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[ColonelColon]

2 GB video RAM, 2-4 GB of system RAM.

My PC already has more.

I don't see what the fuss is over lots of system RAM. Email checker PCs for $400 come with 6-8 GB. Consoles don't use the same RAM and it's uber expensive? Fire your supplier and engineer a damn solution. Not sure why $100 in COGs is suddenly not worth designing around when you're planning on making 50 million units, lol.

You don't even need 2 GB to check email and browse the internet.

 

[Yoboman]

If any console deviates from the flight plan next gen it is going to cause industry wide panic. The next Sony and MS consoles need to be on par with one another otherwise support is going to get split very uncomfortably one way or the other.

Maybe.

I fully expect the maximum price to be roughly $400 with the aim for day one profits though.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I fully support Sony and MS putting out next gen consoles at 1000w TPD.

 

[teh_pwn]

You don't even need 2 GB to check email and browse the internet.

It's preferable to have at least 3 GB of RAM with Vista and 7, because they preload a ton of commonly used applications into memory so that they load faster at launch.

The point is that system RAM is dirt fucking cheap. To create a thread complaining about the COGS of system RAM is odd when you have email checker machines today with more than 4 GB of RAM. Engineer a damn solution.

I fully support Sony and MS putting out next gen consoles at 1000w TPD.

A system that is gimped in RAM and consequently constantly is load shit from disc only to remove it from memory is going to use way more power than a couple of extra GB of RAM.

 

[G Rom]

That's not true, actually. It was a fairly weak CPU by 2005 standards, not comparable to Intel's/AMD's best models at all.

Wait, what ? Xenon a weak CPU ? Next thing you'll tell me will be that every netbook in 2006 had a Cell equivalent !
When I'm talking about consumer level CPU, I'm talking about Pentium, not Xeon or Itanium...
Please, show me a Pentium available in 2005 which was faster and more advanced than Xenon. The 999$ top of the line at Intel was a 2C/4T Pentium at the time...

Pie chart

I think that this pie chart might not be a good indication for next-gen though. A lot of things are different now.
IMO, it's very likely that they'll try to get the GPU and CPU on the same die right from the start. They could save a lot of money by doing that.
We always assumed that if Microsoft go the Fusion route, they will take the whole CPU+GPU package but maybe they'll just get a modified GPU which could be put on an IBM CPU die. The 360 Slim showed us that getting a GPU and a CPU originating from two different company on the same die wasn't a problem.
Beside, they'll probably want to get the smallest chip possible at release because future die shrinking (16 nm and 11nm) could prove to be more difficult, GlobalFoundries had their share of problems with 28nm IIRC.

The cost of memory won't be the same too as GDDR3 was rather new in 2005 and clearly wasn't as widespread as GDDR5 is now, let alone in 2012/2013.
One of the reason why I think 4 GB is more likely than 8 GB is because there will be more expensive things bundled with the Xbox 720/PS4 compared to the Xbox 360/PS3. Kinect and Move will probably be standard along side a traditional controller. Ethernet and composites cables will most likely be on their way out to make place for an HDMI cable and integrated Wifi. All of those things will be additional costs, some of which won't be reduced as easily as the CPU+GPU cost IMO.



Oh and it can't be said enough in this thread, you can't compare DDR3 with GDDR5/XDR2. The later are much faster and more expensive to produce than the former otherwise we would all be rolling with 4 GB of GDDR5/XDR2 as system memory...

 

[onQ123]

So Crytek wants consoles to cost 800$ or something, so console market dies and PC conquers the gaming world without resistance....no more peasant gamers!!

And PC fans felt betrayed by Crytek, they're working from inside to destroy the consoles!!

it would be the PC gamers that get left behind because console games would be made from the ground up to take advantage of the 8GB of ram while PC games would still be made to try to work for people with less than 2GB just so it can sell to people with low range PC's also.

if Consoles have 8GB of ram your PC is going to need like 16 or more GB to compete because no one is going to make a game for the PC that needs 16GB to play because they know most people will still have PC's with less than 4GB.


if I'm wrong show show me a game on PC that looks & run better than Uncharted 2 , God of War 3 , Crysis 2, GT5 on a PC with less than 1GB of ram total?

that's 2X the total ram of the PS3


in other words Crytek want the Consoles to have 8GB of ram because it's the only way they can make games that take advantage of it & make any money.

