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[mortal]

It was done this way because it was fast and cheap.

I doubt remaking a PS3-era game from the ground up was neither fast nor cheap.

I was also a bit disappointed after seeing the leaked trailer because I had it in my mind this was meant to be their PS5 showpiece debut.
However, this remake was supposedly started in early 2019, overlapping TLOU2's development. Initially, started by a smaller team within Sony called Visual Arts Service Group, after which Naughty Dog took over the development.
So it's only reasonable for the remake to look similar to TLOU2 given the timing, the development overlap, and being on the same engine.

At the very least there will now be visual and mechanical cohesion between Part 1 & Part 2.

 

[Heisenberg007]

With the remaster being on PS4, this wouldnt really make sense.

As much as some ppl are complaining about this remake, imagine if it was on PS4....

Gotta find something to complain about after all, I guess

 

[MidGenRefresh]

I doubt remaking a PS3-era game from the ground up was neither fast nor cheap.

I was also a bit disappointed after seeing the leaked trailer because I had it in my mind this was meant to be their PS5 showpiece debut.
However, this remake was supposedly started in early 2019, overlapping TLOU2's development. Initially, started by a smaller team within Sony called Visual Arts Service Group, after which Naughty Dog took over the development.
So it's only reasonable for the remake to look similar to TLOU2 given the timing, the development overlap, and being on the same engine.

At the very least there will now be visual and mechanical cohesion between Part 1 & Part 2.

Faster and cheaper than creating something from the ground up for PS5, that's for sure. Good business decision, don't get me wrong.

There's absolutely 0 reason why this shouldn't be on PS4. It's basically a native PS5 version of TLOU2 that we never got.

We got Uncharted 4 ~2.5 years into PS4 lifecycle (I think). I wonder how many years we will have to wait for a proper showcase of PS5 from ND.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Not concerned, just disappointed. They can give whatever bullshit explanation they want. It was done this way because it was fast and cheap.

You know I would prefer them to spend a little bit on this then a full budget for a AAA game. Like you said their true next gen games should much better.

 

[SlimySnake]

I am not exactly sure why ND is sticking with 1440p 60 fps here. They did that with Uncharted remasters and also kept TLOU2's BC patch at 1440p.

If the 4.2 tflops PS4 Pro can do 1440p 30 fps the the PS5 with its 10.2 RDNA 2.0 Tflops and a MASSIVE leap in CPU should be able to do way more than 1440p 60 fps. With IPC gains over Polaris, we are looking at almost 13 tflops or 3x more GPU power than the PS4 Pro. Maybe not enough for 1800p 60 fps, but surely they are leaving a lot of performance on the table by sticking with 1440p. Kojima was able to take a checkerboard 4k 30 fps PS4 Pro game to full native 4k 60 fps doubling both the pixels and the framerate, and while it did drop during cutscenes and boss fights, the open world was a locked 60 fps even at native 4k. The PS5 is extremely powerful and should be getting utilized better.

Besides, i wouldve expected them to have optimized the PS4 engine by now. Especially since they are supposedly making this for PS5 only. It's been 2 years and still no engine improvements to eek out more performance? It's not like the character models and assets are an upgrade over TLOU2. They look virtually identical according to footage in this video so where is this extra PS5 power going?

 

[DenchDeckard]

Lets be honest, the game looks genuinely amazing...just like the last of us 2...and I will play it again at some point but it is clearly some strange business decision that this is not on PS4. It looks identical and in some ways worse than the PS4 pro version of Last of Us 2.

If this remake is 1440p 60 FPS on PS5 its pretty obvious that there should and could be a 1440p 30 FPS ps4 pro version.

Game is genuinely incredible so it's fine, but its not like this is pushing the PS5 at all.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

You know I would prefer them to spend a little bit on this then a full budget for a AAA game. Like you said their true next gen games should much better.

