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Final Fantasy VII 15th Anniversary

Nomura was a part of FF5 onwards.

It's ironic you rage on Nomura when the original FF7 WAS the one where his influence was most strongly felt and started "the Nomura era" as you put it.

And the new scene has Zack being shot right in his face, POV style. How much more "graphic" did you want it to be to fit with the point of the scene, which was to show his life flashing before his eyes?
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Yeah, the key word being "part" of it. He wasn't unleashed as the bigshot lead artist/director until sometime after The Spirits Within bankrupted Square and they merged with Enix. That's the video game company legend I heard, anyways.

I know that he did the character designs for FF7. He didn't direct the scenes. I prefer his older work to his newer, literally for its imperfections. Nice try, you seem like a man on a mission to dispel the common internet mythos concerning Tetsuya Nomura from frothing internet haters such as myself.

I didn't even know he was shot in the face, btw. All I saw was a cheesy yaoi scene him pushing Cloud's face into his chest in a moving display of affection, saying "you'll be my living legend." Sounds like you must have liked it. If he was shot in the face, why was that the last scene? Oh maybe because every scene Nomura directs must be graceful, beautiful, elegant, and feminine to the highest extreme. Do you remember how it went down in FF7, by comparison? But hey, maybe you're right -- he has nothing to do with things like that. Unless someone who works at S-E posts in, we'll never know how extensive the touch of Nomura is.
 
playoverwork said:
Yeah, the key word being "part" of it. He wasn't unleashed as the bigshot lead artist/director until sometime after The Spirits Within bankrupted Square and they merged with Enix. That's the video game company legend I heard, anyways.

I know that he did the character designs for FF7, etc. I prefer his older work to his newer, literally for its imperfections. Nice try, but I'm not phased yet by this pedantic attempt to deny how things have changed (for the worse, lol).

I didn't even know he was shot in the face -- all I saw was a cheesy yaoi scene him pushing Cloud's face into his chest in a moving display of affection, saying "you'll be my living legend." LOL Sounds like you must have liked it. If he was shot in the face, why was that the last scene? Oh maybe because every scene Nomura directs must be graceful, beautiful, elegant, and feminine to the highest extreme.
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Nomura didn't direct Crisis Core. He also hasn't worked on a mainstream FF in almost 10 years.

But don't let facts get in the way of your creepy homophobic hate for Nomura.
 
jaxword said:
Nomura didn't direct Crisis Core. He also hasn't worked on a mainstream FF in almost 10 years.

But don't let facts get in the way of your creepy homophobic hate for Nomura.
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Just stop. He's right about the horrible influence of Nomura and you're just trying to deflect attention away from what you can't argue against by splitting hairs about production credits that you know aren't relevant to the point.

You even had the GALL to equate Nomura's work on FF7 with the rest of what he's done since in a desperate grab for a "gotcha".
 
Final Fantasy threads. Ya gotta love 'em. :/

Onto the ACTUAL SUBJECT OF THE THREAD, I played FF VII for the first time in the summer of 2010, and looooved it. Sure, it hadn't aged as gracefully as I thought it would, but I loved it nonetheless. The Honeybee Inn scene in particular was all kinds of WTF. O_o

Nearly 100%ed it, but Ruby Weapon made me ragequit. >_>
 
LaserBuddha said:
Just stop. He's right about the horrible influence of Nomura and you're just trying to deflect attention away from what you can't argue against by splitting hairs about production credits that you know aren't relevant to the point.
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Blaming one guy for everything you dislike seems very petty and a bit obsessively creepy. It's not splitting hairs at all to point that out, nor is it 'deflecting' anything. I hardly think Nomura is perfect and, in fact, don't like his recent work, but this dedication to hating him is really quite unnerving.
 
The hate for Nomura is moronic. He has nothing to do with the modern games besides the odd character design. His name is slapped all over the PR and title screen because it's meaningful in Japan, that's all. The games he's had creative control in terms of game design are the KH games, the upcoming Versus XIII, and he was 'Creative Producer' on a couple of portable games such as TWEWY. In fact, his mainline input was at it's most with VII.

You hate modern Final Fantasy, that's fine, but it's not Nomura's fault.
 