 

[BoboBrazil]

8gb of memory in a console would be awesome. PC games are still dumbed down to be played on every day computers too, so of course they wouldn't use the full amount of ram. I want a big leap in graphics and load times, especially if we are only going to get new consoles every 8-10 years instead of every 5 like in the past.

 

[dr_rus]

Historically new consoles had as much RAM as high end PC videocards released around the same timeframe. We're just passing from 1-1.5 GB to 2-3 GB on videocards. In two years we'll probably get to 4-6. But 8 does sound unlikely.

 

[RaijinFY]

Historically new consoles had as much RAM as high end PC videocards released around the same timeframe. We're just passing from 1-1.5 GB to 2-3 GB on videocards. In two years we'll probably get to 4-6. But 8 does sound unlikely.

Finally, someone who gets it.

One more time:

Historically new consoles had as much RAM as high end PC videocards released around the same timeframe.

One more time again:

Historically new consoles had as much RAM as high end PC videocards released around the same timeframe.

Last time:

Historically new consoles had as much RAM as high end PC videocards released around the same timeframe.

 

[Cwarrior]

If this helps eliminate the disgusting load times, texture pop ups and low frame rate we had to live through this gen, am all for it.

I say "BRING ON $599 MACHINE"

 

[OverHeat]

If this helps eliminate the disgusting load times, texture pop ups and low frame rate we had to live through this gen, am all for it.

I say "BRING ON $599 MACHINE"

thumb up!

 

[unomas]

If this helps eliminate the disgusting load times, texture pop ups and low frame rate we had to live through this gen, am all for it.

I say "BRING ON $599 MACHINE"

No thanks.

 

[Darko]

I want to fuck a supermodel.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

If this helps eliminate the disgusting load times, texture pop ups and low frame rate we had to live through this gen, am all for it.

I say "BRING ON $599 MACHINE"

As I've already said in the thread, the last company that were daft enough to do this wiped out all the profits they made on their preceeding consoles for the last ten years.

No one is going to be apeshit insane enough to try it again.

Note that PCs are considerably more powerful than current generation consoles, yet the same problems still exist in PC gaming. The technical problems you cite are down to a lack programming and testing, and a dependency on releasing glitchy games and patching later, rather than limitations imposed by insufficiently powerful hardware.

I want to fuck a supermodel.

This is more likely to happen, than 8GB memory being present in the next wave of consoles.

 

[yurinka]

They want 8GB of RAM in next gen consoles?
I want to make a threesome with Scarlet Johanson and Iga Wyrwal, something more realistic.

 

[Jonm1010]

At this point in my life I'm fine with a $599 machine. However because of what behavioral economists refer to as price expectation people have it in their mind that a console should only cost X amount of dollars due to expectations set by historical precedent.

Getting people to change that expectation is hard. PS3 proved that. Even if brand new console X would be twice as powerful as console Y(I'm not talking ps3/360 here, just a hypothetical) but console X costs 100 more, and that extra 100 goes over peoples historical expectations, they will shun it.

 

[Redrum_82]

The first Xbox had 64MB and the X360 has 512Mb.
4Gb seems the natural progression.

 

[plainr_]

If 8GB of ram can give us multitasking and save states I will cream my pants.

-In game video player with PIP
-In game video chat
-In game web browser
-In game recording

Wait, fuck this shit. I'm just setting myself up for disappointment.

 

[maxxpower]

Wtf when did Shibobi get banned?