Me too. And please be a new IP in a new genre.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Faster and cheaper than creating something from the ground up for PS5, that's for sure. Good business decision, don't get me wrong.

• Completely rebuilt from the ground up the game has been faithfully enhanced with more realistic lighting and atmosphere, more intricate environments and creative reimaginings of familiar spaces.

 

[mortal]

Faster and cheaper than creating something from the ground up for PS5, that's for sure. Good business decision, don't get me wrong.

There's absolutely 0 reason why this shouldn't be on PS4. It's basically a native PS5 version of TLOU2 that we never got.

We got Uncharted 4 ~2.5 years into PS4 lifecycle (I think). I wonder how many years we will have to wait for a proper showcase of PS5 from ND.

I understand where you're coming from, but it's important to be mindful of the greater context and conditions under which the remake was developed.

I would agree with you that this looks like it could very well be run on PS4 as well, and I believe the initial goal was for the remake to launch alongside TLOU2 at the time.
I'd imagine whatever development hurdles that small team was experiencing made it challenging to meet that timeline, hence Naughty Dog subsequently taking over the project.
On top of that, making TLOU remake exclusive to the current gen would plausibly drive more hardware sales for PS5, given the popularity of Part 1.

We got Uncharted 4 ~2.5 years into PS4 lifecycle (I think). I wonder how many years we will have to wait for a proper showcase of PS5 from ND.

Not too long, I'd imagine. The Factions game will debut next year and could very well launch in 2023. Although their next single-player title is likely farther off.

 

[SlimySnake]

Lets be honest, the game looks genuinely amazing...just like the last of us 2...and I will play it again at some point but it is clearly some strange business decision that this is not on PS4. It looks identical and in some ways worse than the PS4 pro version of Last of Us 2.

If this remake is 1440p 60 FPS on PS5 its pretty obvious that there should and could be a 1440p 30 FPS ps4 pro version.

Game is genuinely incredible so it's fine, but its not like this is pushing the PS5 at all.

There is no doubt in my mind that there is a PS4 version. They will likely reveal it close to launch or like you said its a business decision to keep PS5 consumers happy. I think porting this to PC 'shortly after' is likely their way of making up the lost PS4 sales.

I think if this was a real PS5 only title, they wouldve targeted a far higher graphical fidelity. But it is what it is. There is still hope that they enhance the A.I, animation and improve exploration and level design. All things mentioned by Neil on stage. I hope that means we get the original PS4 Pro version that we saw at E3 2018 with higher quality lighting, way better motion matching animations, and enemy A.I. Maybe not developing the PS4 version for Jaguar CPUs lets them push the A.I and Motion Matching fidelity a lot more. I also dont know why Neil would bring up improved exploration if they werent adding more areas. The PS4 had a couple of really large open world areas that could make their way here in some form.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Rebuilt from the ground up using technology and assets created for PS4 game.

Great business decision!

I am not exactly sure why ND is sticking with 1440p 60 fps here. They did that with Uncharted remasters and also kept TLOU2's BC patch at 1440p.

1440p is extremely disappointing.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Rebuilt from the ground up using technology and assets created for PS4 game.

Great business decision!

It still looks great. Great looking, great business!

1440p is extremely disappointing.

And nobody will know the wiser without 800 go zooooom

I thought native 4K was a "waste of resources" with all the reconstruction techniques, DLSS and all that bees knees!?

 

[killatopak]

I actually think the goal is to release alongside the live action series.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

I don't see where the fire for the war is coming from. I mean, people who are Druckman stans can deal with the fact that not everyone is gonna like ND's current gen business practices, or that some people felt they got burned with Part II so they aren't invested anymore, and some people don't like the art direction and the subtle alterations to character models and ambience.

People who hated Part II can realize that their opinion isn't the be all end all and some people (a large amount, apparently) found something substantial to chew on and are along for the ride. That people who want a more consistent or modern connection to Part II, or just something to do with their PS5 that isn't BC, have something to fuck with.