Amazing, amazing, amazing game. Last time I finished it was back in 2002, since then I've started it at least 5 times but never got past Disc 1. I should get to it again sometime.
 
jaxword said:
While I understand what you're referring to with Cloud's warped Zack identity, there definitely is dialogue. Zack talks to Cloud the entire time they're on run together--this is in FF7, long before CC. The finale is done with no dialogue, true, but that's out of poignancy to make Zack's death more jarring--he dies without a word.

Also note that Zack giving a speech to Cloud does NOT ruin Cloud's identity theft--his mind is completely gone by that point anyways so he doesn't even remember the speech. Which fits FF7 just fine.

Think of Zack's final speech as not something he said to Cloud, but something he was saying to himself--he wanted to be a hero so badly, and he finally succeeded.
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Well, you'll agree with me that the little dialogue in the original is basically a monologue, since Cloud was kinda absent.

The indentity theft is still there, but the significance it's all gone, Cloud in CC ending, becomes Zack because he basically ask him to do it, Cloud recognizes Zack and his freindship and accepts, the end result might be the same, with Cloud forgiving the speech and all, but it undermines the original: Cloud steals Zack indentity as a way to overcome his weakness, to escape from it, not to fullfill Zack wishes.

And I think that's what defines Cloud for more that half of the game.

I agree that it has to due with giving Zack character a more significant meaning and certainly the game succceded CC Zack is a great character, but for me the original scene ibeing more subtle, cold and all makes it more sad than the CC ending cheap drama. It was better directed.

PD: I also think CC is a way better effort than XIII in terms of writing for the most part.


Thaedolus said:
In a way, I think it all comes back to the show vs. tell issue that writers run in to. A lot of what makes FFVII awesome is that the technology simply wasn't there to bash us over the head with melodrama and endless exposition. Same with FFVI and earlier games in the series. Because of that, plenty is left to the imagination, and it's a better experience because of it. I think it's why I still connect with those games much more strongly than I did with something like FFXIII, which is just nauseating with it's anime-inspired cutscenes. Personally I'm much more appreciative of the minimalist kind of storytelling. It's why Hemingway and Cormac McCarthy are my favorite authors, and a game like Super Metroid that has nothing written out after the introduction can resonate years later.
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I agree partially, I mean in the orginal they could add all that dialogue and all, but I think in the end is how past FF were more subtle telling you the story due to technology limitations or due to better directing, but I also think past FF (at least some of them) got better wrtting that recent ones, excluding some exceptions.
 
jaxword said:
Blaming one guy for everything you dislike seems very petty and a bit obsessively creepy. It's not splitting hairs at all to point that out, nor is it 'deflecting' anything. I hardly think Nomura is perfect and, in fact, don't like his recent work, but this dedication to hating him is really quite unnerving.
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If he is the guiding influence behind the stylistic shift in Square-Enix games, and one hates that stylistic shift, then yeah it's completely appropriate. It is on topic. Square-Enix games are now about style-over-substance and juvenile melodrama, and I certainly see his fingerprint on that.

Trying to label it as "creepy" is right up there with "you hate him so passionately you must secretly love him" as far as the irrelevant conclusion fallacy goes.
 
Ferrio said:
One of the stupid moves by square to hide a very important scene.
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i dont know, when the game was released it wasn't a crucial scene. its only important now because of cc.

and i like the original scene more too. the silence is much better than cloud crying his eyes out.
 
I fucking adore that it's a hidden scene. VII strived for me - and I'm seeing for others, also - in delivering a sense of unknown history for its world, one that wasn't *terribly* easy to figure out without being forced to fully explore it.
 
Natetan said:
i dont know, when the game was released it wasn't a crucial scene. its only important now because of cc.

and i like the original scene more too. the silence is much better than cloud crying his eyes out.
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When the game was released that scene didn't even exist. Nojima wrote it as a bonus for the Western versions in order to fix a minor loose end.
 
Is there a site which have the backgrounds for all the areas? Trying to look for a crystal clear one of that part in Midgar with the crane (which doesn't do anything). Right before the playground. I almost found some, but was a MU link lol.
 
LaserBuddha said:
If he is the guiding influence behind the stylistic shift in Square-Enix games, and one hates that stylistic shift, then yeah it's completely appropriate. It is on topic. Square-Enix games are now about style-over-substance and juvenile melodrama, and I certainly see his fingerprint on that.