 

[G Rom]

Next-gen can't be compared to the current gen IMO :

- Systems will most likely launch with CPU and GPU on the same die
- For the first time in a very long time, there probably won't be a new disc format/hardware introduced with a generation (BD XL is an evolution of BD)
- Consoles won't use high-end component as TDP of those have gone way above what's acceptable in a small box
- The amount of accessories bundled in will most likely be the biggest to date for a 399+ $/€ console
- GDDR5 is widespread and will be cheap by 2012/2013
- All consoles will have some sort of disk space (HDD or flash memory) to push even more DD

All in all, many things will be much cheaper compared to the launches of current gen but this will be compensated by the inclusion of Kinect/Move and flash memory/hdd in all consoles. Of course, that's if MS/Sony decide not to split the install base and get motion controllers in all households.

 

[Truespeed]

Regardless of the power of the CPU, GPU or the amount of memory that are in a console I think you'll always get to a point where developers start pushing the boundaries of what the console can sustain (and more quickly by mediocre developers). The lack of adherence to frame rate, HD screen resolution and memory budgets in this generation is just abysmal. Just look at all the games with screen tearing, sub 30 FPS performance and sub HD resolutions. Instead of asking for more memory and better GPU's how about we return to developing within the means of the console and not treating it like a PC.

 

[Deyvis]

I would love to see at least 4 gb so no one will argue that downgrade in graphics or playability was due to low memory.

 

[Rolf NB]

I'm bracing myself for 2GB in the next generation of consoles. 4GB would already surprise me. 8GB would be incredible.

Maybe some odd numbers could pop up with split memory pools. Like 2GB general purpose RAM+1GB graphics memory. But that model doesn't seem to be what developers want (cf PS3) anyway. And of course it leads to higher costs, with multiple memory busses on board, more physical memory chips, more traces, more PCB layers.

One thing to keep in mind is that load times this gen are already terrible. If you had 16 times the memory and intended to make use of it under the same (already terrible) load times, you'd have to fill it 16x as fast. Which is ... optimistic.

Data transfer from the optical medium will probably only increase by 4~6 times. A 12x BD-ROM would sound every bit as much like a jet plane as a 12x DVD-ROM. And there won't be any new, denser optical medium to use by the start of next gen. Bububu hard drives, sure. But that means installations, which also take much too long already.

 

[Phonomezer]

- Systems will most likely launch with CPU and GPU on the same die

I'd say it's 100% certain for MS as they've already done this for the 360 Slim.

 

[infinityBCRT]

Give us 8gb so Shang Tsung can morph in real time to anyone!

Seriously though what I'm hoping for is a built in SSD drive (8-16gb) for caching to help alleviate streaming issues that we'll hit once games are making use of the full Bluray capacity and the larger texture sizes.

 

[Mrbob]

One thing I never understood is why they don't have any general purpose RAM just to offload some of the easier tasks to. Sony tried to do with this with the PS3, but IMO they fucked up the numbers so it made it appear the unified ram arch was a better idea. You wouldn't even really need that much. Just like well in now terms even a cheap 512 stick (if you could even get shit that low) to help offload all the menial tasks to the RAM, and then have the dedicated VRAM just you know be the VRAM.

Good call. Wouldn't mind seeing an XDR2 split with general purpose ram in PS4 but with much more ram of course. Cost might be an issue for XDR2 though.

Interested to see the PSP2 ram rumor to see if the numbers are correct. 512MB LDDR2 ram with 128MB vram so maybe this is the route they will go again with PS4.

 

[szaromir]

Wait, what ? Xenon a weak CPU ? Next thing you'll tell me will be that every netbook in 2006 had a Cell equivalent !
When I'm talking about consumer level CPU, I'm talking about Pentium, not Xeon or Itanium...
Please, show me a Pentium available in 2005 which was faster and more advanced than Xenon. The 999$ top of the line at Intel was a 2C/4T Pentium at the time...

I don't know, I remember a lot of whining about Xenon even back in 2005, how it doesn't compare to Intel/AMD processors, how it's OOO, how poor each PPC core actually is etc.

IMO, it's very likely that they'll try to get the GPU and CPU on the same die right from the start.

Not if they go the high end route, you just can't dissipate heat fast enough from gigantic chips.

 

[-viper-]

I'd be happy with 4GB.