I mean, I'm on the "we didn't really need this," end, but if you think we did, then fuck, we've just discovered individualized autonomy!

 

[mckmas8808]

There's no way this shouldn't have a ps4 version but I feel that Sony probably thought we have to have one ps5 exclusive game in 2022 as we don't have one so we will just cull the ps4 version and focus on the ps5 release.

Or just get used to the fact that next-gen is now HERE! PS4 and Xbox One will be consoles of the past. Get use to it.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

It still looks great. Great looking, great business!

Yes, it does look great! It just doesn't look like a PS5 exclusive.

I'm happy it got remade. Will play it with my daughter in few years (when she's older).

I actually think the goal is to release alongside the live action series.

It seems like this was their main ambition. Good for them.

 

[Swift_Star]

Never mind, there actually are comparison shots. Looks like they recreated TLOU 1 in TLOU 2 engine and called it a day. Naughty Dog used to push the hardware to its limits. Now they just want to push this game before the show drops. No bueno.

What exactly did you expect? Those are the same characters and the same locales. Did you expect them to make this remake a cel shading anime artstyle? Really, some you try really hard to paint this as something bad. Can’t you be happy for once in your life?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yes, it does look great! It just doesn't look like a PS5 exclusive.

But it is... for now.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Or just get used to the fact that next-gen is now HERE! PS4 and Xbox One will be consoles of the past. Get use to it.

True, I got no problem with that.

just seems strange that even God Of War is cross gen and horizon etc but Sony arent going to let their huge PS4 fan base pick this up to go with their copy of Part 2. Seems strange to me. Like there is no technical reason this shouldnt be on PS4...everyone can clearly see that.

But, Jim doesn't really make sense i suppose.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

What exactly did you expect? Those are the same characters and the same locales. Did you expect them to make this remake a cel shading anime artstyle? Really, some you try really hard to paint this as something bad. Can’t you be happy for once in your life?

I guess people expected generational leap with games that are exclusive to next generation. Not more of the same simply because it looked great on last gen.

I thought native 4K was a "waste of resources" with all the reconstruction techniques, DLSS and all that bees knees!?

I wish this game supported DLSS. DLSS is the shit.

But it is... for now.

I completely forgot that this is coming to PC "shortly thereafter". Well, there's hope for DLSS after all!

 

[mckmas8808]

Not concerned, just disappointed. They can give whatever bullshit explanation they want. It was done this way because it was fast and cheap.

You are one sad gamer, man. You are this "disappointed" about a Remake, that clearly looks and plays better than the original version. Wow!

 

[mejin]

So, the game launches in september and have one of the best visuals till now.

ND is really good.

 

[MasterCornholio]

You are one sad gamer, man. You are this "disappointed" about a Remake, that clearly looks and plays better than the original version. Wow!

But that's the point of a remake.

 

[mckmas8808]

True, I got no problem with that.

just seems strange that even God Of War is cross gen and horizon etc but Sony arent going to let their huge PS4 fan base pick this up to go with their copy of Part 2. Seems strange to me. Like there is no technical reason this shouldnt be on PS4...everyone can clearly see that.

But, Jim doesn't really make sense i suppose.

I personally wished that they would have turned cross-gen games off with GT7 and God of War. So I'm super happy they are at least doing it now with TLOU-Remake. No need to spend an extra dollar developing for that system. It's time to move on........even if it could have ran at an inconsistent 30 fps.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

You are one sad gamer, man. You are this "disappointed" about a Remake, that clearly looks and plays better than the original version. Wow!

I'm so sad that in my previous post I've said that I'm happy.

I'm happy it got remade. Will play it with my daughter in few years (when she's older).

I personally wished that they would have turned cross-gen games off with GT7 and God of War. So I'm super happy they are at least doing it now with TLOU-Remake. No need to spend an extra dollar developing for that system. It's time to move on........even if it could have ran at an inconsistent 30 fps.

