Also even if what you said were true, that still doesn't explain the performance differences.

there wasn't any rdna2 chip ...those was just box pc with target performance. at least for the series x

 

[Topher]

I honestly don't know when Sony had final kits in the hands of developers for optimizations.

It seems like Microsoft didn't have things ready in time for launch. That's the only conclusion I can draw.

Yeah, I agree. And we only have information from one side of this. Sony is very tight-lipped on all this stuff as they are not selling to a broad spectrum of developers like Microsoft is. Everything I've ever seen mentioned on Sony's site is hidden and available to registered developers only. And even then, those developers have to provide proof of being a corporate entity to get in the front door. I imagine there is a stack of NDAs before anyone gets to step in side.

 

[Valued Gamer]

You make it sound like MS are the only ones who've thought of forward planning. Just because MS made a list of hardware features for DX12U doesn't mean Sony doesn't have some great features of their own. Sony worked with devs like Epic Games for the feature set of the PS5. I think it will be the PS5 that will show more when devs really start using the GE features, advanced IO and super fast SSD.

We can only go on what Sony has actually said.
You mention Geometry Engine. Sony has said that it uses Primitive Shaders, and the reality is primitive shaders are older tech and has been replaced by AMD in RDNA 2 with Mesh Shaders, which the XSX also uses.
We know what VRS is, we know what effect it has on performance.
We know what Machine Learning is, we know MS has hardware additions to allow 8 and 4 bit INT, and we know MS has an API extension for it (Direct ML), and we know Sony doesn't have it as clarified by one of their engineers on Twitter.
We know what Mesh Shaders are and what performance.
MS and Sony both went around to all the top devs and got their input into the next gen consoles. There is no evidence that there is some secret sauce in the PS5 that Epic and Sony developed together, none at all.

I'm only going on what we do know. Maybe Sony comes out and tells us more and we see some secret sauce that changes things, or we get an xray of the SOC and we see some additions, but until then all I can go on is what we know.
Things may well change, and I actually look forward to seeing how it pans out.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Let's use some reasoning here. Sony's architecture on PS5 is that different from PS4. It require less changes and less need to overhaul tools.

Xbox S/X has a very different architecture from previous Xbox one hardware. With a different architecture, they need more tool changes.

Bollox.

XSX/S are both x86-64 CPUs and RDNA2 GPUs but 100% compatible with the GCN GPU ISA.

XSX/S are having issues with the SDK because MS decided to redesign and overhaul the SDK to unify development across XSX/S, XB1 and Windows. It's got nothing to do with the difference in hardware microarchitecture between XB1 and XSX/S.

Please don't spread misinformation.

 

[jigglet]

So we just need to wait 7 years? Is that your motto?That's representative.... I guess?

It worked for ps3 fans didn’t it. When Xbox had better graphics until last of us and uncharted 2 came out deep into that gen.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

How do you call something "FUD" and then say "we shall see"? I mean, that is like saying "I don't know if it is FUD, but I'm going to call it FUD anyway".

"we shall see" is the definition of trying to strike Fear Uncertainty and Doubt in the other person's argument without giving an actual argument.

Wrong....hell no. I will quadruple down on what I said before I admit im wrong especially barely a month into the generation. If PS5 outperforms XSX (even if it's by one game) when the generation ends in 7 years, then I will admit that I was wrong but barely a month in, nah...way too early/soon to admit I was wrong when I still have 7 years to go. LMAO.

I assume it was expected that one machine would perform below expectations? Would you give the same benefit of the doubt to Sony if for whatever reason the PS5 performed at half the resolution/framerate compared to the series X?

I am fairly sure that no... You'd probably even say that you called it and use the "tools" argument in MS's favor still (Wait until MS releases DX12 Ultimate, the series x will run 8k raytraced games at 120fps!)

The architectures aren't that different, one from the other and from the previous generation of their respective architecture, the new tools are mostly based on the existing tools (in both cases). I doubt that the transition is barely more of a bigger hurdle than transitioning to the oneX or PRO from the developer's point of view... 🛠 is the most pathetic excuses in this situation, especially coming from a group or people who clamored MS's advantage as a giant software company with unlimited resources to pour at the problem. What happened?

 

[Armorian]

PS5 can display text lightning fast, amazing !

8K 120FPS UI incoming

 

[jroc74]

Let's use some reasoning here. Sony's architecture on PS5 is that different from PS4. It require less changes and less need to overhaul tools.