4GB PC RAM costs £30 in the UK. I'm sure its actually far cheaper to manufacture.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I'd say it's 100% certain for MS as they've already done this for the 360 Slim.

That's because it was a redesign designed to run cooler and be less expensive. But as mentioned if you're going high end, integrated dies aren't an option right off the bat.

 

[jax (old)]

This thread, well, its really had pipqued my interest as to the successors to PS3/X360. I wonder if they'll go the route of the Nintendo's blue ocean and deliver a subpar underperforming cheapie...

in which instance, we'll get 1GB ram and a modicum of improvement over the current consoles w improved kinect/move bundled in.

Probably an off the shelf graphics (mid range/that year) + dual/quad core cpu + 1 gb ram.


THE HORROR.

 

[iNvid02]

I'd be happy with 4GB.

4GB PC RAM costs £30 in the UK. I'm sure its actually far cheaper to manufacture.

console ram is different/more expensive than regular pc ram for some reason, i think its the speed

 

[fernoca]

I'm sure that Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo will be more than happy if Crytek supplied them with really cheap 8GB-RAMs.

 

[Mr_Brit]

console ram is different/more expensive than regular pc ram for some reason, i think its the speed

Sony/MS will likely use either GDDR5 or XDR 2 or maybe something better comes along by then.

 

[Chaplain]

- For the first time in a very long time, there probably won't be a new disc format/hardware introduced with a generation (BD XL is an evolution of BD)

You mean like this?

http://news.softpedia.com/news/100-...-ray-Disks-Revealed-by-Panasonic-193052.shtml

100 GB BDXL Rewritable Blu-ray Disks Revealed by Panasonic

Basically, through special layering techniques, a disk could come to have 100 GB or even 128 GB of storage space.

As for the disks themselves, they have, so far, only made it into the hands of a low number of PC owners. They should, eventually, be employed for larger PS3 games, but nothing of the sort has, so far, occurred.

 

[Rolf NB]

You mean like this?

That's a Blu-ray with more layers, and maybe slightly (20~30%) increased density per layer. It holds more data, but it doesn't have (notably) higher transfer speeds at the same rpms.

Which is unlike the DVD=>BD transition. Transfer speed at the same rpm increased by a factor of 8 or thereabouts.

 

[Phonomezer]

That's because it was a redesign designed to run cooler and be less expensive. But as mentioned if you're going high end, integrated dies aren't an option right off the bat.

I see, I see. Thanks.

 

[G Rom]

I'm bracing myself for 2GB in the next generation of consoles. 4GB would already surprise me. 8GB would be incredible.

Maybe some odd numbers could pop up with split memory pools. Like 2GB general purpose RAM+1GB graphics memory. But that model doesn't seem to be what developers want (cf PS3) anyway. And of course it leads to higher costs, with multiple memory busses on board, more physical memory chips, more traces, more PCB layers.

One thing to keep in mind is that load times this gen are already terrible. If you had 16 times the memory and intended to make use of it under the same (already terrible) load times, you'd have to fill it 16x as fast. Which is ... optimistic.

The pool of RAM will probably be unified (much cheaper and developers prefer that) which is why I find it hard to believe that any next-gen console will sport anything else than GDDR5. XDR2 is expensive as hell because of its rarity in consumer products.

Data transfer from the optical medium will probably only increase by 4~6 times. A 12x BD-ROM would sound every bit as much like a jet plane as a 12x DVD-ROM. And there won't be any new, denser optical medium to use by the start of next gen. Bububu hard drives, sure. But that means installations, which also take much too long already.

Even a theoretical increase of 3.5/4x would be quite a lot and as the Slim proved, if you want to, you can do a near silent 12x drive (compared to the jet engines of 2005).
Optical drive will always lag behind any bandwidth in the console anyway so manufacturers better put the fastest available at launch.

That's because it was a redesign designed to run cooler and be less expensive. But as mentioned if you're going high end, integrated dies aren't an option right off the bat.

Well, high end isn't an option anymore, that's why they could go for integrated dies right from the start.

You mean like this?