If TLOU2 can run perfectly fine on PS4 then TLOU1 would run perfectly fine as well. Same engine, same asset quality + first game is smaller in size and scope. It's not a technical limitation, it's a business decision.

 

[mckmas8808]

If TLOU2 can run perfectly fine on PS4 then TLOU1 would run perfectly fine as well. Same engine, same asset quality + first game is smaller in size and scope. It's not a technical limitation, it's a business decision.

Which is 100% fine! It's time to MOVE ON! The PS4 was released 9 whole years ago. If they only wanted a 60fps version of this remake, then the PS5 was the only option. Oh and PC of course.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

Part 2 at 60 still looks better than most next gen games I'd rather naughty dog put all of its resources in a new game we haven't seen yet, which apparently have been in development for 2 years so I highly doubt this is their defacto next-gen engine. I waited all those years and finally just played the remaster for the first time in 2020 now I wish I waited lol oh well this remake looks amazing can't wait.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Which is 100% fine! It's time to MOVE ON! The PS4 was released 9 whole years ago. If they only wanted a 60fps version of this remake, then the PS5 was the only option. Oh and PC of course.

It's fine. They just should make it look like something only possible on PS5 (outside of framerate). Then it would be fantastic.

1440p is head scratching in this situation. TLOU2 looks too soft on 4k TV when playing on PS5. Pump those number up, ND!

 

[DeepEnigma]

I wish this game supported DLSS. DLSS is the shit.

If the IQ is any bit as good as DeS Remake, then you won't know the wiser until that 800x goes zoooooooom.

Hell, even that zoom was hard to tell for DeS.

 

[kyliethicc]

 

[kyliethicc]

I just appreciate that Ellie now looks like a younger version of herself from Part 2.

I figured they would redo the character models., seeing it now really highlights it.

I tried to tell people - they showed us the remake in the prologue of Part 2 back in 2020.

Both parts use the same assets, same character models, etc. So they feel like 1 cohesive story.

 

[Bernardougf]

You seem concerned, when they have said as much as them wanting cohesion between the two so it's like one big seamless story. Continuity between the two.

This is by design. Their next IP is where we will see their PS5 central efforts, me thinks.

Yeah for this to be true they would have to change some big parts of the history of two ... oooor.. one ... lets wait and see .. because cohesion its not what I would call the history transition between the two.. but people dont mind this so I would expect that they wouldn't mind changes in grafx either

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yeah for this to be true they would have to change some big parts of the history of two ... oooor.. one ... lets wait and see .. because cohesion its not what I would call the history transition between the two.. but people dont mind this so I would expect that they wouldn't mind changes in grafx either

Nah, just tweak emotional expressions and maybe a nod to the doc having agency.

Like, imagine if the doc dropped the line while you're holding him at gunpoint, "No, please! I have a daughter!"

 

[Sosokrates]

Maybe this game isn't for you but it will be for a lot of people.

Its pretty much guaranteed to do huge numbers in sales since it's such a beloved classic as well as it giving off those nostalgia vibes. It's a smart move.

Imagine they are improving their engine all the time. DF mentioned that there is possibly GI involved now.

The ironic thing is the casual gamers who might want to play TLOU because of the TV show will probably just get a PS4 and tlou remastered because its cheaper and they are bot that bothered by visuals. The type of gamers this remake appeals too have probably already played tlou twice.

I just dont think doing a tlou remake was a good call from sony.
If naughty wanted some experience with the PS5 hardware they should of done some short TLOU2 spin off.

 

[RoadHazard]

Huge improvement, the remaster looks like shit in comparison.

On the other hand, this doesn't really look any better than TLoU2. Could definitely run on PS4 at 30fps. But that game still looks amazing, so it's alright.

 

[sendit]

They need to release gameplay footage asap

Looks the same to me.