Trying to label it as "creepy" is right up there with "you hate him so passionately you must secretly love him" as far as the irrelevant conclusion fallacy goes.
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The guy you should be blaming is Toriyama. Most of Nomura's FF involvement is from what many consider Square's golden age (FFVI-VIII).
 
One of my favorite scene is the epic escape from Midgar. Also, the 1v1 fight with you know who at the end. Too bad its really short. I can't believe it's already been 15 years.
 
SOLDIER said:
RPtnG.jpg


Stuff like this still bothers me.
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It bothers you enough to support retcons/revisionist history? I agree its stupid that Tifa's chest is what many people remember about her the most but thems the breaks. FFVII had women of all shapes and sizes... its called variety. I can't accept the Tifa of Advent Children and beyond because Square felt like they had to make up for some "mistake" in her original character design. Accepting that is letting the pervs and revisionists win -.-
 
Skilletor said:
Seems to me like most of the people who hate Nomura don't actually know what his involvement is in the games they dislike.
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Completely correct. Especially as people actually get ANGRY (YOU'RE SPLITTING HAIRS) when you tell them about what Nomura really did.

He doesn't DO anything FF anymore. FF12 alone should prove that--it had nothing related to his designs. FF13 was Toriyama's child--rage out on him if you want to hate the "new" FF.


I wonder if the Nomura haters realize that FF7's design was a joint work between Sakaguchi, Nomura and Kitase? Nojima was the writer but it was their directing and designing.
 
Nomura had a significant influence on the story of 7, along with the direction of how combat looked with the moving 3D camera. He was more involved with 7 than any of the others, till Versus at least.
 
No one is denying Nomura's influence in VII - what we are arguing however, is his uptake in creative control since then and how that has proven with every single project he's done having free rein, to be on the side of quality leaning to shit.
 
The games he has 'free rein' on are Kingdom Hearts, not Final Fantasy.

He did some work on battle direction in 8 along with character designs, he did just character designs in 10/10-2, and he did only the main cast's designs in 13, and just a couple of faces in 13-2.

Basically, practically nothing in modern Final Fantasies, outside of Versus which he's heading.
 
anaron said:
No one is denying Nomura's influence in VII - what we are arguing however, is his uptake in creative control since then and how that has proven with every single project he's done having free rein, to be on the side of quality leaning to shit.
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Nomura has consistently put out games I enjoy, so I don't agree with that at all.

KH Series and FF Dissidia are amazing. BbS is awesome, 3D looks to follow suit. If he had anything at all to do with TWEWY, then he's in part responsible for the best thing Square has put out in a decade.

What games are you talking about?
 
anaron said:
No one is denying Nomura's influence in VII - what we are arguing however, is his uptake in creative control since then and how that has proven with every single project he's done having free rein, to be on the side of quality leaning to shit.
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He has "free reign" on the KH series, and I dislike those. The other project he was a director on was ACC, and that was a mix of bad story and good action. Nomura's an awful director. That being said, I think he has good ideas. He's like George Lucas--terrible writer, but comes up with amazing imagery, so he needs a good writer and director to temper that.

Now, he has INPUT on many S-E products, and those range in quality all over the place. For example, TWEWY was one of the best games on the DS, if not the best new IP in years. Dissidia was a ton of fun. Dirge was awful. Where's the praise/complaints from those?

Disagreeing with his style is perfectly valid, everyone's tastes are subjective. But you must admit that people throwing "Nomura makes it GAY and HOMOSEXUAL" tantrums really are embarrassingly immature.
 
Was my first RPG, I remember thinking how incredibly boring it was until I got to the Chocobo Farm though.

Still one of my all time games.

Breeding a gold (or was in black) chocobo to get Knights of the Round, awesome.
 
Whats the best way to play the game these days?

Original PSX discs
PSN Version
PC Ultimate Edition
Or Standard PC version with mods?

Inquiring minds want to know.
 
PSN probably. The PC versions are higher resolution for the 3D stuff, but the backgrounds are the same, so you get a more washy look. I like PSN, upscaling, no softening.
 