Xbox S/X has a very different architecture from previous Xbox one hardware. With a different architecture, they need more tool changes.

This is some take....wow

The misinformation doesn't end, huh.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

I assume it was expected that one machine would perform below expectations? Would you give the same benefit of the doubt to Sony if for whatever reason the PS5 performed at half the resolution/framerate compared to the series X?

If the roles were reversed and Sony were behind with their GDK and it was publicly documented like Microsoft, I would say the same thing because it would be true. No one should expect developers to do the same thing on both consoles if one console's GDK is 6+ months behind. And I would say the same thing as I did for Microsoft that if they're that behind and still equal or slightly worse, then that's a win in my eyes for Sony because just like with how it actually is for Microsoft, if they're equal or slightly behind using a multi-year old, outdated and obsolete XDK, I would say that's pretty damn good that it's that close despite not having access to the current GDK.

 

[pixelation]

JAP... that poor sap.

 

[TheTechnician]

PS5 can display text lightning fast, amazing !

weak

 

[Valued Gamer]

there wasn't any rdna2 chip ...those was just box pc with target performance. at least for the series x

Yep. That's where the talk of the PS5 having 13tflops came from. Their inital dev kits were GCN.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

If the roles were reversed and Sony were behind with their GDK and it was publicly documented like Microsoft, I would say the same thing because it would be true. No one should expect developers to do the same thing on both consoles if one console's GDK is 6+ months behind. And I would say the same thing as I did for Microsoft that if they're that behind and still equal or slightly worse, then that's a win in my eyes for Sony because just like with how it actually is for Microsoft, if they're equal or slightly behind using a multi-year old, outdated and obsolete XDK, I would say that's pretty damn good that it's that close despite not having access to the current GDK.

I don't think Sony over delivered, it's MS that did not deliver anything close to the hype they themselves built for their machine.

So as a consumer you feel MS has delivered?

All they offer is promises... this is all they have done for 10+ years now. excuses, one year after the other.

I mean, sure they could pull off some nifty tricks, but I would not expect them to pull ahead. I just don't think this is realistic, just like when they promised DX 12 and the cloud would have them at least catch up to the PS4 with the one. Given what their hardware is I would not expect too much anyway, this is all well known technology, there is not much maturity to gain there.

Their best hope is for some of their studios to start delivering games that are actually compelling and they get attention this way, I'd say at best this will make them as appealing as Sony (which would be great, Sony is my favorite publisher)... but this may still be 2 or 3 years down the road, by this time it may be too little too late.

 

[Schnozberry]

If the roles were reversed and Sony were behind with their GDK and it was publicly documented like Microsoft, I would say the same thing because it would be true. No one should expect developers to do the same thing on both consoles if one console's GDK is 6+ months behind. And I would say the same thing as I did for Microsoft that if they're that behind and still equal or slightly worse, then that's a win in my eyes for Sony because just like with how it actually is for Microsoft, if they're equal or slightly behind using a multi-year old, outdated and obsolete XDK, I would say that's pretty damn good that it's that close despite not having access to the current GDK.

The same thing happened with the Switch at launch. Nintendo was coming in hot, way behind on development tools, short on dev kits entirely, and didn't even nail down the Switch's final clock speed until months before launch. Nintendo righted the ship though, and I hope Microsoft can do the same. Healthy competition is good for the industry.

If anything, people should be praising Sony for being on the ball, even if you're an Xbox fan. It's good for consumers that Sony is getting competent tools in the hands of development teams. Microsoft failing to deliver an SDK that makes it easy to get peak performance from the hardware isn't an excuse, it's an indictment. They overpromised and under delivered. I'm sure the pandemic will be cited as the reason for reduced productivity, but they still brought a product to market without much software and a lagging development environment.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

So we just need to wait 7 years? Is that your motto?That's representative.... I guess?

Hey, what is seven more years, this is what girls tell him when he hit on them: "I'll call you in seven years", and he leaves them happy to know they will call back in time.

If anything, people should be praising Sony for being on the ball, even if you're an Xbox fan. It's good for consumers that Sony is getting competent tools in the hands of development teams. Microsoft failing to deliver an SDK that makes it easy to get peak performance from the hardware isn't an excuse, it's an indictment. They overpromised and under delivered. I'm sure the pandemic will be cited as the reason for reduced productivity, but they still brought a product to market without much software and a lagging development environment.

The problem is that I don't buy that MS is far behind in the tools, apparently their new SDK is mostly a revamp of the existing one (which is logic) with an extra layer to help unite all their platform's code.