 

[ChiefDada]

Man, it looks like those who share similar views as me are labeled grumpy or "concerned", which is unfortunate . What's so terrible about expecting a PS5 remake from Naughty Dog to eclipse what has been accomplished in TLOU2 in a significant manner? We have these expectations not to dunk on Playstation, but because we know how technically proficient Naughty Dog is and how much of a hardware leap the PS5 is over PS4. As great as Horizon Forbidden West is, I didn't expect it to be more impressive than this TLOU remake due to it's cross gen nature, yet here we are. I expect Ragnarok to be more impressive as well if it turns out this reveal trailer is the extent of all the PS5 enhancements. And it doesn't even make business sense as they would make tons more money releasing a PS4 version alongside PS5 remake, especially considering the extended cross gen period caused by covid. Everything about this is so strange based on what has been revealed so far.

 

[SlimySnake]

1440p is extremely disappointing.

Hey, the uncharted remaster had a 30 fps native 4k version. So did the Demon Souls remake. If we harass them enough, we might even get a 40 fps vrr patch.

Thank god for the PC version. I am running the RE2 Ray tracing update at native 4k 70-80 fps with very rare drops to 60 fps at max RT settings while the PS5 is really struggling at a far lower resolution and RT effects. It's time to bring out those mid gen refreshes, MidGenRefresh.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Hey, the uncharted remaster had a 30 fps native 4k version. So did the Demon Souls remake. If we harass them enough, we might even get a 40 fps vrr patch.

Thank god for the PC version. I am running the RE2 Ray tracing update at native 4k 70-80 fps with very rare drops to 60 fps at max RT settings while the PS5 is really struggling at a far lower resolution and RT effects. It's time to bring out those mid gen refreshes, MidGenRefresh.

Midgen refresh after 2 years already? Oof!

 

[Swift_Star]

The ironic thing is the casual gamers who might want to play TLOU because of the TV show will probably just get a PS4 and tlou remastered because its cheaper and they are bot that bothered by visuals. The type of gamers this remake appeals too have probably already played tlou twice.

I just dont think doing a tlou remake was a good call from sony.
If naughty wanted some experience with the PS5 hardware they should of done some short TLOU2 spin off.

Nah They won’t, specially the ones with ps5 consoles. This will be the marketed and bundled game in the coming future and the remastered one will be forgotten by Sony themselves. Not a chance ps5 users will play the ps4 game instead of the ps5 one.

 

[SlimySnake]

Midgen refresh after 2 years already? Oof!

I told you all that tflops matter. Now we are seeing 1080p Matrix next gen demos and native 4k 30 fps cross gen games. 10 was never going to be enough. Shouldve gone with 52 CUs at 2.0 Ghz and 14 tflops. RIP Tommy Fisher.

 

[Putonahappyface]

The footage looks very good but not enough for me to replay the game after completing the remaster. People that haven't played TLOU before are in for a treat if this is there first playthrough.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I told you all that tflops matter. Now we are seeing 1080p Matrix next gen demos and native 4k 30 fps cross gen games. 10 was never going to be enough. Shouldve gone with 52 CUs at 2.0 Ghz and 14 tflops. RIP Tommy Fisher.

 

[IDWhite]

I am not exactly sure why ND is sticking with 1440p 60 fps here. They did that with Uncharted remasters and also kept TLOU2's BC patch at 1440p.

If the 4.2 tflops PS4 Pro can do 1440p 30 fps the the PS5 with its 10.2 RDNA 2.0 Tflops and a MASSIVE leap in CPU should be able to do way more than 1440p 60 fps. With IPC gains over Polaris, we are looking at almost 13 tflops or 3x more GPU power than the PS4 Pro. Maybe not enough for 1800p 60 fps, but surely they are leaving a lot of performance on the table by sticking with 1440p. Kojima was able to take a checkerboard 4k 30 fps PS4 Pro game to full native 4k 60 fps doubling both the pixels and the framerate, and while it did drop during cutscenes and boss fights, the open world was a locked 60 fps even at native 4k. The PS5 is extremely powerful and should be getting utilized better.