StuBurns said:
PSN probably. The PC versions are higher resolution for the 3D stuff, but the backgrounds are the same, so you get a more washy look. I like PSN, upscaling, no softening.
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Is it improved over the original discs? I have those already so if I can save money playing that way I would. I understand they touched up the dialog a little in some places but that isn't super important to me at this point.
 
Liquid_Bike said:
Is it improved over the original discs? I have those already so if I can save money playing that way I would. I understand they touched up the dialog a little in some places but that isn't super important to me at this point.
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The PC version had some typos fixed yeah, no content improvement beyond it running at a higher res, and it had some issues with video playback often. It's certainly fine though.

If you are in Europe however, VII is currently on sale on PSN so if you do fancy it, now's the time.
 
Liquid_Bike said:
Whats the best way to play the game these days?

Original PSX discs
PSN Version
PC Ultimate Edition
Or Standard PC version with mods?

Inquiring minds want to know.
Click to expand...

Like StuBurns said, PSN is a good way to go. However, keep in mind that the game was developed before the analog sticks made their way to the PlayStation, so you'll have to control with the D-pad. If you want to control with the stick, you'll need a controller like the Pelican Pro AfterGlow (which, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I bought just for playing some early PSX RPGs. Makes a huge difference).
 
Liquid_Bike said:
Is it improved over the original discs? I have those already so if I can save money playing that way I would. I understand they touched up the dialog a little in some places but that isn't super important to me at this point.
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The PC version has:
Better dialogue/fixed errors
Higher res
Possibly faster load times.

Weaker:
Music
Some reduced graphics on summons

One small bonus the pc has: there are several mods to improve the graphics and music if you want to put the effort in.
 
I can't tell if LaserBuddha is being sarcastic or not.

You are attacking a bogeyman. Nomura is not the "guiding" creative or stylistic influence in the mainstream series. He barely works on it. He has his own series (that I think is terrible), and he's directing Versus. Which isn't a real game.

How can you simultaneously freak out about Nomura's corruptive influence when the only examples of him ACTUALLY reinterpreting and coopting "classic" Final Fantasy art are so successful (Dissidia)?

I mean, this is on top of people ignoring XI, XII, XIV, and a ton of side games while looking at X-2 (Toriyama), XIII (Toriyama), and XIII-2 (Toriyama) as some grand body of work. It's not Nomura at work here. And, as a side point, I think the art and world design in these games is really superb. But that's something else.

Square-Enix games are now about style-over-substance and juvenile melodrama, and I certainly see his fingerprint on that.
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oh ok
 
Y2Kev said:
MIND BLOWN

Seriously, even 15 years later I still learn new things :o
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Here's another that I posted before, but I still think it bears repeating.

r3hrH.jpg


You can't really make out the ghosts of the Cetra in the Temple of the Ancients, but if you looked really closely:

Rtw1p.png


r70v4.png


Aerith's ancestors looked like old FF Black Mages. Great mythology touch.
 
In light of this anniversary, I'm making my third attempt to finally beat this game. First time I got to disc 3 and my save got corrupted.
2nd time I lost interest somewhere.
But this time I WILL beat this game!
 
I heard about the rocket stuff sometime ago, blew my mind too. I always try to point it out to other people who played the game. Didn't know about the black mage ancestors touch though, that's so sweet. This game...
 
jaxword said:
Aerith's ancestors looked like old FF Black Mages. Great mythology touch.
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Holy crap. Never thought about that! Thanks for posting it. Like Y2Kev said, I can't believe I'm still seeing new things about the game after 15 years (and who knows how many playthroughs).
 
jaxword said:
Here's another that I posted before, but I still think it bears repeating.

r3hrH.jpg


You can't really make out the ghosts of the Cetra in the Temple of the Ancients, but if you looked really closely:

Rtw1p.png


r70v4.png


Aerith's ancestors looked like old FF Black Mages. Great mythology touch.
Click to expand...

OMG!!!!

This is my all time Favorite game and I finished it like 10+ times, yet today I learned two new things about it...... how awesome can this be?

let me tell you.... it's LEGEND----DARY :D
 
Huh. Figured that's what the old man was years ago, but it's difficult to tell. The lost rocket is definitely something I never considered before... thought it was a fallen metal beam from one of Midgar's plates.
 
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