Yep. A BD XL drive could provide developers with a large range of capacities : 25 GB, 50 GB, 100 GB, 128 GB.
Heck, they could still keep the DVD around for next-gen XBLA compilations.

 

[Synless]

If this helps eliminate the disgusting load times, texture pop ups and low frame rate we had to live through this gen, am all for it.

I say "BRING ON $599 MACHINE"

I bought a system at that price once and wasn't disappointed with it and I'd do it again.

 

[Durante]

Integrating CPU and GPU on one die at the start is a problem in terms of heat, but only if they target performance similar to what they aimed for in previous gens compared to PC. I think the next generation consoles will be the weakest by far compared to contemporary PC tech.

(Which suits me well since I want to continue playing PC ports of console games at locked framerate and great image quality)

 

[RobertM]

I'd be happy with 4GB.

4GB PC RAM costs £30 in the UK. I'm sure its actually far cheaper to manufacture.

Consoles don't use off-the-shelf components, that price is moot.

I'm seriously baffled by the need of so much ram in computers, especially consoles. I got 2 gb of ram and that's plenty for me when only 70% is utilized anyways.

 

[TheExodu5]

Consoles don't use off-the-shelf components, that price is moot.

I'm seriously baffled by the need of so much ram in computers, especially consoles. I got 2 gb of ram and that's plenty for me when only 70% is utilized anyways.

High end games can use nearly 2GB on their own.

Just look at STALKER CoP Complete, that will use around 1.5-2.5GB on its own.

High end games also use over 1GB of VRAM, even at 1080p.

 

[Izayoi]

I'm seriously baffled by the need of so much ram in computers, especially consoles. I got 2 gb of ram and that's plenty for me when only 70% is utilized anyways.

Is the only application you use Notepad or something?

I've got 12GB of RAM and there's always at least 2GB in use right when I start my computer up, with MemClean running. I start running applications, open multiple tabs, and my use goes up to 5-6GB, turn on games and I start getting close to the maximum.

There's no reason for consoles to not have 8GB of RAM. Hell, I'd argue that 8GB is too little. RAM is cheap and there's no reason not to stuff as much as you can in.

 

[Red]

Is the only application you use Notepad or something?

I've got 12GB of RAM and there's always at least 2GB in use right when I start my computer up, with MemClean running. I start running applications, open multiple tabs, and my use goes up to 5-6GB, turn on games and I start getting close to the maximum.

There's no reason for consoles to not have 8GB of RAM. Hell, I'd argue that 8GB is too little. RAM is cheap and there's no reason not to stuff as much as you can in.

Are you running like ten games at a time or something

 

[TheExodu5]

Are you running like ten games at a time or something

Windows pre-fetches a ton of commonly used applications and keeps them in memory for faster boot times. If you have a lot of RAM, it acts as a big cache to speed up your system.

 

[FlyingTeacup]

well... just wait till e3, take wiiHD's ram (I doubt nintendo will announce) X 2, it'll be ps4/x720 ram.

 

[MNC]

It's nice to want things etc

 

[Red]

Windows pre-fetches a ton of commonly used applications and keeps them in memory for faster boot times. If you have a lot of RAM, it acts as a big cache to speed up your system.

I have 12 GB and unless I'm editing pictures or video it usually peaks at around 4GB while playing a game.

 

[TheExodu5]

I have 12 GB and unless I'm editing pictures or video it usually peaks at around 4GB while playing a game.

I have 8GB and my system RAM is staying at 4GB right now with nothing but FireFox, Steam, and Toki Tori open.

 

[Izayoi]

Are you running like ten games at a time or something

No. By "getting close" I mean 9GBish in use. I turned off my pagefile so my memory usage is a little higher than most. TERA uses a good 4GB of RAM, usually, so I'm closer to 10GB when I play that.

 

[dark10x]

I have 8GB and my system RAM is staying at 4GB right now with nothing but FireFox, Steam, and Toki Tori open.

That's odd. I have Steam, iTunes, Chrome, Picasa, and Excel open and I'm only using 2.86gb out of 8gb of ram.