Besides, i wouldve expected them to have optimized the PS4 engine by now. Especially since they are supposedly making this for PS5 only. It's been 2 years and still no engine improvements to eek out more performance? It's not like the character models and assets are an upgrade over TLOU2. They look virtually identical according to footage in this video so where is this extra PS5 power going?

GPU, CPU , Tempest compute performance and I/O hardware possibilities are nothing without the memory bandwidth, and Ps5 with it´s 448 GB/s config has a clear deficit.

The development probably start before they finished the upgrade of the engine for part 2, so basically is a Ps4 engine with some adjustments running with brute force on Ps5 hardware.

Eventually they will make a better use of the hardware over time, but they need a engine completely adapted to the Ps5 to really take advantage of all of those specifics tecnologies, and that will take much more time.

 

[ParaSeoul]

Looks the same to me.

 

[SlimySnake]

GPU, CPU , Tempest compute performance and I/O hardware possibilities are nothing without the memory bandwidth, and Ps5 with it´s 448 GB/s config has a clear deficit.

The development probably start before they finished the upgrade of the engine for part 2, so basically is a Ps4 engine with some adjustments running with brute force on Ps5 hardware.

Eventually they will make a better use of the hardware over time, but they need a engine completely adapted to the Ps5 to really take advantage of all of those specifics tecnologies, and that will take much more time.

Yep. The bandwidth being the bottleneck is something ive brought up before, but I then look at the 6600xt which is 10.7 tflops and has just 256 GBps of vram bandwidth and is able to run games like Guardians of the Galaxy way better than the PS4 in its performance mode. I know the CPU has access to the DDR4 system ram but last gen games dont really tax the CPU bandwidth much.

And yes, Jason said that the game started development at around 2018 as a side project for a support studio that just wanted to bring TLOU up to date with TLOU2's engine. I had just hoped that once ND took over the project in 2020, they wouldve increased the scope if not improved the engine to take full advantage of the PS5 IO since they are using this remake as a stepping stone to learn the PS5 architecture. I wouldve expected those architectural performance gains two years into the gen. Right now, both TLOU2's BC patch and this next gen PS5 only sku are running at the same resolution and framerate. Let's hope they are using the remaining horsepower improving the visual quality beyond what we saw in TLOU2. Just give me E3 2018 graphics and I will be happy.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yep. The bandwidth being the bottleneck is something ive brought up before

I think you misread what he wrote.

 

[Sosokrates]

Nah They won’t, specially the ones with ps5 consoles. This will be the marketed and bundled game in the coming future and the remastered one will be forgotten by Sony themselves. Not a chance ps5 users will play the ps4 game instead of the ps5 one.

Ps5 owners have likely already played tlou. Tlou has been available for years, its not like gta online which is a game as a service.
The few casuals who may want to play the original game after watching the tv show who decide to buy a PS5 and tlou remake is going to be tiny.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Ps5 owners have likely already played tlou. Tlou has been available for years, its not like gta online which is a game as a service.
The few casuals who may want to play the original game after watching the tv show who decide to buy a PS5 and tlou remake is going to be tiny.

It's almost as if people don't age, and new people aren't born every gen and come into age.

 

[Swift_Star]

Ps5 owners have likely already played tlou. Tlou has been available for years, its not like gta online which is a game as a service.
The few casuals who may want to play the original game after watching the tv show who decide to buy a PS5 and tlou remake is going to be tiny.

Nah, dude, you're reaching. There's no way people will play the ps4 version with outdated graphics on the ps5. This makes no sense at all and you know this.
The new version supports everything ps5, it's the shiny new thing and, again, the game will be bundled with the ps5 going forward. I know you're really trying hard because we know who you are, but you're just plainly...

This remake will not flop regardless the amount of CONCERN being displayed on GAF.